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back to article 9,000 heads to roll at Dell? Tosh. It'll all go down in Feb and it's THOUSANDS more - insiders

We’re being told that the 9,000 heads redundancy figure at Dell is wrong - it could be 17,000 or more. Dell disputes this strongly, saying our sources' numbers are "inaccurate", but refused to give us a figure. Across the whole Dell worldwide organisation, a figure of 15 to 20 per cent across-the-board cuts has come to us from …

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Anonymous Coward

The outsider is a bit off with Quanta vs IBM market cap

"Quanta has more money than God. They have a larger market cap than friggin' IBM!"

Quanta market cap 293B TWD = 9.7B USD

IBM market cap 205B USD

Nothing more to add..

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Joke

Re: The outsider is a bit off with Quanta vs IBM market cap

Ouch. Epic currency fail. Unless it was in bitcoins in which case it might be greater than IBM's after lunch.

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Just love the corporate speak

"We want to reiterate that the reported work force reduction is wildly inaccurate. We have taken steps to optimize our business and improve our efficiency over the past few years and have made solid progress executing our end-to-end solutions strategy. "

We are in the shit

"We’ve expanded our portfolio and capabilities and are well positioned to shape the forces of cloud, big data, mobile and security that are changing the way people live, businesses operate and the world works."

We've paniced a bit and are not sure where to go

"Our strategy is a multi-year initiative and while we recognize it will take more time and investment to fully implement, we’ve seen proof points of progress over the past few quarters. We are expanding our relationships with customers and this is reflected in recent share gains. We’ll continue to review our operations and make prudent business decisions over time."

Byeeee!

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Alert

Re: Just love the corporate speak

"We mentioned all this to Dell and a company spokesperson said:" Nothing.

Early last year I reported on a workforce reduction at a major semiconductor company that my sources told me were 8% of all U.S. employees. My sources were solid as granite, and included numbers from the outplacement firm they referred all the newly unemployed to. Regardless, the "company spokesman" kept insisting that it was "much less than 2%".

Keep in mind that when a company spokesman issues a statement they may not know the real number themselves, they are just repeating what top management told them to say.

In my case, what was ironic was that the company's public canned statement of "We are continuing to focus on segment1, segment2, segment3", they listed the three segments they had poured almost no R&D money into from the past three years, and were also the hardest hit in the layoffs.

El Reg, you need an icon for Irony.

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Here's a bit of a change...

... in that someone did not put a snide and mocking headline over an article about thousands of people losing their jobs.

Hopefully this was deliberate and not a mere oversight.

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Childcatcher

Re: Here's a bit of a change...

This shall be remedied forthwith, I hope. It's like not making a joke about the holocaust.

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Pint

Re: Here's a bit of a change...

"This shall be remedied forthwith, I hope. It's like not making a joke about the holocaust."

That would be ghastly and would only add fuel to the flames.

I have managed to get over the potato famine, I wish others would get with the program. Anyway, I do not like stereotyping. As an alcoholic, potato addict with a penchant for fighting English people and Irish people if there are no English available. I would just like to say that stereotyping sons of the desert is as productive as stereotyping us drunken violent sons of the bog.

Hicccc, bejasus me glass is after being empty, tis a Saxon plot to deny me my birthright. hiccc (Launches into song about his blessed virgin mother and heroic alcohol fuelled attacks gainst the Saxon foe) ;)

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Re: Here's a bit of a change...

Don't make me mention ... OLIVER CROMWELL!

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Holmes

Texas Dellsaw massacre!

“You know, you learn in business school that you need the right CEO for different phases of a company. Clint Eastwood said famously in Magnum Force: 'A man's got to know his limitations'. MSD [Michael Dell seems] unaware of his.”

A strong statement. I don't see this at all. How exactly doesn't Michael Dell know his limitations?

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Re: Texas Dellsaw massacre!

Well, you don't see that because that statement has fuck all to do with Dell the man or Dell the company. That statement was 100% about the person who said it.

It's Wall Street shit talk plain and simple. The person who said that probably drove home in a 1982 Maserati Bi-Turbo and will spend the next few nights pulling his pudd while staring at his quote. He'll think people are really paying attention to him now! He'll be insufferable for weeks.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Texas Dellsaw massacre!

Or until his soap doesn't lather anymore

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Re: Texas Dellsaw massacre!

“You know, you learn in business school that you need the right CEO for different phases of a company. Clint Eastwood said famously in Magnum Force: 'A man's got to know his limitations'. MSD [Michael Dell seems] unaware of his.”

Well it wasn't wasn't M. Dell who ran the company into the ground, now was it? In fact, it is him who has had take it over and try to rescue it.

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Devil

Re: Texas Dellsaw massacre!

The Dell fanbois commeth.....

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So, in the past, when I called Dell (not anymore!) and got transferred all over hells (Dells?) creation, and eventually got put on hold until I hung up, no one, not one of their hundred thousand employees could pick up a phone and answer even my simplest question? not even to take an order?

We've got a saying now when something craps out at work and we get pissed off at it, instead of saying it's a piece if sh!t, we say it's a piece of Dell. two phrases, same meaning.

Lay 'em off Dell, nothing, and I mean nothing, can save that company. As the saying goes, you can't polish a terd, or a Dell.

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<snip>

<snip>

"We've got a saying now when something craps out at work and we get pissed off at it, instead of saying it's a piece if sh!t, we say it's a piece of Dell. two phrases, same meaning.

Lay 'em off Dell, nothing, and I mean nothing, can save that company. As the saying goes, you can't polish a terd, or a Dell."

I say old chap, eloquently put and not in the least subjective.

I have just bought 4 top notch Toshiba machines over past few months, to date all four have died.

One had a fan that failed and can make a hot toastie at the moment, another had a dead mother board, one has dead USB ports and the fourth failed today with the F8 wireless key dying.

Horses for courses, I am buying 10 Dell laptops next week, the Toshiba's were forced on me.

p.s.

Come back Packhard Bell all is forgiven ;)

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Anonymous Coward

Who makes Tosh's laptops?

Wouldn't be Quanta would it (as mentioned earlier in the comments)?

Does anybody sell *quality* product at reasonable price these days, or have I got to carry on buying refurb enterprise stuff from the time when you could actually trust one or two names?

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Re: Who makes Tosh's laptops?

"Does anybody sell *quality* product at reasonable price these days, or have I got to carry on buying refurb enterprise stuff from the time when you could actually trust one or two names?"

Short answer: no. And hasn't ever since I can remember. Which has been for almost 2 decades. Oh there are some exceptions, but that's all they are. An obscure model with a forgettable model number that actually worked great while everything else in that model line sucked.

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FAIL

Bad personnel management to let this go unchallenged

It's hard to turn the company around when everyone is wondering who will get the axe.

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Re: Bad personnel management to let this go unchallenged

Normally I would agree 100% but Dell's problems are 100% related to operations costs, not product velocity or product catalog. Nobody gets to keep their job if a bunch of others don't lose theirs.

It is truly unfortunate, but ever increasing and, ultimately unsustainable, operations costs are a pretty standard death for low margin businesses. Low pricing allows you to scale quickly and establish your place in the market. But once that's done, the only way you can stay alive are the shenanigans everybody hates. You can't drive vendors down any farther, you can't sell your products any cheaper and it's difficult to pay employees less than they currently get. You certainly can't raise your prices, non-captive markets rarely support that. The only option you've got is cutting jobs.

Employees are by far the most expensive part of running a business but if you go the low margin, high volume, route you've got to have far more employees than a lower volume operation. Unfortunately employee costs never stop increasing. Even at reasonable, year over year revenue growth or even if your volume and margins remain stable, there's an inevitable breaking point where employee costs exceed your capacity to cover.

It really sucks, but that's the life of low margin business. People go on about executive pay, but in large companies you could completely eliminate executive salaries and it wouldn't help in the slightest. Basically every other business sector knows how low margin operations will play out. They've been seeing them coming and going for ages. Now the computer industry is beginning to mature and we'll see plenty more companies following Dell down the drain.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Bad personnel management to let this go unchallenged

You sound like a Dell CEO in training.

"Employees are by far the most expensive part of running a business."

Employees make the company money. If Dell cant leverage the work of those individuals to offset their cost then its the employees fault? Low margin huh? I have seen the amount of margjin they make off of hardware. The Majority of time it isnt that "low". Additionally on the service side the margin is anything but low. You show me a year where Dell hasnt made money hand over fist and I will agree with you.

The problem is Dell sees people as an expendable resource. They lay people off who stay in a position too long who are very good at their job while addressing the issues that keep them in the position. In 2000 employees were in it for the customer and for the company. Do the right thing for the customer while keeping costs low. Make a personal investment etc. Corp culture was good. Work was hard but you were rewarded for it. Managers actually managed instead of just using stats to justify not giving someone something that was promised. Then Michael Dell left. They started taking away benifits. The Stock issues happened. Stock purchase plan which was the heart beat of Dell stock was taken away. Managers stopped managing and started massaging numbers and piling bodies to get their next promotion. Customer sat went to hell. Pulling the data in a different way couldnt offset public opinion. Then Michael Dell came back and instead of whipping everyone into shape who knew how things were supposed to be run. He fired everyone and hired a bunch of new people who could only learn how to do things the wrong way and the deline continued. Dell was very very slow getting into the services market. They had the brain power and the talent but those individuals were stuck in positions that were too low to be promoted into job roles they could excel at. Dell hires externally and pays more for people who have a long ramp up time etc than hiring internally because Dell doesnt value their own people. Dell used to be awesome but they havent been that way in a number of years.

Ohh and here is the funniest part. There is a motto at Dell. "Dell is a good first and 3rd job." You work at dell for a couple of years and could go make 2x 3x your salary anywhere else. You will never make that at Dell. Promotions and raises are almost impossible. You work for Dell, quit then go work for another company then come back to Dell and make what your worth. The people that are getting laid off will get an ok serverance package. 80% of them will have HR help them find an alternate position in which they offer them their old position. That right we are laying you off from this job .. but hey would you like to have this other one AND ITS THE SAME JOB. I would have to say that 90% of them get called 2-3 months and offered their old job back a lot of the time with more money. Its a shell game moving money here and there to make things look a certain way sometimes at the expense of employees. The majority of people I know are happier, healthier and richer after leaving or being left by Dell.

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WHAT MEMORIES....

Back in 97/98 at one company when I was in IT, when we had something go wrong with a Dell, we'd say, "WHAT the DELL!?"

Now, it looks like Dell's Bells are ringing... For whom Dells toll...

Sadly, the affected employees are facing Dell AND high water....

Hopefully, Dell turns himself/itself around and positively makes people say, "WHAT THE DELL???!!!"

Unfortunately, for the Dells, they appear to be:

-- wedded indefinitely to windows

-- unable to make deep, long-lasting, critical-mass symbiosis with Linux

-- dabbling with Android, but may be confused about Linux and Android

Is Dell still making money (hand over fist?) from the acquisition of AlienWare?

Maybe Dell can flex itself out to the NSA's quantum brain project? THAT would definitely/likely prompt a vacuum-making "WHAT the DELL???!!!" reaction....

Question (naive, possibly): Is there any way Dell could spin off those 9,000 or so people to in some partnership/"strategic, profit-sharing partnership" so they could focus on some profitable task without throwing more people onto the unemployment rolls?

Maybe the US or the Chine$e (holder$ of U$-debt and dollar $anctity) can put together a $trike team to jointly $hare work on something to bide their time yet be productive/product making?

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Re: WHAT MEMORIES....

Yep in the late 90s I remember people in Austin bragging about Dellionaires such as ex-secretaries who got rich on Dell stock given to them. Quite the fall.

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Re: WHAT MEMORIES....

Why did you have to remind me Alienware might vanish.

It's like losing the part of my teenage years that went to lots of LAN parties and thought Alien Wares were the best because of not knowing any better.

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If you listen closely...

You can hear Steve Jobs laughing his ass off..

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Being a Satisfied Customer of Dell

Is the loneliest feeling in the world

Maybe I'm a distant relative of Michael Dell

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Unhappy

Dell's Problems are Dell's fault

Many Dell employees seem to lack the ability to think logically and it directly impacts the bottom line. For example:

We have a negotiated preset configuration which we purchase for pretty much all of our users. When we first started ordering them, the tower and the bundled display had only VGA and DVI connections, and we received a DVI and a (useless to us) VGA cable with each order.

Then with the latest hardware rev, Dell changed the video-out on the tower to Display Port but proceeded to still only send us DVI and VGA cables. So we had to contact them and add a display port to DVI adapter to the configuration.

Next, Dell updates the monitors to also include a Display Port connector but they *still* send us DVI and VGA cables and the Display Port to DVI adapter. So we call and ask to get a Display Port cable instead.

Now when we order a computer we get - a Display Port cable, the still useless VGA cable... And a Display Port to DVI adapter.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Dell's Problems are Dell's fault

Dell doesnt reward employees that think logically because it contradicts the direction of management. The intellegent people are crushed under a glut of mental or emotional idiots.

It doesnt matter if your right if you make someone feel bad. We are at work. We arent in a relationship. I shoudlnt have more control over your feelings than you do. If me being better at your job than you are makes you feel bad. Get better at your job or get used to feeling bad. Go talk to a mental health and well being person.

It doesnt matter if you get any work done as long as you try. The people who should be held accountable who can correct things never are. Its always people downline who have to foot the bill fixing others mistakes whos causes are never addressed.

You can keep a job a Dell forever by being reasonably incompetant. Apologise when you make a mistake. Never argue. Agree with everything emphatically.

Unreasonably competant. Your right, your good at your job and you would hard and dont have the time to make people feel good about being bad at theirs. Lose your job.

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FAIL

Good Riddance

Dell lost its way in 1999 with all of its grandiosely stupid ploys to get into Enterprise computing and a host of really insane acquisitions along the way.

Won't miss them or their people at all and remain convinced it's the best thing for the Computer industry since the abacus went with Shiny red beads...

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Why the hate?

For me, Dell have been fantastic over the past six or seven years when it comes to bog standard desktop PCs and laptops for SMEs. Not only are their prices decent, but the product is on the whole at least as reliable as anything comparable (the occasional duff model of laptop excepted) and just as importantly they have consistently been truly excellent in dealing with issues arising during the warranty period (and even outside it sometimes.)

I suspect though they could live quite happily without the apparently huge numbers of Indian-based sales people that like to try and get in touch after a sale - I didn't need them to make that purchase, why would I want to speak to them the next time I'm after some machines? Web-based ordering removes the language barriers and you see everything clearly laid out in print before you buy.

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"Our strategy is a multi-year initiative"- So, Dell is planning a multi- year employee sacking initiative. Right-Oh!!

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No what they did was buy a bunch of companies. Integrate their worth into the stock which was undervauled. Then tell all the stock holders what they were going to pay for the stock then profit.

Now they can sell those pieces, fire people etc. and reap their rewards.

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SVV

So, massive job losses at Intel, massive job losses at Dell

How could this be happening when Windows 8 has been such a roaring success and millions of consumers and businesses are rushing out to buy new PCs to run it on?

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No doubt it will be more

Companies of this size and scale generally operate in the 10k-at-a-time lot size of firings.

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