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back to article Japanese cops arrest man with five 3D printed guns at home

Japanese police have arrested a 27-year-old man after finding he had manufactured five handguns using a commercial 3D printer, two of which they say were capable of firing. Plastic Japanese gun arsenal Guns they may be, but dangerous they aren't Yoshitomo Imura, an employee of Shonan Institute of Technology in Fujisawa, made …

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Facepalm

"I can't complain about the arrest if the police regard them as real guns."

That's not the kind of spirit that will keep that country going.

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Anonymous Coward

a 3D printed rifle .. the barrel split

"...a 3D printed rifle were even less successful after the barrel split the first time it was fired..."

Duh, wrap the barrel in a couple layers of dental floss.

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Anonymous Coward

Japan also has one of the lowest overall murder rates, so comparing gun deaths with the US is a bit disingenious. There are plenty of other countries where guns are illegal that have much higher murder rates than America -- for example, the socialist paradise of Venezuela has the second highest murder rate in the entire world (you're eight times more likely to be murdered there than in the US).

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Correlation is not in direct relation to gun ownership.

Guns do not kill people, people kill people.

Leaving aside the USA for the moment.

Serbia, Finland, Sweden and even Switzerland have a similar or much higher gun ownership percentage than that of Uruguay. Yet the homicide rate in Uruguay is more than double that of the others combined.

This shows an example whereby there appears to be no direct correlation between gun ownership and homicide. I would hazard a guess that the real problem is either drugs, gambling, some other vice or possibly the mentality. The USA has probably more drugs, gambling and vice than any other of country and also the highest homicide rate, possibly a correlation here.

The 'Mericans are also brought up not into a gun culture but into a culture whereby a man can use lethal force to defend his property, herein lies another part of the problem....the mentality. The Mericans choose to use the gun as the means, other cultures use don't. Again possibly a correlation.

If someone wants to kill another I am sure that with or without a gun they could quite easilly find the means, fortunately most people are not brought up into that kind of culture.

I have lived in the States and also other countries with a far greater accesibility to firearms,Israel and Switzerland, but I felt less safe in the States.

Nothing more than my tuppence worth.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: other countries with a far greater accesibility to firearms,Israel and Switzerland

"I have lived in the States and also other countries with a far greater accesibility to firearms,Israel and Switzerland, but I felt less safe in the States."

No, you haven't, or you're just incredibly thick.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation#Israel

"It is forbidden in Israel to own any kind of firearm, including air pistols and rifles, without a firearms license. [...]To obtain a gun license, an applicant must be a resident of Israel for at least three consecutive years, have no criminal record, be in good health, have no history of mental illness, pass a weapons-training course, and be over a certain age."

http://www.jpost.com/National-News/Israeli-gun-control-regulations-opposite-of-US

"According to Yaakov Amit, the head of the Public Security Ministry’s Firearms Licensing Department, the difference between the gun laws in the US and Israel are as clear as night and day.[...]Amit said gun licenses are only given out to those who have a reason because they work in security or law enforcement, or those who live in settlements “where the state has an interest in them being armed.”

Greater accessibility to firearms? Yeah, right.

As to Switzerland, it's also not exactly the way the gun-touting idiots in the US believe it is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21379912

And you wonder why your country becomes the laughing stock of the world and an embarassment of humanity.

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Re: other countries with a far greater accesibility to firearms,Israel and Switzerland

> No, you haven't, or you're just incredibly thick.

Apparently you also have reading issues.

Legal ownership and accessibility are two different words and they don't mean the same thing.

There are places in Manchester where getting hold of an illegal hand gun is almost as easy as getting a pint.

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Joke

Re: Correlation is not in direct relation to gun ownership.

"The USA has probably more drugs, gambling and vice than any other of country and also the highest homicide rate, possibly a correlation here."

Thanks for noticing, we've worked hard to get this messed up.

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Re: other countries with a far greater accesibility to firearms,Israel and Switzerland

Dear AC,

As it happens I have actually lived and worked in all of these countries, have you ? I have also frequented many many people that own or have access to firearms for a multitude of reasons.

Israel : I lived and worked there for several years and have on several occasions been on field trips into the desert, we were accompanying children, and I was asked each time to carry a loaded Galil, instructions were simple "help protect" the group should a situation arrive, all of the adults were armed ( forget the legality and welcome to the real world) . I have the photos to prove handling of IMI Desert Eagles; One of my ex-colleagues was a IDF Sniper ( the real world kind not the movie kind - I worked with him for 2 years before he even mentioned it, I learned a lot about life from that guy).... None of these situations are exceptional, firearm accessibility in Israel is a lot different from the States, do not confuse the two.

USA : Rednecks in Arkansas/Texas - mainly hunting firearms but lots of them. I won't bother going into details about what or how the hunts were conducted. They also introduced me to hunting crossbows and compund bows, both of which are just as deadly. San Diego, I once opened my apartment door and a gun was promptly stuck in my face, the police were looking for someone and confused my aprtment with that of the guy downstairs, they checked my identitiy, excused themselves then headed of down below as if it was entirely normal. ( remember what I wrote about mentality).

Switzerland : Having worked there for over 8 years, I won't even bother going into the details about the expectations that the country has towards each man being armed/owning his service firearm and being able to use it. The Swiss have some excellent marksmen, it's not without reason. Come and visit, get to know the people and maybe then you will understand that firearms are a lot more prevalant that you might imagine. Have a quick check up on firearms suicides, the figures are a little bit embarrasing for the Swiss, they dont like to publish the numbers and ahve recently made some votes about firearms in the home because of this.

I also have both hunting and sporting licences and therefore also frequent people on a "weekly" basis, all year round. Have you ever been a member of a shooting club, you would be amazed at just how many people own one or more firearms, legally....and even slightly less legally. head off over to some of the above mentioned countries online forums and have alook at how active the forums are, they are a buzzing hive of activity if you follow them.

We won't even begin to cover illegal firearms or the bad guys....

By the way, the States was the only place that I ever heard anyone talk about shooting people, even just for fun, outside of a survival situation.

I intentionally used the word "Accessibility" because I fully understand the difference between ownership and accessibilty.

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Re: other countries with a far greater accesibility to firearms,Israel and Switzerland

the police were looking for someone and confused my aprtment with that of the guy downstairs, they checked my identitiy, excused themselves then headed of down below as if it was entirely normal. ( remember what I wrote about mentality)

That's normal city police mentality not the mentality of most people even gun owners. If you're hanging around with illegal gun owners in the States* you should probably hang out with other people but if you're somewhere where rocket/RPG/IED attacks are more common than, say plane crashes it might be a different story.

*I grant there are some states that go out of their way to make it so guns normal people already own are suddenly illegal and thereby create more folks with "illegal" guns as no or peculiar grandfathering is typically done.

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Re: other countries with a far greater accesibility to firearms,Israel and Switzerland

Eddy,

I completely agree with you that that is not the normal mentality of most gun owners but unfortunately it is the mentality of some of the "police"... ( the police are also normal citizens outside of the uniforms).

I have never hung out intentionally with people that have undeclared firearms but as you mentioned due to circumstance some people I know have become illegal owners. An example from last week, I friend's father recently died and he "inherited" his fathers hand guns which at the time did not require the same licencing as they do today. ( Normally he is obliged to render the arms to the police). Anyone who has a firearms owning parent/grand parent is in exactly the same position.

I must add also that most legal gun owners, probably around the 99.99% are respectable and law abiding people that handle firearms correctly, they are not the group that are causing any fire4arms problems.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: other countries with a far greater accesibility to firearms,Israel and Switzerland

Gosh, the government, people and UN are wrong because Wikipedia says so

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" A few years ago a Japanese police officer used his service weapon to kill himself and was posthumously charged and convicted with breaking gun regulations."

I told this to my coworker... he's now going nuts about "what do they do about it?"

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I saw that and my first thought was "Why?". Seriously what's the point of charging a dead man with a crime? Are they going to put his corpse in a jail cell for a few years before they cremate his remains? It just sounds like a waste of taxpayer money to me.

Besides if they really wanted to charge him posthumously with a crime surely homicide is a far more serious crime than unlicensed discharge of a firearm even under the strictest of gun controls.

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Anonymous Coward

It sends a message to family/friends/workers etc. That can be the right thing in certain circumstances. I'd not think it the best option in this one though. :(

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There may be insurance implications if the death occurred in the commission of a criminal act.

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You also have to consider aspects of Japanese culture that differ greatly from our own. Like most Asiatic cultures, the Japanese revere their ancestors with a profundity unmatched by any Western equivalent. We may remember deceased grandparents fondly, but the Japanese elevate them almost to the status of gods.

So convicting a dead man of a crime inflicts dishonour upon his standing as a revered ancestor and therefore also upon his living descendants. Essentially, as a previous poster has pointed out, it sends a message to his family, and also discourages others from committing the same crime in a way people used to Western social mores may find difficult to comprehend.

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Joke

Boot strapping

I'm going to buy a 3D printer and use it to make another 3D printer.

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Re: Boot strapping

Ever hear of Reprap?

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Re: Boot strapping

You might hit a snag or two on the way. Some things cannot be printed just yet. Although there might be some interesting methods to make simple mechanisms.

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Re: Boot strapping

Dear future lifeforms,

This is how skynet started. Beware!

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Joke

Re: Boot strapping

I'll wait until they shrink the RepRap to microscopic proportions and develop a means for it to refine its printing resin from any available organic material. Then I shall unleash it upon the world and laugh maniacally as civilisation is consumed under a flood of grey goo, MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

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Bah!

Shades of Disembowel Self Honourably Dibbalah.

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Origami

What if he had folded a non-functional gun out of paper, would he also be charged?

In other news, police arrested a man with three 5-D printed guns in his apartment but the evidence was lost when it fell through two other orthogonal dimensions

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Well friends, another expat living in the US, San Fran (I think still the US?), writes a gun article and can't help but play with statistics to make an incorrect point. Didn't work well for Mr. Morgan did it.

Back to the bit of story, hopefully they'll go easy on this citizen, probably his first go at a fiendish plot to take over the world with dodgy 'may fire once and may not' plastic guns.

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In Japan, no guns means children are safe!

... Oh wait...

8 Children Die in Japan Knife Attack

Well, it's not like it's a common occurrence.

oh wait...

7 killed in Japan knife attack

Japan knife attacker injures at least 13 people

Turns out it's so common Japanese press tend to label them tōrima* cases.

Looks like some people are going to kill other people, no matter how you try to limit their murder choices.

*'torima' = 'passing demon'

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Re: In Japan, no guns means children are safe!

Well, you're right… the murder rate in Japan is 0.3, five times the gun death rate of 0.06. Stopping people using guns only makes them look for another weapon.

In USA, the murder rate (4.8), is only 1.5 times the gun death rate (3.6). Some people are going to kill other people no matter what, but limiting their choices does seem to discourage the less-determined would-be murderers.

Aren't Japanese press highlighting torima cases because they are exceptional? When it happens every day, it's no longer news.

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Re: In Japan, no guns means children are safe!

A diisrbed person wielding a knife will do less damage than the same person with access to a firearm. Safety is clearly a relative concept. Until you can adequately address the reasons people inflict violence upon each other (substance abuse, mental health, jealousy, rage, etc) then you can limit the damage they do by controlling access to weapons and ammunition.

Most would argue that the general public should not be permitted to carry biological weapons. It would be ridiculous for me to assert that because people kill each other with guns anyway that there would be no benefit to banning such weapons.

Stricter gun control does reduce murder and suicide rates. You can look at these rates in Australia are and post 1996 when certain classes of weapons were banned. It isn't the only factor (see USA cc Switzerland) but it is a bit mind numbingly crazy to think that there is no link at all against the available evidence.

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Re: In Japan, no guns means children are safe!

>A diisrbed person wielding a knife will do less damage than the same person with access to a firearm

Have you seen Yojimbo ?

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Re: In Japan, no guns means children are safe!

"Stricter gun control does reduce murder and suicide rates."

Actually, it doesn't. If you want a better correlation for murder and suicide you might try looking at age. I know, all the links are wikipedia but I'm sure smart people know how to duckduckgo for themselves.

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Ban hand tools!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darra_Adam_Khel is an interesting place. They don't need 3D printers to churn out Lee Enfields.

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Anonymous Coward

but the cost of both the metal printer and the afterwork needed currently makes them prohibitively expensive.

I fixed that for you.

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Error:

"The object you are attempting to print looks like a firing pin. Printing such items is prohibited under the Restriction of Printed Firearms Act. In accordance with this Act, law enforcement in your area have been notified of this attempt. Please remain at your current location and wait for police to arrive."

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Error:

In accordance with this Act, law enforcement in your area have been notified of this attempt.

Oooohhhhh it comes with a built in radio transmitter that is tied directly to the Police... I reckon some cracker will abuse that.

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Re: Error:

Why would it need a radio transmitter specially linked to police when it could just notify them over your internet connection or WiFi?

Although I could see some cracking potential in digging out and exploiting the exact URL/IP address/email address it would use to contact the police...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Error:

You assume criminals engaged in supplying illegal weapons are going to be stupid enough to allow the equipment they're using to do it to connected to the internet? They're not all stupid you know.

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"Gun Deaths" include self defence. Self defence is good. Murder is bad, even if no gun is used.

As a result, Japan has some of the lowest rates of gun death in the world, with around 0.06 firearms fatalities per 100,000 people. Here in the Land of the Free, where pretty much anyone can own a gun with minimal oversight or training, that figure is 10.2 deaths per 100,000 people.

"Gun Deaths" is a false category. What is wrong with it? It focusses on the method instead of culpability.

Firstly it combines culpable homicide, self-defence, and suicide, as if they were morally equally problematic. Secondly it suggests that gun homicides make up a category of murders which would not otherwise exist. Neither of these rhetorical devices is legitimate, but both are necessary to make out that guns are a real problem.

* Suicide rates are similar in most countries, but in the USA the gun is often the method of choice. Take the guns away and there are plenty of bridges. There is no reason to think the overall level of suicide will change, since suicide is a deliberate act.

* "Domestic Gun Homicide" is much higher in the USA as the anti-gun campaigners will tell you. It is also much higher in US states with high levels of gun ownership in the home. However in this statistic "homicide" conflates self-defence and murder. And "Gun Homicide" excludes fatal stabbing and beatings. If you add back the non-gun domestic homicides, there is little difference in overall "domestic homicide" rates. But if you then separate out those into murder and self defence an interesting picture emerges. States with low levels of gun ownership have 90% murder, 10% self defence, 90% female fatalities, mostly non-gun deaths. States with high levels of gun ownership have 50% murder, 50% self defence, 50% female fatalities, 50% gun deaths. In other words the high levels of "Domestic Gun Homicide" is almost entirely accounted for by **women defending themselves**.

So there.

The USA does have a high level of murder, but if you exclude drug and gang turf wars, that vanishes too. If you are not yourself a criminal, your risk of murder is no higher in the USA than the UK.

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Do a closer comparison

Better to compare the USA to Canada and don't allow subjectivity to cloud the issue by comparing the USA to dissimilar European or Asian cultures.

.

A lot of the USA/Canada factors are broadly similar including gun ownership ratio,

However the gun murder rates are very different.

Conclusion: It's culture not gun ratio that is the issue.

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Re: Do a closer comparison

The rates are different because old farts aren't going to trek 50 miles through a blizzard just to pop a cap in someone's backside but little punks only have to go one block to have a drug turf war. You'd have to break it down to population centers that are similar to get a more accurate picture.

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Re: Do a closer comparison

Believe it or not, Canada does actually have a few places where there are more than ten people per hundred miles now. Or were you attempting to make a funny?

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Re: Do a closer comparison

It was an attempt to humorously point out that you can't make a blanket comparison between Canada and the US because there are too many other variables like weather, age, population density, gang activity, etc.. You wind up with the same problem comparing California with New Hampshire or even all of New England (which makes the population density more equal) but you might be able to compare parts of Metro NY with Metro Los Angeles (maybe only for certain periods when the weather is similar) or Vancouver, BC with Seattle, WA.

The "closer comparison" turns out to be not very close at all. For population density alone it's nearly an order of magnitude difference between the US and Canada.

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huge difference in (mono)culture

you could airdrop real guns all over Japan and most of them would be turned into the police, with most of the remainder kept as a collectible (ooh! Series 1 original with the Airdrop paint scheme!). Any significant increase in violence would be primarily accidents and small children.

Here you have an ever growing self-limiting "victim class" who is led to believe every failure is "someone else's fault" or an "-ism" which leads to no desire to improve oneself but increasing hatred at those you believe who "held you down". A gun and a million grudges are a dangerous combination.

Different place, different people. Lack of diversity helps keep friction down too.

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Anonymous Coward

So just print the lower receiver ...

Are there style points associated with printing every last piece-part of the gun?

Why not just buy a metal barrel? http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/26_635/Barrels/

The barrels are not regulated or restricted or serial numbered.

The only part you really need to print is the lower receiver. That is the part that is regulated.

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