back to article Don't buy that phone! It ATTRACTS CRIMINALS, UK.gov will tell people

Home Secretary Theresa May announced this morning that the government plans to publish a mobile phone theft index to help Brits make informed decisions about what handsets to buy, based on which is the least likely to be nicked by wrongdoers. The cabinet minister revealed the proposal in a speech sploshed with pre-General …

Silver badge

How about sentences that deter this kind of theft, instead?

20
4
Silver badge

and by sentences I don't mean:

"Oi You! NO!"

11
1
Anonymous Coward

sentencing comes late on in the game

Before you get sentenced, you gotta get nicked, and then found guilty. If you know the odds of that are small...

One of West Midlands Police's main preoccupations in recent months seems to have been the difficult task of closing down hydroponics shops and securing "justice" for the owners and staff.

Meanwhile the usual alcohol-fueled violence and destruction largely continues unabated.

Evidence-based policing policy. Theresa May has probably heard of it, but the alcohol business donates lots of money to her party...

33
0
Bronze badge

And meanwhile in the real world

It only works if the risk of getting caught is high. Police are so swamped they don't have the time to follow up every phone, bicycle or laptop theft.

6
0
Silver badge
Coat

Re: sentencing comes late on in the game

"Before you get sentenced, you gotta get nicked, and then found guilty. If you know the odds of that are small..."

Aha! I knew there had to be a use for those "take photos/record audio at any time without consent" facebook app permissions had to be useful for something!

... I'll get me coat.

0
0
Silver badge

Re: And meanwhile in the real world

"It only works if the risk of getting caught is high. Police are so swamped they don't have the time to follow up every phone, bicycle or laptop theft."

Chicken and egg.

If the chance of getting caught was the same, but the sentence was, say, 100 years no parole (EXAMPLE FFS), then the weighing up of immediate gain vs the worst outcome would surely have an effect?

4
6
Silver badge

Re: And meanwhile in the real world

Yes it would mean a rise in armed robberies.

The original Great Train Robbers got 30years - to "send a message to these sort of people"

The message was, you might as well go in with a shot gun, since robbing some cash and killing a copper carried the same sentence.

12
0
Silver badge

Re: sentencing comes late on in the game

And, in the US, the oxycontin makers. Somebody has done a study and guess what, a surprising number of academics who are prepared to testify against marijuana legalisation are involved in research into prescription painkillers.

Brewers and makers of heroin substitutes. Just the people who you would think have our best interests at heart when it comes to preventing people using stuff that grows in ordinary greenhouses and requires little post-processing.

5
0
Silver badge

Re: And meanwhile in the real world

"The message was, you might as well go in with a shot gun, since robbing some cash and killing a copper carried the same sentence."

They pretty much did. The train driver never really recovered form his injuries - and that's why the sentences were so harsh, not the money.

2
1
Silver badge

Re: And meanwhile in the real world

Unfortunately evidence based crime policy (the stuff that is so unpopular with lawmakers because, Daily Mail) shows that criminals come from the following groups:

The not very bright

Drug addicts

The very impulsive

Grandiose narcissists who think they are cleverer and more important than anybody else

Psychopaths who think everybody else is a stupid sheep who only exists to be exploited.

You will readily work out that most of these people are poor at evaluating risk.

The US belief in the death penalty has strangely not reduced the murder rate to zero. You might want to think about why.

13
0

Re: And meanwhile in the real world

But all of those items are now high-ticket items (especially bike and laptop). Are our Police "service" now saying they won't even get out bed unless an item's got (say) a £5K ticket?

5
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: And meanwhile in the real world

The train driver died of leukemia several years later, at the typical age for somebody in that job at that time with that background. If you are going to hand out life sentences then the people who sold him the cigarettes he smoked.

The sentences were because it was a robbery of government money - the driver was hardly mentioned at the time.

6
0
Silver badge

Re: And meanwhile in the real world

That is a fair point.

But....

actually we need some real figures here.

Say the total who mug (and extort the PIN in the Met's recent drive) and steal a phone are X.

The breakdown of X will contain those who are in your list, but the question is, how many?

Whereas you are right that the murder rate is not zero in the US in spite of the Death Penalty, (which personally I am against - I am NOT mandating for people who steal phones, NOR am I mandating 100 years no PAROLE - that was just an absurd example to get an idea across). However, what would the murder rate be, in the US, if the sentence was 10 years. Would it be more or less? What about 5 years?

I am mortified to even be considered a Daily Mailite, my point being that if I was to go out and delibrately take a phone from somebodies open handbag, and I was subsequently caught and convicted, what would my sentence be if

A. No convictions previously

B. known but no convictions.

C. 100th time.

If the sentence at A was the same as C, would the occurence of C reduce considerably?

Stealing is considered by society is set out as morally wrong. If we had NO sanctions, then we would expect the rate to go up. If you had life imprisonment for petty theft, it would go down, though as previously mentioned it is unlikely to go to zero. SO - are the current sentencing for stealing a phone optimum for the middle ground, ie putting chance theft off? Is it the same as stealing a car? The same as stealing a Million quid? (Taking the manner aside for now, ie Armed robbery) If not, there must be a list, either written or unwritten, that states that if your item stolen is less than 10K, then we will not put the same resources in if it was a Million quid, when all other factors are equal. If this is the case, then WHY is it the case?

3
1

Re: And meanwhile in the real world

If the chance of getting caught was the same, but the sentence was, say, 100 years no parole (EXAMPLE FFS), then the weighing up of immediate gain vs the worst outcome would surely have an effect?

Do you have a single example of where higher sentencing actually deterred crime? In the US, merely possessing a drug can give you a mandatory 5 year jail term, and there are parts of the country that will literally kill you stone dead for certain crimes - do those crimes happen any less frequently? Nope.

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Phones will be stolen no matter what

Some will be sold on or used, less desirable phones will be chucked in the canal.

I can just see it now,

"Give me the phone or I'll stab you"

"Here, here take it, it's only a phone.."

"Are you takin the piss outta me? Are you takin the piss, a f*ckin Win phone sh*t Nokia?"

"It's very good please take it..."

"F*ck you! here take this.." Handing he victim a roll of notes.

"But there's £500, but.."

"Shut it, no one but no one should put up with one of those, it's criminal, go and buy yerself an iPhone, you poor deprived bast*rd"

9
2
Anonymous Coward

Re: Phones will be stolen no matter what

Nice thought.

Someone coming along to rid me of a fast, large-screen phone with a superb camera and a two day battery life so I can replace it with something like the wife's iPhone 5S (you know, small screen and a battery that barely gets her through the afternoon, but costs twice as much).

Still, who needs reality when you've got branding>

4
2
Anonymous Coward

Re: sentencing comes late on in the game

Thing is it costs £40,000 a year to keep someone locked up. They don't care about cuts or they would take notice of that. Price of a new phone and whatever pure drugs the person wants still leaves a £39,000 saving. Tell them they have 3 months to get a job or they cannot have the drugs any more they will all be in work. (And loads of money will be saved which is supposedly what they care about).

Plus it an obvious thing more cuts = more crime anyway. What they have done has achieved nothing so far.

2
0
Bronze badge

Re: And meanwhile in the real world

"The not very bright

Drug addicts

The very impulsive

Grandiose narcissists who think they are cleverer and more important than anybody else

Psychopaths who think everybody else is a stupid sheep who only exists to be exploited.

You will readily work out that most of these people are poor at evaluating risk."

Just add an expensive education at, preferably, Eton....

3
0

Re: And meanwhile in the real world

The not very bright

Drug addicts

The very impulsive

Grandiose narcissists who think they are cleverer and more important than anybody else

Psychopaths who think everybody else is a stupid sheep who only exists to be exploited.

You will readily work out that most of these people are poor at evaluating risk.

You had me until you got to narcissists and Psychopaths, you mean managers and BOFH's ?

While managers are lousy at evaluating risk, BOFH's are master at calculating Risk - then making sure the resultant risk comes true for the manager.

0
0

Re: And meanwhile in the real world

Due to the previous comment, my brain automatically blanked out 'is' in the opening sentence.

0
0
Silver badge
Joke

Theresa May announced this morning that the government plans to publish a mobile phone theft index

What, like those efficiency tables?

A <===== Least likely to be stolen.

B <==== Probably won't be stolen.

C <=== Careful now.

D <== It'll be nicked within a few days.

E <= It'll be nicked before you leave the shop.

F < And they'll have yer arm off as well.

9
0
Silver badge

I wonder if the scale is inversely proportional to how much of a beating you get from the average mugger for wasting their time when they discover how pants your phone is.

8
0
Happy

Feeling pretty smug carrying my Nokia

4
0
Silver badge
Coat

nokia carriers...

Nah, the muggers will beat you even more for carrying a phone not worth stealing. The beating is for wasting their valuable time.

3
0
Silver badge

Re: nokia carriers...

I doubt a Nexus 4 or 5 would interest these knuckle draggers.

Lets face it, they're the same kind of zombie who would queue up for 3 days before a launch... They just don't have the money.

They'll still be heading for the shiny shiny.

2
0
Silver badge

Re: nokia carriers...

But with a Nokia, you can beat them back with the phone

4
0

Re: nokia carriers...

And with a Nokia it'll still be working well enough to let you call the Fuzz to report the crime after you've used it to beat the mugger unconscious.

8
0
Silver badge

Re: nokia carriers...

Seriously, an ex-colleague was mugged for her phone and the buggers handed it back and sent her on her way. Almost sporting if it wasn't for the rather unpleasant intent in the first place.

3
0
Silver badge

Re: nokia carriers... doesn't mind the language it's the beating he don't need

"The beating is for wasting their valuable time."

Yeah but at least they can't take selfies with me and my battered face on my phone!

1
0
Bronze badge

Re : - F < And they'll have yer arm off as well.

So that includes any high street mobile phone shop selling one of their contracts then? (I just feel greasy even typing 'high street mobile phone shop').

3
0
Silver badge

Old technology?

"The most obvious and pressing example is the criminal opportunities provided by new technology."

What about old technology - trrrrrsts can wander round with a sock filled with wet sand that will be completely invisible to modern metal detectors. Or they can stab people with an undetectable icicle (thank you Father Brown - I think) or hit us with a frozen shoulder of pork (well, perhaps not the un-Islamic trrrrsts - leg of lamb?) - what is our so-called 'Home' secretary doing to protect us against old-tech trrrrrsts and crims in our homes?

4
0
Bronze badge

Re: Old technology?

Hit us with a leg of lamb? Kids today already do that. It's called "shanking".

20
0
Silver badge
Unhappy

Re: Old technology?

Sorry, can only upvote once

0
0

Lamb to the slaughter

It's been done in fiction

0
0
Silver badge
Facepalm

How about spending taxes on educating morons on being careful rather than giving ministers and lackeys the fun of pouring over useless insurance stats and playing with valuable handsets?

The number of idiots with bags wide open ( especially you ladies on the tube! ) showing all their tech goodies and wallets/purses, people staring blankly into space while holding their latest iPhone with just two fingers and the idiots who leave their phones on tables in public places while they lean over to another table to get something. Put it in your pocket! If you need to wait for a call, crank up the volume or vibrate for the next hour or two. Some ringtones are loud and obnoxious enough to wake the dead, you don't need to be fondling your phone 24 hours a day on the off chance of a call.

No not everyone is a scumbag, but it's better to be safe than sorry.

( Don't get me started on the idiots to take their cash from ATMs and just wander away waving it about for 30 seconds before putting it in their pocket! )

11
1
Silver badge

Dad? is that you?

12
0
Silver badge
WTF?

And there have been reports that they could even use "malware" to commandeer vehicle systems via satellites

Seriously?

13
0

No.

2
0
Silver badge

It was shown on the CSI, so must be true then.

7
0
Silver badge

Pirates in Space?

0
0
Silver badge

Never heard of OnStar?

That can perform several remote functions including tracking a vehicle and even slowing it down and bringing it to a stop.

I guess ACPO wants their own custom version.

Car rental companies and Repo(ssession) men also have remote stop features although they tend to use cell systems.

2
0
Silver badge

That lady on Navy CSI is hot. Is she in the stash?

0
0
Silver badge

csi

They also zoom in 2000 x on a reflection in a hubcap to capture your pin code.

4
0
Vic
Silver badge

Re: there have been reports...

> Seriously?

Yup.

Just like there have been reports of alien abduction, anal probing, and the Loch Ness Monster.

Vic.

4
0

Yeah, didn't you know? CCTV actually records high def, sends it off to the local spooks, but only gives the user a low def version..

1
0
Bronze badge

Re: there have been reports...

Well now, Nessie is real enough; just ask George Michael about a.p.; and alien abduct.... <whoosh>

0
0

Re: csi

They also zoom in 2000 x on a reflection in a hubcap to capture your pin code.

=====

I think you'll find a single pixel is sufficient :-)

0
0

Prepare for the Government to be sued...

So when Manufacturer A. starts seeing its sales take a nosedive because this mad government is telling people not to buy their phones, they won't be a teeny bit cross?

Or Manufacturer B. going "oi, Manufacturer A's phones will get you mugged, buy ours!"...

Or perhaps people just won't give a toss, like everything else this farce of a government does for our protection, it will just be ignored.

6
1
Silver badge

Re: Prepare for the Government to be sued...

To out it another way, this is a table of which phones best hold their resale value - so sales of the nickable phones will probably rocket

4
0
Devil

Re: Prepare for the Government to be sued...

But that's what TTIP is for isn't it? Should we be looking out for a raft of new laws to further hasten the transfer of taxpayers' money into private pockets?

4
0

Page:

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Forums