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back to article PC makers! You, between Microsoft and the tablet market! Get DOWN!

So, the new Surface Pro is here – number three. According to Microsoft folklore Redmond gets things right by version number three of a new product, it then kills off the competition and history is written. But it seems unlikely that the Surface Pro 3 will be remembered as the iPad Air or Android killer of Microsoft's tablet …

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  1. jb99

    Probably good

    I got a surface pro 1 recently at a bargain price because it's obsolete and to be honest was way more impressed than I expected to be. I'm taking this a lot more seriously than I would have done and might be tempted to upgrade to one.

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    1. JDX Gold badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Probably good

      Someone I know who does MS stuff got the same model for testing stuff out and was similarly impressed.

      Technically it sounds pretty slick - especially getting the weight and thickness down - and at 12" I think is a viable ultrabook in its own right. But it's clearly not going to be a mass-market product like the iPad because it's way over-powered and overpriced for the mass-market (not overpriced for what it is, but overpriced for what people want to spend). Ultrabooks are not mass-market as they are so pricey but I could certainly see this being the go-to executive toy. However as the article says that's at the expense of other ultrabooks, MS are stealing existing Windows customers.

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      1. Danny 14
        Reply Icon

        Re: Probably good

        I have a dell venue 7 and 5x venue 10s, we got them as evaluation models. The 7 is a bit meh but the 10 is pretty good. If the fold up keyboard had USB ports (and a network port) it would have been really good.

        We have a docking station for the 10 which basically turns them into desktop machines. They can be imaged successfully too (the bios needs a few settings changed first). Runs all our apps nicely.

        if the pro 3s are as good then i'll certainly get a few.

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        1. mmeier
          Reply Icon

          Re: Probably good

          Depending on use case the S/Ps are better since they have a working stylus (Wacom, NTrig)

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  2. Gotno iShit Wantno iShit

    2160x1440 12"

    3:2 screen ratio - hallelujah! Someone at last understands that business users don't watch DVDs all day so a 16:9 screen would be inappropriate. Bravo Microsoft.

    Now, can we have that on a proper laptop please?

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    1. Robert Matiuk
      Reply Icon

      Re: 2160x1440 12"

      Damn straight, just don't understand this infatuation with widescreen beyond TVs. 16:10 seems to be the best you can do on laptops...

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  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The form factor is OK, but at the end of the day it's got Win8 on it.

    24 7
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Win8 is fine for small form factor and touch. It sucks donkey cock when it's on a big-screen non-touchy environment.

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      1. Hellcatm
        Reply Icon

        I'm using Windows 8.1 update 1 on a dual monitor PC and it works fine for me. I don't see where you're having issues except for maybe just looking at it and not giving it a fair try.

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        1. Tom 35
          Reply Icon

          So am I

          I am one of the lucky people who get to test stuff on Windows 8.1, what ever they call the current version.

          Once I kill as much of not-Metro as possible, it's not bad. But if they took not-Metro out back and put a bullet in it's head it would only be better.

          One of the problems with Windows has always been the way settings seem to be scattered at random, Win8 made that twice as bad.

          Don't much want IE, and now I have two of them.

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        2. VinceH
          Reply Icon

          "I'm using Windows 8.1 update 1 on a dual monitor PC and it works fine for me. I don't see where you're having issues except for maybe just looking at it and not giving it a fair try."

          I find Windows 8 is absolutely fine if I'm only doing basic 'user' type stuff - and my most regularly used applications are pinned to the task bar or on the desktop, so I rarely have to put up with the jarring UI change just to launch something. By basic user type stuff I mean loading documents into office type software, running accounts software, etc.

          Sometimes, though, Windows 8 decides to be an utter, utter prick. And here are a couple of examples which are barely above basic user type stuff:

          Example 1: I usually edit my websites on a different computer, but sometimes I might need to on the laptop when I'm not at home, so they are in a folder on the Windows 8 laptop which is shared across the network. One of those sites has four directories of images, and within each of those is a directory of thumbnails. Each of those directories of thumbnails is completely invisible to any computer on the network. Only the Windows 8 computer can see them. Probably a UAC issue, but I've yet to resolve it - mainly because, so far, I haven't needed to access those folders across the network; it's just something I've noticed. But Windows 8 is a prick.

          Example 2: Someone updated a manual for me and put it on their own website, sending me a direct link by email to download it. I read my email on the Windows 8 laptop, so I downloaded it on that machine, and put the zip file in another shared directory. I can open access that zip file from Windows - so I know it's fine. When attempting to move, copy or open that zip from another computer I get an access violation. Again, probably a UAC issue, and one I've yet to resolve. Instead, after spending a huge amount of time trying, and failing, I ended up using a memory stick to transfer the file between two networked computers. Windows 8 is a prick.

          Just to summarise: You know that Windows 8? It's a prick.

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    2. P. Lee
      Reply Icon

      Since when is a 12" screen a killer feature for business?

      Great for selecting your next track on spotify perhaps, but colour me and my visio diagramme "unimpressed."

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      1. chekri
        Reply Icon

        Because heaps of suits are doing network diagrams in Visio?

        I think you are confused.

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        1. Paul Crawford Silver badge
          Reply Icon

          "heaps of suits are doing network diagrams in Visio"

          No, probably spreadsheets. But same applies, having a 3x2 screen is much less sucky than 16:9

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        2. Pookietoo
          Reply Icon

          Re: heaps of suits are doing network diagrams

          Who said anything about network diagrams? Visio does a whole load of organisational and business process diagrams, project management and other stuff too, you know?

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      2. JDX Gold badge
        Reply Icon

        re:Since when is a 12" screen a killer feature for business?

        Since when is a laptop the best tool for "proper computing work" either? This is designed for being portable - meetings and presentations and travelling. Of course, you can no doubt plug it into a proper monitor and keyboard/mouse like you can any other laptop... anyone know if there are fancy-ass docking stations for Surface Pro?

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    3. SisterClamp
      Reply Icon
      Linux

      Not so fast

      If it's anything like the Surface 2 PRO, you can disable Smart Boot and install Linux on it. I'm waiting to see how much these slabs get discounted by, and when it's nice and low, that'll be what I'll be doing.

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      1. mmeier
        Reply Icon

        Re: Not so fast

        Okay so you wipe the OS that can actually use the 100€+ inductive digitizer for one that can not use it (NTRIG support is even worse than WACOM support), has no support software for it and you do this because???

        There are cheaper tablets around to run that DIY OS.

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        1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge
          Reply Icon

          Re: Not so fast

          Stop and think for one moment: maybe other people don't give a flying donkey fuck about the stylus.

          In fact, given the fact that the first tablets to really take off (iPad) weren't the stylus type, and a decade of Microsoft Stylus tablets failed to make a splash before that, I'm going to with "most people don't give a flying donkey fuck about the stylus".

          --Handwritten on my Samsung Galaxy Note 2, using my stylus.

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          1. mmeier
            Reply Icon

            Re: Not so fast

            Stop and try to READ for a moment. If I do not care for a stylus - why pay the extra MONEY for a stylus equiped unit. There are quite a few Haswell equiped non WACOM/NTrig units that are all cheaper than an SP.

            THAT was the question, nothing else

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            1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge
              Reply Icon

              Re: Not so fast

              Why don't you stop and read for a moment? If the fellow - like most people - doesn't give any fucks about the stylus then it simply won't factor into his decision-making one way or another. All things being equal, a stylus-equipped unit would be more expensive, but you'd have to be a deficient to believe that this actually held true in the real world for all cases.

              The fellow was talking quite explicitly about getting a previous generation device at a substantial discount. Generally getting a device a discount requires that devices be made available at discount pricing, not be sold out, and other such things. Thus the requirement here is "cheap" and "available." It has fuck all to do with the stylus, or the theoretical relative pricing of stylus versus non-stylus.

              I do, however, not that you seem to bring up the stylus in every single bloody thread where a Surface is mentioned. This leads me to believe that you're the one with the stylus fetish (I suspect viewing your browser history would elicit a mind-bleach requirement) and the rest of the world will just go with "cheap" and "available", eschewing any considerations whatsoever about the enstylused nature of their fondlefappery.

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  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why can't they simply produce the "Surface Landfill". :-)

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    1. Slap
      Reply Icon

      They've already done that. It just wasn't branded that way.

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    2. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Trollface

      They already have, RT stands for Rubbish Tip.

      15 1
  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If it won't run

    a proper operating system, have a proper keyboard (you know, for those business users that have to type a lot...) and allow two external screens to be used to extend the desktop - oh, wait. Doesn't have a desktop, does it? Just those totally-useless-in-a-productivity-environment "tiles."

    Pffffffffffffffffft - no sale.

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    1. Timmy B
      Reply Icon

      Re: If it won't run

      It has a desktop and a proper operating system. The type keyboards can be used by people that type all day - unless you don't include writing code all day. And it will allow external screens - not sure how many for sure but I have had two on a Surface 2 pro.

      Obviously won't be sold to you as you have no clue

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      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        @Timmy B- Re: If it won't run

        A desktop ? Where ? And why are they hiding it ?

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        1. Timmy B
          Reply Icon

          Re: @Timmy B- If it won't run

          Desktop tile. Press or click it and ta-flipping-da. there it is...

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  6. chuckufarley Silver badge

    There is but one god...

    ...and Scott Adams is his prophet:

    http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2012-11-06/

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  7. Slap

    I can see where MS are going with this

    The consumer tablet space is saturated. MS was way too late to the party to make any impact in that space, so they've done the obvious thing and gone for the business space. I'll admit if you're a serious business user looking to use a tablet as your primary compute device then it looks good, but...

    ...How many serious business users would really consider a tablet as a good solution. Ok you can get full MS office on it, but the thing weighs in close to ultrabook weights and the pricing is getting well into mid range to premium laptops the higher the spec you choose.

    I think most people, myself included, think that tablets in business are a partner to a main productivity system - not the productivity system itself. I really don't see this as a laptop killer for those who actually have business needs, I see it as a very competent sidekick, but the pricing possibly puts it outside of a convincingly realistic sidekick compute device.

    I'm sure it will be popular amongst upper managers and bosses, but that's a small market segment.

    It's a tough one, on the one hand it certainly appears to be a very useable device in business, and I know people who swear by the surface 2. On the other hand I think the market segment is way too small for MS to really have a success with this tablet.

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    1. Charles Manning
      Reply Icon

      Late to the party?

      This is a lame excuse that does not work.

      Microsoft have been doing tablets since 1992 Windows for Pen Computing. This is at least their 8th go at it.

      They were pretty much the first and they gave the space away. While MS can't find its ass with both hands, Apple and Google slid into the space and took it from them.

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      1. mmeier
        Reply Icon

        Re: Late to the party?

        When it comes to tablet pc that integrated seamlessly into the typical business environment than Windows units with inductive stylus have been and are still the only choice. Thy stylus allows usage of all Windows software and the OS allows sharing of all those VB(A), .NET, SWING UI and other "does not run on Android or iOS" solutions

        That is where the S/Ps are aimed and that is where you find them. They are NOT designed to kill an iThingy or Fragmentdroid in the same way a combat boot is not designed to crush an ant.

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  8. roger stillick
    Go

    Surface Pro no different than Palm Pilot...

    Palm Pilot was really the manager's friend, everyone used them at meetings n field trips...

    ANY smart phone killed them...

    Surface Pro could be the manager's friend, it just needs to do similar stuff...

    Desk top PC's today are more like work stations with Unix style 8 processor Cpu's n sub TB SSD's w/ two monitors 17in or larger running database drilling software for metrics on health of corporation...(MS does none of this)...

    Q= what happened to any smart phone (unsafe ? not sexy ?) for this use ??

    IMHO= Surface Pro tablet makes an excellent ADJUNCT to the manager's office work station but will never replace it...RS.

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    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Surface Pro no different than Palm Pilot...

      Palm Pilot was after all the mother of the smartphone. The first really usable smartphones came with PalmOS - which meant a lot of available apps -, and were from ex Palm employees. Palm was never able to capitalized on it, especially when they decided to replace PalmOS with WebOS - because people didn't understand what the latter was going to be. They killed an established brand just to put a "web" somewhere.

      Sure, Surfaces - like tablets - are devices you use together something else. I usually work on a workstation and two monitors. I also have a 15.4" laptop but that's when I need to fully work away from the office. For meetings, presentations, travels, etc. etc. the Surface Pro is small enough yet powerful enough to perform almost all I need. Being Windows, I do not need to use different applications than those I use on the workstation and laptop - it's the same software everywhere.

      Anyway I see many executive nowadays preferring very small and light laptops whenever they can, especially with a docking station in the office (and the Surface has a docking station too...), to use a bigger monitor and a full size keyboard when needed.

      They don't like to carry "big" laptops around, and "big" means anything bigger than 14". Those are for people needing screen estate to work with different complex applications, usually executive and upper managers don't. A 12" Surface with a good docking station could appeal to many of them.

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    2. mmeier
      Reply Icon

      Re: Surface Pro no different than Palm Pilot...

      "Manager" desktops are often notebook + dock + 1 or two external Monitors. With the same ULV series CPU as used in the S/Ps

      Easily done with an S/P. With 8GB/256GB SSD it also has the needed storage for company use. Actually a lot more for many jobs outside programming since for "document work" the network storage is a better place

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  9. Kev99 Silver badge

    What purpose does a tablet serve?

    The 20 something geeks weren't around when the first Compaq came out. The pundits complained then about the small screen and slow performance compared to desktops. A friend of mine got a Dell tablet to replace her laptop. The screen is so small she can't see half of the information on the screen. Plus, it won't run the ERP app we need. And using a touch screen is ridiculous unless you have hands steadier than a robots.

    I'm quite comfortable with my Toshiba laptop with its 17" screen, 8GB RAM and 650GB HD. And extra storage I need I drop onto my NAS.

    Until tablet reach the speed and capabilities the original Star Trek implied, they'll be nothing but a toy for those who don't want to use a real computer.

    1 1
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What purpose does a tablet serve?

      Usually a 17" laptop is not a portable computer, is a self-propelled one, once I was given one and I really hated it. That's size is OK only if you carry it around seldom, and mostly in the rear of a car. It's a terrible size if you have to use it on an airplane, for example, unless you can always fly business class in a large plane.

      Today tablets like the Surface are very close to your laptop specs (although at an expensive price). An i7 + 8GB RAM + 512GB SSD doesn't looks to me "slow performance" compared to a desktop. Sure, my overclocked i7 Extreme + 32GB RAM desktop beats my i5 8GB Surface Pro, but I guess it also beats most - if not all - laptops around - while driving 2560x1440 screens, but the Surface Pro runs most software, even demanding ones like Lightroom or Photoshop, without issues - and without water cooling and a 900W PSU ... the screen may be small - but that's a price I have no problem to pay to portability.

      Don't know what Dell tablet you're speaking about, but if an ERP can't work on a Windows tablet, maybe it's an ERP fault (coded for XP + IE6 only?), not the tablet. Using a touch screen requires some time to get used to, exactly like a smartphone. But you can always use a mouse or a digitizer, if the tablet supports it.

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      1. Vic
        Reply Icon

        Re: What purpose does a tablet serve?

        if an ERP can't work on a Windows tablet, maybe it's an ERP fault

        Doesn't matter.

        If the ERP system is the application that needs to be run, then it's irrelevant where the fault lies - the Surface is no use for that task.

        Vic.

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        1. Robert Grant
          Reply Icon

          Re: What purpose does a tablet serve?

          Any argument that can equally argue for only ever using IE6 on Windows is being unfairly applied.

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      2. JEDIDIAH
        Reply Icon
        Linux

        Re: What purpose does a tablet serve?

        > Today tablets like the Surface are very close to your laptop specs

        Not my laptop. Then again, I use my machine for more than playing Candy Crush.

        Contrary to popular opinion, work machines still need to have some computational muscle. You can't just throw some anemic junk in a thin-and-pretty form factor and declare things done. Many people need more power than that.

        Doesn't matter if it's an Ultrabook or a tablet.

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        1. mmeier
          Reply Icon

          Re: What purpose does a tablet serve?

          8GB/256GB SSD and an i5 series ULV are not the "top end" but pretty close. May I ask what notebook you are using?

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    2. mmeier
      Reply Icon

      Re: What purpose does a tablet serve?

      "Small DELL" is either the Latitude 10 or the newer Venue. The Lat10 had a 1280x800 screen so there is a chance the ERP screen does not work on that. 2GB/CTrail Atom add more problems.

      The S/Ps have at least an i3 (i5 in the available versions), 4GB and 1920x1080. If the ERP does not run on that - it is NOT designed for a notebook but for a dual screen WS / a notebook + dock. S/P2 can do that as well.

      And if that is not enough - tablet pc with 16GB, i7 and 13'' have existed / do exist for some years now. Fujitsu T902 will do the job.

      As for the "touch" strawman - roll up tight and inject where the sun does not shine. x86 tablet pc like the S/P have a extremly precise stylus and accept mouse/keyboard for tasks that require them

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  10. Vector

    ...it tramples the toes of PC makers busy churning out Windows 8 laptops...

    Not at those prices it don't!

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  11. Dave Stevens
    Holmes

    #3rd time's the charm

    Well, that didn't work for Xbox either.

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  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    From an MS perspective, it could be the right move

    What MS has to ensure is that business keep on using its software stack - operating system, server software, client software. They have to offer an highly portable device able to run the same Windows software the customer use on his systems, to counter the iOS/Android devices.

    From a system administrator point of view, devices you know how to manage, and fully integrated into the network security architecture are far better than devices you have very little control over, and which add a whole new stack of software to procure, maintain, and integrate with. If those devices start to be also appealing, both in design and performance, it will be less hard to have them used.

    Trying to fight in the low-end "landfill tablet" market probably won't bring any real advantage to Microsoft. They would be devices underpowered but for the simplest business use, and would require different, lighter applications.

    PC makers are paying the price of having designed mostly "landfill laptops" in the past year that barely met the needs of business people. Many Dell and HP I had to work with, for example, were - and are - really ugly devices. If they didn't want to invest much in R&D and now found MS developed better devices (although expensive) well, they just should ask themselves why they didn't make something alike before...

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  13. Davie Dee

    whats this...

    All very lovely but perhaps a bit of meat on the opinion piece would have been better?

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    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: whats this...

      Why do you want to flog a dead horse?

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  14. Hellcatm

    "Worse, it’s a call to war by Microsoft on PC makers because Microsoft actually sees the Surface Pro 3 as a laptop killer. Panay on Tuesday called Surface Pro 3 “the tablet that can replace the laptop.”"

    OEM's are making these hybrid tablet/laptops too. Microsoft isn't saying they can't. OEM's are important to Microsoft, the Surface is there to push them to innovate. So they're not pushing away the PC makers, they aren't treating them like the competition, they still work with them. So I think your comment is flawed and wrong.

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    1. P. Lee
      Reply Icon

      I had a look at an old surface system. I was surprised at how good it was for replacing a laptop.

      That isn't what it first looks like. The truth is that most laptops I see spend their days docked, to accommodate a 2nd large screen, an external mouse and possibly a keyboard. If you do all that through one USB/TB connection, a tablet which is only occasionally used without those devices could well be an option. The one I saw was atom-based but a better CPU might make it more usable.

      Many companies have hotdesks with the peripherals supplied so just taking a tablet to and from work and occasionally on the road is an option. It might even get MS back into the home (ok, I'm kidding there).

      What MS have missed though is that the tablet is cool precisely because it isn't under corporate control - it is an expression of self. Take that away and its no longer desirable.

      What will be interesting is to see if ARM can approach this scenario from the other end by giving people an over-powered phone which docks to a KVM. Phone graphics are already up there. Let's see if big.LITTLE / 64bit ARM can give us a single bit of silicon which can double up as a phone and PC. It should start at home with USB screen / bluetooth keyboard/mouse or a screen with a charging/docking station built in. I suspect this is what MS are desperately trying to avoid.

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