back to article Microsoft's SELFIE-TASTIC Nokia 830, 730: Complete with DOG SMILE WHITENER

In the latest instalment of this year's smartphone camera gimmicks, Microsoft’s ex-Nokia division, Microsoft Mobile Devices, showed off some of its own today at the IFA show in Berlin as it refreshed its year-old Lumia midrange and gave details of the next Windows Phone platform update. Two new Nokia-branded models were unveiled …

Retreating?

"Two new Nokia-branded models were unveiled, confirming that the former Nokia phones division is beating a dignified retreat from slugging it out in the premium, $600 market."

The 930 was only launched in June, why would they announce a replacement for this model already? While it does seem odd that their phone announcements/launches are not all in sync, I don't see the lack of announcement as a retreat from the market.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Retreating?

"The 930 was only launched in June, why would they announce a replacement for this model already"

They haven't announced a replacement for the 930. But a replacement for the 1020 is rumoured to be coming very soon...

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But Will They Have Any Useful Attributes?

There appears to have been no improvement in the one single feature I need, good quality hands free with NO NEED for look and peck useless touch screens. Goodness know Nokia had it right with the 6230i years ago so I am still forced to continue with an increasingly aged phone.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: But Will They Have Any Useful Attributes?

"There appears to have been no improvement in the one single feature I need, good quality hands free with NO NEED for look and peck useless touch screens. "

Welcome to the 21st century. A Bluetooth headset is what you need...

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Re: But Will They Have Any Useful Attributes?

I'm not sure I understand. My 820 does handsfree, and does it pretty well. I think it's a standard feature.

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Re: But Will They Have Any Useful Attributes?

I have been using my 20th century bluetooth set for years with my Nokia 6230i. Sadly while useless touch phones do work with bluetooth the phones do not do what I need.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Flash/Non Flash.

"With 1.5% marketshare"

Latest figures (August 2014) seem to be 2.7% global market share for WP. Not that that's great, but somewhat better than 1.5% !

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Re: Flash/Non Flash.

"many consumers wouldn't buy a Microsoft phone anyway ... such a poor record on lies and mistruths."

Do you mean in much the same way as practically no-one in the world has a PC running a Microsoft OS?

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Re: Flash/Non Flash.

Let's take these a point at a time:

Windows Phone rot - 1.5% market share? According to IDC, it's 2.5%, and higher in the US. Even so, 1.5% is a good few handsets in its own right. It's squeezed out Blackberry, which isn't a bad performance for a platform that really is (too?) late to the party.

Nobody writes apps for that platform - OK, how about Cisco for a start, or Microsoft themselves. Maybe EA if you're into games. 120,000 apps isn't too shabby, so to say nobody is stretching it.

Consumers consider apps a must - Really? After a few games, it's mainly social media apps, email, browser and music apps. While a geek consumer may want a hundred apps to do the same job, average Joe, isn't nearly as fussed. Businesses might like to see more focused business apps.

MS has a poor record on hardware - Consumers don't currently 'see' MS hardware on phones - they see Nokia (or the odd HTC WinPho). Even if they did, poor record on hardware? MS have had the odd issue, but no worse than any other manufacturer. Look how many old MS mice there still are out there for a start.

...lies and mistruth - General consumers, again, haven't seen headlines on that area from MS in the mainstream press for sometime and they aren't so fickle anyway. If they were, more recent stores about Google's policies on information peddling would have them flocking away from Android and Chromebook, but they don't.

To close, vive la difference. If everything collapsed down to Android and a niche of iOS (now there is a declining share), where's the choice? Do we really want Google 'owning' all mobile devices in the same way MS 'owned' PCs? Why trust Google any more than MS?

Windows Phone is a worthwhile, easy to use, lean platform, even if MS haters are blinded by prejudice and Fandroids sneer. Its biggest sin? It was too late to a market already invaded by dumpster loads of cheap Android and established Apple.

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FAIL

Re: Flash/Non Flash.

Irons, Terry et. al - ignore the Google FUD-spreading A.C. troll - every time there's a thread that mentions WinPhone these days, there's a post of this nature, and I'm willing to bet it's the same person every time.

It's probably just Eadon in disguise since his real account was blocked. Or someone else whose cat got ran over by a Microsoft employee.

And to said AC - your post reads like the kind of noise that Microsoft were slated for making towards other platforms some time ago. How does it feel to become the very thing you hate?

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Jah

Market Share

In Italy, Widows Phone market share is just higher than the iPhone market share! In the UK, market share from memory is much higher than 2.5%.

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Re: Market Share

> In the UK, market share from memory is much higher than 2.5%.

Latest figures showed 9.9% from Kantar, if I recall correctly. But I have to admit that I don't quite understand those figures. If that 9.9% of all _new_ handsets sold during the last quarter, fair enough. But 9.9% of _all_ mobile phones would be a phenomenal amount in real terms and I would find that figure suspicious.

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Anonymous Coward

Do we really want Google 'owning' all mobile devices in the same way MS 'owned' PCs?

That can't happen. Android is opensource, and Google don't make phones.... The traditional manufacturers make phones, and have chosen Android as the OS to run with. This is GOOD for consumers, as the more marketshare Android gobbles up, the more phones your previously bought apps will work on.

You don;t like Samsung anymore, no problem, buy a HTC, a Sony or a LG, or whatever (anything except a Microsoft or Apple phone basically).

To try and compare this to the closed source Windows is just plain wrong.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Flash/Non Flash.

Windows phone marketshare is based on SHIPPED figures as usual, and in the case of everyone but Microsoft, the number of sold vs shipped is close. However so much unsold Windows Phone trash in the backrooms of stores around the globe, I would be surprised if the real number even breaks 1% of USERS.

Microsoft are keen for us to never ever know the real number, but when was the last time you saw anyone with a Windows Phone? I know 1 person, and he can't stand his, the camera was way overrated to how it really performs and he felt cheated.

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Re: Flash/Non Flash.

You walk around with your eyes shut then, or you don't recognise them.

Was in a café a few weeks ago and noticed the lady running it had a Lumia 920, which I thought was odd since it is so heavy and more for guys with big hands it seems.

She said she didn't like it because of the weight and wished she had a lighter one.

I said "At least it is tough", upon which she agreed since it had, I fact, been run over by a car/caravan combo just the week before.

Last week, I saw she had a new phone, an HTC M8. Oh! got a new one, Android indeed.

She said "No, Still Windows Phone, I like it ", and indeed it was, I had no idea the M8 was already available in WP format.

I presumed she didn't use the Nokia nav much because their vehicle has built in nav.

It is a light and very nice, although I couldn't give up the Nokia extras, wireless charging and the camera just to save weight, especially since it almost certainly wouldn't survive the car/caravan combo.

I see them elsewhere too, for instance, my neighbour has an 820, way, way fewer than iPhones of course, the figures for 10% in a quarter seem valid although the demographic probably includes younger people where I do not see their phones a lot.

Given that people often have phones for 3, 4 or 5 years, 10% in a quarter represents a very small percentage of ownership overall - probably 2-3% is close, at least until quite a few more quarter occurs

And, the guy saying the camera let him down must have not waited for the first update which improved the post-processing a great deal - not to mention the latest Nokia Camera app which is superb.

A post mentioned a replacement for the 1020 - drool. If it also has the fancy Flash/NoFlash facility, I will be made up. The 1020 flash is insanely powerful and the facility to use it and tone it down would be so useful.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Windows Phone is a

very buggy platform that's slow and a battery hog (thanks to it's desktop heritage, with none of the benefits).

Call me when Microsoft can make Windows Phone stream to a bluetooth speaker with having the audio chop out or the pairing lost, or when the phone doesn't reboot every other day, or the proximity sensor play up so you can't use the in-call numeric keypad or the touchscreen lose accuracy at the edges, or the platform has some apps, or the camera lives up to the hype it got prelaunch.., etc etc etc.

You have to be a really desperate Google/Apple hater to suffer Windows phone.

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Re: Do we really want Google 'owning' all mobile devices in the same way MS 'owned' PCs?

Whether the OS is open or closed is irrelevant to its' market share.

Both points you made extolling the virtues of open source Android - that the larger the market share, the more likely your device will run your apps, and that you can switch between hardware vendors and retain your applications - apply to Windows as well.

Open source is not a magic incantation that makes software immune to the laws of economics.

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FAIL

Re: Do we really want Google 'owning' all mobile devices in the same way MS 'owned' PCs?

"the more marketshare Android gobbles up, the more phones your previously bought apps will work on."

As a developer, I'd beg to differ.

Over the last year, I've been developing a game for release on iOS, Windows Phone and Android. The Android version has been nothing short of a pain-in-the-arse: I have had to add several layers of hacks and work-arounds to my latest game deal with various API versions and device types - yes, it's crazy, but I have had instances where different handsets running the same API version behave differently in situations such as resuming following incoming calls etc.

Compared to this, the iOS version has been very straightforward, with the only real effort being to get the correct iTunes rating and IAP plugged in. The Windows Phone was slightly more fiddly as 8.1 introduced some new events to handle, but again, not rocket science.

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Re: Windows Phone is a

> Call me when Microsoft can make Windows Phone stream to a bluetooth speaker with having the audio chop out or the pairing lost, or when the phone doesn't reboot every other day, or the proximity sensor play up so you can't use the in-call numeric keypad or the touchscreen lose accuracy at the edges, or the platform has some apps, or the camera lives up to the hype it got prelaunch.., etc etc etc.

How am I supposed to call you 18 months ago?

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ZSn

720

You're right the 720 was underrated. However, it was also overpriced, for only 20 to 30 quid more you could get the 820 from Tesco and didn't have to slap in an microsd card into it meaning the difference was marginal.

I need a new lumia (the old one didn't bounce) so I'll have a look at the 730.

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Holmes

Re: 720

woops sorry, I meant the 920

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possibly the effete lapdogs of California smile...

but mine snarls. Especially at anyone taking selfies.

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a53

So ........

A camera, that's good but not as good as a camera, with a built in phone. Hmm.

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On the Internet

On the internet with a Lumia, nobody knows you're a dog with yellow teeth.

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Coat

Re: On the Internet

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.

Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.

(Groucho Marx)

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I was going to get a 720 to replace my long-in-the-tooth iPhone 4. But decided I'd wait to see what the 730 was like.

I want reasonably low cost (check) and a good camera (check). Main uses are web, email, a bit of phoning, the odd mainstream app, and taking snaps of the kids.

However Nokia got rid of the shutter button, which was one of the things I liked about the 720. Though I'd heard the camera itself was a bit laggy. So, dammit, still not sure. At this rate I'll have to decide between one of the 10,000 Android handsets out there.

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It will reduce a lot from 10000 (lets face it - it is about 50 at most anyway) if you require a camera button - in fact, it may turn out that there are more Lumias than Androids available still that match that requirement.

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Losing the shutter button is a bad idea

The hardware shutter button was the main selling point when I opted for a Lumia 720.

Losing the button will make me think long and hard about replacing it with a 730 when my contract is due for renewal

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Re: Losing the shutter button is a bad idea

Doesn't the volume button now control the shutter?

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Re: Losing the shutter button is a bad idea

Does it? That'd be OK. Perhaps El Reg will give us a rundown when they get their mitts on a review unit.

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They really need to change

..that horrible UI that is a flash back to tetris. Still not seen one in the wild yet

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Re: They really need to change

The UI is the best bit about it. As a phone. Big writing, for those of us caught on the street without our reading glasses. Big buttons for same. Shame the live tiles thing still doesn't seem to work properly. Although I don't personally want anything other than notifications on those anyway.

Plus the People Hub which is better than anything Google or Apple have managed, but possibly only about as good as the new Blackberry.

The real problem is that it's still not fully polished and consistent when using the less-common bits of the OS. Also the lack of apps, which I understand is a lot better than when I used a Win Phone, but still not as good as iOS or Android.

When it comes to SatNav and using it as a phone, my old Lumia 710 is still much better than my work iPhone 5. As a mobile computer the iPhone is way better.

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