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back to article EVE Online erects mashed-up memorial to biggest space fight in history

A single missed micropayment sparked off an epic interstellar battle on EVE Online that was so costly the developers have decided to erect a permanent monument to the conflict. EVE Online battle The Titanomachy monument (click to enlarge) CCP Games, the Icelandic firm behind the massively multiplayer online role-playing …

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The best bit?

This is all player created. Not a scripted, repeatable event - a one off piece of history that players can not only see happening but actually participate in. I remember the first time I saw a Titan....it was enormous and it took our fleet to a new home out in null sec. EVE has a lot of flaws but it also has moments of genius I've never seen in any other game.

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Re: The best bit?

"This is all player created. Not a scripted, repeatable event - a one off piece of history that players can not only see happening but actually participate in."

While reading the article, not being someone who plays games like this (hell, I don't even play console games online - I just stick to offline play) I was thinking "meh, so what?"

But then I watched the video, and your comment above neatly sums up what I thought as it played out.

I'll still stick to playing games offline, though.

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Re: The best bit?

If they wanted to create a proper memorial they should rename the system

'Tannhauser Gate'

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Trollface

Re: The best bit?

You heard it here first: Everyone misunderstood Roy. He was just an EVE player.

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Anonymous Coward

Once

Tried to get into this a number of years ago, then realised having a life was more important to me, unlike those who have to invest so much of their time in it.

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MrT
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"One man's meat...

...is another man's poison", or vice versa.

Time is ours to waste, but it's only a waste of time to someone else. We all do it one way or another.

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Anonymous Coward

lies greed and back stabbing = eve online

forgot to pay .. hmm maybe he was paid off .. happens so many times in eve ..

trust no one and always have 3 back up plans ..

I know a few people that have 11 alts on different sides and play information against itself

eve is so much like the real world greed back stabbing .. even the mods have alts ..you could say control from above ..

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Terminator

Re: lies greed and back stabbing = eve online

Eve is the modern equivilent of the board game Diplomacy. But far, far nastier...

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Re: lies greed and back stabbing = eve online

quote: "eve is so much like the real world greed back stabbing .. even the mods have alts ..you could say control from above .."

If you have a massive problem with behaviour like that in a game which you can easily avoid, I can only imagine how annoyed you must be at Real Life, which costs a lot more per month and is mandatory to participate in :(

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this is why i love this game

even though the doctrine used was designed to crash the server. Where else can you have fights like this.

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Facepalm

False sense of achievement maxed out...

Gonna get downed for this, but...

What a monumental waste of time and money.

On the other hand these players might have a better social life than me...

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Holmes

Re: False sense of achievement maxed out...

Violent crime in America has been declining at an amazing, record-breaking pace since the widespread introduction of home console and PC video games.

You aren't wrong. But never forget - your "waste of time" could be some young man's escape from bloody neighborhood gang wars.

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Re: False sense of achievement maxed out...

You are absolutely right, ofcourse. Bit of tongue in cheek on my part. I enjoy games as much as the next person. Some might call my time spend a waste also.

A virtual world spiraled out of control forcing players to join fractions and attacking other fractions.

I wonder what those people would do if they would meet in the streets wearing their war colors...

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Re: False sense of achievement maxed out...

No more so than playing chess for hours on end, or watching any TV show that is kind of cool now, but will be yesterday's news in a few years.

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What a monumental waste of time and money

says the commentard.

Just pointing that out, just typing this is a waste of time and money.

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Happy

Re: False sense of achievement maxed out...

"No more so than playing chess for hours on end, or watching any TV show that is kind of cool now, but will be yesterday's news in a few years."

Well. it's lasted for over ten years now and it's still going, so don't hold your breath waiting for it to fold just yet.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: False sense of achievement maxed out...

Also we have to remember the varied demographics of eve, likely due to its massive social complexity http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/73406

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Re: False sense of achievement maxed out...

"I wonder what those people would do if they would meet in the streets wearing their war colors..."

Probably to your big surprise: Have a couple of cold ones at whichever conveniently positioned pub and reminisce about the dastardly deeds of high treason and other shenanigans people pull off on both sides. This in fact happens officially and regularly, as the leaders of the large coalitions tend to end up in the advisory player comittee that CCP runs to keep tabs on their player base.

The real Ärger is usually found in the smaller skirmishes and some bottomfeeding practices by "EVElitists". Engagements at this scale result from a careful political and diplomatic dance that plays out over months, if not years. When stuff blows up like this, it's reason for celebration for most people. It doesn't happen that often, even in EVE, and just to be a part in it is a thrill.

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Re: What a monumental waste of time and money

Damn straight commenting on here is a waste of money. I want a refund goddamn it!

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Trollface

Re: What a monumental waste of time and money

What - you don't get paid for your comments? The rest of us do. $100 for each upvote, isn't it?

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Re: False sense of achievement maxed out...

Buy each other a pint and sit in the boozer talking shite about it. Which is how most of my gaming-meets-real-life things go.

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Re: What a monumental waste of time and money

If you want to not waste money on the Reg then turn off your computer. You'll save on your electric bills.

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Re: False sense of achievement maxed out...

There's only a real money comparison here because you can buy "plex" which give you game time. You can also sell those plex on the market to get in-game currency. The value is therefore based on how many plex you'd need to buy with real money in order to get the equivalent in-game cash to buy all of the ships that were destroyed.

But the main way of getting in-game cash is PvE content, like mining, industry, missions, ratting etc. So the real money comparison is kind-of silly when a large proportion of the asserts that were destroyed almost certainly came from this source, not real money.

Basically, the £300k thing is just marketing bollocks.

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Gnu

Re: False sense of achievement maxed out...

What do you do with your free time, Martin? Please enlighten us so we can tell you what a waste it is.

Honestly, you knew you were gonna get downed for it because it's a terribly perilous argument. False sense of achievement, seriously? Do their achievements become false when someone somewhere doesn't comprehend them? If I compose an awesome jazz piece, is it permanently irrelevant because my neighbor doesn't understand jazz? If I take pride in my hard-earned (and even harder-spent, given the expense of golf) handicap, is it all for naught just because a few folks reckon golf is mind-numbingly boring? I get that the immaterial nature of online gaming is somewhat difficult to get one's head around, but I could make the same argument about people who devote their lives to chess.

Or do you just not understand computer games? I can certainly respect that, although I fear you're probably asserting your opinion in the wrong place. I haven't touched an MMO in years, but this kinda makes me long for it again.

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Go

Re: False sense of achievement maxed out...

Whoa, you Wild Beast you. Just stirring the pot a bit.

I actually respect people who can balance a job and enjoy their hobby, whatever it is. Me? I have quite a range of hobbies that some people might call wasteful. But this sums up my general feeling:

From the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25944837

"I keep thinking, I would love it," wrote LockeNCole on Reddit.

"I could build a little section of the universe for my own.

"Then I realise I have kids and would rather play with them."

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Thumb Up

Re: False sense of achievement maxed out...

Actually if you check out Eve really closely you may well find that the warfare side is about 10% of the time spent in it. A lot of people happily run missions or get a group together to mine asteroids in the belts while drinking beer and chatting, then there is the trading, research, manufacturing....

It's not all pew pew pew.

I still have a binder pad that I used when I was a CEO of a small corp and its full of mining numbers, ore prices, blueprint buffing, costs and fees for this and that, fuel numbers for running our own space station, divvying up ISK earned, you name it.

Eve is one hell of a game that can be played from so many ways and angles. Untill you play it for more than a month you really can't imagine it. Makes WoW look like noughts and crosses.

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Re: False sense of achievement maxed out...

Y'know that is so weird that it may be true.

I was playing an online game and generally expressing some dissatisfaction with some players when the guy I was talking to said 'you shouldn't do that: In real life they are a gang in LA and they could find out who you are'

My character (a gorgeous enchantress), replied. 'in real life I am a sixty year old bloke living in England, do you really think so?'

I think a lot of kids who would otherwise be on the streets are into their consoles. It probably isn't the best thing they could be doing, but its probably a ling way from the worst as well.

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MrT
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;-) $100 an upvote...

...and $200 for each downvote - the trick is to stay in credit...

For example, Eadon wasn't voted out, he ran out of money even after mortgaging everything he had. The irony was, he posted everything from his XBox One Developer Edition and was paid for each comment, but even MS couldn't foot the bills he ran up... allegedly.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: ;-) $100 an upvote...

I'm not sure that would be a good idea. Rewarding upvotes over downvotes is likely merely to reinforce groupthink. Big Brother (the Orwellian one) and Stalin would be in favour of the scheme. One of the odd things about the WWW and search engines is that, rather than expose us to new ideas, they tend to provide confirming instances of what we already think. This is having a deleterious effect on politics (Tea Party and Taliban websites being obvious examples.)

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Facepalm

Re:What a monumental waste of time and money.

Much like real war then.

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MrT
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Henry William Allingham, 1896-2009...

... last surviving founder member of the RAF, the last man to have witnessed the Battle of Jutland and the last surviving member of the Royal Naval Air Service. RIP.

"War's stupid. Nobody wins. You might as well talk first, you have to talk last anyway."

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Re: False sense of achievement maxed out...

Depends on your point of view, I suppose.

Some people when asked what their hobbies are may say computer gaming. Eve, being so immersive and is more than just flying a spaceship zapping people would have players say that Eve is their hobby.

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Headmaster

Re: False sense of achievement maxed out...

If you get enough fractions to join together, you could get a whole lot of fun ;)

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Re: False sense of achievement maxed out...

Actually, no. There is achievement here - by the game design team.

While I am not an EVE player, I tend to follow how rules change in major online games out of "scientific interest". If memory serves me right initially in EVE, the Titan class of warship was predominantly a logistics choice. It could warp in, create a gate and allow you to warp in your fleet. The necessity to protect your "gate builders" used to force a rather conservative strategy onto major fleet engagements making long term players and alliances accumulate massive amounts of inactive assets.

That is bad for a game (even as addictive as EVE). Sooner or later people get bored.

So the developer tweaked the rules. However, IMHO, they overtweaked them too much in the opposite direction to a point where a conflict between major powers is guaranteed to degenerate into a mutual self-assured destruction with no winner (also bad for the game in the long term).

In EVE today Titans can go into battle and can carry a nearly impossible to deflect weapon (one that can fire only once every 10 minutes). This has changed the doctrine and strategy and stats quite clearly show it. The losses of Titans vs other capital ships in this engagement is vastly disproportionate 7:1. One can think of this as "nuclear" vs "pre-nuclear" conflict. Both sides now have a doomsday device and are lobbing it at each other at the maximum rate they can.

In any case, the ones who win here are the games developers - several major powers with a large number of assets which were dormant for a while now need to rebuild. That means a lot more time clocked on EVE as well as money flowing into EVE's coffers.

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Mushroom

Re: False sense of achievement maxed out...

"""I wonder what those people would do if they would meet in the streets wearing their war colors..."""

Well THEY DO, every year, often in Iceland.

It is called EvE fanfest (http://fanfest.eveonline.com/en/default), where they HAVE FUN, drink beer, listen to satanic music (Metal and electro ;) ), and elect their consultative player parliament to represent them to CCP.

BLOODY AWFUL ;)

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Flame

Re: False sense of achievement maxed out...

"I wonder what those people would do if they would meet in the streets wearing their war colors..."

From an interview with the two opposing fleet commanders Laz and Manny (http://crossingzebras.com/b-r-the-fc-perspective-transcription/)

"Manny: Laz is a very good dear friend of mine and so, I gave him a pretty good walloping in HED, he returned the favour in B-R. I can promise you that I’ll be trying to engineer or plot a situation where I can pay him back and no matter what we’re going to stay friends.

Laz: EVE does, you don’t have to hate your opponent in EVE. I mean, I know I get along with most of the people I’m fighting right now, and you don’t have to hate them, you don’t have to have some grudge – it can be fun."

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Re: False sense of achievement maxed out...

"I wonder what those people would do if they would meet in the streets wearing their war colors..."

Probably have an indecipherable conversation about it for several hours, rather than capping each other.

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Re: False sense of achievement maxed out...

...and if people are having fun doing it though...

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Well. it's lasted for over ten years now and it's still going,...

So did the TV show "Friends".

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Re: False sense of achievement maxed out...

Thats what I remember of EVE as well I wish I still played it but real life has kept me from it. I used to love the late night wormhole fights or doing incursions sadly none of the guys I used to play with still do it but I would love to get back to it eventually and start to build back up a small corp.

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Looks really impressive

Does anything like this exist for contemporary terrestrial naval warfare (outside of military war colleges and think tanks)?

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Re: Looks really impressive

I dont think so as far as contemporary naval combat. There are some pirate online games out there where you "take your ship and loot and pillage the Spanish Main to develop a better ship/crew/etc." that support some kind of player vs. player combat, but I don't play them or pay enough attention to them to know if you can get 30-40 pirate ships on a side banging away at eachother.

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Re: Looks really impressive

"Does anything like this exist for contemporary terrestrial naval warfare (outside of military war colleges and think tanks)?"

Hopefully not. What has not been mentioned is a thing called "time dilation" which is a means whereby CCP tries to prevent the server crashing, remember all those ships, missile, drone etc. were on a single node.

Time dilation slows everything down and from comments made from people watching, the fight was running at about 2 fps. I was otherwise engaged making ISK so can't say whether it was as bad as that, though if it was it must have been like watching paint dry.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Looks really impressive

find a copy of harpoon

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Looks really impressive

Have you thought how slowly the action unfolded in real naval battles in the days of sail? Until ships were extremely close things usually unfolded in very slow motion - and even then for much of the period reloading was so slow that broadsides could be something like an hour apart (it was rapid gunnery that led to RN superiority.)

One unnerving RN tactic was to approach the enemy in dead silence, with the gunners and crew lying between the guns (the safest place till action started). That could be half an hour or more which would indeed be as exciting to watch as paint drying - though no fun for the particpants.

Even the Battles of Jutland, Midway and the Coral Sea consisted of long periods of comparative boredom with short bursts of extremely noisy activity.

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Black Helicopters

Re: Looks really impressive

I wasn't aware that apart from submarines hunting each other in the dark there WAS any contemporary terrestrial naval warfare.

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Re: Looks really impressive

Itzman: "I wasn't aware that apart from submarines hunting each other in the dark there WAS any contemporary terrestrial naval warfare."

Look up the General Belgrano.

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Re: Looks really impressive

"Look up the General Belgrano."

Presenting a very small engagement from two decades ago may not be helping your argument.

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Re: Looks really impressive

For two decades read three decades. Time flies...

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Re: Looks really impressive

Then check out the "Battle of Daecheong".

Or the Royal Navy personnel captured by the Iranians in 2007.

Or the several hundred pirate attacks, mostly in the Indian Ocean, since 2000.

Naval warfare is currently pretty low-key, but it hasn't gone away.

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