Feeds

back to article E-cigarettes help you quit – but may not keep you alive

A five-year study by University College London suggests that e-cigarettes may, in fact, help people quit. Between 2009 and 2014, the researchers at UCL, with funding from Cancer Research UK, surveyed more than 5,800 smokers who'd tried to quit without either prescription medications or professional support. The sample size …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.

Page:

Worked fine for me.

Smoked for 14 1/2 years, found out about ecigs early december 2010, researched like crazy for a week, ordered my kit, got it in the mail 29th december, smoke free since then. Eventually I stopped using my ecig as well, I take it out on occasion for sentimental reasons.

Unlike the cold-turkey quitters of smoking, I have no problems with smelling cigg smoke, infact I still enjoy catching the occasional whiff (just not the cloud inside small compact area without ventilation -- but then again I couldn't stand that even when I was smoking myself).

When I switched to vaping it changed from a compulsion to hobby, in the beginning I was vaping constantly because I enjoyed the hell out of it thoroughly, I failed at blowing smoke rings with cigs, but with vaping I had so much fun with that, and they were huge rings too!

Like I mentioned, eventually I reached for it less and less. Nowadays I liken it to a bag of chips or candy, something you can have every once in a while for some enjoyment.

20
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: Worked fine for me.

Never had a problem with cigarette smoke when quitting cold turkey, I suspect you may have been using the e-cig incorrectly, especially if you got a huge ring though I appreciate it takes all colours of the rainbow...

0
1
Silver badge

There is a problem with these in the USA.

The problem is becoming one of availability as more and more cities (soon to be followed by states) ban them. The given reasons are it's not healthy and/or there's the political correctness of it.

The real reason seems to be what occurred when they first started getting popular. The states and feds couldn't tax them and still can't. The wording of the law is for "tobacco" not "nicotine". The Customs Department couldn't level duties on the products due to the law's wording and shipments were held up in the ports for weeks. They are now allowed in, but no duty is collected.

Congress and the state legislatures haven't seen fit to change the wording yet and probably won't since the tobacco industry has such a large lobbying industry in DC and the various state capitols, that the stuff will never be taxed. If it can't be taxed, it can't be legal, so the logic seems and people will have to rely on real tobacco.

Disclaimer: I'm a smoker and trying to quit using the vapes. I've cut down radically but still like my after-dinner cig. (the real one, not the vape). My doctor believes I've done the right thing as my lungs are clear. He also thinks it's the tar and smoke not the nicotine that's the problem with cigarettes.

8
0
Silver badge

Re: There is a problem with these in the USA.

I refill the cartridges of the 'real cig lookalikes' and a 30ml bottle of e-juice lasts me two weeks. If any government did try taxing them then there would be massive smuggling of this liquid.

As you said, the problem with e-cigs, from the government's point of view, is that they lead to a reduction in tax revenue; from the wealthy and influential tobacco companies' point of view it's a reduction in profits. It's not just the people who smoke/vape who are addicted, it's entire governments of major nations.

8
0
Silver badge

Re: There is a problem with these in the USA.

from the government's point of view, is that they lead to a reduction in tax revenue; from the wealthy and influential tobacco companies' point of view it's a reduction in profits

I agree that these are two of the three most affected industries, but you forget the third: Pharmaceutical companies. They are loosing out big-time on NRT products.

7
0
Silver badge
Stop

Re: There is a problem with these in the USA.

As you said, the problem with e-cigs, from the government's point of view, is that they lead to a reduction in tax revenue

But have a much larger reduction in healthcare expenditure. Why else would governments spend so much money on persuading people to quit?

Don't let me spoil your conspiracy theories, though.

4
10
Bronze badge

Re: There is a problem with these in the USA. @Phil O'Sophical

You are assuming that government is joined up and the left hand knows what the right hand is doing...

We can expect governments to complain because tax revenues are down this year, but that health expenditure remains high. Because the healthcare benefits will only occur some years down the road, we can expect there to be no actual savings to be had from healthcare expenditure as it will have been quietly reallocated and spent elsewhere. Remember this was the classic problem of BPR in the late 90's where the forecasted savings didn't materialise and everyone overlooked all the new stuff the company was doing which it wasn't a few years previously...

3
0
Silver badge

Re: There is a problem with these in the USA.

"But have a much larger reduction in healthcare expenditure"

Governments DO have to spend more on healthcare expenditure on smokers, BUT they save a boatload in pensions since smokers die younger. As far as I know a UK study showed that this difference nets in the governments favour for smokers (ie governments are financially better off spending more on smokers' healthcare and less on pensions). Of course this balance will be different in different countries depending on healthcare and pension systems - I guess in US where healthcare is more privatised, smokers quitting would have a huge detrimental effect on the Treasury as healthcare savings will be private while increased pension payments are public.

3
1
Silver badge

Re: There is a problem with these in the USA.

Seriously? You believe that? Smokers die with minimal treatment. Diabetics on the other hand eat up big money in drugs, surgeries, kidney dialysis, etc. before they go. I worked for a health insurance company and they preferred smokers (even though they rated them up for premiums) since they cost so little compared to other ailments.

As for persuading people to quit... follow the money. There's some very powerful lobbies in the USA do play the political correctness and "think of the children" card. Government has a problem. They love the tax revenue but have to go along with the voters and the hate smoking crowd.

3
1
Bronze badge

Re: There is a problem with these in the USA.

I agree that these are two of the three most affected industries, but you forget the third: Pharmaceutical companies. They are loosing out big-time on NRT products.

Quite. NRT is just as, if not more, expensive than smoking.

E-cigs on the other hand appeal also to people who (initially) might just be after saving some money.

After initial period most are likely to notice difference in not inhaling all the tar etc and quite likely to stay on e-cigs or even quit altogether.

3
0

e-Cigs are not for quitting

This is a common misconception with e-Cigs. They are not, and have never been a device to help quit smoking.

In order to be a quit smoking device, they would need to be classed as a medicine, which they are not. Simply put, they are an alternative to smoking lit tobacco.

I've been using ecigs exclusively for approx. 2 years now. I am however, still a smoker in every sense aside from the part that involves tobacco (and the lungs)

The problem being faced currently by ecigs goes beyond that of government & tax. There's also the fact that big pharma is getting more than a little upset by people choosing to switch to e-cigs and forgo the traditional NRT (nicotine replacement therapy) approach.

Then there's the lack of understanding in the wider sphere as to what vaping actually is...

9
9
Silver badge

Re: e-Cigs are not for quitting

"This is a common misconception with e-Cigs. They are not, and have never been a device to help quit smoking."

Indeed. It is little known that old non-smoking tobacco (e.g. snuff) is untaxed in this country, and hasn't been for decades in an effort to help people switch to a less harmful method.

1
0
Bronze badge
Holmes

Re: e-Cigs are not for quitting

To be pedantic, e-cigs can be used as a way of giving up smoking, but they don't help to give up ones nicotine habit.

Still, if it's a choice between nicotine plus burning plant material, or just nicotine, The latter sounds preferable.

>>>>>>>>> surprised you can't get an e-cig shaped like a pipe

5
0

Re: e-Cigs are not for quitting

"surprised you can't get an e-cig shaped like a pipe"

You can actually, quite a number in fact, in many different styles of pipe. Something the smoker with a more traditional taste in nicotine delivery devices. Some of them look pretty good in my opinion, too.

As for the "is it a quit aid?" question, it's tricky. Some would say that yes, ecigs do help people to stop smoking tobacco and therefore are a quit aid, and it's not unreasonable to state that ecigs do in fact help many people to stop using traditional tobacco. However, there's a game of semantics being played within the political discussion.

If a product is advertised as a quitting aid then it is a medical product, it is accepted to be a product designed, marketed and sold for the express purpose of helping those who are medically considered to be addicted to nicotine and therefore tobacco. This would include nicotine gum, patches, sprays, inhalators, pills, etc.

If a product is designed to perform this task, it becomes a medical product, a drug which attempts to remedy what is perceived to be an illness (which in my opinion is untrue, smoking is not an illness, it's a personal choice, albeit arguably ill-advised). If a product is deemed to be medical, it requires medical authorisation, it must be subjected to many expensive tests and clinical trials. Each product or variation of a product must undergo this testing, at huge expense each time.

In ecig terms, this would stifle innovation and cripple the ecig market. 99.9% of ecig products aren't medicinal in nature, they don't intend to be and don't claim to be. If they were, each flavour, strength and device combination would require extremely expensive medical authorisation.

This means that 18mg tobacco, 24mg tobacco, 30mg tobacco, 18mg menthol, 24mg menthol and 30mg menthol would require SIX different approvals. This is not viable for the ecig market at this time. The only companies which could afford to do this are big pharmaceutical companies and big tobacco companies. The smaller manufacturers and vendors which comprise a large section of the current market, would be wiped off the face of the planet with zero hope of competing.

It's problematic because the choice of flavours, strengths and methods of atomising the liquid are what make ecigs so successful. If I only had the option of an ecig shaped like a cigarette marketed by Nicorette or an ecig shaped like a cigarette marketed by [some other nicotine replacement therapy company], I'd be a lot less enthralled with the concept. I would have little to no flavours or strengths to choose from, which is likely to mean that I don't enjoy the few very specific flavours they provide, and the nicotine contents they choose to sell may not be to my taste either.

Each delivery device may also require authorisation too, this would result in only "first generation" (cigarette-shaped) devices being available. In practical terms, this means poor battery life, poor liquid capacity and poor vapour production. Each cartridge would be subject to further restrictions, requiring dosage control, and almost certainly would prevent consumer refilling, thereby further raising the cost to the user.

So that long winded waffling ultimately means this - ecigs are not, and cannot be, medical products. If they were, they would essentially become near useless, overpriced, crippled, unpleasant and more difficult to purchase. This CANNOT happen if ecigs are to be successful in reducing the number of people who use traditional tobacco.

6
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: e-Cigs are not for quitting

"To be pedantic, e-cigs can be used as a way of giving up smoking, but they don't help to give up ones nicotine habit."

They can. Once you stop buying the terrible off-the-shelf ones and start buying the liquid yourself, it becomes trivial to control the concentration of nicotine in the vapour. Start out on something strong like 18 or 24mg/ml, then dial it down over the course of months. The habit is exactly the same - you can still stand around belting out strawberry-flavoured smoke rings, but before long, if you really want to, it can be completely nicotine free juice.

4
0
Holmes

Re: e-Cigs are not for quitting

No need to be surprised. E-pipes are available in a large number of shops in a large number of varieties (single, dual and triple cartomizer as well as tank models).

1
0
Bronze badge
IT Angle

Re: e-Cigs are not for quitting

I am not sure I can see how this is always true?

I know a number of friends who have explicitly started on Dose A of nicotine and worked their way down to zero. I had always assumed that was their purpose.... Being designated "medical" doesn't really enter into it, although it would seem perverse to prescribe it...

then again, I had heard it also got around "no smoking" rules in restaurants and such...

Ok carry on, as you were...

P.

0
0
Silver badge

Re: e-Cigs are not for quitting

I used them to quit back in 2000 and was using non-nicotine flavoured inserts.

I just didn't like the taste if nicotine was present, but it allowed me to deal with the physical withdrawal separately from the psychological withdrawal (which was actually greater in my case).

1
0

Re: e-Cigs are not for quitting

"surprised you can't get an e-cig shaped like a pipe"

Sure you can, I saw one a few months back.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=e+cig+that+looks+like+a+pipe

0
0
(Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

Re: Re: e-Cigs are not for quitting

"lgtfy.com".

Ooooh, shots fired!

C.

4
0
Silver badge

Re: e-Cigs are not for quitting

"I used them to quit back in 2000"

This is not correct, since they didn't come out until 2007, so I must have quit without them.

Is a side-effect of quitting smoking memory loss?

0
0

Re: e-Cigs are not for quitting

They do actually help. When you smoke a cigarette, you finish it, because throwing away half a cigarette is wasteful. This makes it hard to reduce the amount you smoke, because it'll be an entire cigarette each time. With an e-cig, you can easily reduce the amount slowly.

Also, you can choose how much nicotine is in the mixture, so you can slowly alter that to lean more and more towards the "just water" side. This way you tackle the physical addiction first (while still "smoking" water vapor) to then slowly reduce that as well (or not: water vapor won't hurt you).

2
0
Bronze badge

Title

I smoked for 10 or so years, started vaping last march and haven't had a real tab since then, so that's over a year

VASTLY cheaper, i can do it in the house and my wife doesn't complain about the cigarette smell anymore.

It really is a no-brainer

But if the government isn't taxing them and the tobacco lobbyists are fighting against them because they missed out on jumping on there early then of course every spurious reason under the sun will be uttered

I believe they're going to have a revolutionary benefit to the health of the nation as a whole

although with less smokers dying prematurely and able to collect their pensions and less tobacco tax, the government might have to actually find a way of sustaining itself

9
0
Silver badge

"less tobacco tax and less premature deaths..."

and less sick people choking up the NHS.

It would be interesting to do a complete financial breakdown from a govt perspective. - just pure numbers without the sentimental aspects.

Does premature death (therefore less pension etc) and less excise taxes add up to more than the added healthcare costs?

5
0
Bronze badge

Re: "less tobacco tax and less premature deaths..."

not to defend smoking, but smokers are net contributors yeah

If the NHS being gummed up is our big issue then it's alcohol you wanna go after...

7
3
Silver badge

Re: "less tobacco tax and less premature deaths..."

"It would be interesting to do a complete financial breakdown from a govt perspective. - just pure numbers without the sentimental aspects."

This has been done. Smokers die younger, but that means they don't claim pensions as much nor die of dementia later. Overall, I think the evidence is persuasive that smoking is a economic benefit to the economy.

4
1
M_W

Re: "less tobacco tax and less premature deaths..."

Totally agree. And having a significant other who works for the NHS, the amount of time A&E spend dealing with pissed up people on a Saturday night is unbelievable.

Although the stats are interesting.

Alcohol related issues cost the NHS £3.5Bn in 2011-2012.

Smoking related issues reputedly cost the NHS £5.2bn in 2009

I can't seem to find the stats for the same year, but they must be around.

But even more than that is fixing obese people which apparently costs the NHS £6bn a year. Thus the current campaign on healthy eating.

I do wonder if these may be circles in the same Venn diagram - how much crossover or double or tripe counting is there between these three figures? There's a likely potential that a fat, smoking alcoholic will be counted three times?

Nonetheless, vaping must be much less carcinogenic than traditional smoking. I'm all for it.

I'm also an Ex smoker - smoked around 10 Marlboro lights a day for 14 years, till I quit 14 years ago, almost to the day. I quit by buying 200 fags duty-free after a holiday, sitting at a party, drinking shedloads and binge smoking the entire carton, and made myself very sick. Never touched one again!

1
0
Bronze badge

Nike

If you want to quit smoking then quit cold turkey. It's not "easy" but far from impossible. I smoked for 15 years >= 20 a day then decided to wake up one morning and never smoke again. That was a good 4 years ago now.

If you can't do this then you don't want it enough. That's OK, I'm not going to judge. It's your life and your choice.

These e-cigs look like the perfect answer for ALL smokers, whether they want to quit or not. If I still smoked I would have moved from tobacco to these purely for the health benefits.

12
5
Bronze badge

Re: Nike

I've done cold turkey, lasted 6 months.

But one night you'll get drunk, and when EVERYONE seemingly has an inexhaustible supply of smokes and is adamant you take one, it's easy to wear down eventually and that's that

On a night out i just carry a spare battery and a small bottle of e-liquid and i can still socialise with friends and not be constantly prodded with offers of tabs

and sure we CAN go cold turkey, but if this is easier and more enjoyable then why not?

i CAN have a bath with cold water every morning, but I have this lovely piece of technology in the form of a boiler that makes it something i can enjoy instead of endure

13
2

Re: Nike

>> If you can't do this then you don't want it enough.

Dude that's really harsh, I once tried quitting cold turkey, I went without ciggs for 2 months and I was a nervous wreck the entire time and I had a constant yearning for a drag, and after 2 months I was back on it anyway.

Switched to vaping, and it took the compulsion away completely over time. I completely bypassed the difficulty of cold-turkey quitting. If that's not 'manly' enough for you or whatever, then maybe you need to confront your own masochism.

10
1
Anonymous Coward

Re: Nike

If you friends are so adamant you start smoking again by plying you with cigs, when they clearly know you are attempting to stop, perhaps you shouldn't be going out with them. After all, they seem to be trying to kill you.

13
0

Re: Nike

Nike,

I am pleased that you were able to stop smoking instantly. However; you are falling into an age old trap that just because you were able to do something then everybody else should be able to as well. Unfortunately the world is not that simple and you are judging others by stating "If you can't do this then you don't want it enough" .

I have tried the cold turkey approach in the past on three occasions and it did not work. On the last day of June last year I had my last fag and have not had even so much as a drag since then. I smoked for approximately forty years and at much higher levels than you. I now use a vaping machine and have no set target as to when or if I am going to wean myself of it

One difference is that I do not think that ecigs are the answer for all smokers, but that for many they work! and for that reason I am very keen to see that they are not medicalised by big business or regulated by the state.

My missus would say it is the best thing that I have done in years ;-)

10
1
Bronze badge

Re: Nike

> My missus would say it is the best thing that I have done in years ;-)

I was a lifelong twenty-a-day smoker. I tried on numerous occasions to quit, but always failed. Five years ago my partner, who had never smoked a cigarette in her life, was diagnosed with lung cancer.

I went cold turkey on the same day she had a lobe of her lung removed, and haven't smoked since. As you can imagine, the realisation that my habit may well have seriously - nearly fatally - harmed a loved-one was sufficient motivation to stop smoking.

After being exposed to the hard realities of lung cancer I would never consider inhaling anything for pleasure. However, for those who enjoy the smoking habit, at least ecigs reduce the second hand risk involved.

8
0
Silver badge

Re: Nike

In defence of the OP I tried to quit on numerous occasions for various different reasons, in the end (and in retrospect) the difference between failing to quit and actually quitting was a decision that was made that I considered irrevocable. In other words, making a choice and fully committing to it.

However, the tricks your mind plays on you to undermine your choices cannot be underestimated, especially when it is addicted to a class-A drug.

1
0
Silver badge

Re: Nike

Not sure about tobacco being class-A drug but I totally agree with the OP and Sir Spoon - if you are trying to quit on your own then - a) you must make a firm decision (you won't be able to make it without wanting it very hard) and b) do it all or nothing (no chance of success if you will try to do it gradually).

In my experience the hardest was the month #3, after that it became a done deal for me...

1
1
Silver badge

Re: Nike

"Not sure about tobacco being class-A drug"

I've often heard that nicotine is as addictive as a class A drug, but it is classified as C as far as I am aware

0
0

Re: Nike

@king of foo

Re: Nike

Can't entirely agree with the first sentence of the second paragraph "If you can't do this then you don't want it enough." It worked for me. I quit (before e-cigs were around) after much internal reflection. I decided that I would always have an excuse. Something big would happen at work, or at home, or whatever. I decided that I didn't care about the consequences. If I got irritable and spouted off at work and lost my job, so be it. Of course nothing that drastic happened. But the point was I decided I wanted to quit and the social aspects and whatever other mind tricks I could play on myself were not going to deter me. But I can't entirely agree with the statement because I know we are all individuals and have different values and different viewpoints.

I will say that had e-cigs been around I would certainly have tried them. And even if I retained the nicotine habit, that would be preferable to the smoking habit.

0
0
Bronze badge

Re: Nike

Wow - strong opinions. 'Nike' was a reference to 'victory' and 'just do it' by the way... and intended to reinforce my opinion that everyone is strong enough to beat (nicotine) addiction, they just need self belief and a little tough love. I'd score myself somewhere between hopeless and useless (thanks dad) so if I can quit cold turkey then ANYONE can. No really, I'm pond scum. Ask anyone.

Ignore the BS spewed by pharma and tobacco companies, which appears to have evolved into urban legend; it's not that difficult to sit on your arse and NOT do something. Your boss manages that trick every day. Ignore everyone else, including me. You are all that counts and you are strong enough to quit.

I wasn't intending to come across as judgemental or to put people down that have tried and couldn't kick the habit right away. The reality of the situation is that it is you sucking that poison and it's only you that can stop yourself from doing it, so you really need to want to quit - and that want has to be stronger than the fake "need" that your body is telling you. If your body wins then, well, that's what I meant by not wanting it enough. There's nothing else to it; drink as much snake oil as you want, it won't change this.

Or, become a "vaper"; hopefully you'll live a longer and healthier life (until someone finds a link between "vaping" and "arse cancer" that is - ha).

2
1
Silver badge

Who is selling them?

At least one International Tobacco company is selling them.

I don't know if this is good or bad.

0
0
Bronze badge

I read an article detailing how the Welsh 'government' wanted to ban eCigs here because they normalised smoking.

I'm so glad the Welsh 'government' is careful to look after my thoughts as well as my freedoms.

4
1

Addicts

Some people are "deeper" addicts than others. To just state that you found it easy (or easier) to go cold turkey is one persons view. Others find it extremely difficult. I have smoked for 36 years and have gone cold turkey 3 times in the past,...and every time I lapsed. For me cold turkey doesn't work. Have now been vaping for 2 weeks and while the taste and experience is not the same it's close enough. In a few weeks I will be moving to low nicotine liquid and will use that for a few weeks. After that I will switch to zero nicotine liquid and see how I get on. Hopefully I will soon be an ex-smoker but for most of us we are only ONE cigarette away from being an addict again so I will keep a zero nicotine vaper close at hand. I do have friends who have the occasional (1 per month) cigarette but I have never been able to do that. As for the contribution, my understanding is that smokers are still net contributors to the UK governments finances, but the margin is decreasing. Personally I am looking forward to having an extra £240 per month in my pocket. With the vapers am currently saving half that compared to tobacco cigarettes.

8
0

Re: Addicts

That's exactly what I did, I started out with a high nicotine liquid to try it out, and found that I didn't need such a high amount at all, gradually went down in nicotine (and subsequently I found that I could actually vape more with less nicotine in it, which, I discovered is what I really enjoyed, just dragging in and blowing out huge clouds of vapour -- but if you do that with high nic you'll get a headache =P), until I was vaping zero nic.

Doing this is what made me realize something that I had never questioned before, intellectually I knew nic is just a stimulant like caffeine for example, it's supposed to make you a bit more hyper, but when I smoked ciggs it wasn't to get hyper, it was to relax, at the time I smoked I asked myself this but dismissed it and forgot about it. When I started vaping and encountered pure nic I remembered again, and that's when I learned what /other/ mind-altering crap they put in ciggs, like antidepressants. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Wtf.

But I digress, good luck on continuing your two weeks, vape on!

1
0
Silver badge

Re: Addicts

"but when I smoked ciggs it wasn't to get hyper, it was to relax"

Just an fyi, but a stimulant causing relaxation can be indicative of ADHD and can be considered to be a 'self-medicating' habit. Obviously a host of other factors are involved too.

When I was finally diagnosed with ADHD and the Dr. was asking me about early drug use etc. I mentioned that I once did some speed with a friend, and whilst he went off to town off his tits, I went to sleep. His response was that that was 'diagnostic' - in other words a clear indication (apart from all the other stuff) that I did indeed have ADHD.

I am never more relaxed than when I have copious amounts of stimulants running through my veins, especially adrenaline. I remember racing a motorbike around Snetterton and going round the outside of some of the faster bikes in the corners, my head was probably about 6 inches from their chain and I remember how peaceful and calm I felt - I noticed lots of little details whilst still managing to exit the corner safely (and in front ;) ) of the other riders.

Unfortunately I was only riding a Fazer600 and they were on R6's so they soon left me on the straight.

0
0
Bronze badge

Re: Addicts

What you say about ADHD and stimulants is true, but it's fairly well known that nicotine has both stimulant and relaxant effects. Which seems strange, but presumably that's part of what makes it such a popular drug.

1
0
Silver badge

Re: Addicts

I went on to do a little more digging about nicotine and it seems that in small doses (someone who takes a few drags on a ciggie in the morning for example) will experience the stimulant effect, whereas someone smoking more will start to feel the relaxant effects.

0
0

We know the government never pays attention to scientific evidence. I got my e-cig 1st November 2013

I've not bought tobacco since, and not scrounged a single cig off anyone else either. In the first few weeks I smoked "real" tobacco a few times, the first week was a changeover thing, then a couple more times when I ran out of juice.

This year I have been completely tobacco free.

It does seem there are other motives behind wanting to ban or heavily regulate e-cigs.

5
0
Silver badge

Wrong audience

We probably approach this pragmatically as engineers - cheaper, doesn't smell, less harmful, no passive problems, result! Alas there are some people who approach them on some sort of crusade against things that bear a visual similarity to smoking for no better reason than 'think of the children'

Vaping looks kinda silly, it's not shown in film or TV as 'cool', has no image of rebellion, it's actually a great tool to tide over a generation as those below are unlikely to emulate. I really really hope those idiots don't get their way and block the most successful and least harmful alternative to something nobody wants anyway.

13
0
Paris Hilton

Re: Wrong audience

The meme of "well it looks like smoking" despite the lack of fumes, butts and (probably) adverse health effects is utterly stupid. People might as well rail against electric cars because "hurr it looks like an ordinary car".

8
0
Silver badge
Alert

Re: Wrong audience

"has no image of rebellion"

Until they ban it of course, and then it will be all kinds of desirable.

5
0
Bronze badge

Study makes no sense

Maybe the full study does, but the summaries on their page make no sense whatsoever.

It sounds like a massive subgroup analysis which is completely invalid by any basic stats methods.

0
0

Page:

This topic is closed for new posts.