Given that US law both forces US companies to provide information and provides no opportunity to tell the customers that such demands have taken place, does this mean US car companies will be locked out the European market?
Hello? Police? Yes, I'm a car and my idiot driver's crashed me
New cars sold in the EU will soon be able to call the emergency services without human intervention. A new law approved by MEPs on Tuesday will make the so-called eCall system obligatory for all new car models sold in the EU from April 2018. eCall uses the Europe-wide 112 emergency number to call the emergency services …
COMMENTS
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Thursday 19th March 2015 14:19 GMT The Crow From Below
Huh? I have re-read your comment and the article multiple times and I am still none the wiser as to what you are trying to say or what point you are trying to make.
US car companies have been fitting this sort of system to vehicles for years (OnStar). All the EU have done is make this mandatory.
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Thursday 19th March 2015 14:32 GMT Vimes
Using systems provided by anybody even remotely connected to the US means leaving yourself open to abuse by the US government, at least for non-Americans at any rate.
This means that US government could potentially demand that the provider allows for this location functionality be switched on without the users knowledge and without the public authorities for the country concerned ever knowing what has happened.
This rather makes a mockery of any suggestion that this will never be about watching us IMO, and given the sharing arrangements between organisations on both sides of the pond it will probably be a real boon for agencies keen to spy on people here too.
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Thursday 19th March 2015 14:45 GMT The Crow From Below
"Using systems provided by anybody even remotely connected to the US means leaving yourself open to abuse by the US government, at least for non-Americans at any rate."
Any system? Like the internet that you are using right now?
"This means that US government could potentially demand that the provider allows for this location functionality be switched on without the users knowledge and without the public authorities for the country concerned ever knowing what has happened."
Like the US controlled GPS satellites everyone currently uses? Or the mobile phone in your pocket?
"This rather makes a mockery of any suggestion that this will never be about watching us IMO, and given the sharing arrangements between organisations on both sides of the pond it will probably be a real boon for agencies keen to spy on people here too."
You think they can't already via the smartphones that Google (American) and Apple (ditto) saturated the market with?
I'm sorry but this sort of tin foil hattery is even more crazy than normal, especially when you could compare what you have said to ANY product with electronics inside (at some point they ALL come into contact with some company heavily connected to the USA). Your concerns are valid but are WAY too late to fear this sort of system when you already cart around everything they need to track you 24x7 anyway.
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Thursday 19th March 2015 15:53 GMT fruitoftheloon
@Vimes - how to disable it...
Vimes,
as per usual, there will be a fuse somewhere which if removed would disable it, BUT it will probably knock-out other systems; plus I suspect that in the event of a claim, if it were not working, your insurers would use it as an excuse to refuse a claim.
Or some clever folk will figure out how to reprogram it via OBD to disable it.
Or if viable, isolate the antenna...
Cheers,
j
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Thursday 19th March 2015 18:22 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: @Vimes - how to disable it...
> Or if viable, isolate the antenna...
And then die because you crashed at night, in heavy rain, in the middle of nowhere, and none noticed until three days latter¹.
Back in my emergency services days, sometimes I really wanted to kick the shit out of some of the Darwin Award aspirants we came across, but we were there to save lives, not judge them. Which is why I won't say "be my guest".
¹ Seen that happen.
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Friday 20th March 2015 01:10 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: @Ac: @Vimes - how to disable it...
> Yup, that's each persons choice to make.
What would that be? If you mean intentionally disabling the thing, and someone else is involved in the accident, both were I used to be in the emergency services and in my current country of residence (and a few in between) you would be guilty of a crime known in French as "non assistance à personne en danger".
But I'll just say this: anyone seriously thinking of tampering with the thing is an utter idiot. That is indeed your problem, but if you end up in an accident and make life more difficult than it could have been to the rescue party, they will not be happy. You might have taken someone else's life because they could not respond in time because they were out there still looking for you. If you or someone else involved die, even if it's obvious that it was because of your own stupidity, it is still going to inflict frustration and maybe some degree of guilt on your rescuers. Not to mention everyone that you'll leave behind: family, friends, employer, the tax office, ...
So just don't fucking do it. If you're that paranoid about being tracked, work to get the laws changed and privacy strengthened instead of trying to get around it, which doesn't work anyway. And if you do have reason to be paranoid (activist/freedom-fighter/terrorist depending on your skin colour and the length of your beard), then you should have received training from your fellow conspirators on the relevant counter-measures and have the self-discipline to apply them strictly.
Says me who don't own a mobile phone, mind.
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Saturday 21st March 2015 12:27 GMT Intractable Potsherd
Re: @Ac: @Vimes - how to disable it...
AC - merely because you have "seen some things" doesn't give you,or anyone else, the right to dictate how anyone else lives their life. I have said before on here (and elsewhere) that compulsory seat-belt and crash-helmet laws were and are bad, because the state is imposing its views on individuals who risk harm to no-one but themselves (and don't give me the "cost of care" argument - it won't wash). This is another situation where the state is deciding what risk I can take, when it is likely that I am the only one that will be affected by it. Your bizarre assertion that it will somehow be to the advantage of someone else - presumably who spun off the road on the wet and dark and wasn't found for three days - doesn't make any sense, and your appeal to some odd law in France (which suggests that it would be illegal not to have a mobile phone with sufficient charge to make an emergency call on your person at all times) just makes you sound ... well, mad, or an ex-policeman (since it is generally police officers complaining about "the horrors I've seen" - not ambulance/paramedic or fire-and-rescue officers who actually do the real work).
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Monday 23rd March 2015 13:23 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: @Ac: @Vimes - how to disable it...
"I have said before on here (and elsewhere) that compulsory seat-belt and crash-helmet laws were and are bad, because the state is imposing its views on individuals who risk harm to no-one but themselves (and don't give me the "cost of care" argument - it won't wash)."
The same ones that allow smokers to access the health services for their self inflicted illnesses, but that's different cos the state can tax tobacco so yield a profit, plus save paying smokers pensions because they die before getting old enough to claim win-win for HMRC and the chancellor.
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Thursday 19th March 2015 23:26 GMT T. F. M. Reader
Re: @Vimes - how to disable it...
> Or if viable, isolate the antenna...
And then die because you crashed at night, in heavy rain, in the middle of nowhere, and none noticed until three days latter.
With all due respect to your emergency services experience, the decision of whether or not to take that risk should be made by the car owner, not by an EU bureaucrat.
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Thursday 19th March 2015 15:37 GMT Anonymous Coward
Stasi State with enlightened self-interest ?
The cars will then proceed to snitch you to the Police when it believes you are exceeding the speed limit by 2 mph.
You will then receive an invitation to attend a "National Speed Awareness Scheme" course at £100 a pop or else get 3 points on your license, but the Police are under no obligation to produce any alleged incriminating evidence against you unless you challenge them in Court.
The Association of Chief Police Officers appears to have a monopolistic pecuniary interest in the arrangements for the "National Speed Awareness Scheme".
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Thursday 19th March 2015 14:28 GMT Anonymous Coward
FORD SYNC
Meh, My ford has its new SYNC system in it that pairs my phone over bluetooth. It has a feature called "emergency assist". I believe if I wrap my little Ford around a tree the car uses my iPhone to inform the police of my stupidity on my behalf.
My iPhone tracks my every move in much more detail anyway, who cares if the car is doing it too!?
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Thursday 19th March 2015 17:27 GMT Richard Jones 1
Re: FORD SYNC
I'm not sure if this is an incentive not to get a Ford or not to get anything apple. Since the last Ford I mistaken bought needed new automatic gearboxes more often than it needed an oil change I will never get another Ford. Since the apple range offers me only things for which I have no need at all, ditto for not having one of them.
I do wonder how well the system will cope with the not spots which is where such assistance would be most effective and needed.
No doubt I will need to ditch my old Nokia one day, but will I still need a mobile anyway by then? Hopefully usable but otherwise dumb phones will still be available.
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Thursday 19th March 2015 14:43 GMT James 51
In theory it's a good idea but it's only a matter of time before it will be abused. How many times have agencies like the NSA and GCHQ promised they weren't doing it and then got caught doing it? And that's before you get into various police agencies as well. The hardware and software will need to be absolutely rock solid.
It's a pity that things have gone so far that obvious advances in safety get thought of in the ways they will be used against us instead of to help us. Otherwise you could start thinking about things like weight sensors that could detect the number of people in the car, accelerometers that gave some idea of the force of the impact etc etc. Not spots might still pose a problem.
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Thursday 19th March 2015 14:50 GMT Anonymous Coward
MS car, in an emergency
Select the "Crash icon" then chose "Do not crash", from the drop down hit "Apply brakes safely", when challenged say "Yes you are an authorised driver" and then wait while the license for "Emergency braking service" is checked.
Do not power down your vehicle during this process.
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Thursday 19th March 2015 15:06 GMT The Crow From Below
Re: Will it be easy to disable ?
Why would you want to? I know the whole "nothing to hide nothing to fear" counter arguments but seriously this is a system that can genuinely save your life and you want to get rip it out of a brand new car just because you forgot your tin foil hat today? it's 2015 and if you haven't worked out that all the worlds countries governments are spying on everybody 24/7 through every device that we have then you need to catch up.
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