Microsoft eyes slice of Raspberry Pi with free Windows 10 sprinkled on top Microsoft is working on a free version of Windows 10 that runs on Brit-tech hit Raspberry Pi in order to penetrate the Internet of Things (IoT). Microsoft and the Raspberry Pi Foundation have been collaborating for six months on the joint project, which emerged early on Monday. Windows 10 will run on the latest version of the …
"And this is different to numerous FOSS derived packages how?"
It isn't different if you're using something that's FOSS derived but is packaged with proprietary components. However, with the huge wealth of completely FOSS options there's absolutely no need to use "FOSS derived" packages, just use FOSS packages.
Personally I only ever use or write FOSS software unless there's no other option. I can manage as a programmer to profit because like most programmers I'm selling my labour rather than the software itself. I do however make one exception to be strong beliefs and that's computer games, because other than for major companies who have the resources to profit from free software sales (it can be done) there's really no way to make a living making games without being able to sell the software. Personally as I move towards developing games I'm going to go with writing my own license that allows temporary inclusion of the code in temporarily proprietary works, in other words a free software license that gives games developers a grace period in which to make money on software sales without compromising their devotion to the spirit of free software. There are probably licenses like that already so I'll research first, but licenses are in a sense a kind of program that runs on the operating system of our legal framework. Unlike the GPL my license would be free software itself, however it would have an exception to prevent re-licensing of software already licensed under the original licenses terms.
Office and Server - same place they always got money.
The only thing that has changed is that somebody has realised that if everyone starts running this cloudy free stuff then sales of Office and Server sales might be hit so we have to do something to compete / dump freebies to protect our monopoly on the desktop.
"Office and Server - same place they always got money."
Well Office is now effectively free, and they are discouraging use of Server through O365 and PaaS so it may be time to read some updates :)
This is very clearly Microsoft planning Azure as their next big thing, or rather continuing to plan something which is already a very big thing.
The plan is that some geeky kid buys a Raspberry Pi 2 with Windows 10 on it. Said kid then develops an amazing widget which we all want, but which has a cloud backend. The billion users of the widget then somehow fund Azure services, probably via advertising.
In this scenario, Azure can already offer image hosting, content delivery, machine learning services, media encoding, database services, web platforms, mail infrastructure, scalable server infrastructure and much, much more. Unfortunately for Linux, they also offer a very compelling integrated coding platform which allows said youngster to take advantage of all that power with about 10 minutes training. The platform is also effectively free (Visual Studio) along with the code repository which I forget the name of but it's cloud based and free.
There are a great many startups who have used Azure or AWS to rapidly scale a great idea and then end up worth billions. Mirosoft are betting that they will get some of those billions if the startup is started by someone who got free Windows, free Office, free Visual Studio, free code repository and free trials of Azure services. That person may also be somewhere not in "the West" too given the price tag of these things. They are probably right too, and sadly I suspect that not only will 2015 still not be the year of Linux on the desktop, or Linux on the server, it's probably also not the year of Linux in the cloud either because Microsoft are very good at this game.
Hey, it's all about choice.
You choose to see the glass empty.
Others, who like MS, and I do not count myself overmuch in that camp, will see it as full.
I think it's a clever move. Exposure, goodwill, very limited lost revenue. Bit of embedded cred, potentially? I think a more competent, non-dominant, Windows, give us all more choices by existing. Rather than having a Linux and BSD, which I prefer, monoculture.
I suspect nothing MS would ever do would be good to you. Which is A-OK. Choice, you know.
First, thanks for not downvoting me in the context of an OS discussion ;-) I know of Theo and systemd but not enough to argue either way. Let me make my point differently.
Longtime Windows dev, who worked at least 70% of my non-editor time on the command line. Always well aware cmd.exe was a joke as a shell.
Bash is awesome now that I am not on Windows. Noob, for sure, but starting to write functions and slowly getting the hang of the tools like cut, awk, etc... I really like the idea of small-ish programs passing each other data through text pipes. Text files, not binary configuration. The unix way.
While I love Bash, I find the concept of Powershell interesting. Passing data through objects rather than parsing text? Not that I like Powershell, the few times I used it I found it somewhat convoluted and the signing bit seems excessive on your own machine and directories. But some posters here who seem to know way more about Bash than I do have at least some good things to say about Powershell.
Maybe a future approach to shells could learn a thing or two from BASH and Powershell?
My point? Lots of 'nix's philosophy is battle-tested, simple, clever. But it also dates back to the 70s. Innovation happens best when many different ideas compete and when there is more than one paradigm. Having more desktop OS philosophies than just the descendents of the Bell Labs' OS is beneficial to computer technology. Even if I prefer 'nix.
As MS is no longer quite the dominant monopolist, I figure its continued relevance is more beneficial than its demise.
That's why people who want to eradicate Windows as a choice for others, regardless of what MS is doing, irk me. People who poke fun at MS technical shortcomings and criticize its behavior are fine. Hey, I do it all time.
Oh, I very seldom downvote: much more satisfying to argue ;) and downvoting someone because you're engaged in a difference of opinion with them is just unsportsmanlike behaviour. (I'll make one exception: if I do downvote a post, I tend to reply giving my reasons. But because I'm always ready to get schooled in such august company, I usually just do the latter; you can't retract a downvote.)
In any case I broadly agree with your point (that post actually started life as a grammarnazi, hence the bolding, then I went away for a bit, came back and changed thrust for some reason). As you pointed out, this is mostly focused on the embedded space, where my references don't fit and I suspect people are a bit less partisan about OSes than they are in the desktop and even server spaces. (I mean, how else do you explain Windows' embedded market share? lol). There's certainly a lot less to differentiate Linux and BSD in that space, right enough.
Also, I do indeed find that I like Microsoft more the lower their fortunes sink and the more they have to actually compete on merit. No argument there. As for the mooted Übershell, well, I ran in terror from Powershell after one sitting, so I can't really comment much, but I'm quietly fascinated by the idea of creating a chimera of its and bash's good points. Not sure how possible it really is to marry two such diverse models, though.
But yeah, I'd be pretty fed up if we weren't allowed to take the piss when they (or the *nix side) do screw up comically. But those who just do it reflexively are rather tedious :(
"a more competent, non-dominant, Windows, give us all more choices by existing."
You may have a problem convincing the companies and people who bought the Kool-Aid for WinCE-based OSes like HPC2000 and PocketPC a decade or more ago. Those OSes lasted what, three years, before MS gave its customers no choice - HPC2000, PocketPC, gone.
You may have a similar problem selling this new venture to the handful of companies (not household names) who backed MS's attempt to take over the set top box market. BT were one of a limited number of companies that MS managed to convince. A few years later, next generation of boxes come out. BT had made the choice to carry on *without* the MS software.
MS. The x86 software company, for desktops and datacentres.
But not anywhere else or anything else.
Agree. I'd have a problem selling myself the idea of using non-core MS offerings in a business critical fashion ;-)
Continuity is not their strong point. Silverlight anyone? WinPhone 7? I'd forgotten, mostly, about your examples, but they are very valid. WinRT's future?
In the context of Raspberry Pi 2 experimentation your warnings may or may not signal a big risk. Possibly there will be no Windows 11 port. What about security patches for their donation-ware?
In a larger context, evolution is driven by diversity and winners and losers. Not just settling on one winner's family tree. I am not advocating that you, or I, need to cuddle of to MS overmuch. However others should be free to do so.
"Kool-Aid for WinCE-based OSes"
You mean like the millions of winterms, tills and handheld scanners still in use today? WinCE was still supported until very recently, might even still be supported, and was extremely popular in the embedded market, just like its successors and just like Win10 IoT probably will be. Microsoft don't want you to buy a Raspberry Pi to run as a computer, they want you to buy one to turn into a popular gadget, like an internet connected kettle, internet connected thermostat, wifi scales, or something yet to be invented. Each of these devices needs an infrastructure component in the web - see Withings as a great example with their health portal. That's where the money is right now.
Wow, that's a pretty decent gesture from Microsoft. Surprising even given the engineering commitment required to support a new platform like that.
So now we have a cheap as chips ARM v7 platform available to kids and penniless students everywhere, when is the official Google supported Andriod 5 release coming I wonder?
I wonder if it's a Trojan horse to sell Office 365 subs.
Win 10 + Office 365 + Pi 2 = super-cheap office 'PC'
You won't be able to do much work with it, but it's going to appeal to manudjment types who think giving everyone a Pi-in-a-box is going to be everso cheaper than buying a few pallets of Dells.
Admin issues for that kind of 'solution' are going to be interesting. But that won't stop it being popular.
Also, undercutting Apple on price. All the punters want a MacBook Air, but when you have a choice between something that costs less than £50 and something that costs £800 to £1000, a lot of people are going to go for Option A.
I suspect Pi + MS have invented a new thing -> the Austerity Computer.
Abiword on Pi.1 worked, but you could see the screen updates. It was tollerable for trivial work, but I used something bigger unless someone else was using it. Abiword and LibreOffice have been running fine on my 4 core 1GHz ARMv7 box since early 2012 (tripple the cost of a Pi). For the vast majority of office work, this is fine. The NIC is '1GHz', but ⅓GHz would be more honest when you look at the memory bandwidth. It is attached to a 100MHz switch. It was using an SSD connected by USB until the eSATA cable arrived. Lack of 100MHz network and lack of SATA are not noticable issues for office work or for a ripped DVD client / server. On a good day, two users can watch 1080p over a 100MHz net.
Linux users have been able to set up an 'austerity computer' for years. Sometimes they are even for sale directly to computer somewhat-literates. In the past, such computers vanished half way through an exhibition and an underpowered windows box appeared after a couple of months later for twice the price.
I have no idea what hardware Windows 10 + MS Office really requires but I would expect a Pi.2 to be a perfectly capable Libreoffice box. I have had problems using a Pi.1 as a print server, and would make sure I had a plan B before trying a Pi.2 as a print server.
Personally I've been astonished by how well libreoffice runs on Pi1. I only even tried it last month when I got my B+, not expecting it to even launch, but it did (eventually!) and once up and running it was entirely tolerable for the smallish docs and spreadsheets myself and the GF go in for. UI feedback time I did notice being a bit sluggish, but not really annoying after a minute or two; and actual editing was more responsive. Who knows, with the Pi2 I might even get away with running Firefox (which on the Pi1 is such a pig it's just not funny).
Just sayin', YMMV, etc.
That was my first thought, but according to Scott Hanselman there won't be a shell.
http://www.hanselman.com/blog/TheNewRaspberryPi2WillRunWindows10AndRunUniversalApps.aspx
So while possibly not a super-cheap office PC, I can still see loads of uses for this.
MS have achieved one thing with this though, getting up to speed with Universal apps is now looking like it may just be worth it.
It'll be some bizarrely crippled version, like office for tablets which won't work on a large screen.
But, that apart, it completely misses the point. The only reason people use Windows is for the applications. It's not the familiarity (all lost with 8.1 anyway), or the reliability (lol) or security (lololol). It's because LeisureSuitLarry95 or AdobePhotoshopfreewithconflakes2000 runs on it.
And this isn't true for an ARM processor, so it won't attract anyone. Even the Surface, with an executive-friendly look but the same restriction didn't attract anyone.
This is the funniest thing in IT I have heard or seen since I first encountered Windows Millennium Edition!
Anyone wasting time on this is either a Corporate Windows developer or deluded.
There is a choice of RiscOS, various Linux.
Any of VXWorks, PalmOS, BEOS or QNX would be nicer.
QNX was unfortunately bought by RIM to become Blackberry 10
What other OS would be nice choice on Pi?
"What other OS would be nice choice on Pi?"
Not for the feint hearted just yet though.
I wonder how it will perform as a homeserver with 2 or 3 4TB powered USB HDDs and ZFS RAID?
Yes, I know about the ethernet/USB thing, just wondering what sort of throughput it might manage, say a couple or three streaming HD videos and suchlike.
"Anyone wasting time on this is either a Corporate Windows developer or deluded."
Question: In the entire history of our fine(ish) planet have any of the *NIX crew stopped to consider that maybe, just maybe, some people actually find using Windows easier and/or preferable for their requirements?
If Windows 10 on Pi 2 takes on a form that is usable for my needs and is free (or even just cheap) you will find that I am quite happy to be deluded.
Right, I've been letting this one slide for a while, but enough is enough.
It's ANDROID. A.N.D.R.O.I.D.
I swear it's as if there's some conspiracy at work to propagate this misspelling. Who on earth could benefit from that? Certainly not Microsfot...
[Grammarnazi icon wasn't enough, this has been building for a while.]
>Right, I've been letting this one slide for a while, but enough is enough.
>It's ANDROID. A.N.D.R.O.I.D.
>I swear it's as if there's some conspiracy at work to propagate this misspelling. Who on earth could >benefit from that? Certainly not Microsfot...
It's more likely be cock-up than conspiracy... we recognise words at a glance by their overall shape (which is why UK road signs use Title Case, and not UPPER CASE like the USA does...), so Android and Andriod can escape proofreading. It probably doesn't help that i and o are adjacent on most people's keybaords.
Sorry, keyboards.
Teh
Let's be clear: this is no sort of magnaminous gesture from Microsoft.
Microsoft are shit-scared that a whole generation of children will come through schools without the association that programmable computers == Windows.
Worse, the clever ones who are tinkering with Linux will grow up to deploy Linux in their workplaces and Linux in the cloud.
I was wondering why the hell upping the core count and RAM on the Model B. This explains it.
In the absense of sufficient power feed, 1G NIC and SATA there is really very little you can do with 1G RAM and Linux in IOT space which cannot be done with 512M (or 256M for that matter).
So the answer to the "why raise the hardware spec" is now clear - it needs to comply with the minimum spec for Windows 10 which surprise, surprise is 1G RAM.
Why are you so obsessed with 1gb NIC's and SATA?
This is a low end device FFS
With the pretense for media center capabilities including HD decode and ability to capture video at reasonable rates. While you can just about get by with the 100MB/s interrupt driven NIC and USB for both it is exactly that - "get by". To do anything more with media you need a decent NIC and a decent storage as well as USB power budget that does not cause a crash the moment you plug in a decen 5.1 channel USB audio into it.
The Pi is good for what it is - IO (for those of us who cannot be a**ed to deal with Arduino). Other stuff - not really and the increase in CPU and memory does little for that either as the constraint is elsewhere.
So coming back to the possible use cases for core/ram increase:
1. IoT, automation, etc - nope (it is good as it is).
2. Media - nope (constraint elsewhere)
3. Windows - oh yeah, it just made the minimum envelope for version 10.
Nuff said.
I'd say the most useful IoT thing this would improve is video recognition. The link to the camera is one of the few that isn't severely bandwidth limited, so the extra ram and processing is useful.
Media ? who cares - the android TV addons handle that.
Windows ? no point, see another posting I wrote
Stuff I use Raspi's for that will be better with the new one....
1. Media player (Yes, Kodi works really well, at home, and in the motorhome)
2. Camera work. Quad cores and NEON means much more image processing capability
3. H264 testing (day job). New device is up to 30 times faster at software H264 encode.
4. Scratch for the children. Works much faster
Stuff I can now use it for that was too slow before.
1. Browsing
2, H264! See above
3. Compiles (a hell of a lot faster means I don't need to cross compile as much)
4. Decent GUI desktop - this is much faster. Now can have multiple open windows with no slow down.
I'm sure there is loads of other stuff that others do that I don't.
"I was wondering why the hell upping the core count and RAM on the Model B. This explains it."
It wasn't so that you can run more intensive applications, of course not. I'm really pleased about this as I'm interested in it's use in RTL/SDR applications. The B+ is ok as a front end but doesn't have enough grunt to be used as a full SDR. This looks like it should be much more capable, it might be able to run some low spec'd GNU Radio apps.
"So the answer to the "why raise the hardware spec" is now clear - it needs to comply with the minimum spec for Windows 10 which surprise, surprise is 1G RAM." - OH FFS!
Bollocks. The new Pi was not driven in any way by MS. AT ALL.
It's more driven by all the newer, higher powered devices like ODROID and similar, and the fact that Brcm developed a higher performance chip that could be bought for the same/similar money.
No need for conspiracy theories when you can have the above facts for free.
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