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back to article Snowden latest: NSA targets Gaza, pumps intelligence to Israel

According to the latest drop of leaks from NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden, the US spy agency provides financial assistance, weapons and signals intelligence to Israel. The Intercept reports that Canadian, British and Jordanian signals intelligence is also shared with Israel. This intelligence relates to Palestinian targets, …

Hmmmm

The fact that the Jordanians are supplying info to Israel [indirectly at least] shows how popular Hamas is at this time. The Arab monarchies such as Jordan and Saudi Arabia are nervous about these extremist groups as they tend not to like monarchs or secular governments.

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Re: Hmmmm

LOL!! Actually it shows that Jordan and Saudi Arabia have US/Israel controlled puppet dictators. They don't have any legitimacy with their own people. Egypt is another example. When the US/Israeli backed Mubarrak was overthrown and Morsi was elected, the Gaza/Egyptian border was immediately opened. Now the US funded Egyptian military is back in control, the border is closed again.

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Re: Hmmmm

One should remember that the expression "the enemy of my enemy is my brother" came out that area long before there was an Isreal or even a USA. Possibly before there was a Great Britain. Next month, those same allies will probably turn around and attack their "friends of today".

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Re: Hmmmm

Good to hear the NSA is at least doing 1 thing right.

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Re: Gis Bun Re: Hmmmm

<Yawn> And Greenie tries again with the Leftie Popularist bogeyman of Israel. To the US, HAMAS is a designated terrorist organisation with links both to other Sunni Islamist terror groups and Iran, and 'Palestinians' have been quote happy to travel to both Iraq and Afghanistan to attack US troops, and are currently involved with ISIS in Iraq and Syria. So anyone not expecting the NSA to be keeping an eye on them is simply too stupid for words. Sharing info with the MOSSAD is just common sense.

The Jordanians have a troubled history with the 'Palestinians'. The Jordanian monarchy were effectively the losing side of a power struggle to rule Saudi Arabia, and were given Transjordan (originally a chunk of the British Mandate territory) as a consolation prize by the British. Initially they backed the Palestinian Arabs in their attempts to eradicate the UN-mandated state of Israel, happily seizing Jerusalem and the West Bank and driving out the Jews from the area. But the Palestinian Arabs didn't complain when the Hashemites annexed the West Bank - apparently, it didn't matter as long as it was Arab Muslims doing the occupying, ethnicly-cleansing Jews and annexing 'Palestinian' land.

Then the Jordanians made the mistake (in 'Palestinian' eyes) of talking peace with Israel, so the Palestinian Arabs killed the Jordanian King Abdullah I in 1951 (and nearly got the 15-year-old Prince Hussein at the same time). From then on, despite siding with the 'Palestinians' in wars against Israel, King Hussein kept a close eye on the PLO, eventually leading to the open war between the PLO and the Jordanian Royal Forces in the Black September of 1970, when the Jordanians defeated a PLO attempt to seize control of the country. Hussein ejected what was left of the PLO to the Lebanon (where they made even more trouble for the Lebanese) and made peace with the Israelis, dashing any 'Palestinian' dream of seizing Israel by force. Since then the Jordanians have been quite happy to work with the MOSSAD on keeping the 'Palestinians' in check.

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Re: Gis Bun Hmmmm

No, Israel designates Hamas a terrorist group because Hamas stands up to Israel (same with Hezbollah). The US is run by AIPAC, and thus have to designate Hamas a terrorist group. The US then leans on the EU, which holds out for a while and then caves in to US pressure and follows suit. The other mistake you make is to talk about "The Jordanians" making peace with Israel, as though the Royals who run the country have a mandate from their population. The Royals hold power only because they do as the US/Israel tell them. In turn, the US/Israel never push Jordan to make democratic reforms. If they did, the elected leaders would stand up to Israel.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Hmmmm

> One should remember that the expression "the enemy of my enemy is my brother" came out that area [...]

Often claimed, ever proven?

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WTF?

Re: Jimal Re: Gis Bun Hmmmm

".....The US is run by AIPAC....." Are you posting from Dearborn or the Balti Triangle?

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Re: Jimal Re: Gis Bun Hmmmm

".....as though the Royals who run the country have a mandate from their population...." That's the ironic bit - the ruling family are effectively Saudi Bedouin Arabs, whereas the majority of 'Palestinians' are actually South Syrian Arabs, and the Hashemites used to raid and steal goats from the very people they were put in charge of! Even then there is the same clan issues that divide even those two main groups, with family loyalty coming before clan loyalty and then a long way before national identity. But the real start of the problem was how Jordan, just like all the Arab countries, did nothing to integrate the 'Palestinian' refugees from the 1948 and subsequent wars. Even then the Jordanians were all very happy to have a strong Jordanian leader until the PLO started rocking the boat. The Hashemites have also been trying to root out Saudi-funded Islamists like Islamic Jihad and HAMAS for years because they have learnt that they cannot trust them.

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Re: Jimal Re: Gis Bun Hmmmm

".....the US/Israel never push Jordan to make democratic reforms....." IMHO, Islam (just like any other absolutist religion) and democracy are incompatible. Look at the mess the so-called 'Arab Spring' has left across North Africa. Turkey is either going backwards or standing still, depending on how optimistic/pessimistic you are. Syria and Iraq, especially the chunk under ISIS control, faces a return to the Dark Ages. The whole region is about five-hundred years behind Europe in social development but trying to integrate modern technologies, knowledge and business practices, whilst attempting to balance the independence of thought required for the democratic process with the robotic submission require by Islam. Europe had to go through the protracted Enlightenment to throw off the yoke of the Catholic Church and get where we are now, it seems the Middle East (minus Israel) needs to do the same for Islam before there is any hope for lasting peace. Until then, I would want and expect the NSA to be working very hard to keep an eye on the Islamists.

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Re: Jimal Re: Gis Bun Hmmmm

Seeing as my prior post got rejected, I'll break it into three parts to try and work out which bit upset the PCness of El Mod.

".....Israel designates Hamas a terrorist group because Hamas stands up to Israel (same with Hezbollah)...." I assume by 'stands up' you mean 'stands behind a human shield of women, kids, and do-gooder UN personnel, to fire rockets at Israeli women and kids', right?

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Coffee/keyboard

Re: Gis Bun Hmmmm

Good post - I wonder how many of us are old enough to remember my first example of terrorism in the "Black September" actions in the early '70s. It was the first time I realized what terrorism was, as a kid. I remember seeing a passenger jet burned to a crisp, killing all aboard after a failed negotiation. No matter how justified Arabs and other Middle Eastern dwellers think they are - that image was burned into my mind, and I've never felt their cause is worth consideration, and never will. If they had taken the course that the South Africans had - they would have a cause the world could get behind - but no - they took this course of action that will only lead to death and destruction, of them as well as their enemies. It is the devil incarnate.

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FAIL

Re: Jimal Re: Gis Bun Hmmmm

".....The US then leans on the EU, which holds out for a while and then caves in to US pressure...." Too funny for words! You do realise that Europe for years was a safe-haven for many of the Islamist groups we are now fighting in Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq because of a combination of multi-culti nonsense and EU politicians wanting to show 'European independence' and thumb noses at the Yanks?

BTW, you may want to read up on the Beirut Marines barracks bombing to get an idea of why Hezbollah is designated a terrorist organisation by the US.

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I am shocked!. Absolutely Shocked!

This is hardly a surprise. The US and Israel have been pretty tight for a long time. I do have to take exception to the idea that Israel cannot mount an assault without US assistance. Anyone can randomly drop bomb.

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Re: I am shocked!. Absolutely Shocked!

Errrr. Maybe because Israel doesn't have spy satellites....

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Unhappy

Re: I am shocked!. Absolutely Shocked! "Anyone can randomly drop bomb."

Or fire an unguided rocket northwards or eastwards and points in between. Just surprised the Gaza mob hasn't hit the Palestinians in the east yet.

Hamas certainly like hiding amongst their own women and children for the propaganda when civilians are hurt by Israel targeting them. Real humanitarians who also carefully select just military targets in Israel - NOT.

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Re: I am shocked!. Absolutely Shocked! "Anyone can randomly drop bomb."

I'll give you an upvote for that. Since as far as I know, neither Hamas nor Isreal have signed the Geneva Convention, it would appear that anything goes in this war/battle. Signees agree not to target civilians or put their weapons in civilian areas. There's also bits covering treatment of prisoners, types of weapons allowed, etc.

However, with guerrilla warfare and many states/parties/groups going to war, all bets are off on the safety of civilians. I tend to believe that most folks in "civilized countries" think war is neat and tidy... it's supposed to happen out on a clear plain which becomes a field of honor. Not anymore. It's down and dirty and there's little hope for any civilian who happens to be in the crossfire. In this particular case (and couple of others ongoing) the ends don't care about the means and who's in the middle.

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Re: I am shocked!. Absolutely Shocked!

Why would they need spy-sats? They've been using RPV's and UAV's longer than anyone I can think of and the "price' for shooting down one of their manned aircraft ... just not worth going there for Hamas or anyone else in the region.

[Heck, we (US) studied the Israeli craft and techniques, not the other way around.]

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Re: I am shocked!. Absolutely Shocked!

No spy satellites, eh!? How about Ofeq 7, 8, 9 and 10? Eros A and B? Or the synthetic aperture radar spy satellite TecSAR!?

That makes 7 active Israeli spy sats!

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Re: I am shocked!. Absolutely Shocked! "Anyone can randomly drop bomb."

".."civilized countries" think war is neat and tidy.."

+a million votes if I could.

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Re: Gis Bun Re: I am shocked!. Absolutely Shocked!

".....Israel doesn't have spy satellites...." Not only do the Israelis launch satellites from their own soil, they have also used commercial services from countries like India to launch spy sats.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Space_Agency

http://en.m.wikinews.org/wiki/Israeli_spy_satellite_launched_by_Indian_rocket

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TecSAR

What they probably do not have is the taps on undersea cables that the 5i partners do have, and which the NSA can use to pick up chatter between HAMAS in Gaza and the West Bank and their leadership in places like Qatar.

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Re: I am shocked!. Absolutely Shocked!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Space_Agency

http://news.yahoo.com/israel-launches-spy-satellite-210401706.html

etc.

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Re: I am shocked!. Absolutely Shocked!

Actually Israel does have spy satellites. Just look up Ofeq with your favourite search engine.

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@ Gis Bun

I do believe I read, several years ago that Israel launched some of their own mini-sats, and now have spys in the sky as well. I don't remember the details, or if they were short lived. They do have their own space program of sorts.

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Anonymous Coward

The Soviet Propaganda Department

Back into full operation with the assistance of the useful idiots. The one rule, undermine the West.

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Re: The Soviet Propaganda Department

Which part do you assume is Russian propaganda? That Israel regularly launches attacks on Palestine or that the US provides tacit support?

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Re: The Soviet Propaganda Department

It's the selectiveness that makes it look like Soviet (oops.. Russian...) propoganda. That, and the massively one-sided "analysis" by Mr. Greenwald. No mention is given to the effects of NOT giving the Israeli's this information but there are plenty of likely scenarios such as:

- (even more) Indiscriminent bombing/shelling of supposed Hamas targets

- a reduced ability for Israel to protect itself from Hamas

- (increased) Israeli paranoia about Hamas == even greater blockades of Gaza

Each of us will make our own judgements as to whether it's worse for the intel to be given or not, my opinion is that a more scared and paranoid Israel would be a much worse thing.

To me the surprise would be if anyone was surprised that this is happening.

I'd also bet the farm that powerful intelligence agencies are supplying Hamas with information but Mr Greenwald doesn't seem too bothered by that. There aren't a lot of innocent parties in this conflict other than the civilians on both sides who are just trying to live their lives.

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Re: The Soviet Propaganda Department

A better illustration of one-sided analysis is any Fox News "debate" on the Israel/Palestine conflict.

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Re: The Soviet Propaganda Department

"Back into full operation with the assistance of the useful idiots. The one rule, undermine the West."

Obvious troll is obvious. Go ask amanfrommars how to do it properly.

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Re: phuzz Re: The Soviet Propaganda Department

Greenwald's one rule is to make a living off the gullibility of the useful idiots.

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Re: phuzz The Soviet Propaganda Department

No. His main rule is to expose abuse of power.

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US duplicity

Actually the US funds both sides, we give money to the Israelis AND we give money to the Palestinians to rebuild after the Israelis blow the crap out of them. So the Israelis are using Yankee technology to blow up stuff built with Yankee money - this actually works out quite well for the US Industrial Military Complex and their shareholders, although the American taxpayers and the Palestinians are both getting shafted.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: US duplicity

Yeah right.

Another urban myth. US does not give money to anyone.!

Politicians give declarations in front of TV cameras. Once they are gone, they don't care anymore.

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Re: US duplicity

Yes, and HAMAS happily spends every penney of it to buy rockets, rocket making materials, and build tunnels honeycombing the Gaza wall. They could care less of the welfare of their own people.

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Timing, timing

Almost good timing, just a little late, the current hostilities started a month ago and only now the documents surfaced?

Did it take so long to find the documents? Or to cook them?

Just kidding, I don't see that somebody will bother for such well known secrets.

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Mushroom

Re: Timing, timing

So what would lack of support from the NSA stop exactly? Is anyone stupid enough to suggest that the Israelis would not defend themselves without NSA satellite photos or whatever else they're supposed to be talking about here. If anything, this might allow the entire process to be less haphazard.

Although Hamas rocket sites seem to be pretty much anywhere and they like to surround UN sanctuaries with mortar positions. So I am not sure what help extra intel would be anyways.

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Hardly news, but perhaps a sign.

Obviously, allies co-operate against enemies (especially aggressive, self-declared genocidal ones). This 'news' is about the routine, expected and accepted behaviour of intelligence agencies.

Formerly, Snowden's reveals have been about the non-accepted behaviour of intelligence agencies: dragnet-style surveillance sweeping up the private lives of ordinary citizens, lack of transparency and accountability, hacking foreign telcos, spying intrusively on allies and that sort of thing.

So this latest reveal is maybe a sign that there isn't much more news to tell (which is fine ... what has been said already has started the necessary political conversations), and we're now scraping the bottom of the barrel. Or he's been duped into using his power to have his $0.02 on a geo-political situation he's not in favour of. Or he's not actually fully in control of what 'he' says anymore. Either way, this reveal does little to credit his integrity as a source.

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Re: Hardly news, but perhaps a sign.

"Or he's been duped into using his power to have his $0.02 on a geo-political situation"

He hasn't revealed or leaked anything for a long time, any more than Colonel Sanders is still making chicken. The timing of the current leaks is down to press, journalists, and other people who have these documents.

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Who cares .... death to hamas, gaza, palestine.

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Linux

223 years of the democratic-republican party democtatorship, USA

Sure NSA and GCHQ love us, Snowden should be imprisoned without trial and kept naked like Bradley Manning. This is real democracy.

Snowden is a liar and a propagandist, in fact he didn't steal anything, and NSA statements about the hunt for him, capturing journalists - it's all a joke.

There is no such organization as NSA, and do not be paranoid, buy a new phone with fingerprint scanner.

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I object to my taxes being used for purposes beyond governing my own country, or defending us proportionately from genuine external threats. Our government should not be backing sides in foreign conflicts unless one side poses a real threat to us. Hamas are a threat only to Isreal because Israel has relentlessly colonised Palestinian land, and ethnically cleansed Palestinians from it. Given the hundreds of Palestinian civilians killed in this most recent conflict who were deliberately targetted by the Israeli military, the Israelis are more befitting of the accusation of terrorism than Palestinians. If the Palestinians were real terrorists they wouldn't waste their efforts lobbing ineffective rockets at Israel's Iron dome.

In light of the continuing atrocities perpetrated by Israel, why do so many of our political representatives consistently vote to support Israel and belong to Israeli affiliated groups? Isn't it time to expose them as supporters of terrorism?

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The Rhienland, 1936

Had France acted preemptively (with cause; violation of the Versailles treaty provision demilitarizing the Rhineland) millions of deaths, and adverse consequences that resound to this day might have been avoided.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Rhineland_1936.htm

Short-sighted wins elections at the price of the future.

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It is certainly PORTRAYED as committing atrocities. But "atrocities" implies intent, and it is not and has not BEEN Israel's intent to kill noncombatants, it is just that Hamas (in violation of the Geneva conventions) deliberately uses noncombatants and protected institutions and activities to hide behind and conceal their presence..

From

http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/07/israel-warns-civilians-to-stay-out-of-harms-way-hamas-sends-them-back-in/

" Hamas is engaged in a war crime: bringing innocents into the line of fire. This is a major story that important newspapers are reporting but their analysts are missing this and, instead, faulting Israel!

Hamas using human shields and brags about it as MEMRI shows here."

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How dare you...

...to tell me the FACT that "US owes a moral obligation to Israel" is nothing but propaganda? What are you gonna lie about next >> that "Israel is not the most trusted partner and strongest ally of US"?

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Happy

Meanwhile, Angela has some explaining to do....

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28819625

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