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back to article Snowden files latest: NSA and GCHQ targeted German satcomms

The NSA and GCHQ hacked into the systems of three German satellite communication providers, according to the latest leaks from the files of Edward Snowden, fugitive ex-NSA sysadmin. Der Spiegel reports that GCHQ and the NSA tried to infiltrate internal networks run by satellite comms firms Stellar, Cetel and IABG. Stellar …

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Anonymous Coward

How soon..

Before normal companies say 'stuff it - encrypt everything'? If proven it appears that the NSA and GCHQ have no morals about their activities, where is the national security aspect of this fresh transgression?

AC because, well you know... helicopters and all that

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Re: How soon..

Playing the 'National Security' Card trumps all other cards including the need to clarify exactly why a given target is in the sights.

Going by the number of people assassinated by remote drone and the numbers of unlamented collateral injuries and deaths in the name of that same National Security I assume the card exonerates the security organisations from needing morals or ethics.

AC? I'm not bothered, they should know that ordinary people think their actions are very wrong. Besides it's been a long time since I had a ride in a helicopter.

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FAIL

Re: How soon..

Before normal companies say 'stuff it - encrypt everything'?

Then the executives will see how much it costs to encrypt everything and they'll say "Vacations and new cars for us or securing our data... VACATIONS! <Fist bumps and a pat on the butt for everyone>"

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Anonymous Coward

Re: How soon..

The NSA and GCHQ hacked into the systems of three German satellite communication providers, according to the latest leaks from the files of Edward Snowden.

Obama laughs at your privacy.

Going by the number of people assassinated by remote drone and the numbers of unlamented collateral injuries and deaths

Don't you mean the number of people Obama has personally authorized to be assassinated without trial by remote drones and his unlamented collateral injuries and deaths? Remember, all Obama has to do is sign a piece of paper for a deadly drone to fly into your window.

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Re: How soon..

Not forgetting the Germans called in the Kunduz airstrike in Afghanistan killing 90 civilians, what was your point about drones again?

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encrypt everything?

I think it's pretty clear that conventional encryption methods don't work against this level of capability. We need to throw out the conventional encryption toolkit and build a new one.

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Re: encrypt everything?

It shows that conventional encryption works very well - otherwise they wouldn't have needed to hack/pwn and generally invade peoples computers.

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How long before normal companies....

... say stuff it, no more tax for you!

What both NSA and GCHQ are doing goes way beyond serving national security interests.

They are both destroying international good will. That puts nations and their citizens at risk. 9/11 didn't happen because Bin Laden woke up in a grumpy mood one day - it happened because people got sick and tired of heavy handed US aircraft-carrier diplomacy.

They are both spying on anyone they choose - including it would seem doing industrial espionage.

The whole purpose of paying tax into the public purse is to allow the government to do good deeds for the nation. There is clearly a lot of money going into funding organizations that are not in the best interests of the citizens, but actually to their detriment.

How long before tax payers realise their tax dollars/quid are enabling this? I would not be surprised if we soon see some people/companies refusing to participate in funding this hooliganism.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: How long before normal companies....

> I would not be surprised if we soon see some people/companies refusing to participate in funding this hooliganism.

That is not a very good idea, you would see the taxman cometh and enlighten those who refuse to pay. Will you volunteer to be the first to protest by not paying taxes?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: How long before normal companies....

How long before tax payers realise their tax dollars/quid are enabling this? I would not be surprised if we soon see some people/companies refusing to participate in funding this hooliganism.

agree, because I don't have to pay my taxes if the government is doing something with the money that I disagree with. although it should've been easy enough to find a point of contention before, this is the last straw...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: How long before normal companies....

> it happened because people got sick and tired of heavy handed US aircraft-carrier diplomacy.

Look what happens when the US doesn't use aircraft-carrier diplomacy and relies on the EU to police their backyard - Russia invades, and annexes parts of other countries.

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Devil

@Charles Manning - Re: How long before normal companies....

> ... say stuff it, no more tax for you!

Well the Amazons and Googles and Vodafones et al of this world don't need to say that, because they already have cozy deals with the taxman...

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Re: How long before normal companies....

"Will you volunteer to be the first to protest by not paying taxes?"

Nope, this is not something the little guy can do at all effectively. A big corp on the other hand is a different matter...

Corporates regularly use their tax payment as leverage. Apple, Microsoft and others often threaten to take their toys away if cities or states don't do what they want.

Airbus USA could easily do the same.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "9/11 didn't happen because Bin Laden woke up in a grumpy mood"

Seeing as Bin Laden didn't know anything about 9/11 until after it happened, I would guess you're probably right there.

That's the trouble with suicide missions. It's hard to stop other people from stealing the credit for them afterwards. But presumably Mohamed Atta wasn't interested in personal glory.

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Re: How long before normal companies....

"Look what happens when the US doesn't use aircraft-carrier diplomacy and relies on the EU to police their backyard - Russia invades, and annexes parts of other countries."

as opposed to when the US creates and arms terrorist organizations that later come around and bite them and everyone else on the ass?

bravo.

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Stop

Re: How long before normal companies....

"Look what happens when the US doesn't use aircraft-carrier diplomacy... - Russia invades"

Alternatively, look what happens when the US uses aggressive expansion as diplomacy over a couple of decades in Eastern Europe: Russia protects its interests.

Both of these stories are overly simplistic, but both have some truth. Just because Russia has behaved badly does not mean the US should have been more aggressive: it is possible* if the West was less aggressive Russia would have behaved better.

* a counterfactual, impossible to prove either way. Better than evens if the West had been just the right amount less aggressive, I'd guess. Ho hum.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: How long before normal companies....

> it happened because people got sick and tired of heavy handed US aircraft-carrier diplomacy.

Hiow can you be so sure, because 13 years later it looks more and more like it happened to enable the sort of full-spectrum industrial espionage that we now witness amongst many other things.

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Devil

@ AC -- Re: How long before normal companies....

That is not a very good idea, you would see the taxman cometh and enlighten those who refuse to pay.

Well... if the SCOTUS decides that $ENTITY can opt-out of any $GOVT_PROGRAM simply because of religious "objections", you'll soon see that $ENTITY may well start being able to "[refuse] to participate in funding this hooliganism."

The Law of Unintended Consequences is an equal-opportunity bitch.

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Re: How long before normal companies....

Good Job the NSA was on the job and had advance warning of the....oh wait!

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The US is simply no longer trustworthy.

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Anonymous Coward

Governments and businesses are no longer trustworthy

FTFY

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Anonymous Coward

When were governments and businesses ever trustworthy?

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Anonymous Coward

"Governments and businesses and churches and banks and quangos and newspapers and charities and law enforcement agencies and intelligence agencies and political parties and all the rest are no longer trustworthy"

FTFFY

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Flame

Customer base?

>>The US is simply no longer trustworthy.

No political entity is trustworthy.

Here in the USSA right wing gun nuts are experiencing a schism between the knee jerk "free enterprise" patriots and Tea Party elements who fear tyranny in its police state form as a derivative of various security, prison, military support and intel-collecting privatizations, the same privatizations that, ironically, gave us Snowden & Co. It has become clear to even monkeys in the trees that the customers for NSA data-driven geopolitics go far beyond US Govt. agencies, to the point that the gubmint may not even be the primary recipient of NSA data + analysis, rather the recipient is actually what them gun toting pickup truck jockeys fear most- an "invisible hand" shadow government run by an international financial oligarchy hell bent on debt management even as the world comes crashing down on all our ears.

With only 8 countries in the world not making loan shark payments to the World Bank, the IMF, the City of London and the Vatican-Venetian fondi banks, and those 8 countries being commie countries, one can begin to entertain a new interpretive overlay on "Arab Spring", "Ukranian Spring", and all the other artesian springs and bed springs that are springing up like kudzu in our greenhouse.

We gotta get smarter faster and thanks to E. Snowden, prof. emeritus at Camouflage University's department of Sleight of Hand, we got a shot at it.

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Re: Customer base?

@Walter

Thanks...you're the one person that actually made any sense. Vilification of single organizations will not stop until we all realize that EVERY political organization has their "hand in the cookie jar" (and a few of the larger corporations as well ...<cough> Microsoft...<Ahem> apple, google, FB, etc...)

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Boffin

Blackberry

The Nokia got 0wn3d, but it seems the BlackBerry didn't. Maybe BB should capitalize on this? They've got "we're the only one authorized to operate on the DoD networks" but adding "NSA proof" has got to give them some extra points.

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Re: Blackberry

they didnt need to hack the blackberry - as you stated its authorised to run on DoD networks, thats pwned by definition right there.

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Mushroom

A new low for GCHQ?

If this is true someone at GCHQ needs to be held accountable.

Misplaced zeal over terrorists is one thing - economic espionage that actually damages UK firms interests is quite another. The A380 is chock full of British tech that probably made its way straight to Boeing.

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El Reg files latest: Global Operating Devices target NSA and GCHQ‽

April Fools’ Day Hoax or the Real McCoy?

Well, what are you waiting for? Read the news below and then share if you dare and would care what you think so that we can see if you think at all clearly enough to be a personality of interest to intelligence service providers. It be a little something shared earlier elsewhere and comments on rigged markets and is very APT here too.

amanfromMars ….Tue, 04/01/2014 - 02:45 … http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-31/lewis-top-high-freaks-storm-top-amazons-bestseller-list

Obviously rigged and dysfunctional, as in intellectually bankrupt and challenged ponzi markets, are only just one sort of rotten apple in the putrid barrel, for here is news and court evidence of more that is not as it seems and seemly, and rotten to its sub-prime cores.

All is not entirely lost though, for such does so ever so conveniently provide they who and/or that which knows what it is doing and what needs to be done in failed and failing sectors, with all the ammunition that IT and/or they need to collapse and rebuild systems in a completely new and different better beta configuration of ITs/their own making. And pity the fool and useless tool that would bet against IT and not help them.

The development and use of surveillance technologies will be one of the defining issues of our times. The reach of these capabilities is astonishingly broad. Governments can listen in on cell phone calls, use voice recognition to scan mobile networks, read e-mails and text messages, sensor web pages, track a citizen's every movement using GPS, and can even change e-mail contents en route to a recipient. They can secretly turn on webcams built into personal laptops and microphones and cell phones not being used. And all of this information can be filtered and organized on such a massive scale that it can be used to spy on every person in an entire country. …. http://cryptome.org/2014/03/hammond-065.pdf

… which be from the sentencing transcript of United States [Secret Private and Pirate Conspiring Entities] of America versus Jeremy Hammond, which goes on to further fully share the lucrative opportunities which abound in ITs burgeoning intelligence surveillance and capture field with the following few gems ……

Professor Ludlow writes that "Jeremy Hammond's exploratory hacks helped expose the scope and nature of the private intelligence industry. Along the way he exposed a well-organized and well-funded system of deception and targeting American citizens and other populations worldwide. He showed that the deceptions were systematic, sometimes illegal, and oftentimes nothing more than extraordinarily disturbing.

"Few people realize that in addition to the familiar U.S. government intelligence agencies-- the FBI, the NSA and the CIA-- and military intelligence operations, there are also a number of private intelligence corporations, a sector of the intelligence community that was not well known, but was massive in its scope.

“Tim Shorrock, author of Spies for Hire: The Secret World of Intelligence Outsourcing, cites government estimates that by 2006 $42 billion of the $60 billion spent annually by the United States government on foreign and domestic intelligence was going to private intelligence firms, meaning that about 70 percent of the money spent on intelligence was being outsourced to entities over which the American public had no ability to learn. This also means that most of the intelligence activities take place outside of the oversight that governments have put in place lo these many years, oversights that apply to the CIA, the NSA and the FBI. And of course the American U.S. government is far from the only customer of these services. They also provide intelligence services to multi-national corporations and lobbying groups.”

Have a nice day, y'all. And cheer up. SMARTR IntelAgent Systems and Global Operating Devices are working on IT for you too and not just for themselves in SISter Reality AIMissions in the Live Operational Virtual Environments which can be Presented from Creative CyberSpace with Absolute Command and Remote Control of Computers and Communications.

And what price do you imagine that IPO on a rigged and open market place? How many billions/trillions/gazillions/zeroes?

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WTF?

What I find mysteriously unexplained...

...is the conspicuous lack of news of heart attack / stroke related fatalities in the higher ranks of NSA immediately after Snowden started doing its thing. I mean, in the light of all that has transpired so far if back then I asked "what has been taken?" and got the answer "well basically everything about everything we ever did, sir" I know I'd have been liable to have one on the spot.

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Roo
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Re: What I find mysteriously unexplained...

"...is the conspicuous lack of news of heart attack / stroke related fatalities in the higher ranks of NSA immediately after Snowden started doing its thing. "

The reason for that is that the culture of secrecy conveniently extends into the domains of accountability and taking responsibility. ;)

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