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back to article YouTube will nuke indie music videos in DAYS, says Google exec

Google will nuke its bridges with independent record labels and pull their music videos from YouTube, the advertising giant has told its favourite newspaper – the Financial Times. The dispute is over royalty terms for Google's forthcoming and as-yet unannounced music-streaming service, believed to be a Spotify clone. Two weeks …

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Anonymous Coward

There's a lot that I don't understand and this is fitting in quite nicely with my norm, so let me get this straight;

People (including record label types) have been putting music videos on YouTube. Google wants to remove the music videos that belong to the independent record labels because they (the labels) aren't willing to sign an agreement with Google which gives Google the right to charge users for the music while giving to the independent labels less than they are giving to the major record labels. And they are doing this now that they have become the dominant player in the streaming video market which means they are effectively shafting the independents sideways.

If that's what it's all about, what happened to not being evil and all that?

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"If that's what it's all about, what happened to not being evil and all that?"

Google have no reason to live by the "don't be evil" moniker ever since they beat Microsoft in the search engine market, browser market, mobile phone market, online word processing market, etc etc. It was used at the time to make them look better than Microsoft. Google now can pretty much do whatever they like now, because you know as well as I do the great unwashed never "search for things on the internet" they "Google it" instead.

Screw Google. Screw them right between the o's.

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Sounds like

"That's a nice independent label you've got there, it would be such a shame if something happened to it"

Monopolies are OK according to the law in most places provided you do not abuse that position. I would say the indie labels have a case

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FAIL

... and yet...

... you still have people on here - people who I can only assume are reasonably tech savvy - running round praising Google to the hilt and taking a swipe at Microsoft at every possible opportunity, just due to a massive two-decade-old chip on their shoulder...

If the tech community of all people can't put the past behind them and see what the future holds, what hope does the great unwashed have?

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Re: ... and yet...

Too true.If I say anything critical of Google on this site it gets a bunch of thumb downs. Personally I've not clicked a YT video link in the last 18 months. I've posted anything to YT in about 5 years. When I wanted to upload a video of a band I record live recently I hosted the damn thing myself.

--

They have been inserting little memes in everybody's mind. So Google's shills can shriek there whenever they're inclined

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Anonymous Coward

Re: ... and yet...

You have a signature that basically calls anyone that disagrees with your crap a Google shill, and still complain you get downvoted?

I even thought that calling other commentards shills was against register policy, but apparently all is allowed if it is to take a swipe at google.

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Coat

Re: ... and yet...

I even thought that calling other commentards shills was against register policy, but apparently all is allowed if it is to take a swipe at googleMicrosoft.

FTFY.

But it's true - Google do not have shills. Shills get paid. Google just have people they've brainwashed.

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Big Brother

You there! Stop listening to interesting music!

It's distracting you from all the mind-numbing dross, backed by proper money.

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Oh good, so it's gonna be just <pop tartlet du jour> and <ageing rock "icon"> from now on.

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Don't forget..

"Oh good, so it's gonna be just <pop tartlet du jour> and <ageing rock "icon"> from now on."

And endless Mars and Twix ads.. It's the Interwebz. Your stuff is free so we'll make money from it!

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Don't forget 'teenage male singing generic love song about unnamed girl.'

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Happy

Don't forget 'teenage male singing generic love song about unnamed girl.'...steady now, let's see...

Don't forget 'foetus posing as teenager singing generic love song, written for them by balding 30 year industry song writing veteran with 400 other song credits and royalty cheques that would make you weep, singing about other unnamed teenager younger than them of course as they won't sing about real life where people of all ages fall for each other'

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Alert

An opportunity for the competition

YouTube are not the only service in this field, even if they might think they are. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_video_hosting_services>. This could get interesting.

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Re: An opportunity for the competition

Nice thought.... but most of them are already dead. Since this article was posted, one more (Pixorial) announced it's shutting down. Vimeo, Metacafe, Dailymotion, and Clowdy are about the only ones left in the running, and that's quite a stretch.

If all you care about is the music, sites like BandCamp and SoundCloud and Jamendo are competitive with Youtube.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: An opportunity for the competition

There is usually much more interesting stuff on Vimeo though to be fair to them. Just a shame their search facility sucks and Google doesn't appear to index them.

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Anonymous Coward

This is good...

Because I really want to listen to more shite from the likes of Psy & Snoop!

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Black Helicopters

I hate...

The internet for what it is becoming. Once again, the money grubbing corporates have figured out a way to stiffle innovation.

The time is now for a wireless mesh internet that no one person or group can control.

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Boffin

Re: I hate...

Rubbish.

They may *think* they have done so, but the really, really nice thing about the Internet is that it is supremely good at bypassing the middle-man. Sure, the sheep will continue to use YouTube without questioning any changes to the content, but the rest of us can do what we like, discovering excellent new music direct from the bands, and from our friends and family by personal recommendation.

GJC

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Re: [time for ] a wireless mesh internet that no one person or group can control.

Don't worry, as soon as that mesh is in place, someone will be wanting to control it. And they will find a way.

No, the answer never is in doing away with the existing to create something new that will fail in the same way.

The answer always is in fighting the rot and making sure the rot does not take over. In this case, the indie labels should band together and create their own service. Yes, it is complicated, yes it will cost them, but they're shafted anyway so might pay for the right thing.

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JDX
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Re: I hate...

YouTube isn't the internet, it's a private website backed by a mind-blowingly large and expensive infrastructure.

So while it's inconvenient we can't use one site for all music videos, Google are under no compulsion to host any videos they don't want to host.

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Anonymous Coward

Embrace <independent music>, Extend <access to wider audience>, Extinguish <cos you won't pay us protection money>.....

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Big = evil?

Although Google's informal motto is, "Don't be evil," it seems that as companies grow large, they grow corrupt. The latest has been Amazon's attempt to squash publishing houses, and Google is squashing independent music labels.

What this really means is that publishers need to ditch Amazon, and all artists need to ditch YouTube. When whatever alternates they land on get too big and become evil, then those get ditched and the artists move someplace else.

And this also means that all of the "users," i.e., self-created data content that is mined and sold by Google, needs to move along with the artists. If you want Google to be poor, stop using Google and block Google's JavaScript and cookies in your browser. But of course Google will continue on unimpeded.

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Re: Big = evil?

Don't be (caught being) evil.

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Re: Big = evil?

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely"?

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Devil

Re: Big = evil?

Careful...

... or you will be accused of complaining to your friends by one of the Google faithful - under an anonymous coward post, natch...

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"The big labels offer independents a much lower royalty rate, among other things."

Is that exactly what you meant? Did you not mean that Google was offering a lower rate to independents than majors?

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Anonymous Coward

This is the 21st century

Why can't someone else just create a video sharing site? Okay it'll maybe not ever be as big as Youtube, but something like lots of indies clubbing together should be able to get a few servers worldwide. Or, using Bittorrent, they might not even need that many servers except as a seed.

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Don't Be Evil

Remember the days when the googlistas and googlefans were falling over themselves to worship google because of that mantra?

Funny how they are so quiet these days now that google is showing it is perfectly happy to fully embrace evil (as it has always done) when it can make a few billion bucks.

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Re: Don't Be Evil

Remember the days when the googlistas and googlefans were falling over themselves to worship google because of that mantra?

And on which planet did this occur? It certainly wasn't Earth.

Though I do remember Google getting much praise over a no-nonsense search engine that works.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Don't Be Evil

Or how Android was somehow better because it was "open". Quite frankly I have yet to meet someone who has side-loaded anything on their phone, but then I hardly leave my mother's basement...

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Re: Don't Be Evil

"Though I do remember Google getting much praise over a no-nonsense search engine that works."

Worked. It has been 'improved' to the point that it's no longer as good as it once was.

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Re: Don't Be Evil @ Buck

Well, we haven't technically "met", but I sideload regularly. Admittedly, it is only AdBlock Plus which isn't allowed on the Play store (adblockplus.org/blog/adblock-plus-for-android-removed-from-google-play-store), but at the open nature of Android means I can get around Google's edict.

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Re: Don't Be Evil

" I have yet to meet someone who has side-loaded anything on their phone"

You should get out more and meet more people! ;-)

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Youtube is only worth the content it hosts

I wonder if the indies can make more for suing Youtube for hosting their content without an agreement than they can if they enter into an agreement with Youtube?

Meanwhile they upload their videos onto a rival video service and work out an agreement with Spotify (or rival service) over streaming. If they build it people will come.

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Scumbags

Don't be evil - bollocks.

I used to like Google.

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JDX
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Re: Scumbags

What you mean when they gave you every service you could want for free? Interesting how when they're killing off the competition to give you something you want for free, they're "good" but the moment what they offer you isn't what you want, or you have to pay, they're "evil".

But you, wanting to listen to all those music videos without paying anyone, are "good".

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YouTube... The new MySpace.

RIP.

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Trollface

"YouTube... The new MySpace."

If YouTube MySpace, weirdo, you're going to regret the day you were born.

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Classical

What about all the classical music, often historical performances, that individual people have been uploading? Is that going to start disappearing as well?

A couple of favourites...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3tmFhrOgNk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbJtHzaFpBQ

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SVV

Whilst a big fan of independent music.....

....... after all I prefer a bit of imagination and originality in my listening, this seems to have been coming for quite some time. So, the indie labels need to work together (they already have their own trade association, see http://www.musicindie.com/home) and set up their own service : IndieTube or something. Then YouTube can get the reputation as a home for nothing more interesting than cat videos and major label pap and it'll become a lot less cool than it was and may have just aimed a (very tiny) bullet into its' own foot.

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Re: Whilst a big fan of independent music.....

But, based on previous form, unless your IndieTube is set up exactly right from the outset, it will get successful enough for Google or similar to notice it, buy it (because the owners get currency signs before their eyes and agree to sell), then kill it. Rinse and repeat.

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Stop

Wrong.

Just wrong.

I can see this badly backfiring.

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Devil

Costs of hosting?

I'm not sure of the whole story here, but isn't part of this about covering the costs of hosting all this mindless drivel that the consumers are watching?

Google now owns YouTube, and paid unholy amounts of money to do so. They also pay for server upkeep, server overhead, bandwidth, etc... Now the various music labels are getting effectively free hosting of their promo footage in the form of music videos that only a few years ago you would have had to pay to see on M-TV or the like, on top of paying for cable TV, possibly a premium cable package to boot.

Please explain why it's wrong to expect that those who are making money off of the screen time shouldn't be expected to possibly share a bit of the load, or at least a bit of the profits coming from the effectively 'free' hosting?

I know that most of the lol-cat crowd are not paying anything or gaining any revenue, though some do through their advertising links, but the businesses whose entire revenue model is centered on internet video just might need to keep in mind that bandwidth intensive video streaming does cost someone, and that they might just end up getting stuck with part of the expense.

All in all, just my looking at this as the Devil's Advocate...

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Um... Guys?

Your value is not the adverts that you show. I can understand why you make this mistake, because you get paid for advertising and stuff. But we are not you. The value of your service, to us, is not advertising, it is the content. Like commercial TV, advertising is something we will put up with in order to get to the content.

And now, you are looking like you are wanting to kick off some content because the creators want to be paid a little more than you have decided they're worth.

Smart move.

Real smart.

Now...what was my Vimeo password again?

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edits required

"While we wish that we had 100 per cent success rate, we understand that is not likely an achievable goal and therefore it is our responsibility to our users and the industry shareholders to launch the enhanced music experience in time for filing quarterly financials."

Fixed now.

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Fine

Dailymotion. Vimeo. Flickr. Metacafe. Veoh. Imeem.

This is your big chance, fellas. Even good old MySpace has an opportunity for a renaissance here.

YouTube will become socially declassé if it starts carrying on like this. In an age where everyone is trying to be individual and different, flocking like sheep to YouTube will soon become seen as simply following the flock, if you see my meaning. Especially once word spreads about how only mainstream corporate trash is allowed on there.

Yes, we may well be Google's "products". However, unlike traditional boxed products, these "products" can jump off the shelves and walk away. Take note, you greedy bastards.

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Re: Fine

I think you overestimate the sensibilities of the average Internet user. Unless the other video websites you mention get a significant edge on Youtube feature wise, I cannot see a massive transfer of users happening.

There are ample amounts of people who put up with corporate trash on TV, radio and yes on the Internet too. It is actually quite amazing what people put up with when they think they use a superior service or product (e.g. Farcebook, Gmail, Flash, etc...)

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High handed google again!

Google pulling the strings again, calling the tune now after taking our pics 2 yrs ago!

It was a nasty surprise to me to loose my pics on Picasa when big bad Google pulled them all!Think it was because I left Youtube. Now Google is throwing it's weight around pulling music and depriving more folk of enjoyment for an extra buck, by the look of things.

When Google shut down my Picasa I lost cherished, irreplaceable photos of my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren, my youngest son's pics from the Olympics and beloved pets no longer with me. Now Google is acting high handed again and pulling music. I access Youtube for some great music which Google doesn't care if folks watch and hear or not! It's a service too Google give or loose your supporters/customers.

When the evenings draw in again I shall be working on getting rid of all things Google, possible, on my computers and protecting what I cherish and enjoy! Google you upset a lot of older folk with your heavy handed ways, we aren't used to being treated so rough and we won't by standing by and be treated in such underhanded ways or seeing others walked over! Support the up and coming young musicians and all that is good in music not the extra "buck" as they say in US.

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