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back to article Tech talk bloke compares girlfriend to irritating Java tool – did he deserve flames?

A programmer was given a right shoeing on Twitter and various blogs for a classy move at a tech event – comparing Apache Maven to a beautiful-but-annoying girlfriend. Jonathan Doklovic, principal developer at software-maker Atlassian, made the comments while giving a thrilling talk about plugins at the AtlasCamp 2014 in Berlin …

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He is giving a talk about mavern

does he even have a girlfriend? He is a computer nerd giving a talk to other computer nerds, has he even popped his cherry? I wonder how many women would laugh if someone said that after the slide went viral... or would have made such a comment themselves... just as bad.

It is stupid, and wasn't that funny, and yeah.... I have trouble believing he has a girlfriend... but it was a joke, a bad one, but still a joke... keep the reaction in proportion!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

Well since he's giving a talk, he's most likely at least moderately successful and self secure.

Meaning there's a good chance he does have a girlfriend.

Heck, I'm a shy computer nerd and have an attractive wife and two kids myself.

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Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

"He is a computer nerd giving a talk to other computer nerds, has he even popped his cherry? I wonder how many women would laugh if someone said that after the slide went viral.. " -probably none, its not really a very good joke...

"or would have made such a comment themselves... just as bad." - again probably none.. talking about computer geeks sexual provess or the stereotypical lack thereof if usually the domain of non-tech guys.

"It is stupid, and wasn't that funny, and yeah.... I have trouble believing he has a girlfriend... but it was a joke, a bad one, but still a joke... keep the reaction in proportion!" - you list negative stereotypes, then lament the people that would laugh at such negative stereotypes.. then go on to assert those very same negative stereotypes yourself?

your post confuses me :S

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He definitely has a girlfriend because his analogy is spot on.

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Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

Try rereading it... I can't help it if you can't understand what I was saying. The first points I made were to make a point, the latter ones were my own views... nothing confusing there

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Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

> Heck, I'm a shy computer nerd and have an attractive wife and two kids myself.

me too ;)

My joke about me finding it hard to believe was tongue-in-cheek... I'm sure he does have a GF/BF. I respect anyone that can get up on a stage and talk in front of a load of people... I hate doing that, I know it takes a certain kind of person to be able to do that, and that is not me.

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Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

I did read it several times before I posted, to try to understand what you were saying.. even after reading it again now it still seems to be

1. this was not a good joke as it plays on certain stereotypes, which is bad

2. if hypothetical women laugh at him because he is a virgin because he works with computers (stereotype), then that is just as bad as the joke he told

3. your own view is that the joke is bad because it is full of stereotypes, and that he doesn't have a gf because he works with computers.

to be honest not all my posts make sense all the time either, sometimes stuff I say or type doesn't come out the way I meant it to; your post just seems contradictory... maybe you meant it to come out differently?

edit: just read your third post.... I think maybe the issue here might be that sarcasm doesn't translate well into ASCII...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: He is giving a talk @RISC OS

Don't be so defensive, stand by your comments, be a man.

So you are never going to be a comedian, but hey it's not the end of the world.

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Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

"Heck, I'm a shy computer nerd and have an attractive wife and two kids myself."

Way to go, AC. How about, "a wife I love," or some other quality of your relationship together rather than the fact that your wife is attractive?

That's what really get people like me angry (actually, I don't feel anger, just despair) that blokes still think of women as trophies; rather than partners who they love dearly and are proud of them for who they are.

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Re: He is giving a talk about mavern @msknight

Sorry, I think YOU are the problem here.

The statement was that he has an attractive wife and two children. Nothing more nothing less. If you read anything else in to that then you are trying way too hard to be PC, and need to lighten up a bit. I find nothing wrong with his statement - it doesn't objectify, it compliments.

I'm in a similar position, with an attractive partner and three children. And since you seem so keen on it, I love them all dearly. But did you really need to know that? No, because I regard it as implicit.

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Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

And thank you both for confirming that men think that attractiveness is a good reasons for getting married, above love, affection, dedication, devotion, etc., etc. ... it is YOUR problem, and it is sad that women are having to suffer the results of this crap.

And don't bring fifty shades in to it; that is a pile of ficticious rubbish. The BDSM scene in general has slated that work as being completley un-representative codswallop.

You've been caught, red handed, and of course I'm going to get a thumbs-down battering.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: He is giving a talk about mavern @msknight

Because women never judge anyone else (male or female) by their appearance. They also do not judge people on their clothes, hair, make up, etc.

I don't know what planet you are on, but it must be very lonely. Or hypocritical. Probably not both though.

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Re: He is giving a talk about mavern @msknight

@AC - we're talking about our spouses here. Nice try to shift the focus, but sorry, that ain't working. You aren't going to devalue the discusison that way.

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Trollface

Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

"blokes still think of women as trophies; rather than partners who they love dearly and are proud of them for who they are."

Does that mean you favor men who want several women as partners?

Moreover, you express what *you* want in men, and assume that most "blokes still think of women of trophies". This is so degrading for men!

No, I'm not nagging. Or maybe just a bit ;)

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dv

Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

Really? You just said that negative stereotypes make bad jokes? Do you realize that the overwhelming majority of jokes are based on stereotypes?

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Joke

Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

It's the register.... the more mark downs you get the more right you were ;)

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FAIL

Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

Isn't this assumption "he's a nerd, and probably a virgin" just as bad stereotypically as the (joke?) prejudices displayed by the original presentation?!

Personally I think it was a bit of a lame attempt to present a humorous take on some software, but to avoid this sort of broohaha in future maybe EVERYONE, male female, and anything else you wish to declare yourself as, should try to step away from generalisations and stereotypes a bit more? Tricky to do though since categorisation and attendant assumptions are an inherent part of how we experience and manage the world.

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Happy

@AC 4 Hrs ago (Re: He is giving a talk about maven)

"I'm a shy computer nerd and have an attractive wife and two kids myself."

Two kids?

Not all that shy, then.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

"thumbs-down battering"

yeah, why not, since you ask so nicely and in this day and age being nice costs but a click, there you go!

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Joke

@Risc OS

"does he even have a girlfriend? He is a computer nerd giving a talk to other computer nerds, has he even popped his cherry?"

I think the real question is if he still has a girlfriend after all this ;)

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Happy

Re: @AC 4 Hrs ago (He is giving a talk about maven)

" Two kids?

Not all that shy, then."

Twins maybe?

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Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

Utterly ludicrous story. It was a harmless joke but that isn't the point. These Twitter busy-bodies choose to be offended in order to undermine the free speech of others. The only thing they care about is censoring anybody who expresses an opinion not on their recommended list. They must be all told to foxtrot-oscar, loudly, regularly, until they understand that we have freedom of expression, bought at very great expense by the last generation and to be passed intact onto the next.

"We are going through all the events that allowed this slide to reach the public"

translation: "oh no! sorry! we will censor these opinions as quickly as possible!"

Says TarahWheelerVanVlack:

Don't apologize b/c I'm offended. Apologize because you were wrong.

No. Don't apologize at all. Instead tell the self-appointed censors how repugnant you find their attempt to muzzle free speech, on today of all days.

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Happy

He definitely hashad a girlfriend because his analogy is spot on.

FTFY

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Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

And thank you both for confirming that men think that attractiveness is a good reasons for getting married, above love, affection, dedication, devotion, etc., etc. ... it is YOUR problem, and it is sad that women are having to suffer the results of this crap.

Erm, where did either one say anything about attractiveness being good (or any for that matter) reason for getting married over anything?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

He's definitely talking about my boyfriend .. Except I would use the word 'handsome', not beautiful

Damn. Have I just confused the stereotypes?.

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Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

This is why I don't understand all the commotion about this. As you've pointed out, other than swapping handsome for beautiful the statements are not gender specific. Had it been a woman presenting this slide comparing Maven to her boyfriend would anyone have cared? I doubt it.

Much ado about nothing, yet again

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Linux

Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

Then get ready to really start foaming at the mouth.

Not only is my wife hot, she's also smarter than you and makes more money than you do.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

I know you are, but what am I? Nyer nyer ne nyeerrr nyerrrr!

I'm rubber, you're glue. Bounces off me and sticks to you. Nyerrrrr!

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Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

"And thank you both for confirming that men think that attractiveness is a good reasons for getting married, above love, affection, dedication, devotion, etc., etc. "

Anyone who thinks looks don't come into the equation is either extremely naive or feck ugly and hoping its not true.

"nd it is sad that women are having to suffer the results of this crap."

And who made you spokesmen for all women? Just because you pretend to be one (yeah , I've googled you) doesn't make you one. We can all play lets-pretend , doesn't change reality. So how about you STFU and let the real women defend themselves, not some piss poor fascimile.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

Er... if you're not attracted to your partner in some meaningful ways (eg mentally, physically, emotionally, whatever), then you're flat out doing it wrong.

Also, it sounds like you have a pretty limited understanding of what "attractive" means. :(

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Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

And thank you both for confirming that men think that attractiveness is a good reasons for getting married, above love, affection, dedication, devotion, etc., etc. ... it is YOUR problem, and it is sad that women are having to suffer the results of this crap.

Hang fire.... If I had a face like Brad Pitt rather than a well slapped arse, I'd have enjoyed even more success with women in my younger days. That's just a fact. Beauty is an attractive trait and it appeals to women every bit as much as men.

Were I hung like a horse rather than a macaque, I'd possibly have enjoyed still more feminine attentions. But you get what you get and you look how you look. If its good, great, if its unfortunate then its just a challenge to be overcome.

That said, I love my (hot) wife for all the reasons you give and many more besides. I didn't marry her because of her looks (lets face it, when people get old they stop looking pretty) but I see nothing wrong in recognising that I'm very happy with her physical appearance. Why is it ok to prize loyalty or sense of humour but suddenly somehow wrong to appreciate aesthetics?

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Bad poll questions.

There is no answer but "mu", as polled. Consider:

"On a slide titled "Marco is my boyfriend", she presented a number of bullet points that compared the Java build tool to a lover. Here's her reasoning:

Looks handsome

Complains a lot

Demands my attention

Interrupts me when I'm working

Doesn't play well with my other friends"

Mountains, molehills, so-called "social" networking. Do the math.

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Re: Bad poll questions.

Perhaps another change that would have given interesting results is to start off with "Maven is my partner".

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Re: Bad poll questions.

Yup, mountain out of molehill...

My first thought was, what if that was a women doing it about her boyfriend, I bet there would be no reaction.....

How many comedians do you see make jokes about their other halves? loads...

This is no big deal unless your too sensitive...

These tweets bring up images of man hating women with a chip on their shoulder...

It is all political correctness gone mad....

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Mushroom

Re: Bad poll questions.

"""My first thought was, what if that was a women doing it about her boyfriend, I bet there would be no reaction....."""

Of course there will be a reaction, they will laugh, something it is apparently forbidden the other way around.

""This is no big deal unless your too sensitive..."""

Nope, it is a big deal if you're a stupid attention seeking @!$#?%!!!

Remember Political Correctness is going to doom us all.

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Re: Bad poll questions.

You got it wrong,

Second line should be "Farts a lot"

Fourth line should be "Pervs on my other friends"

There fixed it for ya. ;)

Now if a woman said that on stage I would applaud her and get the joke!

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FAIL

Re: Bad poll questions.

On Bad poll questions...

Page 1:

- It's not even a joke: it's offensive, to Maven

(I assume that is what most of the current 120 votes are for)

Page 2, missing options

- His experience of girlfriends.

- His experience of Maven.

- It's a joke the comparison was facetious

Seriously; atrocities in Egypt, Syria, Palestine, people so poor they give away their children and kill themselves in Greece; how many other hideous things on this planet and people exercise their outrage on this? Grow up.

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Anonymous Coward

Hehe...

Read the guy family name. He is literally doing search/replace with Mavern on an old Balkan running gag existing in all Balkan languages - I have heard it plenty of times in Bulgarian and Serbian.

The really funny bit is that the industry there is way _LESS_ sexist than in US or UK. If you are having a conversation with a sysadmin or software developers you are 10 times more likely to have it with a woman compared to US/UK. Also, if you do a joke like that down there in front of one of these geek ladies they will pay back using similar humor with 100% interest instead of calling HR or leaking it to the Daily Mail.

Alternatively, if you really cross the line, you will understand why any one of us who have worked with people from that part of the world thinks that Alice from Dilbert is Serbian (especially the fist of death bit).

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Re: Hehe... and Vivacious Viral IT Players .... Great Game Masters .... Mega Meta Data Blasters

Yes, AC, the East [Erotic and Exotic and Erratic and Explosive] has a lot to teach the West [Wild and Wacky and Wicked and Wondrous] that it and its IT needs to learn and smarter enable and implement/run.

Does the West not realise, that if they don't listen and engage with that which they need to be engaged with and listened to, does all the smarter capital which is not just QE confetti and ruinously sweet sticky pseudo confectionary, fly to the East where it can be used to better beta exploit to beneficial advantage the arrogance and ignorance on display westwards and in prime time, sub-prime action.

Such aint rocket science, but only a natural progression and greater common sense migration from a stagnant petrified state to vibrant virile community.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Hehe... and Vivacious Viral IT Players .... Great Game Masters .... Mega Meta Data Blasters

what a cool and sensible comment. If it would not be so long I would print it on a t-shirt

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Re: Hehe...

Interesting the middle east seems to have plenty of female Dev's as well - being a male dominated industry does just seem to be a western thing.

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Paris Hilton

"Way to get down on women"

The quintessence of the modern "liberal".

0) Find a syntactically valid string involving women, differently abled persons and/or the minority du jour, if not something that has vaguely to do with not sufficiently socialistic economic systems.

1) Generalize

2) Find that generalization implies that this other person™ is not as holy, wholesome, generous, white-knighty and/or open-minded as oneself (of course!).

3) TO THE SOAPBOXTWEET

Bonus question:

What would have happened if the guy were replaced by LA LESBIAN PROGRAMMEUSE?

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Anybody who gives a flying fuck what the collective festering cesspit that is the "twittersphere" thinks needs to re-evaluate their priorities.

Basically, if you are not upsetting that mass of drooling luvvies and assorted grief-mongers then you are not trying hard enough.

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Well, Atlassian certainly couldn't bear it... Suckers.

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My wife liked it

I tested it on my wife and read it out (after explaining some stuff about technology) and she laughed about it.

Guess some still do have a sense of humor

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Re: My wife liked it @Mr C

Your wife must be really easy to please!

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Re: My wife liked it @Mr C

Nothing wrong with that.

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