back to article Nobel bro-ffin: 'Girls in the lab fall in love with me ... then start crying'

A Nobel prize-winning scientist has apologised after he told sexist anecdotes at a conference for top women boffins in South Korea. Sir Tim Hunt, who has been a Fellow of the Royal Society since 1991, utterly misjudged his audience with these ridiculous comments: Let me tell you about my trouble with girls. Three things …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Thing is,

    in a lot of cases, he's bloody right!!!!

    1. BinkyTheHorse

      Re: Thing is,

      in the general case, he's being bloody stupid.

      In a sufficiently-sized same-sex lab, you'll very likely get the same effect. So, should we ban gays from science? Institute single-orientation labs as well? Or feed everyone bromium?

      I completely understand:

      - his need for optimization (hello, Reg reader here after all),

      - he didn't mean it completely seriously,

      - what he was trying to say.

      And I think this is being blow way out of proportion. Still, for a Nobel prize laureate, he shouldn't have said that.

    2. werdsmith Silver badge

      Re: Thing is,

      Lisa Nowak is not representative of all women.

    3. Martin Budden Silver badge
      WTF?

      Re: Thing is,

      Why does Tim Hunt think a lab is any different from any other workplace?

      I work in an office. There are women and there are men. We know to keep our working relationships professional. We know about the rules regarding appropriate (and inappropriate) behaviour. We all get along fine. Work gets done.

      What is so special about him that none of this applies to him???

  2. Zog_but_not_the_first
    Paris Hilton

    "...when they are in the lab; you fall in love with them, they fall in love with you...

    He says it like it's a bad thing.

    Paris in a crisp white lab coat, natch.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Why Paris

      Why Paris?

      Given a choice of Paris and an Eastern European molecular biology graduate I know what I will chose.

      Disclaimer - I have been living with that choice for 24 years and I do not regret it. We did institute a policy of "we never work in the same lab" though.

      1. Zog_but_not_the_first
        Facepalm

        Re: Why Paris

        Er no "Eastern European molecular biology graduate" icon?

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Why Paris

        When it comes to lab coats there's Kari Byron, then there's everyone else.

        1. Triggerfish

          Re: Why Paris

          True, but Winnie from the wonder years has turned out to be a rather lovely looking lady and has the maths cred as well.

          1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

            Re: Why Paris

            Winnie from the wonder years has turned out to be a rather lovely looking lady and has the maths cred as well

            Well, it's one paper she's known for, really, and co-authored with two other people. But it's a good paper on the statistical mechanics of magnetic domains and, AIUI, an important result in that area, even if it's only for the 2D case.

            (There are a few pieces online that explain the theorem without going into all the gritty details, and it's worth a look if you're at all curious about what goes on in the world of statistical mechanics, which is interesting in terms of scientific epistemology. Statistical mechanics is basically a way of saying, look, we can't model all this stuff individually - it's infeasible - so let's consider the average, aggregate behavior. Then work like this proves formal consequences of those approximate models. It's a much more sophisticated view of scientific thinking than grade-school explanations of "the scientific method" and other middlebrow glosses.)

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Why Paris

          Tamsin Greig ;)

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Elderly man puts foot in mouth news at 11."

    While he didn't exactly cover himself in glory with what he said I've certainly seen and heard worse inappropriate comments from people his age.

    For the record I am as much a Feminist as anyone, I truly believe Women should be treated as if they are equal.

    1. Tom_

      How about those old people, eh?

    2. Andy 73 Silver badge

      As IF they are equal?

      Very funny if deliberate. Very embarassing if not.

      1. Ralph B

        Re: As IF they are equal?

        Almost certainly deliberate, I think. It's a Richard Herring quote.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: As IF they are equal?

        Dunno about you, but the men I see are not == women, no matter how hard and often the Wimmins Studies folk tell us they are.

        And there begins the feminazis' problems.

    3. Elmer Phud
      Happy

      "I truly believe Women should be treated as if they are equal."

      No wonder you went AC

    4. Bleu

      As if

      I am all in favour of equality, but examination and education systems in the West seem to have been adjusted to favour the gab of the girls. Graduates in bullshit degrees with no or negative value are overwhelmingly women.

      State subsidies for those meaningless qualifications are also absurdly high, even though the idiot students (male or female) are overwhelmingly drawn from the upper and top of middle class.

      Looked at University entrance figures lately, and the proportion of courses that are utter bullshite? I am sorry for the brighter boys, they are being thrown on the rubbish pile of society, treated as automatic problems by female PC teachers from primary school.

      1. Hollerith 1

        Re: As if

        And yet, Bleu, all those brighter boys (indeed all boys) do seem to end up as managers, senior people, even CEOs etc in later life, as a glance at any company will show. It's amazing!!!

        1. Bleu

          Re: As if

          Hollerith 1,

          You are quite wrong.

          That is a social class, school tie thing.

          The 'managers, senior people, even CEOs etc in later life' are generally dullards, this is exactly why there was a rush to abolish the moves towards meritocracy that had been made in many places outside the communist countries during the depths of the Cold War, well before the betrayal of the USSR.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: As if

        Not to mention the women who do get reasonable degrees drop out of the field as soon as they have a kid, leading to shortages of professionals in the industry (ex: doctors).

        The reason why the education system and everything else favours women and girls at the expense of men and boys is because they constitute over 50% of the voters. Considering democracy is a system that imposes the wishes of the many on the few, and considering how women consistently vote in favour of security at the expense of personal liberty, we really were screwed the minute we gave them the vote.

        As for equality, women only want it when they can reap the benefits without assuming any of the responsibilities (think white collar jobs), not when it comes to taking a shell for their country, or when it comes to fixing the sewer.

        Of course, when I say women, I DO NOT mean your girl next door who has a STEM degree, is the field boss at a construction site, and raises 3 kids at home all by herself. She would be the exception, not the norm. And before you ask, I am adequately endowed and do not live in my mother's basement.

        1. Wzrd1 Silver badge

          Re: As if

          "Not to mention the women who do get reasonable degrees drop out of the field as soon as they have a kid, leading to shortages of professionals in the industry (ex: doctors)."

          Odd, my experience was a break from work, then return to work. Since I've retired from the military, I've worked under a handful of women managers.

          Great managers, saw the odds and ends missed by others.

          And strangely, our eldest daughter is a medical professional, who has delivered a grand and final total of three grandchildren for our admiration and joy. She remained working as a medical professional, within a very reasonable time period between deliveries.

          So, I suspect one of two things are possible here.

          You are a lying asshole.

          You are working for the most effete corporation on the planet.

          Would the headquarters be located in France?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: As if

            @Wzrd1

            Give it a rest buddy. Here, go read this:

            http://i.imgur.com/QVusiqL.jpg?1

        2. LucreLout
          Joke

          Re: As if @Anon

          we really were screwed the minute we gave them the vote

          Wow.

          And before you ask, I am adequately endowed and do not live in my mother's basement

          She kick you out for being a dumbass then?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: As if @Anon

            @LucreLout

            No my mom isn't a feminazi, thankfully.

      3. Wzrd1 Silver badge

        Re: As if

        Congratulations! You have earned my down vote. An event quite epic, due to the rarity of the usage of a down vote.

        I'm reminded of a personal introduction card I saw back in the tail end of the 1970's, early 1980's. One particular model I was quite fond of read, "Methinks thou art an asshole".

        Although, that is in error, I do not think that, I know that as a certain fact equal with the law of gravity.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      We can 'treat them as equals' as soon as we have a mandated 50/50 quota for them in the army.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        > We can 'treat them as equals' as soon as we have a mandated 50/50 quota for them in the army

        No. We can respect them as equals right now. The Army can catch-up when it can.

        1. Wzrd1 Silver badge

          "No. We can respect them as equals right now. The Army can catch-up when it can."

          I have only one argument, globally. *Which* Army? US, UK, Russian Federation, Salvation Army?

          I really would prefer a preface of the nation being spoken of, to more accurately deliver my thermonuclear tipped venomous barb.

          I've personally operated with many military national forces, so I know where and how to deliver the killing stroke. But only if the asshole admits to which nation he or she comes from.

          Spelling isn't 100%.

          Then, there's the entire mess of foreign nationals working for national forces, playing psyops games.

      2. R Callan

        The best thing would be to get rid of the defamatory expressions "men's" or "womens". No more mens and womens tennis, golf, football rowing running quotas preferences etc. etc. what a great world we could have.

        p.s. I have to agree with Sir Tim. I have seen all of the conditions he described, plus a few more. Having done thyroid function tests on young still living at home female workmates in the 60's it could be embarrassing at the time.

        1. Wzrd1 Silver badge

          "Having done thyroid function tests on young still living at home female workmates in the 60's it could be embarrassing at the time."

          Blather, sirrah, you forget the year/decade/century.

          Today, we have iodine in salt, to address that of which you claim triumphant superiority.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Last time I looked, NZ wasn't so far from the sea?

          2. R Callan
            Boffin

            As iodine has been in salt to prevent the occurence of goitre, an iodine deficiency since early in the 20th century your comment does not address my 1960s. You obviously do not know that the contraceptive pill, even in women with normal thyroid function, reduces the production of T4 thyroid hormone. Hence my comments regarding age, residency and gender of the workmates.

            p.s. I have to take T3 (thyroxine), not because of any iodine deficiency, but because of the most common auto-immune disease. It was detected by thyroid function tests (T3, T4 and thyroid stimulating hormone levels plus thyroid auto-antibodies). Additional iodine has no effect.

            1. Bleu

              T5

              if we are to counting the abominable effort with the wonderful Christian Bale, is to arrive in cinemas this year. Will Arnold require full CG?

              I loved Terminator III, so am expecting many downvotes.

              I have no idea about thyroid supplements, R Callan, but you are getting the vote from me.

      3. Wzrd1 Silver badge

        "We can 'treat them as equals' as soon as we have a mandated 50/50 quota for them in the army."

        Well, your assholeship, I am a US Army retiree, however I will admit some admiration from various Commonwealth SAS gentlemen who quite enjoyed watching myself and my team work under my leadership, during a mutual aid mission.

        Considering that scope of work experience and military experience and rank, may I direct you to fuck yourself with a 40mm bore brush?

    6. Equitas

      Non-subjuncitivist feminists

      "as if they are equal" -- well, AC is certainly not literate. "as if" requires to be followed by the subjunctive, so it should have read "as if they were equal". But then AC claims to be a feminist, and I've never found feminists to be particularly hot on logic.

      1. Ralph B
        Headmaster

        Re: Non-subjuncitivist feminists

        > I've never found feminists to be particularly hot on logic.

        But your criticism was of the AC's grammar rather than his or her logic, surely?

      2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: Non-subjuncitivist feminists

        AC is certainly not literate. "as if" requires to be followed by the subjunctive

        So - you're an idiot prescriptivist who doesn't understand linguistics or English usage, and you can't come up with a less awkward phrasing than "requires to be followed".

        Maybe you should come back after you've learned to write in a marginally articulate fashion.

        Or, better, just stay away.

    7. Jeremy Puddleduck

      "As if they are equal"???

      But we *are* equal!

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

  4. Trollslayer
    Flame

    Well done

    You have managed to insult vaginas by the comparison!

  5. David Knapman

    Because we all know that it's fundamentally impossible for two people of the same gender to fall in love?

    1. Adam Azarchs

      Proof

      Proof that he's not just bigoted against women, but also homosexuals.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Proof

        It seems more than 98% of the world consists of heterosexuals (well according to a BBC survey) so I wouldn't expect him to have to qualify his remarks as he seems to have been talking in general terms only. I don' t think he's claiming that all women fall in love with him or vice verse and nor do I think he's suggesting that all women cry when given any form of criticism.

    2. Bleu

      what does 'the same gender' mean?

      As I type, the lez couple above my tiny flat are doing their usual act of stamping about late at night.

      I suppose the mannish one I have never seen may be defined as a different 'gender', but I will get downvotes galore by reference to 'gender' as a grammatical thing in most languages.

      Sorry, no matter how hard you try to imagime, or how harsh the surgical interventions, biological sex generally trumps so-called 'gender'. Of course, sexual preference adds another level.

      'Gender'as used by the PC crowd, is a nonsensical formulation.

      I speak as one who is a little admired dressing as a woman, but having enjoyed many x-y years, would never say 'I am really a woman'.

      Truly, that phenomenon is nonsense, Jenner included. He would never have won the decathlon with a record score if he had really been a woman.

      1. Toastan Buttar
        Facepalm

        Re: what does 'the same gender' mean?

        So you're a cross-dresser (transvestite), but not trans-gender, and yet you feel qualified to dismiss every trans-gender person as nonsensical.

        Bravo. Your and idiout.

        1. Bleu

          Re: what does 'the same gender' mean?

          I am beyond definition, sure not a 'transvestite'.

          Your post displays true ignorance. Perhaps I have rather more knowledge and social experience of that on which I speak than thee?

          Perhaps I have experienced a lifetime of being bullied for being a bit 'girly' and annoyingly being assumed, for that reason, to be gay?

          I was last assaulted only last week, lost consciousness, have a broken rib and, still, congealed blood in my hair, fortunately not a sharp fracture but still extremely painful, eleven days later.

          Perhaps that gives me a little more qualification to comment than you?

          Maybe I am an idiot just because of the concussion? Concussion is such fun.

        2. Bleu

          Re: what does 'the same gender' mean?

          'Your and idiout.' is also a nice touch, speaks volumes about Toastan Buttar.

        3. Bleu

          Re: what does 'the same gender' mean?

          I am far from an idiot. If you want on of the best Toastar and Buttar experiences, buy a ripe avococado. Some good bread (not crap sugar-filled garbage). Lightly toast the bread.

          Spread butter on the result. Not always, but it does make the

          result extra-delicious. Promite, whatever 'mite' on top of that. Pro is my fave, although the import shop chain where I can buy it died recently.

          Your problem, I would guess, is to find an avocado that is ripe but not rotten, or one that is not ripe and will stay that way until you have to throw it out.

          On top of the 'mite', to my preference Promite, a lavish serve of fresh mashed avocado, pepper and a little lemon on that (not essential), your mouth and tummy will be in heaven.

      2. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

        Re: what does 'the same gender' mean?

        Off the top of my head: human *bilogical* genders, as dictated by genetics and hormone levels:

        X

        XX

        XX (Androgenic, non-PCOS)

        XX (Androgenic, PCOS origin)

        XY

        XXX

        XXY (Klinefelter)

        XXY (Non-Klinefelter, Male identity)

        XXY (Non-Klinefelter, Female identity)

        XXY (Non-Klinefelter, Binary identity)

        XXXY

        XXYY

        XXXXY

        XYY

        In addition, humans can be born as chimeras (sometimes called "mosaic individuals") containing cells that consist of two or more combinations of the above. (Though there had yet to be a documented case of a human chimera with more than two origin cells.) Chimeras are where two distinct zygotes fuse into a single being. Instead of having the DNA of only one individual, some % of the cells (usually half) are from one individual and some % of the cells (usually half) are from another.

        This can lead to human chimeras where, for example, half the individual's cells are XX and half are XY. More than that; it's not just the sex chromosomes that are different, the entire DNA is different, as different as they would be between brother and sister. That is because, in effect, the chimera(XX, XY) is their own brother and sister.

        All of this is before we get into epigenetic issues that can cause hormonal changes in individuals from a young age which absolutely can and do alter gender identity at a very fundamental level during or before puberty.

        Human "sexes" are not binary. We have way the hell more than just two biological sexes, and we have even more genders. All from a biological and hormonal perspective, without needing to touch "choice" as part of the equation.

        And I am sure I'm missing a few in my list above. Check your prejudice, eh?

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