back to article NO, Joe Hockey, a 'Netflix tax' wouldn't raise 'billions'

Where does Joe Hockey, Australia's treasurer, get his data from? While The Register has no ideological opposition to the notion of a “Netflix tax” – that is, that a download bought by an Australian in Australia should be subject to the same 10 per cent GST whether its source is Netflix or locals like Fetch TV or Quickflix – we …

  1. FozzyBear

    yep thats right

    This moron is in charge of Australia's federal budget

    1. Pompous Git Silver badge

      Re: yep thats right

      Obviously you never watched Yes Minister.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: yep thats right

        Yes Minister is such an accurate reflection of today's government it hurts!

        Series One, among the first episodes was "Big Brother" (Data retension laws anyone?), a few other contemporary issues too.

        This was a television show aired in the early 80's!

        1. julianh72

          Re: yep thats right

          "The Thick of It" is a better reflection of wheelings and dealings in government / bureaucracy in the 21st century! (I would love to be a fly on the wall when Malcolm Tucker gives Joe Hockey a bollocking!)

  2. silent_count

    Erm

    While I only skimmed over the AFR article, I assumed the "billions" quote was an international exaggeration as there's no way it could be factual. As Mr Chirgwin points out, Australia's online economy isn't that big.

    1. silent_count

      Re: Erm

      Apologies. That should have been "intentional exaggeration".

      1. Solmyr ibn Wali Barad

        Re: Erm

        Saying 'zillion', with a pinky in his mouth, would have been clearly intentional. For a billion, it's not so clear, and furthermore, such a claim can serve no good purpose whichever way you look at it.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    As an Australian tax payer, I wouldn't mind if they raised money from GST on such things, but first I'd REALLY like to know what it was going to be SPENT on??

    1. Diogenes
      Windows

      If you are a resident of the Peoples Socialist Democratic Republic of Victoriastan ( a wholly owned subsiduary of the CMFEU) , $500 million - 1 billion will go towards building a road that will not be built,

      :-)

      1. dan1980

        @Diogenes

        While I am not sure I agree with you, I did enjoy that post.

      2. Gray Ham Bronze badge

        @Diogenes,

        From his handle, I rather assume that codysydney is a resident of the land of the free soon-to-be-sold-off-cheaply-to-China north of the Murray.

      3. NotArghGeeCee

        @Diogenes. Seriously?

        A road project commissioned without mandate by the last Tory, in-the-pockets-of-big-business, shower of shinola:

        - using a business case so dodgy they wouldn't release it (that from the released summary still showed a negative ROI even with stretched assumption),

        -using contracts rushed through without oversight just prior to an election they knew they would likely lose to an opposition who had stated that they would cancel the project and who took that pledge to the election,

        - using cushy "side letters" that guaranteed eye-wateringly substantial break payments to the contractors even if the project was subsequently cancelled, the very costs you are whining about.

        If you want to whinge about the lefties wasting money then talk about the desal plant done by the last Commie, in-the-pockets-of-the-unions, shower of shinola - now *that* was a CFMEU-driven rort if ever there was one.

    2. Adrian Harvey

      It'll be spent on what it's spent on now. There's no big new revenue stream here, just a new form of tax avoidance.

  4. julianh72

    Google and GST

    If you scroll to the bottom of the page on the Australian Google Play site, it clearly says "All prices include GST" for apps, books, movies and TV shows, etc, so hopefully this is a true statement, and the GST is indeed rendered to the ATO.

    Interestingly, if you click on "Devices", it takes you to the Google Store page, and there is no statement about GST there as far as I can tell. I have bought a few Nexus devices from the Google Play site in the past (before they moved "Devices" to the new Google Store). The dealings were with a Google Singapore subsidiary, and while some of the invoices stated that the invoice price included Tax, some indicated no tax was collected. Where Tax was shown, the amount was not always 1/11 of the full invoice price, which it should be for the Australian GST of 10%. Also the Invoice was not labelled as a "Tax Invoice", and there was no ABN, which suggests to me that the invoice would not meet the requirements of a GST Receipt for Australian Tax purposes. In other words, it would appear that Google Singapore sometimes collected some tax for somebody, but it isn't clear where that tax was sent.

    1. hughca

      Re: Google and GST

      I just checked a few recent receipts from Play Store purchases - music, movie rental, Android games - and they all say "Includes GST of A$0.00"

      Perhaps when they say "All prices include GST" they mean they are paying the GST which they are legally required to pay... which is nothing...

  5. dan1980

    Facts? why would he bother with them?

    The point about governments is that nothing is ever their fault.

    When a political party is in opposition, they will blame the government for all manner of things it has little control over and insist they fix these things, complaining when they don't. Unwisely, though seemingly inevitably, they go on to promise that, if elected, they will sort it out.

    Once they get in, they are then faced with exactly the same situation as the previous government and exactly the same inability or, being in the pockets of the same commercial interests, unwillingness to effect the changes and improvements they had been bleating about for the previous months and years.

    It's all the previous government's fault, don't you know? They left the budget is such a bad state that, sadly, we can't do what we promised . . . (Never mind that the claims of disastrous circumstances have been debunked not only by leading local and international economists but by treasury themselves.)

    So, because it can't possibly be the (current) government's fault, it has to be someone else's. Once the rhetoric of blaming the last government* wears too thin even for politicians, they have to start finding other reasons why they are breaking their promises or things aren't going as well as they made out that they would.

    A ha! It's the Google and the Apple! Those mega corporations are fleecing Australia of our rightful income and now that Netflix has arrived, they are going to fleece us further still!!!

    It's true - income generated from Australian customers is not generating the Australia tax revenue that it could if everything was done exactly as the government wanted. But the idea that this, finally, is the missing piece - the extra money that is missing - is ridiculous. And that is what they are, essentially, implying. The 'billions' comment might be utterly, ridiculously false and unsupportable even in the most fanciful of best-case scenarios but that doesn't mean it won't get picked-up by talk-back radio and believed by those whose main political 'thought process' is to get outraged by whatever trumped up claims are being made by the party they have chosen as the one best supporting their personal prejudices and self-image.

    This is not the domain of one side or the other - it is the perennial bluster and finger-pointing that our politicians engage in to avoid having to ever really do anything or take responsibility for their actions or inaction.

    It's been oft remarked that if our 'leaders' (of any stripe in nearly any country) spent any appreciable percent of their time and effort (let alone our money) on the job of actually trying to make the lives of the people better then the whole world would be nearly unrecognisable to those of us accustomed to the constant bickering and positioning and unwavering self-interest that dominates our political systems.

    * - Despite the assurances we get each time that the new government will "stop the blame game" and "get down to business".

  6. CanadianMacFan

    That's easy

    He's using the numbers that the Australian equivalent of RIAA and MPAA are saying piracy are taking away from the industry. Once those illegal down loaders start paying then the billions will roll into the treasury.

  7. AndyMR2

    Meh...

    People will just use a VPN service to change their digital location.

    Not only will they save the 10% GST but they'll save the "Australia Tax" as well.

  8. Winkypop Silver badge
    FAIL

    Old Joe "Eleventy" Hockey

    As far as Federal Treasurers go, old Eleventy is a train-wreck looking for a section of track to fall off.

  9. MrMeme

    According to the ABS in 2006 there were 7.8 million households with a 1.3% annual increase. So lets say there's currently 9 million households.

    So if *every* household takes out a $12/mth subscription. it'd be $1.296b/yr or $129.6m in GST

    But even by 2020 the most optimistic projection for Netlfix penetration for any country is 35%. Which bring it down to about $45.36m/yr in GST

    Yeah I can see the Treasurer's point, it's only a few zero's short of a few billions.

    Notes:

    ABS households: http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/4102.0Main+Features20Dec+2010

    Netflix penetration by country: http://www.statista.com/statistics/324568/penetration-rate-netflix-country/

  10. Tim Roberts 1

    said Hockey ...

    Said Hockey " I've worked out a way"

    "to get Netflix - the fuckers - to pay"

    "I'll charge GST"

    " 'Twill bring BILLIONS to me"

    "Hey Tony .... now what do you say?"

  11. bahughes1138

    His Name is Joe freakin' Hockey?

    Come to Canada Joe. You may be stupid but we're contractually bound to love you.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: His Name is Joe freakin' Hockey?

      You're welcome to him… I assume intelligence isn't a prerequisite for holding a position in government over there?

      1. Alistair
        Coat

        Re: His Name is Joe freakin' Hockey?

        @ Stuart:

        We have Stephen"FakeEmOut"Harper@notabalancedbudget.ca

        Tradeya ... at least we can put your dude to work as a hockey announcer, where he'll do less damage.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    He's just a Spinal Tap fan

    This treasurer goes up to 11.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The budget is measured over 4 years.

    Budget savings and expenses are measured over 4 years (for example see here: http://www.budget.gov.au/2014-15/content/bp2/html/bp2_expense-06.htm).

    An extra $500M of revenue annually is a budget saving of billions of dollars.

    Perhaps the author should improve their own economic literacy before pointing the figure at others.

  14. Wombling_Free

    Where Hockey gets his metadata

    Most likely from the anti-pirate brigade, who claim that Austfailians download eleventytrazillion dollars worth of films each day.

    Quite how we download as much as they claim is beyond me, its not like we all have the NBN or something.

    Also, Yes Minister looks like a serious documentary compared to the tuckfards who run this shothile.

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