UK smart meters arrive in 2020. Hackers have ALREADY found a flaw British consumers could easily hack into controversial new smart meters, allowing them to illegally slash their energy bills, cyber-security experts have warned. The caution came as top White Hall apparatchiks met with energy industry leaders today to discuss plans that will see the the devices installed in every British home …
The real cost issue - providers want smart meters because it saves them the cost of sending meter-readers round... sensibly, they prefer to use existing networks (mobile or wifi) rather than build their own, but they want to get a free ride off this existing infrastructure without building any safeguards, that is nuts. Is it really that difficult/expensive to have the equivalent of an RSA token (same as you would get in a bank dongle) in each meter to make sure that data sent is untampered-with?
Secondly, why insist that all meters be changed now, instead of replacing them gradually at their natural end-of-life. Yes, it will take 30-odd years, but what's the rush?
"saves them the cost of sending meter-readers round"
Well they could do that straight away, judging by the way they ignore whatever reading the nice man from G4S has given them, and always send an "estimated" bill instead.
"providers want smart meters because it saves them the cost of sending meter-readers round"
For crying out loud, James! Energy suppliers do not want to install smart meters at all. It is a legally mandated requirement, passed into law by your democratically elected "representatives" in the Energy Acts of 2008 and 2011. And they did that not because you asked them but because they were told to by the Uberfuhrers of Brussels, in directives 2009/72/EC and 2009/73/EC.
Manual meter reading costs are about five quid per meter per year, and I'm sorry to tell you that a £5 a year benefit won't even pay the interest on the costs of a £200 smart meter, never mind the capital or operating costs. There are some other modest savings over the £5 on manual meter reading, such as not having errors arising from estimated bills, and the ability to settle traded volumes far quicker and more accurately, but these are also modest.
That whole episode was one dodgy day for democracy, wasn't it?
Not saying the noble Lord took a bung or anything, but...
A few years from now, when the energy shortages are really kicking in, these little things are going to be the ideal way of meeting some artificial carbon emissions target. Some rich politician in a mansion house full of old fashioned lightbulbs and servants is going to instruct his minions to switch off Halifax for an hour tonight in order to deal with a drop in wind power.
You'll probably be forced to pay for your shiny new smart meter too.
Brave new world, huh?
@ledswinger - thanks for clarifying the meter reading cost, however 1 thing I don't understand... if UK residents are protesting that they will pick up the meter costs (or that the companies will pass it on to them by stealth anyway), surely ANY savings however small on reading the meters is a profit for them?
"passed into law by your democratically elected "representatives" "
not mine!
"if UK residents are protesting that they will pick up the meter costs (or that the companies will pass it on to them by stealth anyway), surely ANY savings however small on reading the meters is a profit for them?"
In theory yes, in practice no. A very small reduction in operating costs will get swallowed up in the continual competition to win customers, in spiralling government interventions, and the like. Without droning too much, the two things that drive energy company profits are (like most businesses) volume and raw material costs. Across the full energy value chain the cost to serve is around 50% fixed, 50% variable (and that variable is related to input fuel costs that are set by world markets). So increasing volume (eg a cold winter) is very important for energy company profits, though note that the profits are recorded in accounts published long after the cold winter is forgotten. Equally a mild winter is an economic disaster for energy companies. And the reason rising input costs are a driver of profits is simply because (like all retail businesses) pricing is a margin on input costs. BMW dealers make better profits per car than Ford dealers, but not as much as Bentley dealers. The same applies in groceries, and most other forms of retailing.
In other markets (eg Spain or the southern US) peak demand can be summer, in which case volume and profits are driven by hot summers and greater air conditioning use, but the principle is the same.
@ Ledswinger, I didn't find anything about smart meters and them being requirement by EU regulation. What I did find was this thing here.
"(27) Member States should encourage the modernisation of distribution networks, such as through the introduction of smart grids, which should be built in a way that encourages decentralised generation and energy efficiency."
If you can point me towards the article that says smart meters are an requirement it would be helpful.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2009:211:0055:0093:EN:PDF (Directive 2009/72/EC)
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2009:211:0094:0136:en:PDF (Directive 2009/73/EC)
"Annex 1 of EU Directives 2009/72/EC and 2009/73/EC3 on common rules for the internal market for electricity and gas require that Member States undertake a cost benefit assessment on the provision for domestic customers of intelligent meters that shall assist the active participation of consumers in the electricity and gas supply markets, and implement these meters where the assessment is positive."
That's from a House of Commons Library briefing note on smart meters. You can certainly argue that the EU didn't mandate them unless the cost benefit assessment is positive. But according to our government (with its evangelical belief in climate change) the cost benefit calculations are positive, and therefore the UK smart meter roll out is indeed mandated by EU directive.
You can argue that the calculations are wrong (and I suspect most people round here agree they are) but that's a separate matter. As long as DECC's numbers turn a positive NPV on the "benefits", smart meters are required by EU directive.
A normal (electromechanical) meter will OFTEN work backwards (the ones with little pointers will do so correctly, the later type with digits will simply click when you get to a '9' on the units counter. So the system is already there for 'customer participation'. But wait, that'd mean you got the same per kwh as the power co charge you, and we can't POSSIBLY have that!
Wrote : - "Manual meter reading costs are about five quid per meter per year"
I have been up to two-and-a-half years (in Bristol) without seeing a meter reader, going on self-reading and estimates.
Probably just as well - some meter readers are useless. When I first moved to the Bristol house, they got the all-important changeover reading wrong by about 1000 units. Funny thing was the company never admitted they were wrong and never sent a second reader to check. They just accepted my own reading and sent a corrected bill "in the interest of customer relations" or some such BS.
When I subsequently moved to where I am now they never even took a changeover reading - just asked me for one over the phone! So I don't know where that £5 goes.
Wrote : - "There are some other modest savings over the £5 on manual meter reading, such as not having errors arising from estimated bills"
A big expense for these companies is the time spent investigation over disputed bills, including estimated ones. But do you seriously believe that will stop with smart metering? I predict that the disputes will increase.
>And they did that because they were told to by the Uberfuhrers of Brussels,
...Who did that because the companies wanted improved meter reading. Brussels, of course, added in more features and more demands, which increased the price and vulnerability of the meters. The companies agreed, as the price they were willing to (have you) pay in order to get permission for the new generation of meters they wished to install.
providers want smart meters because it saves them the cost of sending meter-readers round... AND THEY GET TO MODULATE THE LOAD BY TELE-CONTROL WHEN NECESSARY!
....
Secondly, why insist that all meters be changed now, instead of replacing them gradually at their natural end-of-life. Yes, it will take 30-odd years, but what's the rush?
BECAUSE THEY ($EnergyCompanyUK) MIGHT NEED TO MODULATE YOUR HOUSE 'OFF' SOON-ish
allegedly, sorry for shouting
Yes, it will take 30-odd years, but what's the rush?
Profits for the meter makers, of course. Do you think these yutzes want to amortize their profits across 30 years, when they can get them in 2?
You'd make a really bad Republican...
Profits for the meter makers, of course. Do you think these yutzes want to amortize their profits across 30 years, when they can get them in 2?You'd make a really bad politician...
FTFY. It simply amazes me how many people blindly blame one political party when the opposing political party does the exact same thing. Cronyism exists in all political parties. For the US, George Bush and Dick Cheney had Halliburton. And I'm sure there are many more, but he is out of office so I don't keep up with it. Barack Obama has GE, Solyandra, and many other failed "green" companies.
I think its probably Winnie the Pooh, but can't find the quote.
However, according to Wiktionary (the free dictionary that anyone can edit): "While common in the 16th and 17th centuries, worser is now found only in some regional dialects, and is considered nonstandard."
Those standards are under constant revision ;-)
(PS: additional points if you spot the missing apostrophe)
The evidence does show that smart meters have a modest effect, of low single digit percentage savings on electricity, and circa 1% savings on gas.
Unfortunately that's about the same as the savings from a £30 energy monitor. But the cost benefit calculations for smart meters came from the same people that ordered aircraft carriers without aircraft, and who wrote the prize winning fiction that is the HS2 business case.
it will make a difference to consumption when the govt (or energy company or national grid) decide you're using too much electricity at a peak demand time and turn your supply off the "manage grid load", of course since this is done in the National Interest(TM) you have no choice but to accept it and no recourse for compensation, etc.
It's the only way that this can play out which will make any significant difference to energy usage.
Much agreement, it cannot make a difference. I myself have had "heating anxiety" in my all electric Oxford flat which HAD these stupid meters. I worked out it cost 1GBP to heat the water for a shower, and NO economy seven heaters - on or off...
I might not die of hypothermia due to my relative youth but I am guess that there WILL be elderly people too terrified to turn on the heating. This has been emiprically shown.
The ONLY use for a meter is to let the consumer know something is running when either
a) it shouldn't be
b) it is less efficient that expected.
c) how much money they are going to sting you for.
Oh, and who is liable for loss if the meter lets someone steal your data?
P.
This post has been deleted by its author
Mine's in an under-stairs cupboard. The cupboard is used for routing my cables through. I predict that a fair amount of Cat6 cable in there is likely to interfere with anything trying to get out wirelessly, as I already struggle to grab a mobile signal in the house, let alone in those dark depths in the middle of the house.
And I was originally intending to put my Wifi in there - it seemed nice and central - but the signal was atrocious before I started putting cables through it.
I'm not saying I'd go out of my way to make it not work, but I think they'll struggle to make it work even so. And, sorry, but you're not going to relocate my meter just on the basis of that. The meter's been there for decades and the house designed around that and I'll be damned to have something hanging off an exterior wall and blocking my side-alley.
Is there any reason (beyond making it more difficult for users to tinker with them, and avoiding the typical Reg demographic of technically minded+pissed off at these things) why the meters can't have a communication module that can be remotely wired into the meter, so the meter can stay where it always was, and the module can be placed somewhere where it can pick up a good mobile/wifi signal?
It's a shame they can't be connected back to the energy company with some sort of long cable. Oh wait, they are... So why the need for wireless?
Can't they run a slow (non-radiating) protocol over the existing cables - something that won't interfere with radio amateurs unlike the PowerLine Ethernet stuff that householders install and do not conform the radio standards.
Wrote :- "The meter's been [under the stairs] for decades and the house designed around that and I'll be damned to have something hanging off an exterior wall and blocking my side-alley."
They will see about that. The gas and elecricity companies have been exerting pressure for outside meters for some time, and it looks like all new build is that way. But I somehow managed to get a new gas supply with the meter inside the house, and when a reader first came he was astonished that I had been able to do that these days.
Radio reception will be the perfect excuse for them to move all meters outside - ironic as the need for meter reading should decrease.
Are they all going to be to the same standard???
Like the British Gas one fitted by the previous owner, that my current supplier, EDF cant communicate with because it doesn't work with their systems... so all it does is sit there beeping at me telling me i've overspend because it cant reset the tariffs..
Fools
Hi Kent,
There are 2 phases to the UK smart metering rollout:
- Foundation
- Mass Rollout
The Foundation phase is underway and the equipment deployed under that phase is built to a standard called SMETS1. Interoperability of meter equipment in this phase isn't great, different manufacturers are using different combinations of meters, comms gear, comms technology and headend (the bit of software that manages messaging to and from the meter). The Foundation phase is intended to be a small scale pilot that allows the industry to gain experience and roll that experience into the next iteration of standards.
The Mass Rollout phase which is due to begin towards the end of 2015 will use only equipment that conforms to SMETS2 (Equipment technical specification) and GBCS (The security specification). There is only one headend (Instant Energy from CGI) which everyone must integrate with and the communications networks are being built by Arqiva (Long Range Radio) and Telefonica (cellular and mesh).
I hope this helps answer your question.
The production of power in this country is about to drop off a cliff. If they can set limits on consumption during peak periods via these meters then I would think that would be high on their 'this is why we want these in at any cost' list.
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