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back to article MtGox chief Karpelès refuses to come to US for g-men's grilling

Mark Karpelès, the founder of imploded Bitcoin exchange MtGox, says he won't come to the US to answer officials' questions after his trading website mislaid 850,000 BTC. Lawyers for MtGox said Karpelès had received a subpoena from the US Department of Treasury's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) to come to a …

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And how is he paying for his attack dogs ^H^H^H lawyers

Interesting how he has time to pick and chose a very specific (and expensive) legal team. I do wonder where this cash to pay them came from......

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Re: Stuart 39 Re: And how is he paying for his attack dogs ^H^H^H lawyers

"....I do wonder where this cash to pay them came from......" Somehow I doubt they agreed to take payment in Bitcoins.

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Holmes

I wouldn't want to set one foot on American soil either...

Because once you there you're subject to their laws !

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Re: I wouldn't want to set one foot on American soil either...

You are subject to their laws standing on the peak of Mount Everest. The Supreme Court upheld that American law can be enforced globally.

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Re: I wouldn't want to set one foot on American soil either...

They do find it rather harder to enforce thee laws in some locations though.

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Re: Nonesuch Re: I wouldn't want to set one foot on American soil either...

".....The Supreme Court upheld that American law can be enforced globally." Yeah, like Universal Jurisdiction is sooooo Yanks only, right? I suppose it escaped your bigoted view to note that European countries such as Spain and Belgium have taken upon themselves the right to charge anyone in any country with war crimes, even in cases where neither party involved has nothing at all to do with Europe. It is the basis for the International Court of Justice, a body very popular with professional handwringers like Amnesty International.

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Re: Nonesuch I wouldn't want to set one foot on American soil either...

You hate Amnesty International too? Jesus Matt, why don't you go drown some kittens or something.

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Re: Anonymous Cluetard Re: Nonesuch I wouldn't want to set one foot on American soil either...

".... why don't you go drown some kittens or something." Because I like kittens, you unimaginative sheeple.

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Re: Nonesuch I wouldn't want to set one foot on American soil either... @Matt Bryant

> have taken upon themselves the right to charge anyone in any country with war crimes, even in cases where neither party involved has nothing at all to do with Europe

Mismanagement of a novel currency is not the same as trying to enforce justice regarding events of genocide, torture, rape as a weapon of war, ditto mutilation, the use of child soldiers, that kind of thing.

> with professional handwringers like Amnesty International.

Are you for or against genocide, torture, rape, child soldiers, mutilations etc? Please be clear in your answer, thanks.

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Re: Anonymous Cluetard Nonesuch I wouldn't want to set one foot on American soil either...

"you unimaginative sheeple"

Unimaginative sheeple eh? You really have no sense of irony at all, do you Matt?

https://www.google.co.uk/#q=site:theregister.co.uk+matt+bryant+sheeple

I didn't have time to see what kind of returns I'd get from your other stock phrases.

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Re: Boring Green Re: Nonesuch I wouldn't want to set one foot on American soil either....

"Mismanagement of a novel currency is not the same as trying to enforce justice regarding events of genocide, torture, rape as a weapon of war, ditto mutilation, the use of child soldiers, that kind of thing...." Hey, it was your shrieking fellow sheeple that made out it was completely unreasonable for the US to use it's laws abroad, I simply pointed out a very obvious example of other countries doing the same. You might also want to know that the EU applies EU banking laws to foreign banks too. Oh, then again probably not, as it might actually cause you to stop and think.

"....Are you for or against genocide, torture, rape, child soldiers, mutilations etc?...." I am against. I'm also against leftie organisations with anti-Semitic trackrecords and downright selective application of their 'principles'. Especially ones that employ a Nazi collabarator and terrorist like Sean Macbride, the most ironic choice for Nobel Peace Prize right up to Obambi's farcial award.

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Re: Andrew Ferni Re: Anonymous Cluetard Nonesuch I wouldn't want to set one foot.....

"......I didn't have time to see what kind of returns I'd get from your other stock phrases." I resist the urge to use too many descriptives for you sheeple as it only serves to confuse you. I take it from your dribbling response that you are one of those misty-eyed, wannabe rebel types that thinks Amnesty International are some sort of untaintable font of moral wisdom? I bet you clapped with righteous fervour when they moronically tried to compare the suffering of the Gulags with Gitmo, unable to comprehend the simple silliness of comparing Gitmo with Stalin's 'final solution' and the 39,000,000 people that died in such camps. What am I saying - you sheeple never do any research into the causes and organistaions you zealously and blindly support, let alone have the slightest grasp of history, so why would you have even have the foggiest notion of the daft depths AI has plummeted to?

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Re: Andrew Ferni Anonymous Cluetard Nonesuch I wouldn't want to set one foot.....

> that thinks Amnesty International are some sort of untaintable font of moral wisdom?

An udder Plump and Bleaty tactic; ascribe to those who disagree some absurdly extreme position then attack them for it.

So, in contrast to Amnesty, as your counsel such perfection in others, I wonder what good you've done in this world. Let us know. (NB, token production of meat and wool don't count). Seriously, show us the goods. Something verifiable as I know you can be a bit 'careless' with facts.

Show us.

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Re: Andrew Ferni Anonymous Cluetard Nonesuch I wouldn't want to set one foot.....

"I resist the urge to use too many descriptives for you shee-"<monotonous troll speech snipped>

Actually, I wasn't commenting on Amnesty, or offering an opinion. I was just commenting on the amusement value derived from you calling anyone unimaginative, when you are constitutionally incapable of writing a post without resorting to the use of the non-word 'sheeple'. But thanks for playing.

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Re: Andrew Ferni Anonymous Cluetard Nonesuch I wouldn't want to set one foot.....

> 39,000,000 people that died in such camps. What am I saying - you sheeple never do any research into the causes and organistaions you zealously and blindly support, let alone have the slightest grasp of history

Will the history professor point to the source that establishes the number of 39 million people having died in gulags and explain how other much lower estimates are proven wrong, permitting you to pass this male bovine manure off as fact?

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Re: I wouldn't want to set one foot on American soil either...

Yes, we forget that our own country always feels safer than another - presumably because we are OK with what is familiar. People in China feel safe there. People in Russia feel comfortable. I think that Americans sometimes forget that when someone in a foreign country reads all the stories in the news about the US violence, particularly by police and government, then they can feel apprehensive about going there.

I'm sure that the rule of law if frequently upheld in the US, but don't forget that the high profile and controversial rulings are the ones that people see around the world. The recent news stories about the release of torture reports doesn't look friendly either. I think a foreigner can be forgiven for not feeling that the US is a safe place to visit - especially if the government is already pointing a finger at you.

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Re: I wouldn't want to set one foot on American soil either...

You mean like Assange is in yours?! If you lot love freedom that much than allow him to go on about his business then.

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Re: I wouldn't want to set one foot on American soil either...

I don't believe that Assange has ever been to my country. But yes, I agree that Britain does sound like a scary place if you read the news.

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Re: I wouldn't want to set one foot on American soil either...

@Michael touche. Don't get me wrong I hate many of the things my government (US) does but it is easy to see some hypocrisy and smugness coming out of the UK readership that perhaps doesn't know or have forgotten their own colonial history. Even today their government commits some of the same transgressions as the evil empire.

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Re: Boring Green Nonesuch I wouldn't want to set one foot on American soil either....

"with anti-Semitic trackrecords"

I can find no history whatsoever of Amnesty International attacking jews. Only Israel - which is a very different thing. Which seeing as Israel is a widely acknowledged terrorist state and notorious human rights abuser is hardly surprising bearing in mind the purpose of Amnesty International.

A bit rich complaining about Sean Macbride when a number of Israel's prime ministers have previously been well known terrorists. At least MacBride has renounced violence unlike Israel. He is extremely well qualified for the job of assessing Israel's numerous human rights abuses - MacBride's work was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize (1974) as a man who "mobilised the conscience of the world in the fight against injustice". He later received the Lenin Peace Prize (1975–76) and the UNESCO Silver Medal for Service (1980).

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Re: Boring Green Re: Andrew Ferni Anonymous Cluetard Nonesuch I wouldn't.....

"....I wonder what good you've done in this world. Let us know...." You seriously think I'm going to share any personal history with 'us' (presumably you and the voices in your head)? Nice try at your usual - avoiding the argument and attempting to divert into a personal attack. Still your usual un imaginative, boring self, I see. Please do try harder. I notice you are desperate to avoid any discussion of AI, could that be because you know SFA about them?

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Re: Andrew Ferni Anonymous Cluetard Nonesuch I wouldn't want to set one foot.....

"....I was just commenting on the amusement value derived from you calling anyone unimaginative....." As I said, it helps to not confuse you sheeple with too many long words, and you do all so enjoy the sense of 'belonging to something bigger', even if you don't have a clue as to what you're protesting.

".....But thanks for playing." Well, I suppose it was too much to expect you to actually formulate a defence of AI, hasn't one been spoonfed to you?

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Re: Anon Cluetard Re: Andrew Ferni Anonymous Cluetard Nonesuch I wouldn't.....

"Will the history professor point to the source that establishes the number of 39 million people having died in gulags...." Interesting that the argument you choose is not to try and justify AI's hilarious comparison, but to instead attack the figure. Bit unsure of your ground? Of course, it is impossible to give an accurate figure for the number of Russians and non-Russians that Stalin killed in his purges and the Gulags, the GRU and NKVD were far too good at covering their tracks. The figure of 39 million is the high-end estimate, but even if you want to only use the small number of files that the KGB and GRU could not destroy after the fall of the USSR, you still get a verifiable figure of 1.6 million people for the Gulags. Please do take time to try and argue that 1.6m people verifiably worked to death somehow compares to Gitmo, if only for the comedy value your desperate blathering will inevitably provide.

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Re: Michael Habel Re: I wouldn't want to set one foot on American soil either...

"You mean like Assange is in yours?! If you lot love freedom that much than allow him to go on about his business then." A$$nut was given full recourse to both Swedish and English law and instead chose to put himself where he is. He is free to leave his hid eyehole any time he likes, just as long as he is willing to face his accusers in Sweden.

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Re: AC Re: Boring Green Nonesuch I wouldn't want to set one foot on American soil....

".....I can find no history whatsoever of Amnesty International attacking jews....." Ah, another one that wants to pretend that AI's disproportionate focus on Israel is nothing to do with anti-Semitism.

"....At least MacBride has renounced violence....." Macbride 'renounced violence' when it was politically convenient for him to do so. He was still silent on his part in and knowledge of the many murders the IRA committed, both in Northern Ireland and Eire itself, whilst he was the IRA's Director of Intelligence. Macbride made a point, right up to his death and long after any possibility of charging any IRA members, of not helping the families of the victims of the IRA find the bodies of their loved ones. He couldn't be quite as quiet about his collaborating with the Nazis, but all the lefties seem happier to ignore that. Right up until his death, including the Macbride Principles of 1984, he was still pushing the IRA and pro-Catholic agenda.

".....unlike Israel....." Israel has made it clear that they will accept peace if the Arabs stop trying to kill them. Right back to 1948 the Arabs have been trying to destroy Israel, please do explain (in what you obviously think is an 'non-anti-Semitic' way) why the Israelis should not be allowed to defend their sovereign state in exactly the same way as every other sovereign state (oh, and please note that the 'Palestinian state' is not legally a sovereign state)?

"....He is extremely well qualified for the job...." Really, from beyond the grave? He died in 1988. I suggest you do a lot more research before your next bout of bleating. But of course, your idea of 'qualified' was probably reached when you saw he was a leftie, anti-NATO, anti-nuke, and Europhile, and probably by his being one-time UN High Commissioner for Refugees (the body which grants the 'Palestinians' the perpetual and completely unique status of 'refugees') and High Commissioner for Human Rights (yes, the old UN CHR, so criticized for its poor record on allowing countries with serious human rights violations onto the Council that the UN had to scrap it and replace it with the just as bad UN HRC, which is so anti-Semitic that it voted Iran onto its board and has been described as having lost all credibility by the US). Yeah, no possible issues for concern there - not!

".....the Nobel Peace Prize (1974)...." As I said, probably the most ludicrous example of the Award right up until Obambi got his.

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Re: Boring Green Andrew Ferni Anonymous Cluetard Nonesuch I wouldn't..... @Plump & Bleaty

> You seriously think I'm going to share any personal history

In short, you've done nothing of value.

> and attempting to divert into a personal attack

You're so good at bitching at the ineptitude of others I thought I allow you the chance to show how much better you were. That does not constitute a personal attack. Describing you as tedious would, but I'm not going to do that.

> I notice you are desperate to avoid any discussion of AI, could that be because...

... because you raised the issue of Amnesty International, not me? Correct. My post did not refer to them except by copying from yours.

More wool from plumpy.

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Re: Anon Cluetard Andrew Ferni Anonymous Cluetard Nonesuch I wouldn't.....

I wasn't arguing in favour of Amnesty. What I was doing is taking issue with you quoting 39 million Gulag deaths as fact. Delighted to see you've read up on it since.

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Re: Andrew Ferni Anonymous Cluetard Nonesuch I wouldn't want to set one foot.....

"As I said, it helps to not confuse you sheeple with too many long words"

Not to worry Matt, in your case there's no danger of that, of long words, or even particularly varied ones.

"Well, I suppose it was too much to expect you to actually formulate a defence of AI, hasn't one been spoonfed to you?"

I'm not all that interested to be honest.

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Re: AC Boring Green Nonesuch I wouldn't want to set one foot on American soil....

"pretend that AI's disproportionate focus on Israel is nothing to do with anti-Semitism"

It's quite obviously because of Israel's disproportionate focus and extensively documented lack of observance of human rights. There is zero evidence of any focus on jews.

"Macbride 'renounced violence' when it was politically convenient for him to do so"

He renounced violence and has been a tireless campaigner against it since.

"He was still silent on his part in and knowledge of the many murders the IRA committed"

It is well documented that he actively opposed the IRAs attack plans and tried to find peaceful solutions - even before he renouced violence.

"Right back to 1948 the Arabs have been trying to destroy Israel"

Hardly surprising when the zionists ignored the agreements that had been made under the madate for Palestine and took military control of towns that were supposed to remain arab. The first agression was from the zionists - and that was after a long terrorist campaign against the British and others, which then switched to attacking arabs and expelling the indigenous population.

The ancient egyptians document Palestine as a region before the original state of Israel even existed. And the indiginous Palestinian arabs are mostly more genetically 'semitic' than the Israeli jews - who are largely European in origin!

"Israel has made it clear that they will accept peace if the Arabs stop trying to kill them"

Whilst never offering the required things to achieve peace - a right of return for those forcibly expelled from their homelands and a return to the 1948 borders including East Jerusalem as part of a contiguous Palestinian territory. Israel could have achieved peace at little cost decades ago if it wanted. It has instead taken the deliberate decision to try and eliminate the Palestinians and grab as much prime territory as possible instead.

"He is extremely well qualified for the job...." Really, from beyond the grave"

His qualifications are no less valid now then when he exposed Israel as the aggressor in his now famous and widely respected report.

"which is so anti-Semitic that it voted Iran onto its board and has been described as having lost all credibility by the US"

Iran has a somewhat better track record on human rights than either the US or Israel. A much better record of not invading / attacking other countries too...

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Re: Boring Green Andrew Ferni Anonymous Cluetard Nonesuch I wouldn't.....

".....In short, you've done nothing of value...." LOL, still trying with the personal attacks because you can't think of an argument (and when I write 'think' I mean that you can't find a canned counter from your usual spoonfeeding, right-think sources)? Well, I suppose you could say I have done nothing of 'value' seeing as value is itself intrinsic dependent on the beholder's own values. I may have done plenty that most responsible, educated, intelligent and law-abiding citizens - who don't follow envy politics or are mindlessly enslaved to the latest fashionable 'thought' - would consider of value, but then I can see why that would equate to zero for you.

"....You're so good at bitching at the ineptitude of others I thought I allow you the chance to show how much better you were...." Why do the lefties always think everyone is just dying to shriek 'me, me, me', just because their icons are so egotistical? Seriously, you need to realise there is more than just a difference in political views here, there are many of us that you obvisouly have not encountered (no doubt due to your sheltered life in the flock) that are better mannered and don't seek to promote self at every opportunity. I can only encourage you to get out more, meet a few people outside your tiny circle of the hip'n'trendy, and try immersing yourself in the many different points of view and lifestyles you so obviously have not had a chance to meet before. Do remember to tell your Mommie where you're going out to play, she'll probably want you back before teatime.

"... because you raised the issue of Amnesty International...." And you're still avoiding it. Just add it to your reading list and try and come prepared next time. TTFN!

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Re: Predictable Cluetard Re: Anon Cluetard Andrew Ferni Anonymous Cluetard Nonesuch...

"....What I was doing is taking issue with you quoting 39 million Gulag deaths as fact...." LOL, I posted it because I knew the response it instantly provokes from lefties. They really don't like the fact that Stalin's Workers' Paradise actually killed more of his own people than died in WW2, it really puts the whole 'Patriotic War' thing in focus, right?

"....Delighted to see you've read up on it since." Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn (some of the reading I did beforehand), the famous writer and critic of Stalin's rule and victim of the Gulag system, actually claimed the true number of Stalin’s victims might have been as high as 60 million. We'll never know for sure unless we invent time travel, and I'm sure there are plenty of lefties just keen not to find out at all. So hard to rail on about the Right and insist on the 'delights' of Socialism when a few facts get around! I'm not surprised you took issue with the figure, your lot always do. So delighted to see you take the bait.

Oh, and I see you're still steering well-clear of the rediculous comparison of AI's - cat got your anonymous tongue?

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Re: Andrew Ferni Anonymous Cluetard Nonesuch I wouldn't want to set one foot.....

"....in your case there's no danger of that, of long words, or even particularly varied ones...." Like I said, I really wouldn't want to overwhelm the limited mental capabilities of you sheeple. Now, to keep it simple, do you want to try and debate AI or the US's 'improper' use of legal tools with regard to Karpeles? The former I suspect is far beyond your capabilities or knowledge, and I suspect the latter should really wait until you have had the assistance of an adult to read the article and realised that Mr Kapeles has started this course of action by applying for bankruptcy protection in the US. Please do take your time as I see Brid-Aine has used a few words that might challenge your limited vocabulary.

"....I'm not all that interested to be honest." Yeah, we all know that really translates to 'crap, I don't have a clue, best act cool and back out'.

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Re: Predictable Cluetard Anon Cluetard Andrew Ferni Anonymous Cluetard Nonesuch...

> LOL, I posted it because I knew the response it instantly provokes from lefties.

Yeah, sure, factual inaccuracies to evoke reactions from the great many Stalinists here on the Reg forums. It's plain to see you've been talking out of your arse - again - and caught doing it.

>>> The figure of 39 million is the high-end estimate

>> Delighted to see you've read up on it since.

> Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn (some of the reading I did beforehand), [...] claimed the true number of Stalin’s victims might have been as high as 60 million.

You're still desperately catching up, seeing you were passing off 39m as the high-end estimate a moment ago and have now in your frantic search come across 60m.

> Oh, and I see you're still steering well-clear of the rediculous comparison of AI's

I don't think the Gulag/Gitmo comparison makes sense. It's just in your head that everyone who doesn't agree with what you're saying is a Stalinist unconditionally loving AI.

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Re: AC Boring Green Nonesuch I wouldn't want to set one foot on American soil....

"....because of Israel's disproportionate focus and extensively documented lack of observance of human rights...." Israel, unlike its neighbours, is a proper democracy with rights for citizens that extend - just for example - to homosexuals and women. Please do try and claim that Israel's neighbouring Arab states extend the same level of rights to homosexuals (in Saudi, a crime with the death penalty) or women. Then explain AI's complete lack of interest in those flagrant breaches of human rights on the part of those Arab states, unless you want to contend that laws against homosexuality are just OK with you (careful, Hampton Caitlin might be reading and find out where you work....)?

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the large donations to AI and links with wealthy parties in said Arab states, such as Abd al-Rahman al Nuaimi (and nothing at all to do with AI's subsequent support for friends of al Nuaimi's that were members of an al Quaeda-linked Islamist group involved in a coup attempt in the UAE). Nor, I'm sure, why AI has protested shipments of defensive weaponary to Israel whilst ignoring arms smuggled into the Gaza Strip, Lebanon and West Bank that are only used for aggressive attacks on Israeli civilians. And who could possibly infer any form of bias might be why AI was so happy to publish a one-sided report into the 'war crimes' of the Israeli attack on Hezbollah in 2006, completely ignoring the many actual war crimes perpetrated by Hezbollah both before, during and after Israel's response? No, you're right, AI is completely whiter-than-white. Do I need sarc tags? I suggest a little reading - http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article/amnesty_international

"....He [Macbride] renounced violence and has been a tireless campaigner against it since....." Really? So please do provide a link to some of these vehement denials you want to claim he made. Please do give special prominence to any where he condemned the IRA's Border Campaign (1956-1962). Please don't lose heart when you discover that Macbride not only fully-supported the bombing campaign, but he withdrew the support of his Clann na Poblachta party from the Irish government when they arrested the IRA leadership in 1957. He also NEVER made a single statemnent that I can find condemning any murder commited by the IRA, be that murder of an English soldier or an Irish civilian. If he renounced violence as you claim, it was a very silent and selective renouncing. He was also notably silent on his collaboration with the Nazis, but then he was in good company with the Arabs at the UN on that front. Which probably explains your blind faith in him, seeing as the IRA and PLO have long been bossom buddies and have cross-trained and swapped arms and resources over the decades.

"....Hardly surprising when the zionists ignored the agreements that had been made under the madate for Palestine...." Again, you really need to go read some actual history books rather than be spoonfed propaganda. The Jews agreed the UN plan for the partitioning of the Mandate territories, even though 76% of the Mandate territories were given unquestioningly to the Arabs in the form of Transjordan, even though the area assigned to the Jews was much smaller than that promised, and even though many Jewish villages fell outside the designated Jewish area. This acceptance allowed them to proclaim the state of Israel with the UN's blessing. It was the Arabs that decided to reject the UN's partition plan because they could not accept any Jewish state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine).

"....The ancient egyptians document Palestine as a region before the original state of Israel even existed...." Male bovine manure. The Greeks originally refered to Falastin, the Romans later to the area of Syria Palestina. The Romans coined the term in an attempt to break up and diminish the Jewish Judaean Kingdom they had conquered in the area, which means the Jews predated any Arab claim to 'Palestine' by several thousand years. They Romans and Greeks both refered to larger general areas that covered most of southern Syria, the Lebanon, chunks of Iraq and Jordan. Even then, the modern day 'Palestinian' Arabs are descendents of Arabs that migrated out of the Saudi peninsular in 634AD, and there has NEVER been an historic people known as the 'Palestinians' as you claim. This is most amusingly demonstarted as a myth by the fact that the Arabs can't even say the word, having no hard 'p' in their vocabulary, instead having to say 'Falastin', a corruption of the ancient Greek term. Once again, you really need to go learn some facts.

"....Whilst never offering the required things to achieve peace...." Again, this is easy to demonstrate as a complete lie. At Camp David in 2000, Ehud Barak opened with an offer that surprised even Bill Clinton with its genorosity - 98% of all the PLO's demands met without even Arafat having to negotiate. Some cynics say it was a clever ploy by Barak to demonstrate that Arafat had no intention of negotiating, that the continuous and ever-changing demands of the PLO were intended to never be agreed so the PLO could claim that Israel did not want peace. Either way, instead of taking the best deal the PLO had ever since then or since (and far better than anyone expected the Israelis to offer), or even negotiating on it, Arafat instead walked out and called on his people to mount a second and suicidal Intifada. More recently, when the Abbas administration demanded a freeze on construction before peace negotiations could start, the Israelis called his bluff and froze construction for nine months, during which even the US admitted the 'Palestinians' did nothing more than constantly change their demands and agree nothing more than more aid money. The peace treaty with Egypt in 1976, when Israel gave up the oil-rich Sinai, is just one example of how Israel has a track record of wanting peace. The Palestinian Arabs demonstratably have none.

"....Iran has a somewhat better track record on human rights than either the US or Israel...." Nothing exposes your wilfull blindness more than that statement. I pity you. Human Rights Watch have a hard time ignoring Iran's horrific record on human rights violations:

http://www.hrw.org/world-report-2012/world-report-2012-iran

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Re: Sulking Cluetard Re: Predictable Cluetard Anon Cluetard Andrew Ferni.....

Aw, you still having a hard time accepting you got so easily caught out? I find it hard to accept it's the first time your ignorance has been so quickly exposed.

"....factual inaccuracies...." LOL, the fact you're desperate to portray the figure as 'inaccurate' exposes much more than you'd probably like to admit. Do you prefer Solzhenitsyn's figure of 60m, or would you like to deny that someone that directly suffered the Gulags might have some insight? What's next, are you going to deny the Gulags existed?

"....seeing you were passing off 39m as the high-end estimate a moment ago and have now in your frantic search come across 60m....." 39m is actually the figure to gain most consensus amongst modern historians with access to what remains of the records, those Gulag victims still alive, and the testimonies of those that were part of Stalin's brutal machine of repression. The 60m figure is a lot harder to justify seeing as there is a lot less evidence for it, therefore I would suggest the 39m figure is probably a safer bet. I see you are not even willing to submit your own figure, let alone actually justify your denial.

".....I don't think the Gulag/Gitmo comparison makes sense....." Finally, some sense! Oh, hold on, is that because you want to deny the Gulags existed? That all the 'victims' were criminals and 'traitors to the Revolution', and deserved what they got?

"....It's just in your head that everyone who doesn't agree with what you're saying is a Stalinist unconditionally loving AI." Well, seeing as you have avoided comment on AI, but mounted a rabid denial of the horrors of the Gulags, one would have to suggest your sympathies are towards the Stalinist revisioning of history.

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Re: Andrew Ferni Anonymous Cluetard Nonesuch I wouldn't want to set one foot.....

"Now, to keep it simple, do you want to try and debate AI or the US's 'improper' use of legal tools with regard to Karpeles?"

With you? Honestly? No. You see Matt, you're not even slightly interested in the 'debate' (because apparently you think that debate is what you do) you're simply waiting for the next confrontation in which you will triumphantly reaffirm how right you are and how everyone else is simply a cardboard cutout for you to hit with your verbal baseball bat of inanities (sheeple, cluetard, libtard, blahblah), once you've pinned the characteristics.of the things you hate to them by ascribing motives and ideologies that none of them actually have.

""....I'm not all that interested to be honest." Yeah, we all know that really translates to 'crap, I don't have a clue, best act cool and back out'."

Yep, you've got my number. I've been wandering round all day with a little speech bubble: "I sure wish I had as much of a clue as that Matt Bryant fellow, he knows what's what now he's painted every object, person, and concept on earth in vibrant shades of black and white."

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Re: Matt Bryant Manure

You've talked out of your arse, Matt, and you've been caught doing it. Suggesting I'm a Stalinist, revisionist and/or Gulag denier is not a surprising last resort, I have indeed noticed that's just the sort of thing you do when you fuck up and cannot bear to man up.

I'll continue to point out incidents of your rabid thoughtless writing where I feel like it, though. I just know it'll make you a better man eventually.

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Re: AC Boring Green Nonesuch I wouldn't want to set one foot on American soil....

> ".....I can find no history whatsoever of Amnesty International attacking jews....." Ah, another one that wants to pretend that AI's disproportionate focus on Israel is nothing to do with anti-Semitism.

Matt, even your spoonfeeder Mark doesn't go beyond a claim of AI being anti-Israel. You make yourself look like an overzealous apprentice.

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Re: Boring Green Andrew Ferni Anonymous Cluetard Nonesuch I wouldn't..... @Plump & Bleaty

(Dear Plump & Blleaty, kindly refrain from stripping the title of your monicker as this makes the thread hard to follow. I had to add it back again, sorry)

> LOL, still trying with the personal attacks

Defintely not a personal attack, plumpness! Just pointing out your repeated error.

> right-think sources

I thought you were right wing so I fail to see how you present this as criticism.

> Well, I suppose you could say I have done nothing of 'value' seeing as value is itself intrinsic dependent on the beholder's own values.

So even in your own eyes you haven't done anything worthy. Honest, I guess.

> I may have done plenty that most responsible, educated, intelligent and law-abiding citizens

Implying that you also may not have done? Peculiarly honest of you, lambchop

> but then I can see why that would equate to zero for you.

I honestly don't think that of you. Not at all.

> Why do the lefties always think everyone is just dying to shriek 'me, me, me', just because their icons are so egotistical?

I was asking about *you* but you seemed to have missed that (again, D- for plump, must try harder), like pretty well every point people make to you that you don't like. I kind of admire that in ewe.

> Seriously, you need to realise there is more than just a difference in political views here

I don't think you're cut out to understand that someone can hold a different political view to you.

> that are better mannered and don't seek to promote self at every opportunity

This, coming from mr. reticent, plumpo hisself! Wooooh hoooo!

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Re: Andrew Ferni Anonymous Cluetard Nonesuch I wouldn't want to set one foot.....

"...With you? Honestly? No..." Hey, no need to get all weepie, just admit you're out of your depths and leave the discussion to the adults, mmmkay?

".....you're not even slightly interested in the 'debate'...." So why did I ask you to try and post an actual opinion (which you have - AGAIN - failed to do!)? Holy batcrap, I never realised I was so devious! Asking someone to formulate an opinion as a means of ensuring they DON'T say their piece - how could that possibly be construed as anything other than oppression of the most Machiavellian levels? I do apolgise for untinkingly offering you the opportunity to prove you're not just a cardboard cutout mindlessly rebleating spoonfed ideals.

"....Yep, you've got my number. I've been wandering round all day...." It amazes me you manage to get out the door with that level of egocentricity. Or is that just another desperate evasion of the arguments? It wouldn't be your first by a long shot.

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Happy

Re: Boring Cluetard Re: Matt Bryant Manure

"You've talked out of your arse, Matt, and you've been caught doing it...." What, posting facts and backing up my points, whilst you post nothing but blather and avoid the issues raised?

"....Suggesting I'm a Stalinist, revisionist and/or Gulag denier is not a surprising last resort...." It was the first resort when you took the bait. I also note you are studiously avoiding the points raised, especially the one relating to the actual extent of Stalin's horrific abuses. Gee, I wonder why?

"....I have indeed noticed that's just the sort of thing you do when you fuck up and cannot bear to man up....." What as opposed to your 'manning up' where you post no facts, no arguments or counters, and instead avoid the discussion? Your version of 'manning up' would seem rather weak and evasive, TBH, and based mainly on denial. Not eactly a winning strategy. Your grudging admittance of the stupidity of AI's comparisson didn't help you much either, especially not when it was couched in such sulky bitterness.

"....I'll continue to point out incidents of your rabid thoughtless writing where I feel like it...." Do please try and include an actual original argument next time, it will help others not think of you as just a bleating time-waster, shrieking because he cannot stand the idea of dissent yet clearly unable to formulate a counter with actual intelligent thought. Enjoy!

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Re: Boring Green Andrew Ferni Anonymous Cluetard Nonesuch I wouldn't..... @Plump & Bleaty

And another post from Boring Green without a single argument, just more personal attacks. Gosh, it's almost like he CAN'T formulate an argument - what a surprise! Not.

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Re: Boring Cluetard Matt Bryant Manure

> I also note you are studiously avoiding the points raised, especially the one relating to the actual extent of Stalin's horrific abuses. Gee, I wonder why?

You've since figured out as well it's pretty much impossible to ascertain what the number is. Somewhere between 1.6 million and an upper bound that you are apparently still eagerly googling to establish. I fail to see what you desire out of that conversation.

The point is you can't know and yet you were passing one of the many wildly differing guesstimates off as fact, then you phrased it as a high-end estimate and when you found a higher one you've come to the conclusion that your initial claim really was the most reasonable. Pathetic.

> Do please try and include an actual original argument next time

I've come here to point out once again where you've been talking out of your arse and that's what I've done. Andrew's put rather succinctly how you piss over any kind of reasonable debate. Engaging with you meaningfully is not even an option available to us.

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Re: Boring Cluetard Matt Bryant Manure

Wow you guys are a lot more patient that me. I could only take about 5 of Bryant's crap posts before being like time to move on. My eyes glazed over bored with propaganda and slant.

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Re: Boring Green Andrew Ferni Anonymous Cluetard Nonesuch I wouldn't..... @Plump & Bleaty

Hiya plumpness, it is odd that you see this as personal. The lack of response to my pointing out of your errors suggests I'm in the right area, even more so now that you've backed down. Backed down twice in fact.

And twice I have acknowledged your honesty in your response, don't you think that's worthy of an upvote? Maybe it's because you didn't read my response properly. Try again, and address my points, thanx.

I've upvoted your post BTW. I upvote you, you upvote me, everyone wins, right plumpness? That's the power of socialism, lambchop.

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Re: Andrew Ferni Anonymous Cluetard Nonesuch I wouldn't want to set one foot.....

"So why did I ask you to try and post an actual opinion (which you have - AGAIN - failed to do!)? Holy batcrap, I never realised I was so devious! Asking someone to formulate an opinion as a means of ensuring they DON'T say their piece - how could that possibly be construed as anything other than oppression of the most Machiavellian levels? I do apolgise for untinkingly offering you the opportunity to prove you're not just a cardboard cutout mindlessly rebleating spoonfed ideals.It amazes me you manage to get out the door with that level of egocentricity. Or is that just another desperate evasion of the arguments? It wouldn't be your first by a long shot.""

ICD-10 F60.3

That is all.

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Re: AC Re: Boring Cluetard Matt Bryant Manure

".....Somewhere between 1.6 million and an upper bound that you are apparently still eagerly googling to establish....." I think it's about time you realized some of us don't just rely on Google, we actually read these things called books. They're probably a bit before your time but I suggest you check them out, you'll learn a lot. One might even give you a clue to help you actually post something both relevant and intelligent. Until then, TBH, you're just wasting bandwidth.

".....yet you were passing one of the many wildly differing guesstimates off as fact...." Wow, you must be a hairdresser to spend so much time splitting hairs! I posted the 39m figure as it is the one most commonly accepted amongst historians, as I explained, and as you obviously ignored in your sulky desire to post something - anything! - rather than admit your socio-political outlook got you hooked.

"....I've come here to point out once again where you've been talking out of your arse and that's what I've done...." So please do point to any single, original argument you have posted. Oh, you haven't posted any. This is my surprised face, honest. Maybe you and Andrew can see if you can come up with one between you? It doesn't even have to be about MtGox or Karpeles or even the legal wrangles he landed himself in, just try for something small to start with and we'll try and work you up to the level of adult debate, mmmkay?

In the meantime, a more ironic part of the Karpeles request for US bankruptcy protection is that it gives the US financial authorities visibility of the sites records, potentially giving law enforcement agencies the ability to track potentially illegal purchases made with Bitcoins via the site. Given that MtGox is supposed to have handled up to 70% of all Bitcoin transfers I'm sure the FBI and other such agencies are positively drooling at the idea of getting their hands on that info. So, not only has Karpeles lost his customers' coins, he's potentially also blown away their anonymity! Truly a genius.

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Re: Boring Green Andrew Ferni Anonymous Cluetard Nonesuch I wouldn't..... @Plump & Bleaty

"....it is odd that you see this as personal....." Your whole strategy is not to engage in debate you will lose but to drown out dissenting views with personal attacks and waffle. Your strategy is that of denial and is based on the realization that you cannot defend the indefensible, so instead you seek to mitigate the dissent. I'd like to try and be impressed that you can even come up with a strategy but it's hardly new, being a typical response by the sheeple when they are losing. And you're not even good at it.

"....don't you think that's worthy of an upvote?....I upvote you, you upvote me, everyone wins...." But that would be simply dishonest, something you obviously do not have a problem with. If you were to post an original and good argument in any post then I would upvote it even if I disagreed. I even upvote asdf every now and again. But for you, the voting system is not a tool for recognition of the intrinsic value of a post's argument, it is a popularity rating system, a means of re-inforcing group-thought. You and your ilk are so desperate to be popular, to be 'in with the crowd', that you just can't think independently. TBH, I just find that sad.

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Re: Andrew Ferni Anonymous Cluetard Nonesuch I wouldn't want to set one foot.....

"....ICD-10 F60.3 That is all." Root cause analysis leads to the undeniable conclusion that your problems are the result of an ID10T issue. That and being just an unoriginal, cardboard cutout, still avoiding any debate. Especially as it was you that jumped into this thread shrieking about 'unoriginality'. You complained about posters being labeled unimaginative sheeple yet have done nothing except provide proof that you are a member of their flock.

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