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back to article Russian deputy PM: 'We are coming to the Moon FOREVER'

Barely six weeks after rolling troops into the Crimean Peninsula, an official from Vladimir Putin's Russia has announced the country's next expansion target: the Moon. As reported by the Voice of Russia, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin told the government daily Rossiiskaya Gazeta that establishing a permanent Moon …

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Could not have timed it better

The US has not landed a man on the moon in 47 years. This is a serious loss of momentum, will and advantage.

Given the US's current obsession with military might and pure financial greed and the disdain by its general populace for all things science, it will probably never regain those advantages.

They have timed this well.

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Re: Could not have timed it better

This is also at a time when the US probably couldn't afford to join that race. I almost wonder if Russia isn't particularly serious about this but figured it would be a great time to bring it up.

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Re: Could not have timed it better

It is easy and free to talk about, and fills the citizens with nationalist pride. But don't mistake talk for action, they aren't going to go to the Moon any more than the US went back in 2012 like Bush promised in 2004. They won't even land anything there.

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Re: Could not have timed it better

"This is also at a time when the US probably couldn't afford to join that race"

To a degree yes, but the Yanks have far greater ability to afford it than the crooked and backward economy that Russia is blessed with. Putin and his mates have obviously forgotten that last time they tried to out-compete America on weapons and space technology it bankrupted the USSR. With an economy only held afloat by exports of gas, Russia is playing a dangerous game that in the longer term it is likely to lose.

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Re: Could not have timed it better

Of course they can afford it. They just need to cut back on other things, like building the Matrix.

I'd much rather have a good old-fashioned space race, it's of much more benefit to humanity.

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Re: Could not have timed it better

The point of this will be?

Bragging rights?

Won't make a difference if someone is already living on Mars.

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Re: Could not have timed it better

"I'd much rather have a good old-fashioned space race, it's of much more benefit to humanity."

Not when both sides are funding it from the printing presses, which in the longer term is simply a stealth tax on holders of cash and cash-denominated assets. Building a big fuck-off rocket with tax might look cool, but when you've seen your economy hollowed out by the biggest debt fuelled boom 'n' bust in history, you'd think that people would have more sense than even more borrowing to pay for vainglorious technological willy waving.

Any the technical benefits of a space programme are simply too far ahead to make economic sense when you discount them and compare them to alternative uses of the money like low tech stuff that's crying out to be done, such as improving transport links or telecomms and internet access.

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Re: Could not have timed it better

There is logic in your argument, however, you seem to forget that this is Russia. They don't care if their country goes bankcrupt, individuals, the elite, will not. If they do, some prominent places in the EU would come down with them. Europe and especially the UK bending over for the last 2 decades at the site of Russians dangling their gold sacks, has led them to believe, and rightfully so, that they are the ones with power.

London can't even afford economical sanctions against a country the openly invades another in violation of international law let alone, stopping said nation from planning space trips and going through with the plan.

The country may bankrupt in the generic sense of the world, but Russia will be just fine.

They will attempt anything at the cost of their people to make a point. Don't discard the plans as mad mens talk. They may be mad, but it's not necessarily just talk ;)

When dealing with a different mentality to your own, you need to step outside your box of logic and attempt to think like your subject does - irrational as it may be.

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Re: Could not have timed it better

@Ecofeco

And yet today, the U.S. spends less of its GDP on defense than it did during the Apollo program era, and produces more college grads and scientists now than then. And it's not like the EU or anyone else in the developed world has stepped into the gap, if flying to the moon is such a bestower of "momentum, will and advantage".

Let's not dress up arguments about why nobody has gone to the moon in 40 years (NOT 47!) with fictions based on inaccurate data.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Could not have timed it better

> The point of this will be?

It's a fucking cool thing to do. That's the point of it.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Could not have timed it better

> London can't even afford economical sanctions against a country the openly invades another in violation of international law let alone

I had no idea Parliament was looking to impose sanctions on the US.

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Re: Could not have timed it better

"you seem to forget that this is Russia"

No, I don't. I agree with most of your comments, but I wasn't saying they could not or would not do this - just that it would be economic madness that they can ill afford. That's quite common amongst dictators, but Putin's got some way to go before he challenges North Korea for the 2014 title of Crackpot Dictator of the Year.

One point of clarification, why would London wish to stop anybody going into space? Nobody in the UK cares if Putin wants to build a huge phallus and point it at the moon, and historically we are used to threatening postures from short arse emperors and dictators.

The reality of the current spat over Ukraine has drawn out two fundamental issues that the world needs to learn, and neither are really about Ukraine or Crimea:

1) Russia is not a reliable trade partner, and with the threat of freezing Germany to death next winter, the key country of the EU isn't going to say boo to the goose stepper of Moscow. Important lessons: Russian exports cannot be relied on, and closing down your coal fired power plant to save the world has far more costs than just higher energy bills.

2) Giving up nuclear weapons means surrendering to those who do have them, even if other nuclear powers have guaranteed your sovereignty. This lesson was already believed in Pyongyang, Teheran and Islamabad, but Putin has single-handedly spelled it out to the whole world. This could have some rather difficult long term consequences including for Russia.

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Re: Could not have timed it better

@Mag07:

You're correct, 'madmen' (aka - anyone with a mindset significantly different from your own) are always a significant challenge. It's why ideological 'wars on ideas' are almost universally failures. No one very far removed from the 'crazy' can ever truly understand what the commotion is all about and trying to 'think crazy' is just fucking stupid. The only way to beat crazy is with more crazy, and that's where everything falls apart and why the actions of one man quite a while ago go on to drive the actions of folks like Godwin, who will be referenced by proxy in the following paragraph.

Take Winston Churchhill for example, an incredibly dangerous, highly unbalanced person of the sort who polite society usually prefers to just not talk about. It's been established for ages you just keep people like that blackout drunk all the time and they sort themselves out, usually in a messy way, but it solves the problem. But Neville Chamberlain isn't much use against a Stalin or Hitler. Dogmatic ideology can only be defeated by organized chaos and the force field created by simply giving zero fucks.

It's a big problem with the expansion of any polarized 'party line' social management platform. If you go so far to any one side that people would honestly rather be dead than live 'your way' then you've got a really bad problem. When things are that bad the best solution is always the person otherwise most unfit for the job. Fuel him up and he 'wex wode wroth' on the madman who derives 100% of his power from giving all the fucks. You can't march into successful conquest on the shoulders of an idea unless you and your followers really, really buy into the underlying concepts embodied in whatever banner you're waving.

There's a strong argument that, summarized, says that society can move forward only through imbalance, confusion and dispute. Without those elements society tends to devolve and focus on rather trivial issues of class and semantics, paying tribute to 'advancement' but in reality resembling the earliest pioneers of their society more and more with each passing generation. Decadence is often the word used, but it's more than that. It's where core concepts that a society has built itself on, prided itself on, are abandoned, marginalized and even demonized as societies forget what's really important. They become scared of every little thing because they've forgotten what true fear is like. They think they know, but they don't. Fear of an incredibly unlikely random event (terrorism) is nothing like the society wide existensial dread that takes hold of entire nations when the survival of the people, and the nation itself, is truly thretened.

I just realized that sounds kind of like something a Batman villain would say, but that wasn't my point. My point was that crazy breeds crazy and a Russian 'madman' who wants to take over the moon is but half of the equation and the universe will balance that madman with another. That person is out there, right now, and if Putin decides to actually try and claim the moon that person will be catapulted to a position where our grand kids will read about, but never understand, the ensuing insanity. It'll be great fun to watch!

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@LedSwinger "Giving up nuclear weapons..."

Do you really believe the outcome would have been different if Ukraine had kept some of its nuclear weapons? The reason they rolled over for Russia in Crimea (and may yet in the eastern part of Ukraine) is not because they believed Russia would nuke them. Putin still would have come in if they had nukes, because he knows no one would start a nuclear war over it.

This was/is never going to be anything but a conventional war, if that, and Russia has a larger and more modern military than Ukraine. More importantly, most of the people in Crimea, and in the area that may yet be annexed to provide a land path to Crimea, are ethnic Russian (ignoring the messy historical reasons why that is the case) That would make it very difficult for a Ukrainian army to fight them, both because some of their number would be unwilling to fire upon Russians, and a majority of the local population would aid a Russian army that was being fired upon by a Ukrainian army.

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Re: Could not have timed it better

Marketing Hack, the last men on the moon landed in 1972. Apollo 17. Eugene Cernan being the last man.

You're correct. It was not 47 years. Typo on my part. It was 42 years ago.

And while the US "spends less of its GDP on defense than it did during the Apollo program era, and produces more college grads and scientists now than then," it still produces less scientists and engineers as a percentage of its population and outspends on defense the next top 10 countries combined.

My point being is that the US lost the momentum and most likely the long term gain.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Could not have timed it better

"The US has not landed a man on the moon in 47 years."

O RLY!

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Re: @DougS

"This was/is never going to be anything but a conventional war,..."

Sorry mate, you're still in short trousers obviously. My first job a long time ago was maintaining and sharpening step one of the nuclear detente mechanism. Nobody ever starts out intending for things to go shit shaped. In the 1930's, heavy bombers were seen in much the same light as WMD today. Most people believed they'd never be used, they were a deterrent, and the thought of their use was simply horrific. FFWD to mid-1945, and we'd had Guernica, the London blitz, Coventry, Hamburg, Dresden, and ultimately Hiroshima.

Putin is banking on getting away with it. So did Hitler (note 1). If Putin he gets away with Crimea (like Hitler did in the Sudetenland), then he might consider Eastern Ukraine (even as I type), just as Adolf moved into Poland. Then what about disputes with former USSR NATO members. like, well, Poland?

Note 1: For historic purposes I claim a derogation against Godwin.

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Re: Could not have timed it better

Back in the good ole days of Soviet Socialist Imperialism they claimed they had established bases on the moon, but it was on the dark side so the Evil Capitalist West could not see it. Perhaps Putin could use those?

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Re: @DougS

OIL OIL OIL

http://ukrainian-energy.com/en/oil_gas_map

What a coincidence... Now what areas is Russia interested in? Where are its troops massing

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26968312

I've been trying to find the percentage of people required in a country to run a successful revolution. I thought it was a fraction of the ethnic russians.

Protecting ethnic russians is happy coincidence

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Re: @DougS

Nuclear arms were never a deterrent to national expansionist policies. They were are deterrent to ideological expansion, but not to making a country bigger, or smaller. There are a bunch of policy books that deal specifically with the horribly misguided expansion of nuclear arms in Europe and later to the Indian subcontinent.

Basically, everybody wanted to show they were as robust as the US and the USSR, but never stopped to ask what the goals were. They just knew they needed some nukes too. France, and the UK in particular, were so off the walls desperate to look like lunatics too that Macmillan, Churchhill, and Atlee all said at various times that the dumbest thing the UK had ever done was to keep screwing around with nuclear weapons when the USSR could disappear the entirety of Western Europe in less than an hour and the US was likely to do so accidently in their rush to shoot first.

The reason nuclear weapons were never a deterrent to national expansion is that it's fucking stupid to vaporize and irradiate resources that are the goal of expansion in the first place; it's completely pointless. All the oil in the world isn't worth shit if it kills everyone. Incidentally, that's what scares the shit out of everybody regarding nuclear weapons in the Western Orient (everybody who doesn't live there anyway). It's widely assumed that Israel won't destroy population centers with nuclear weapons, nobody will back that. But vaporizing the oil fields of their enemies would be far more damaging to those countries and the global economy. The more spooky policy types also see the possibility of an enraged 'Islamic madman' destroying their own oil fields if large scale invasion occurred before international nuclear weapons delivery capabilities had been established in that country.

Nuclear weapons should never have expanded outside the US and we should have sunk them all with all the ships and other shit we scuttled after the end of the war. They were never considered a viable response to anything other than a nuclear assault and everybody on the planet who had them was more scared of US (Ha!) than they were of the USSR; even inside the US! Dr. Strangelove was satire with a healthy dose of actual internal concerns at the highest levels of government.

It was fucking stupid, all of it. The 'nuclear diplomacy' a few deluded knobs like to showcase as reasons for keeping the weapons are Bush MkII cowboy bullshit that never actually accomplished anything. The people with power in those situations were the equivalent of patient wives who got the problems all sorted out but never had the heart to tell their 'big strong man' he looked like a horses ass because he'd be impotent and suicidal if his 'weapon of mass destruction' didn't work anymore.

Bunch of dumbassery then and even more so now. You don't shoot nuclear weapons at people who have 41,000 more nuclear weapons than you. Nor do launch nuclear weapons at the land and resources (treasure) you want nor the people who you want to dig it out of the ground for you. It would be like if England had killed everybody in Wales and Ireland then flooded all the coal mines.

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Re: Could not have timed it better

"the Yanks have far greater ability to afford it than the crooked and backward economy that Russia is blessed with"

Afford, but not as we know it Jim.

Would be fascinated to learn how a debt of $17 trillion dollars, growing at $2.6 billion dollars a day translates to an ability to afford anything.

Such a debt could be a sign of a cooked and backward economy in denial, perhaps?

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Re: @DougS

"Putin is banking on getting away with it."

He probably is, just like a number of recent US (and UK) leaders of recent times.

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Re: Could not have timed it better

I am not so confident as you are. Vlad the Putin now wants to capitalize on his growing popularity and how better to do it than with a trip back to the moon--especially if it shows up the nasty greedy capitalistic bastards.

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Re: Could not have timed it better

I'm wondering if Russia has something else in mind.

As written about in "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress" by Robert A Heinlein, the Moon would make an excellent platform for throwing rocks at whoever you wanted to on Earth.

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Re: Could not have timed it better

It's a real pity some asshole not only put the moon close enough that you can make a very detailed study of its geography with the naked eye, they made it reflective and provided what is, quite possibly, the best side lighting in the solar system. A professional photographer, or rocket scientist, couldn't have designed a more effective system to highlight things you want to knock off the surface using nothing more advanced than 1960's technology :)

Less facetiously, military attacks from the moon were all the rage when Jules Verne was still doing his pioneering work in scientific documentary literature positioned as entertainment and it was still a very real consideration as late as 1981 when the US took the option off the table forever.

Everybody agreed that it was far cheaper to prevent construction and use of a lunar military installation by just bombing the launch facilities of the country trying to build the facility. For all their resilience and strength, launch facilities are extremely fragile when being bombed and man portable weapons can disable launch sites for years. Drone portable weapons even better and you don't even have to get up to do that.

Colonizing the moon is possible, if somewhat pointless, but not a functional military facility with assault capabilities. Satellites with tungsten telephone poles see far more difficult to stop and far, far cheaper.

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Alert

Re: Could not have timed it better

Space Race II -- this time, it's personal!

[insert photo of shirtless Putin here]

//it's all fun & games, 'till the SPB gets involved!

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Re: Could not have timed it better

"US went back in 2012 like Bush promised in 2004"

If Obama hadn't shut down the program... not like Bush had any control over that.

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Re: Could not have timed it better

"and if Putin decides to actually try and claim the moon"

For what? So he can put a tax on tidal power and maintain his edge as energy supplier?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Could not have timed it better

> outspends on defense the next top 10 countries combined.

And still can't fight a war without Britain coming over to actually do the job.

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Re: Could not have timed it better

> I had no idea Parliament was looking to impose sanctions on the US.

It IS a bit late, now that Hawai'i's a state instead of just a territory ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Hawaii

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Re: Could not have timed it better

What are you talking about? Other than the Falklands helicopter extravaganza, that also signaled the forever end of British naval power, Britain has an even worse track record than the US as far as military action. So I'm curious, what the fuck are you talking about?

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Re: Could not have timed it better

Would be fascinated to learn how a debt of $17 trillion dollars, growing at $2.6 billion dollars a day translates to an ability to afford anything.

If you already know you are going bankrupt, the rational strategy is to maximise the debt because:

1) The stuff you buy now, on credit, will not be so readily available to the competition.

2) The competition are the people who are lending you the money, even while they watch you fritter it away, sometimes use it against them and runs a crooked shop. Fools & Their Money ....

3) Therefore, you will always be able to negotiate a settlement.

4) It is not really your problem that you eventually cannot pay a bunch of foreigners - it is the foreigners problems for lending to you in the first place.

5) Therefore, you don't need to care about a settlement; "Piss Off" will do nicely.

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Mushroom

About Time

Hell yes! This is the kind of thing everybody can wrap their heads around. No fucking tribes or genealogical debates or metaphysical confusion and Semitic semantics screwing everything up. This is just some good old fashioned godless fucking Commie versus pious Uncle Sam race to the god damn moon shit right here.

Secret spy satellite launched from Cape Canaveral? Nope. Fuck you Putin, we had people inside and we've already launched a Bigelow inflatable moon base that will be touching down right about the time you wake up to polish your tiny little balding head.

This is just fantastic! I bought one of those decommissioned missile silos a few years ago, and while it was fun for a bit, it's kind of depressing and they took the missile out anyway. I should have sued. At any rate, I've been looking for something to do with it and nod I've got a plan! I'm going to offer up really, really expensive 'Cold War II' guaranteed survival accommodations along with escorted pickup and delivery of whoever. Like in that shitty movie with the arks and poor sense of scale. Then, I'll wait for Putin to say something really inflammatory, you know he's going to fuck with John McCain, then signal my flock to come to the bunker. Once they're inside I'll just go back home, knowing that the Russians will never attack now. As I've eliminated the top 200 most horrible people, and their families, I'll be crowned Supreme Chancellor of Freedom and Lord of the Exchequer (which is how I'll rename Antarctica).

You laugh, but fuck you, it's no crazier than anything than was going on during Cold War I. How do you think I got the ICBM silo in the first place? They just don't build those things in places like Northern Virginia for mundane things like terrorists you know. This is so fucking fantastic! I wish my dad and granddad could be here for this.

Granddad was always confused, but dad, he just never understood Islamic terrorists. Why kill yourself if you aren't actually gaining ground. What god wants that? Seems wasteful. But an ex-KGB spymaster who hunts jungle cats bare chested, with a crossbow, and wants to conquer the Moon? Fuck yeah! He could have really wrapped his head around that.

Can we get a sickle and hammer icon?

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Re: About Time

Putin - Komrade, report!

Party apparatchik - Da Komrade President! Crimea has been subdued, I mean liberated, a suitable volcano with underground complex has been located, and plans for the secret space station on ze other side of ze moon are underway. Ze Komrade Deputy Prime Minister's announcement today will provide enough confusion so zey will not suspect a thing.

Putin - And what of our old imperialist enemies, ze Americans?

Party apparatchik - We have stolen ze last of zer secret Space Shuttle fleet, so the ze Americans no longer have manned space capability. And besides, zey hate ze continental Europeans with zer smelly cheese, pongy sausages and real coffee.

Putin - And will ze British be a problem?

Party apparatchik - Nyet Komrade President, our secret plan to buy ze whole of London and its financial infrastructure is progressing on schedule (ve are well ahead of ze Chinese), so zey are powerless to resist us. And besides, zey hate ze continental Europeans with zer smelly cheese, pongy sausages and over-rated wine.

Putin - And what of ze ozer Europeans?

Party apparatchik - We supply zer gas, so zey are powerless to resist as well! And besides, zey all hate ze Germans, with zer pongy sausages, sickeningly sweet wine and EU debt repayment policies.

<Smug white cat leaps into Putin's lap, curls up, and starts purring as he strokes it.>

Putin - Those crazy Americans, zey think i don't understand them, but I have seen Dr. Strangelove!

Party apparatchik - Vill zer be anything else, Komrade President?

Putin - Da, fetch me my cowboy hat.

Party apparatchik - At once, Komrade President!

Putin - Bwahahahaaa! I love it ven a plan comes together! Россия, Fuck Yeah!

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Black Helicopters

Re: About Time

Going to the Moon? Forever?

Good.

Then we'll be rid of them...

Rootin' tootin' Putin... (or was that RAS Putin?)....

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Re: About Time

"they took the missile out anyway"

Haha!

Nomination for post of the week right here.

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Re: About Time @TitterYeNot

> Vill zer be anything else

ur rusky smells a bit german, TBH

On a more serious note, russia will bankrupt itself trying. Sounds more like putin's in the final stages of whipping up the dumb masses for another reason, perhaps rather more about this planet, maybe for another like trip across someone elses border or to consolidate their existing work in ukraine.

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Re: About Time @TitterYeNot

Russia might very well bankrupt Ivan 500ml (vodka doesn't come in six packs), but the ruling class won't be effected. They're used to that anyway, plus it's necessary for that to happen if Russia is going to really join the 21st century. Bleeding your citizens dry on projects with little or no actual value is the mark of any modern, leadership class, nation. Hey! Maybe we can do some sort of exchange program! Russia teaches 'The West' how to manage terrorism cheaply and effectively, and we'll show Russia how to avoid its businesses having to pay taxes in foreign countries. It's a win win!

More seriously, 'crazed' investment is how industries and markets are created. Words like 'magnate', 'mogul' and 'robber baron' weren't created as neat new job titles for people doing the same thing as everybody else. Aluminum was a piece of shit, insanely expensive, exotic material until somebody spent several fortunes figuring out how to make it cheap and affordable.

Your Oakley sunglasses and Ping golf clubs wouldn't be made of titanium if not for the investment and years of research I put into reducing production casting costs for the material and some of its alloys so much that I screwed up warehousing markets and purchasing forecasts for every aerospace company on Earth. I saw an opportunity, I met its challenges and now everybody gets to pay extra for using a material that's probably less appropriate for strength and durability in most consumer applications than copper. But hey! Marketing excites emotions and trumps otherwise expressed customer intelligence every single time. It's great too, because all I needed were cheaper parts for accelerator target cooling systems and you get to wear the result on your face and put gas in my cars. Thanks :)

My point, is that the very same greed and desire that's responsible for everything else guarantees that if you build something people can use to make money with they'll do it. It's not an issue of chances or probabilities or even need or common sense, it's as certain as the sunrise or the tides.

If Putin actually 'conquered' the moon then one of only two possibilities will be realized:

- The US and Europe will try to muscle in on the action and establish their own, competing, facilities.

Or

- The US and Europe will create really fucked up global markets that aggressively retard the prices of whatever Russia exports from their lunacy (Ha!).

Either way, something will happen if Putin actually makes good on his promises and the effects will be global. No country, absolutely none, will sit by passively and watch any other country claim dominion over the moon. If you doubt this, simply look up at Antarctica. The Exchequer (the land that will be formerly known as Antarctica in the future) is chock fucking full of treasure greater than all the natural resources Man has used in the history of ever, combined. Stunning amounts of wealth that would enable any dominating nation to control the entirety of Humanity for millennia, but nobody is exploiting Mother Nature's vault, why not?

It's because everybody agrees that nothing but suffering beyond all imagining would result if any country tried to control that place. Check this shit out, even the fucking Nazi's thought the continent was too valuable for any single nation to control. They wanted a share, and if you've not actually been living on the moon since the late 1930's (and failing miserably in taking advantage of the situation :) you're well aware that sharing wasn't exactly high on their list of desirable virtues.

Nations aren't managed successfully by focusing on finances. Again, if you doubt, look at the list of things that the English crown cited as most desirable from its colonies in the New World. You'll find precious metals and such way down the list, pushed down there by the need for trees and ships stores. Can't rule the seas if your Ships of the Line have no masts, leak like Ukrainian whores and have sheets that rot before you make a return passage. But 'sound economic thinking' had seen 'somebody' decide to cut down all their trees previously. Cost them their Kingdom and provided us with a captive island nation to overcharge for consumer electronics and coffee.

You've got to get out in front, not plan from behind or you end up like them and it's entirely possible that other countries will be bankrupted by trying to keep Russia from being on the moon. In actuality, I would say that's far more likely.

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The race is on!

Things are not what they were in the 1960s. A concerted effort to occupy real-estate on the moon could definitely be a go.

Who owns it? Is it like the Ocean or is it fair game for the first one to plant a flag?

I think Canada should get in on this. Build a rail-gun the length of the prairies and just keep sending up cargo and robots to terraform the joint with maple trees. Think of the solar farms you could put up there. Nine billion acres at a thousand bucks an acre could start to add up to real money.

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Joke

April 1st?

Ahh, I see.... April 1st1st is twice as nutty as April 1st, by the three comments above.

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Gold badge

Re: The race is on!

The problem with the interplanetary hyperloop you suggest is that if we want to launch people along that thing it needs to be a lot longer then the prairies. Length wise, from northwest Alberta to southwest Manitoba might work, but A) you can't build on muskeg and B) the yanks would have some nasty words with us lobbing ballistics over their nation at hypersonic speeds.

That means something long and south. Crow's Nest Pass in southern Alberta to Thunder Bay Ontario, or even the Quebec border. This puts it far too close to the covetous hands of the yanks, which poses all sorts of it's own problems.

Canada absolutely has the technology, the manpower and the money to build such a device, but we never would. The biggest reason being that it would violate all treaties regarding the treatment of international territory and severely weaken our claims to sovereignty in the north. There's a metric "holy shit" worth of unexploited - hell, unexplored - resources up there, and we're just not ready to pass them up in exchange for some airless rock that has fuck all to offer except nickle, silicon and iron.

If you poor buggers really need He3 that much, go hard. We've got enough Uranium to last us the next 10,000 years and when that's up, we'll just build some Lagrangian satellites with massive bussard ramscoops on them rather than trying to "mine" He3 from regolith.

I'm all for space exploration, but #occupyluna is the single stupidest idea I have heard of in my entire life. If you really want to be trapped in a gravity well, choose Ceres. Everything you need is there, including stupendous amounts of water. The gravity well is enough that plants will point their roots downwards when they grow, but easy enough to make getting off the damned thing and exploring cheap and easy.

Fuck Luna. If y'all want it, you can have it. We're Canadian, we need plenty of fresh water and spectacular amounts of valuable resources to make us happy. It's what we know how to work with.

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Re: The race is on!

And why exactly should the lunar surface be worth $1000 an acre? Or even a penny per acre? You can't grow anything there, it costs a fortune to support people there and there's nothing for them to do that they can't do better in zero-G orbit.

The only reason you'd ever go to the Moon would be to collect He3, but until we can do something useful with that, it is pretty pointless, and whether it would ever be economical to ship it out of the lunar gravity well is unknown.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The race is on!

> And why exactly should the lunar surface be worth $1000 an acre? Or even a penny per acre? You can't grow anything there, it costs a fortune to support people there and there's nothing for them to do that they can't do better in zero-G orbit.

Bit like Kensington?

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Bronze badge

Re: The race is on!

"And why exactly should the lunar surface be worth $1000 an acre?"

If you could get any kind of practical mining and construction happening on the moon, it'd make a decent launch-pad to reach the rest of the universe. No air means no corrosion or any of the contaminants that come with it. And the moon has something like one-sixth of Earth's gravity, so your rocket would need a lot less fuel than one launched from Earth.

Sure. A moon base capable of mining and producing stuff is a looong way off but I imagine lunar real estate prices will only go up if you're patient enough to invest for your grandchildrens' grandchildren.

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Silver badge
Joke

Bad idea.

First, colonisation of the moon. Then it'll seem like a good idea to dump radioactive waste there. Then there will be a "magnetic disturbance", then it'll blow up.

No wait, hasn't that already happened, or are they just a bit behind schedule?

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Silver badge

Quantum Leaping Ahead is AI Leading Novel Great Game Move to Better

to be Just Able and Enabled to Compete

Reading between the lines and decrypting the hiding in plain text sight code, having a command and control lunatic base gives one a quite sublime and supreme power over practically everything on Earth.

Nice one, Vlad/Dmitry, and methinks that puts Russian Intelligence Services and SMARTR Information Servers significantly further ahead of anything the Wild Wacky West and International Banking Brokerage be presently able to offer and deliver.

:-) That is not to say though, that they cannot buy their way into leading programs with a proxy sharing of the intelligence they be missing and not privy to. After all, what is money for, if not to buy you whatever one needs to virtually command and remotely control everything, practically anonymously.

Capiche, NSA/GCHQ/Bank of England/US Federal Reserve, who do appear to have dropped the nuclear football just as they thought they were crossing the try line for a leading score?

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Bronze badge
Trollface

No need to ask permission

or beg forgiveness, after annexing the moon. First take Crimea, then eastern Ukraine; then shoot for the moon. TBA: moon shuttle flights to claim the asteroids. Space fleet to follow.

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Gold badge

Re: No need to ask permission

If they can do it, let 'em. Hell, cheer 'em on. Someone should escape this pathetic mudball. If we're not interested, more power to the Russians, the Chinese and anyone else who cares to try.

Quod ad astra. The purpose of life is life itself, and for sentience, to take that life to the stars.

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