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back to article Nokia: ALL our Windows Phone 8 Lumias will get a cool 8.1 boost

Microsoft's proposed acquisition of Nokia's handset business still has yet to pass regulatory scrutiny in Asia, but that didn't stop former Nokia CEO Stephen Elop from making an appearance at Redmond's annual Build conference on Wednesday to tout the two companies' strong ties and to debut three new phones. "In just hopefully a …

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"wildly successful Lumia 520"?

Anyone got numbers for that? As far as I know, Microsoft and Nokia do not release figures for individual phones, but only an aggregate number. According to http://blog.adduplex.com/2013/08/adduplex-windows-phone-statistics.html the 520 has almost 30% of "the market". The market in question is the Windows Phone 8 market. The same site says the 520 has 18% of the "Windows Phone market", which is a figure we can use. 2013 data can be found here:

http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2014/02/final-2013-smartphone-market-share-numbers-full-year-and-quarterly-q4-data-by-top-10-brands-plus-os-.html

Windows Phone has 3% of the smart phone market, so the market share for the 520 is 0.54%. Microsoft accounting gives Linux 1.5% of "the market" (They might mean the pre-installed OS on desktop and laptop computers but never actually say). With tripple the market share, Linux on the desktop must be spectacularly successful.

If I was feeling particularly cruel, I would ask how profitable the Lumia 520 was.

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Fantastic new for all 23 owners of the handsets.

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Windows

yes, its nice to know

that some of us, albeit 23, have some taste and class and choose not to be sheeple...

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FAIL

Re: yes, its nice to know

Windows and Sheeple tend to go together - take a look at the desktop. Hope you enjoy windows 8

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FAIL

"Fantastic new for all 23 owners of the handsets."

Wow, the same old wisecrack being wheeled out again, and not quickly enough to make first post...

... and this coming from the same group who accuse Microsoft of lack of innovation!

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Indeed, and they say that 2+2=4. After all these millennia they haven't had the innovation to change something that simple.

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Re: yes, its nice to know

I think you will find that most sheeple are crApple and fandroid users. As for windows 8, where the fuck does that come into it. Windows 8 is a cock up. Windows phone is a distinct, smooth, UI. Don't confuse the two. That's what the sheeple do... Their disdain for Ms blinkers them to anything ms do. Good or bad.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "wildly successful Lumia 520"?

I see Windows Phone just took the Guinness World Record for the fastest Phone / Keyboard from Android / Swipe by a whole 8 seconds! (New record is 17 seconds)

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JDX
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quad-core and 512Mb RAM as standard now?

That is good news. I keep thinking about upgrading my 610 (WP7.8) to a 620 but it seems I'd be better waiting a little longer.for one of these, or for the prices on the 720 to drop as a result.

Note these are still "Nokia Lumia" - do we have an official announcement what the brand will be once the sale goes through? MS Lumia? Windows Lumia? WindowsPhone?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: quad-core and 512Mb RAM as standard now?

512Mb? Megabits?

64MiB RAM isn't exactly impressive for a modern phone. Ye Olde iPaqs, maybe.

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JDX
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Re: quad-core and 512Mb RAM as standard now?

That was definitely worth writing in response to a 1-char typo.

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Re: quad-core and 512Mb RAM as standard now?

> I keep thinking about upgrading my 610 (WP7.8) to a 620 but it seems I'd be

> better waiting a little longer.for one of these,

I thought that but it seems the 630 isn't the sucessor to the 620. The 620 was a nice compact 3.5" phone. These are 4.5" monsters. I do hope Nokia will release at least one compact phone in this next generation. There aren't many manufacturers left producing anything under 4".

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$599

Yep, good luck with that

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Re: $599

To be fair, the price is comparable with similar hardware running other OS.

It's nice hardware. Would it sell better running Android? That is the $ 10 billion question.

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JDX
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Re: $599

Well considering HTC are struggling to sell great devices running Android, maybe offering a different OS isn't such a bad move now Samsung is becoming such a behemoth. For top-end phones you'd then have one manufacturer for each OS...

Apple - iOS

Samsung - Android

Nokia/MS - WinPhone

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Re: $599

the price you can charge at the top of the market is not a measure of the price you can charge when you are trying desperately to increase market share.

Unless you have an offering which has a clear advantage over your competition you have to sacrifice margin to get a foothold.

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JDX
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Re: $599

Again, HTC. I don't see them selling their top-notch phone for a bargain.

Also, setting a high price gives the impression of a premium product. If MS sold all their phones much cheaper than their rivals, the risk is Joe Public thinks they're cheap because they're budget products.

You're screwed whatever you do :)

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Re: $599

Works for Apple.

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Re: $599

To be honest I think that HTC's stance on SD cards has been their biggest hindrance. It has always seemed to me a big omission in their One series. Yes, I know lots of builtin is better but it's still a real tickbox. We'll see how they fare now they've embraced it.

Android users are almost by definition a fickle bunch where being able to switch easily to a different handset but keep the apps, etc. is important and a real hurdle for another OS. Nokia's X strategy is a not very convincing attempt to address this because it's focussed on the low end.

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Stop

Re: $599

Well, considering that Nokia/Microsoft are struggling to sell high-end devices running Windows Phone (the cheapish 520 beating them), maybe offering a different OS isn't such a bad move since the release of the X models got a lot of press attention.

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Stop

Re: $599

Again, Nokia/Microsoft, I don't see them selling their top-notch phone for a bargain.

Also, setting a high price gives the impression of a premium product, but that doesn’t help much . If MS sold all their phones much cheaper than their rivals, the risk that Joe Public thinks they're cheap because they're budget products is zero, they simply don't care about expensive Lumias.

But Joe Public ends buying Lumias because they have the label "NOKIA", not because it has Windows Phone inside, not because the OS is made by Microsoft or because they have premium optics.

You're screwed whatever you do :)

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Re: $599

What does any other phone with a 20MP OIS camera cost? Are there any? Maybe 20MP, maybe OIS, both?

Leaving aside Nokia build quality, design etc. The actual spec of the phone is at the high end, WP is very slick with a dual-core 1.5 Ghz, 1GB RAM spec so I assume this will be just as fast or probably faster, WP8.1 may need more performance but the expected differences don't suggest it, excepting HD screen support, which would definitely need it (and a bigger battery, hence the larger phone I suspect).

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JDX
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Re: $599

Since MS are already selling much cheaper Lumias, with reasonable success, how would cutting the price on top-end ones work... they'd collide with their budget-end models!?

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Re: $599

I wouldn't want a Windows phone if it was free.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: $599

"Would it sell better running Android?"

Microsoft make money from both, so they don't need to care too much...

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bep

Re: $599

Indeed, and where you are now in the Android space is not much of an indicator of where you will be in 12 months time. Witness how the Moto G seems to have revitalised Motorola's fortunes after they seemed to be heading nowhere. If you bring out the right handset at the right price then Android users will take their apps and run. HTC might therefore be going OK - a quality flagship phone can give a halo effect for your cheaper offerings, even if no one actually buys the expensive model.

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Anonymous Coward

"Wildly successful Lumia 520"

Like Duffy's wildly successful second album.

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My Windows 7.5 phone is still up the creek.

Guess I'll continue to use my Moto G instead. Which is a great phone.

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Now please add a WACOM stylus

And I can finally ditch the "support ends after 12 month, earlier if we bring out a new one before that" Note2. My dislike of Touch is the only thing chaining me to Fragmentdroid phones

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Paris Hilton

£99

Ms, phoneco and telco should do a £99 shocker if they want to capture more market share that is

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Typical.

I'm going to upgrade to a 1020 just before they launch a new version of the 1020, aren't I?

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Re: Typical.

Got mine for just over 300 quid, supposedly used but, in fact, having factory stickers and original factory software (requiring two update cycles to get to Black).

Hard to leave a 920 but I had a willing recipient and was gagging for the camera, also nice to get the AMOLED screen.

Besides, 41MP beats 20MP even if the pixels are larger, the sensor probably won't be.

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41MP?

My TV is 2MP and my printer is 6MP (without using a magnifying glass). There are 8MP televisions. What is the difference between 20MP and 41MP?

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Re: 41MP?

Loss-less zoom for image cropping?

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Re: 41MP?

The 1020 uses a 41MP sensor then some rather clever algorithms to choose the "best" pixels to put into the final image. So it uses a 41MP sensor not to create a 41MP image but to improve the quality of an I forget-how-much smaller image. Best way to judge whether that's effective or a silly gimmick is to look up some users' photos online. I've seen some truly beautiful ones that you simply wouldn't believe were done with a phone.

Also, yes, lossless zooming.

My wife has the 925, which has the optical image stabilisation, so I've seen that in action. It is astounding: turns a wobbly hand into a tripod.

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As predicted....

I did indeed just get a 1020, and Jesus Christ, the camera is amazing beyond words.

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Hilariously funny though the comments may be (well, to be honest I'm being rather charitable there), the concept that 'only five people' use Windows Phone is sort of out of date information, and it's sad to see people wheeling out that line.

Here in the UK, the market share of Windows Phone is actually just above 10% ... and growing. Given that about 75% of people in the UK have a smartphone, we can probably make a good calculation that the number of Windows Phone users in the UK is between 4.5million and 5million people.

That number may be smaller than those using iPhones or Android handsets, but it's still a pretty healthy number. More people use Windows Phone than many seem to realise.

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I doubt it has anything to do with the OS, as most consumers hardly know what an OS is. More likely good deals on contract phones and/or well demoed units show the good points.

Its nice to see MS struggle to dominate a market, but also it is good to have more than a two-horse race.

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between 4.5million and 5million people

Oo, sorry, no. Market share is how many phones they're selling, not how many phones are in existence, so your figures are wrong. If we assume that most people get a new phone at the end of their contract, there should be about a two-year lag and a bit of a drop between market share and total phone population share.

That being said, all the manufacturers really care about is market share; they don't give a damn whether someone's still got a five-year-old phone, so over 10% is still a good figure from MS's point of view.

Your broader point is right, though: there are a lot more WP users than the detractors realise. Which is hardly surprising if you've used it: it's superb.

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> Here in the UK, the market share of Windows Phone is actually just above 10% ... and growing. Given that about 75% of people in the UK have a smartphone, we can probably make a good calculation that the number of Windows Phone users in the UK is between 4.5million and 5million people.

One can see you oozing enthusiasm for the product, almost in a cultist way. Unfortunately you have made several gross errors.

> the market share ... just above 10%

Market share refers to sales over the counter. It will take a couple of years to transform that into a similar figure for ownership.

> Given that about 75% of people in the UK have a smartphone

Completely wrong.

"""Presently around 53% of the UK mobile-using population of 60m has a smartphone,"""

Note that the 60million is the total population. Other estimates are that around 50% of adults have a smartphone. So the total smartphone ownership is likely to be around 20million.

It is unlikely that there are as many as 1million WP phones in the UK.

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Here's an article on the smartphone usage in the UK from last year, putting it at around 72% http://mobilemarketingmagazine.com/7-10-people-uk-now-own-smartphone/

We can of course trade figures all day, but if we're going with marketshare as being 'sales' of SmartPhones then that translates over time to the Windows Phone install base getting: a) steadily larger, and b) definitively in the 'millions' class.

I'd certainly suggest that making a statement like "It is unlikely that there are as many as 1million WP phones in the UK." with no clear evidence to support it, would fall into the category of something you /want'/ to be true as opposed to something you /know/ to be true.

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> putting it at around 72%

It seems that you didn't read the whole article:

"""the 1,000 people surveryed [sic]"""

"""The survey was carried out in May by TNS, on behalf of Deloitte, among people in the UK between the ages of 16 and 64."""

It may be that the 1000 were in large urban areas. As it was only taken on a restricted age range then it is incompetent to extrapolate to being a figure to use over the whole population.

> but if we're going with marketshare as being 'sales' of SmartPhones

You may find this instructive on the issue.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jan/09/market-share-smartphones-iphone-android-windows

> I'd certainly suggest that making a statement like "It is unlikely that there are as many as 1million WP phones in the UK." with no clear evidence to support it, would fall into the category of something you /want'/ to be true as opposed to something you /know/ to be true.

While your fanciful speculative "good calculation" claim that there were 4.5 - 5 million was based on: complete ignorance of what the figures represented.

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Looking forward to the update providing...

..it includes the context-aware volume function. Assuming it does come as part of 8.1.

I can't say many of the other updates will change my life... unless others know more?

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Purely anecdotal, but my local phone shops are struggling to stock enough of the top end Lumias to meet demand as they have recently become way more popular than expected

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Paris Hilton

tee hee?

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The sold a lot of 520s because you could buy one without contract for around $70 (less than 45£)

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> The sold a lot of 520s because you could buy one without contract for around $70 (less than 45£)

Which is probably less than the manufacturing cost before even adding on the WP licence fee.

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