back to article Microsoft sez soz over Windows 10 'freebie' balls-up

Microsoft has attempted yet more damage control regarding Windows 10, after the software giant confused world+dog into thinking that anyone could qualify for a freebie version of its soon-to-be-released operating system. As The Register reported on Sunday, it had initially appeared as though users needed only to install a …

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  1. dogged

    I thought the "OS Chief" was Terry Myerson?

    Gabe Aul just runs the Insider programme.

  2. Oli 1

    so as a non-previewer, but with varying versions of windows 7, 8, & 8.1 - some OEM, some bought outright - i've clicked the flag to download Windows 10 on release - is this free or not?

    Genuinely no idea anymore.

    1. dogged

      Yes, it's free.

      1. tony72

        Hmm, somebody doesn't like concise, factual answers, from your two downvotes. Strange. Well, have an upvote from me, I like simple answers to simple questions.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          It's possible that...

          Simple answers are usually wrong.

          1. Brandon 2

            Re: It's possible that...

            Occam's razor be damned...

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: It's possible that...

            "Simple answers are usually wrong"

            This is either one of the wittiest comments I've seen or one of the daftest, I'm not sure which,

        2. dogged

          @tony 72 - I suspect somebody wants any indication that it's free or that MS aren't going to make you "subscribe" and charge you a yearly fee or that Satya Nadella isn't going to rape your dog to be downvoted because by definition "Micro$oft == TEH EEEEEEEBILZ" and therefore anything non-negative anyone posts must be made to look wrong.

          Or we just have a couple of complete bellends voting here.

          1. Chairo

            @dogged

            Curse you for putting the image of Nadella raping a dog in my mind!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      All this confusion is entirely focused on the Insider Preview builds, so just ignore it. If you're concerned about free upgrades from Win7/8.1, then nothing has changed - you can still screw your PC up if you want to.

  3. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

    And if I do upgrade my W7 system, but later decide that W10 is crap, can I go back to a W7 image, or will it then have been deactivated?

    1. dogged

      Unknown BUT.... MS have never yet deactivated a key that was used for an upgrade. Since XP, you've been able to reinstall (and reactivate) the original OS without issue.

      That's not to say they can't deactivate the key, just that they never have yet.

      1. Danny 14

        I would suspect you will be fine as im guessing w10 is an upgrade therefore you should have a licensed 7 or 8.1 to be able to upgrade to 10.

    2. Michael Habel

      And if I do upgrade my W7 system, but later decide that W10 is crap, can I go back to a W7 image, or will it then have been deactivated?

      How can they deactivate an, SLIC OEM Key? Its flagged between the BIOS, and MicroSoft's own certs. No Internet required... Now if your on one of them new-fangeled UEFI thingamajigs.. Then yeah MicroSoft probably, from what I gather has the power to fork you over... e.g. kill the key...

      1. dogged

        > Then yeah MicroSoft probably, from what I gather has the power to fork you over... e.g. kill the key...

        Where did you read that? Slashdot?

        It's not true.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Going back to 7

      Historically the evidence would suggest that going back to 7 or 8.1 would be OK. There is confusion here I think because, just as with the 'free for insiders' issue, questions have been asked and no-one has come back with a concise Yes/No answer.

      One thing that raises suspicions that the upgrade is irrevocable is the language used by Microsoft : the license is not transferred to Windows 10 but, rather is consumed by Windows 10.

      For what it's worth, I suspect that the transfer will be one way, or at least reversion will involve a bit of effort.

      That's a non-simple answer to a simple question. I hope that satisfies nmy downvoters above.

  4. Amorous Cowherder
    Facepalm

    "...MS was managing a "complex topic" as it juggles multiple versions of Windows, while changing the way it builds and deploys the OS..."

    Here's a tip that works well for OSX and most Linux desktop distros, release just 1 version! Job done. OK MS, I'll cut you some slack as you do have servers to sort out, just release just 2 versions, desktop and server. Simples!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      Would that be the single version that is, for example, Mint:

      Cinnamon 32bit

      Cinnamon 64bit

      Cinnamon No codecs 32 Bit

      Cinnamon No codecs 64 Bit

      Cinnamon OEM 32 bit

      Cinnamon OEM 64 bit

      MATE 32 Bit

      MATE 64 Bit

      MATE No codecs 32 Bit

      MATE No codecs 64 Bit

      MATE OEM 32 bit

      MATE OEM 64 bit

      KDE 32 Bit

      KDE 64 Bit

      Xfce 32 bit

      Xfce 64 bit

      So glad only one to chose from....

      Oh silly me I forgot LMDE variation of MINT.

      Cinnamon 32bit

      Cinnamon 64bit

      MATE 32 Bit

      MATE 64 Bit

      1. CAPS LOCK

        In Linux the DE (Desktop Environment) is an installable component, like a media player...

        ... but I'm guessing you knew that and were just trolling?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: In Linux the DE (Desktop Environment) is an installable component, like a media player...

          There are fourteen different downloads linked from

          http://www.linuxmint.com/download.php

          1. keithpeter Silver badge
            Windows

            Re: In Linux the DE (Desktop Environment) is an installable component, like a media player...

            "There are fourteen different downloads linked from

            http://www.linuxmint.com/download.php"

            True enough, and I take the point being made but these 14 downloads are essentially installing the same OS but with different default setups. They are provided as a convenience to the one who is installing, and to allow the one who is installing to demonstrate compliance with local laws (the no codec variants). It would in principle be possible to have a single Mint DVD (at least for the Ubuntu based install) and then ask the installer a series of questions about the software required (c. f. the Debian installer as run from the netinstall image).

            The various Widows versions have different functionality I understand, so that Windows 7 Home edition as supplied with my refurbished T61p under a scheme for refurbished computers will not be able to do everything that the College machines with their Windows 7 Enterprise (?) versions can do.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Which is exactly what they are trying to do with W10... they can't undo the proliferation of historic versions of 7 and 8 though.

    3. sisk

      The only Linux distros I know of that only release one version are....um....yeah, can't think of any. All of them I'm familiar with offer at least a 32 and 64 bit version, many of them have versions supporting various different (and sometimes obscure) architectures, and most of them have multiple versions with different default desktops.

  5. Mystic Megabyte
    Stop

    Iceberg ahead!

    This looks like it's going to be a titanic cock-up! Too many versions and too many hands on the wheel.

    1. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Iceberg ahead!

      Not so much "too many versions" as a more simpler matter of who gets the Windows 10 upgrade for free.

      Microsoft have been reasonably clear in who will get a free upgrade; it is for those who fall outside that where the confusion exists.

      I thought, as some analysts had also suggested, that this was Microsoft's way of getting everyone onto 10, even if not automatically entitled to that, or were currently running older, pirated or unauthorised versions of Windows. The hard part being to do that while still holding an official position which rejects piracy etc and avoiding complaints that those who stuck with older versions were getting an unfair, better deal than those who had upgraded.

      Whatever Microsoft chooses to do, someone will jump on that, find some reason to criticise, complain or fear-monger over, so it's a minefield for Microsoft at the best of times. No matter what Microsoft state, someone will read it other than it is, will read between the lines, and it then it goes on from there. With demands for completeness and clarity, with the degree of scrutiny Microsoft is placed under for every word, it is nigh on impossible for them to publish anything without that being pulled apart.

      1. Richard Jones 1
        WTF?

        Re: Iceberg ahead!

        If you do a clean install onto a machine it appears that it will not have a previous install there, which is how most 'DVD' preview installs will likely have been/will be made. How then will they be treated? Will you have to remove the preview than re-install windows 7/8.x before going forward again?

        Also, if a hard disk or other key part drops off its perch, how will you then recover the machine? I guess you could (a) keep an image or (b) keep the upgrade download, put 7/8.x back and re-run the upgrade. This does appear a slight(?) nightmare of confusion.

        1. dogged

          Re: Iceberg ahead!

          > Will you have to remove the preview than re-install windows 7/8.x before going forward again?

          No.

          They've already stated that you can install clean from ISOs and provide a Win7 or 8.x key.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Free for a year

    But what happens after that year? Is it just that for the first year, anyone can update for free and their copy is good forever. Or is it that if you update you stop getting some functionality after a year?

    1. hplasm
      Devil

      Re: Free for a year

      Then turns (back) into a pumpkin.

      1. Michael Habel

        Re: Free for a year

        Then turns (back) into a pumpkin.

        If by Pumpkin you meant Turd, then yeah!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Free for a year

      According to windows10update.com (see, even they don't say upgrade) it's the first option...

      If upgraded within the first 12 months following launch, the device will receive ongoing Windows 10 updates for free for the life of that device

      1. Boothy

        Re: Free for a year

        Quote: '...for free for the life of that device'.

        It's this bit that worries me, 'that device'.

        They don't seem to be taking into account those people who currently have full, rather than OEM licenses.

        Currently I can update, re-build, create a completely new PC, and then just reinstall my copy of Win 7 as often as I want, with no restrictions other than not being allowed to have it installed on another machine at the same time.

        If I lose that ability, by updating/upgrading to Win 10, then that's a bit of a deal breaker for me, might have to stick with Win 7 if that's the case, at least on my gaming rig.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Free for a year

        Or until they redefine "life", and they will.

    3. Test Man

      Re: Free for a year

      The free year is just a purchase promotion, not an installation time limit.

    4. KingStephen

      Re: Free for a year

      In the first year, you can upgrade for free and then your installation is good forever, with all updates etc.

      If you don't upgrade during the first year, then you'll need to purchase a new licence to get 10.

  7. This post has been deleted by its author

  8. excollier

    Who cares?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Joke

      Boots, apparently.

    2. Geoffrey W

      So, you don't care. <Shrug>. Who cares?

  9. tony72
    Facepalm

    Impressive!

    The Windows 10 giveaway should have been unmitigated good publicity for Microsoft. And yet, somehow, they manage to make a massive PR cock-up out of it. Impressive!

    I think this will blow over, and there should still be plenty of positive vibes from giving away 10 to all licensed 7 an 8.1 users. Assuming the final version of 10 isn't crap of course.

  10. Christopher Lane
    Joke

    Pricing Structure...

    Microsoft could always follow Steve Jobs pricing structure ( https://youtu.be/gtSDlSVDibA ). And then...wait for it...and then make it free anyway and rely on the income from their fantastic App Sto....oh wait...oh...awkward :-/

    1. Zot

      Re: Pricing Structure...

      They could also follow Apple and deny or just not say anything about any mistakes or problems.

      It should be free or at least cheap. It's only on OS after all.

    2. Michael Habel

      Re: Pricing Structure...

      Thank you for reminding me exactly why I need to avoid Windows OS-X like the Plague! Appstores! They're great on my Phablet... Not so much on my Desktop.... A basic Calculator Widget that'll be a $1.99(USD)! AMEX & VISA Accepted!

      1. dogged

        Re: Pricing Structure...

        > Thank you for reminding me exactly why I need to avoid Windows OS-X like the Plague!

        You're welcome. Now since you're going to avoid them, please stop spreading FUD on threads about them.

    3. jonathanb Silver badge

      Re: Pricing Structure...

      OSX is only supposed to work on Apple hardware, so they get the money that way. While you can by Microsoft branded computers, most people install windows on computers made by other companies, so Microsoft only get the the money from Windows licences.

  11. Steve McGuinness

    China

    Didn't MS also say that Pirated copies of Windows in China would qualify for free Windows 10 upgrades?

    Now I bet they're really confused.

    1. dogged

      Re: China

      Not quite.

      They said that Lenovo and/or some other Chinese OEMs would be upgrading qualifying users to genuine Win10. That's not exactly the same thing.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    too pedantic?

    "Windows 10, whether you get it on 29/7 or whether you got it in a preview form through the Windows Insider Program, is intended to be installed on Genuine Windows devices," ... First off, what's a genuine windows device? When did MS start selling PC hardware? And assuming this is meant to mean "devices with a genuine windows installation" surely, it should be "windows 10 upgrade"; or is windows 10 not meant for new devices, up/downgrades from linux etc?

    1. dogged

      Re: too pedantic?

      > When did MS start selling PC hardware?

      Since you've clearly been living in a cave, maybe you might want to Google "Surface Pro".

    2. AndrueC Silver badge
      Windows

      Re: too pedantic?

      When did MS start selling PC hardware?

      Over 30 years ago.

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