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back to article Windows Phone: Just as well Microsoft bought an Android maker, RIGHT?

If you believe those who are less than impressed by "Nokiadroid" offerings, Nokia's Android phones are an embarrassment for their new owner. Jokers have quipped that whenever Microsoft's Windows Phone chief Joe Belfiore is asked about it, he reacts like a teenager whose divorced dad has been seen dating a young stripper. But …

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Microsoft Linux

This (ancient) website was meant as a parody, right? http://www.mslinux.org

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Stop

Re: Microsoft Linux

Nah. The parody was Xenix. That was one of the xIX platforms I helped target back in the late 80s. The infamous SCO Unix was another and the last member of the trifecta was IBM AIX. Interesting to see that of the three only AIX is still going.

I'd like to say 'Ah, happy days'.

But I can't.

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Re: Microsoft Linux

> ... Xenix. That was one of the xIX platforms I helped target back in the late 80s. The infamous SCO Unix was another and the last member of the trifecta was IBM AIX.

No. SCO 'Unix' was not 'another .. of the trifecta'. Microsoft sold Xenix to SCO who eventually renamed it SCO OpenServer when they updated it to a later release of AT&T.

There was Unixware which was developed by USL and Novell. SCO eventually bought this too and then sold the lot to Caldera who renamed themselves 'The SCO Group' to confuse people (and become infamous).

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Re: Microsoft Linux

Ahh SCO… the only OS I know that requires you to re-link the kernel to change an IP address.

At least that's the case with OpenServer 5. I know of one company that still runs it. We've just helped them replace their main servers with Ubuntu 12.04, and one by one they're slowly swapping out their old SCO boxes for Linux ones.

The modem links are getting more reliable as a result. (SCO's serial driver is a bit flakey with more modern hardware and frequently dropped data.)

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Re: Microsoft Linux

No. SCO 'Unix' was not 'another .. of the trifecta'. Microsoft sold Xenix to SCO who eventually renamed it SCO OpenServer when they updated it to a later release of AT&T

Oh, didn't realise that. Perhaps we were just targeting two versions then? It was such a long, long time ago and I were only a wee nipper back then. First and last time I worked on xIX, next job was DOS and Win16 and that was that :)

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Re: Microsoft Linux

There was also another alternative - Interactive UNIX; I think that ended up gobbled up by Sun somehow.

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Re: Microsoft Linux

Don't forget Choherent which avoided '...IX' naming entirely. I mad several production systems for TNT using that! - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coherent_%28operating_system%29

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Anonymous Coward

No such luck

Microsoft will do what they always do, support a system/product against their wishes with such piss poor-support that, rather than inviting the customer to 'upgrade' to a Microsoft product, (s)he will simply pass onto something better.

Sure the new X range is cheap, but it would take a full commitment on the part of Microsoft to support and enhance it, otherwise the next wave of hardware from the other manufacturers will simply shoot past them.

Given the proven track record of WP updates/improvements over the past three years, and their inexperience running a phone company of the size of Nokia, I seriously doubt that they'll be able to keep the Android range alive.

In fact, internally, it'll prove that there's no money to be made pursuing this "strategy" and they'll focus on WP exclusively because eff you that's why

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Re: No such luck

The usual modus is to shove out a crappy product with little support, let it die a death in the market and then proclaim they're killing it because nobody was interested in it.

It happened with Internet Explorer for Unix and Services for Unix. Two flawed but potentially useful bits of software which they sent out to die.

I expect the Nokia X will suffer the same fate but it depends if actually sells or not. By bet is "not" because Nokia decided to fork Android without any of the Google bits which makes it part of the wider ecosystem.

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Re: No such luck

> Given the proven track record of WP updates/improvements over the past three years,

The 'proven track record' from MS in mobile is dumping products and replacing them with incompatible ones. Windows Mobile 6.x was dumped, Kin was dumped, Windows Phone 7 was dumped with no upgrade to WP8 and no compatibility. Only now they are replacing the development with one that is almost compatible with Windows RT and 'Metro' on Win8.

> it'll prove that there's no money to be made pursuing this "strategy"

They have said that they may not charge for WP licences, though it seems to be for a limited time and specific markets. That won't make them money either. The 'strategy' is to lock the users into MS services even if that means selling at a loss (which Nokia has been doing for the last few years).

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Anonymous Coward

What is Windows Phone market?

Moto G is better at the entry level

There are a hundred better Android phones in the mid and high end.

Windows Phone is still as dead as it's always been, the app store is mostly barren aside from the usual fart apps, and the OS and phones still don't offer what consumers come to expect from a smartphone.

Above all, it's Microsoft, who have an abysmal history with hardware, privacy and dodgy dealings.

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Re: What is Windows Phone market?

As opposed to Google, who have an abysmal history with privacy and dodgy dealings?

They **ALL** suck.

Actually, Microsoft's hardware has been some of their best products. And I'm a Moto G owner myself.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What is Windows Phone market?

I have 2x phones:

Personal: Moto G (unlocked not on contract)

Work: Nokia Lumia 625

I find them much of a muchness in terms of every day usability.

The Windows Phone start screen after a little getting used to is actually quite nice.

Camera is about the same.

Reliability the Nokia wins, not had to reboot it yet, and not had any app crashes, unlike the Moto G since upgrading to KitKat where it now goes through battery quicker and apps regularly crash and have to be restarted.

Battery Life the Moto G wins

App availability of course the Moto G wins, but to be honest I don't use more than 3 or 4 apps anyway.

Be interesting to see what Windows Phone 8.1 is like, but to be honest your comments about Windows Phone don't actually seem correct based upon my experience.

(Oh and Microsoft hardware has a history of being very good, their keyboards and mice are top rate in my experience. If you start introducing the XBox then I refer you to all the complaints about the PS3 and PS4 reliability as well as the complaints about XBox reliability)

In terms of privacy and dodgy dealings, I'd say that Google is a far bigger problem here than Microsoft - or did you not notice the "don't be evil" disappeared a while ago when they realised they could make more money being evil!

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(Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

Re: What is Windows Phone market?

That's a fair summary.

Yes, the Google subsidy that makes the Moto G cheap is the value of your privacy. Most people don't care about privacy. Discuss.

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Re: What is Windows Phone market?

>They **ALL** suck.

Thank you for saying that. I'm still waiting for a proper replacement for my 808, which I still use after suffering through months of WP8 and while Symbian is not exactly flawless, it's far from being as obnoxious as the rest.

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Re: What is Windows Phone market?

I don't believe Microsoft want to help protect your privacy for a second. They are just not as good as google when it comes to collecting and selling your info, yet.

I used to use Bing to find official support sites as you didn't get as much crap as Google. No more, now it's even worse when you try a simple search for a make and model of something.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What is Windows Phone market?

Google are much more transparent on how they use your data and give you migrating and proper deletion options. Microsoft don't...

No brainer. Google give you a lot and it's very clear what the deal is. Microsoft are just devious scumbags use your data anyway, obfuscate what they do with a complicated privacy policy and STILL charge you for things Google give you for free.

If you think Microsoft are any more ethical than Google , think again. You have been conned by the press into believing that. I wonder how many people for example even know Microsoft have a street view of their own, driving around towns WiFi slurping.... not many as the press don't want to talk about it for some reason. Go figure...

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FAIL

Re: What is Windows Phone market?

As opposed to Google, who have an abysmal history with privacy and dodgy dealings?

So Microsoft is currently the champion of our rights? When did that happen because I must have missed it. Secure boot, DRM, etc. And, of course, Bing, Maps, etc. don't phone home to tell Microsoft what the users are doing,

Besides if you don't like the security settings on Android, stick on Cyanogenmod which allows you to manage permissions per app including disabling them by default.

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"reacts like a teenager whose divorced dad has been seen dating a young stripper"

Perfect.

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A young stripper called Fernando

That is all

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Facepalm

The entire enterprise...

is the worlds largest face palm fail moment, M$ knows nothing about mobile devices, nor has it learnt after getting its fingers burnt (Hello Zune)

Nokia, market leader in mobiles / smart phones manage to flush it all away by basically having no clue what so ever what was happening. The only saving grace is Nokia hardware is (was) pretty good. Well, was until about 12 months ago. Have you seen the screen burn in on demo Nokias? WTF is happening there.

This will go on for about 18 months or so, until M$ dumps the whole lot, and Nokia just builds some good Android hand sets, it would have more than a chance to rival Samsung et al, like it *should have done 2 years ago*

M$ would have been better trying to buy RIM, they at least have some competent people, although the management have managed to mixed up their aftershave with the way the wind is blowing. Maybe a realty fist in the face could bring them back. Windows phone is currently an also ran, and will stay that way unless Apple and Andriod do a Nokia, which probably won't happen certainly not in the next 2 - 4 years.

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Anonymous Coward

"reacts like a teenager whose divorced dad has been seen dating a young stripper."

For those of us not versed in divorces, teenagers, or strippers, it would be useful if you could expand a bit this description so that we can form ourselves a mental picture of how a teenager behaves when his/her divorced dad starts dating a stripper.

I mean, divorced people? Yes. Teenagers? Yes. Combining the two? Check. Strippers? Not so much. Dating strippers? Nope. This is The Register, you know.

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Re: "reacts like a teenager whose divorced dad has been seen dating a young stripper."

Maybe a Playmobil re-enactment of the divorcee/stripper/teenager combo would help here.

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Re: "reacts like a teenager whose divorced dad has been seen dating a young stripper."

I think we need a "I think this would be better demonstrated using playmobil figures" icon... :)

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android hackers v MS - wonder who'll win?

It's going to be fun watching the battle between hackers and MS to keep Google apps off these devices. The most common thing heard from buyers of cheap Chinese Android is 'how do I install Google Market/Play'. You can sell devices without Google but it much harder making them actually use alternatives when the physical device is in their hands.

MS would be wise to not rely on driving use of 2nd rated services like Bing, or high data/high cost use on whatever today's name for their cloud is. Make Office work better on their devices and maybe they have a chance.

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Anonymous Coward

I actually like Windows phone

Compared to Android, it's crisp, and tidy. Shame about the lack of apps.

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Re: I actually like Windows phone

Ummm, [shuffles feet], [looks a bit embaressed]....

I quite like my Nokia 920 Windows 8 Phone too.

Fast well made, cheap and does what I need it to do very well.

Yes the app store is a bit thin but most of what you need is there just minus the 500k of garbage that's in the play store too.

It's a very good phone, camera and sat nav. But maybe not the 'lifestyle device' that people expect with Apple and Samsung.

Strangely I've come to the conclusion lately that I probably trust MS more with my data than Google or Apple. I spoke to someone very well versed in security/IA at spooky high levels and he agreed (although he was sticking with his Blackberry).

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I actually like Windows phone

Guessing you picked the wrong Android phone then. My Nexus 5 is crisp, tidy uber-responsive, great batter life, decent camera, and tonnes of apps.

Most of all, nobody will laugh at you if you take an Android or an iphone out your pocket....

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Anonymous Coward

@AC

Most of all, nobody will laugh at you if you take an Android or an iphone out your pocket....

Sorry, I was talking about serious work issues, not being with your mates down the pub.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I actually like Windows phone

"Shame about the lack of apps."

Windows Phone now has over 250,000 apps - not much missing that most people care about anymore. Even BBM is coming soon.

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Re: I actually like Windows phone

Except a Nexus 5 is 400 dollars (in the US), the 920 can be had for $200 equivalent here (Tesco).

The Nexus 5 is 5 inches, bigger and possibly unwieldy for some looking for smaller (like me).

The camera may be comparable but the 920 is hard to actually beat, I imagine the Nexus 5 has OIS in software, like iPhones, not a patch on the Nokia tech.

Being a large phone perhaps the battery life is good - the battery is only 15% larger capacity but perhaps the tech uses less juice despite having more cores. However, the 920 battery life is very good.

And, the Nexus 5 has wireless charging, built-in, like the 920.

All in all, sounds like a good phone, especially if you like, or can tolerate, the bigger screen and more pixels.

But, it costs twice as much, so I could buy myself and a someone else a 920 for the same money, therefore they may be similar but they cannot be compared.

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Re: I actually like Windows phone

Why so many downvotes for somebody simply for saying that they like a product? Bizarre.

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Re: I actually like Windows phone

Why so many downvotes for somebody simply for saying that they like a product? Bizarre.

Because this topic is fan-troll bait, including as it does the topics of Windows Phone and Android in one therefore even rational posts are going to get lots of spurious down votes but few counter-arguments.

The only comment I'd have about the above poster's comparison is that IMHO he's not comparing like-for-like devices, but given the number of devices and combinations of features and devices it's hard to really compare devices objectively.

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Re: I actually like Windows phone

That's one of the top, most expensive Android phones. Even the cheapest WP model ($80 off contract?) is crisp, tidy and ultra-responsive. Find an Android phone that cheap that doesn't stutter.

And as for people laughing at you - what weirdos do you hang around with?

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Re: I actually like Windows phone

Yeah, but of those 250,000 Windows Phone apps, about 240,000 (in round numbers) are dodgy clones of faddish games (Flappy Penguin, anyone?) And about 9000 of the rest are competing versions of basic utilities (e.g. shopping lists) that you have to choose between with no basis for comparison, so the "competition" is purely arbitrary and will be won by whoever has the best packaging.

I have a Windows phone, and have been quite frustrated by the hunt for any game absorbing enough to be worth getting out to play while sitting at a bus stop or on the toilet. To be clear, what I'm looking for is something like 'Hayday' (available for iOS or Android), which repays long-term investment but allows playing in casual time windows.

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Anonymous Coward

Microsoft shoud just bolt on the ability to side load Android applications to Windows Phone - assuming that can be done without compromising the much better security and performance of the Windows Phone OS compared to Android.

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Anonymous Coward

LOL, better security on Windows Phone... How so? Android has very good security infact, each application runs under it's own user account, applications can't steal other applications data, the only inter-process communications are official intents.

Everyone with a brain knows that the Android security "problem" is a myth that virus companies make a living from selling idiots protection against something that's not real.

If you shop in the Google Play store, and don't side-load apps from random internet websites (after disabling the huge malware warning that Google present you), then you are just fine.

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Anonymous Coward

"LOL, better security on Windows Phone... How so?"

Zero known vulnerabilities on Windows Phone 8. Dozens on Android.

Windows Phone is secure enough out of the box to meet US military security requirements. Android required bolt ons like Knox.

Windows Phone uses relatively secure application platform languages like subsets of .Net - whereas Android uses the colander that is Java.

Windows Phone is based on the Windows kernel - which has had ~ an order of magnitude fewer security vulnerabilities than the Android Linux based kernel over a similar time period.

Android has tens of thousands of malware applications - both in the Google Play store and everywhere else. Windows Phone has had zero malware to date.

Windows Phone is very hard to root, and because of secure boot, it is very hard to make permanent changes to the code even if rooted. Android is easy to root and it is simple to permanently compromise the code once rooted.

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"If you shop in the Google Play store, and don't side-load apps from random internet websites (after disabling the huge malware warning that Google present you), then you are just fine."

You are aware that numerous apps in the Google Play store have been found to contain malware, right?

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2099421/report-malwareinfected-android-apps-spike-in-the-google-play-store.html

And that is what people mean when they describe Android as having security problems.

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> whereas Android uses the colander that is Java.

No it doesn't. It uses the Dalvik VM - completely different from the Java VMs. Newer versions of Android can use the ART VM which is also not a Java VM.

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You can sideload. And you can access direct OS updates through their developer preview app, which is just an easy way round carrier agreements - you don't need to be a developer or pay anything to get the app.

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he reacts like a teenager whose divorced dad has been seen dating a young stripper.

What you mean like

Cool Dad, and I thought you were passed it.

Now, about this pocket money, oh and does Mum know?

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WP Major Problem

It's App market is piss poor.

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Re: WP Major Problem

Major problem? Yes. Only problem? No.

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Short Memory Syndrome

MS will keep Android phones going under its aegis most likely at an attractive price point because it suits them to sell as many as possible then begin to ckuf up Android then slowly merge it into the MS ethos.

Embrace, extend ......

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Joke

It's OK everyone.

You don't need to post anything else, I can take it from here. I already know which fanboi flames will be said, trolls fed, horses flogged until they're dead...

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Holmes

Re: It's OK everyone.

Correct.

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I hope the Services division takes some advice from the Azure guys here. They make a point of ensuring that Azure SDKs for non-MS languages are at feature parity with (and sometimes ahead of) the .net SDKs. The thinking is exactly that they want people to use Azure,let them do it in whatever language they want.

If they go the same way with the X models, it could work out very well for them. As stated in the article, it shouldn't matter what device people use, they should all be able to access MS services if they want to. Being cross-platform gets people dependent on and familiar with your services on their current platform, making them more likely to think of MS when their next upgrade comes along.

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Paris Hilton

Contracts

Mobile Phone Contracts are so last decade.

Paris because she doesn't want to be tied down either..... oh, wait, that may not be strictly true.....

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In Europe Apple has held steady – buoyed, no doubt, by saturation advertising.

"Samsung to spend ENTIRE budget of London 2012 OLYMPICS... on ADS"

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/28/samsung_plans_to_outspend_76_countries_gdp/

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