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back to article Get lost, fanbois: Nokia pulls HERE Maps from Apple's App Store

Nokia has told Apple fanbois to get lost after removing its popular HERE Maps app from the iOS App Store. The Finnish former mobe-maker grumpily blamed its decision on iOS 7, the latest version of Apple's mobile operating system. "We have made the decision to remove our Here Maps app from the Apple App Store because recent …

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OOh lets dangle the maps

in the APP store for Apple users for a while then spread the FUD as to why we pulled it. Problem is Windows phones are just crap. Actually anything Windows is just crap

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Re: OOh lets dangle the maps

quote: "Problem is Windows phones are just crap. Actually anything Windows is just crap"

Thanks for the opinion :)

Personally I disagree, I'd say that Windows is approximately as useful as Linux or HPUX (whether on the desktop or in the datacenter), however I realise that personal experience may colour your opinion one way where mine has coloured it the other. Hell, I even know one person who prefers Windows Phone 8 to iOS, however I suspect that may be an edge case ^^;

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Re: OOh lets dangle the maps

People can choose what they want, its a shame people choose shiny things and have to have specific brands. I myself having a Q10 find most people like it but don't like the Blackberry brand, it seems like Skoda back in the 90's where they were seen as the worst cars ever (Although this might explain why I got a Blackberry and the skip shaped Favorite went on forever).

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Re: OOh lets dangle the maps

Well done. You are at least two rungs up the ladder towards becoming a 'Grump Old Man' who buys non cool stuff just because you can.

Now I must go and polish my Volvo 240.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: OOh lets dangle the maps

Did they jump or were they pushed? Have you read the December app developer newsletter from Apple?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: OOh lets dangle the maps

Yes, I'm sure it's some sort of conspiracy...

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Re: OOh lets dangle the maps

Make that 2, well three through indirection.

I bought into WP7 and much preferred it to iOS, 8 is even better. Daughter number one bought a WP8 device, even though she uses an iPod and a MacBook Pro...

Funnily enough, her Windows 8 using mother is using an old iPhone 3GS...

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Re: OOh lets dangle the maps

I would say due to the number of programs available, Windows or Mac OS still win when it comes to users desktops, but on the server Linux is the way to go as everything you need is available..

The problem with Linux desktop is the lack of support for technologies meaning that while it MIGHT work ok in a restricted business environment, in the home there are too many things not available, to the point I am looking at installing windows for my son soon as his Linux PC doesn't have certain bits of software available and I am dubious whether I can get them working under wine...

For instance there is no Unity Web Player, reducing his online experience,

The lego Mindstorm EV3 software does not work on Linux.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: OOh lets dangle the maps

We grumpy old men like the Q10 because we can bash the keys down angrily, you can't do that on an iPhone.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: OOh lets dangle the maps

What a sad repetition of something which was once true. Have you not used a computer in 5 years mate? Yes Windows was not up to scratch but right now it is by far the most secure operating system available for desktop use. Vista put in place a much improved architecture, Windows 7 polished it and 8 continues to make it much more expensive to create malware for the platform. Deluded sheep will continue to parrot the "Windows is crap" line not because it is true but because that old grey beard at work says it so it must be true.

For any Linux OS to come close it would need to implement grsec/pax - please tell me which distros do that without having to play the old 'recompile the kernel' game...and Mac, don't even bother, jailbreak is synonymous with remote 0 day - how long does it take for a jailbreak to come out after each iOS update?

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FAIL

Re: OOh lets dangle the maps

iOS is not the MAC desktop operating system. Given this rather blaring error, I can only deduce the rest of the post is about as accurate.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: OOh lets dangle the maps

Meh, Google offer better maps than Apple and Nokia, and a better mobile OS than Apple and Nokia/Microsoft.

So, who REALLY cares????

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JLV
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Re: OOh lets dangle the maps

>right now it is by far the most secure operating system available for desktop use

Hmmm, you must have missed the recent CryptoLocker snafu then. Or did I misread and it was a bunch of Linux desktops getting hacked? Macs perhaps?

There are cases where Windows' ecosystem is superior - games or business apps come to mind. And I wouldn't be surprised if Apple were to suffer a major security lapse at some point - user demographics combined with occasional Apple sloppiness (ex: LDAP pwd in cleartext, MacDefender support) make it a tempting target.

But dissing Linux or OSX based on Windows' superior security is a bit surreal. The merits of theoretical MS security for well-managed systems may be debated, but practical MS security for the average consumer's desktop is hardly worth talking about - it only lasts as long as the next malware that shows up.

Reg, can we have an "utterly clueless" icon?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: OOh lets dangle the maps

CryptoLocker spreading is not a failure of the Windows operating system - it's spread using social engineering and relies on the stupidity of the recipient to become useable - a bit like the spread of iDevices; you know, people who are more interested in flashing BRANDS rather than content. I'm sure that if there isn't already something like CryptoLocker for iDevices right now there will be shortly.

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Re: OOh lets dangle the maps

Your kid clearly needs a games console, not a computer then ? Or just get him a Steam account...

There are non-offical-TLG EV3 software environments that work fine on Linux, for a start.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: OOh lets dangle the maps

"and Mac, don't even bother, jailbreak is synonymous with remote 0 day - how long does it take for a jailbreak to come out after each iOS update?"

Oof, bad time to ask that question. The jailbreak for iOS 7 just came out a couple days ago and the OS was released almost 4 months ago. And if I recall correctly, no jailbreak has been "remote." Jailbreaking has always required physical access to the device, usually (but not always) connecting it to a computer that's running specific software. In other words, iOS is pretty secure.

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Facepalm

Re: OOh lets dangle the maps

“dangle the maps”

This is a pretty low hanging fruit that Apple can't produce.

Don't blame Nokia or MS for withdrawing an App that your chosen provider can't provide.

You made your choice, you paid your money, so go bitch to Apple.

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JLV
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Re: OOh lets dangle the maps

>CryptoLocker spreading is not a failure of the Windows operating system

I call BS. First, the .exe extension is hidden due to Windows's stupid policy re extension hiding. Fail #1.

Second, the lack of permissions means anything can do anything once launched.

Third, if you spend anytime on a Windows desktop you are bombarded with warnings about ... everything. In an email, I can't open an Excel spreadsheet that I wrote without a warning. If I want to _view_ the system odbc data sources dialog .... warning.

Anybody clever about security will tell you repeat alarms without just cause will result in folks disregarding real ones.

Fourth, if iStuff is so badly put together, how come the malware is almost always on Windows?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: OOh lets dangle the maps

What's the scoop with the December developer newsletter?

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Re: OOh lets dangle the maps

"Problem is Windows phones are just crap. "

I have a Nokia 1020 running WP8 and its far better than my Android Nexus. No lag, good battery life and more fluid to use. Here navigation is far better than Apple maps. Its equal to Google Maps I would say. I think the Navigation is better on Here but then on Google Maps you have extra features like streetview so comes down to personal preference.

Anyway I dont know what Win Phones you have tried but they are defiantly not crap.

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Re: OOh lets dangle the maps

"Meh, Google offer better maps than Apple and Nokia?"

I use it from time to time and I'm currently using it to get to a single destination. Not because I don't know the way after 4 attempts, but because I love the way it sends me on a different route each time, often enjoying the small back lanes instead of the direct empty A-roads. 4 times, same start, same destination, 4 different routes (none of them the best).

Don't even start me on the time when I made the fatal error of leaving the M25 because of a roadblock and it cheerfully sent me on a 40 mile diversion to the same junction I just got off!.

It's OK is how I'd rate it, nothing more, just OK.

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Love here maps

I after getting here drive on my Nokia lumia Windows phone i was very pleased to see it on the web. Love it. Love my windows phone and so do a lot of my friends.. So they have at leat 20 users in my circle of friends.

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Re: Love here maps

The whole HERE suite is the shizzle in Europe and especially in London.

I have downloaded France, Czech R and Spain so I can dream whilst some boring junior manager tells me about his/her team.

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Re: Love here maps

Having used Bing and Google Maps prior to Here maps, I do not understand why any one else in London would use anything other than Here. The internal Tube station floor plain layouts have saved my bladder/dignity on more than one drunken homeward bound journey

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The real reason

Unless it dramatically improved from when it first appeared in the App Store the reason for pulling it is that it was worse than Apple Maps. It was truly horrendous and slower than a very slow thing.

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Re: The real reason

I completely agree. They put a web view into an application and didn't even make sure it sourced "retina"-resolution content, so the display was blocky and the user interface slow and obtuse*, then washed their hands of the platform. Given Apple's mapping fumble, there was a fantastic opportunity to grow their user base but Nokia screwed it up.

Google's approach, of taking a few weeks more to come up with something fast and effective, was much more intelligent.

(* recall that embedded web views use the slower JavaScript engine, errr, officially because Apple doesn't want to allow any application to have any memory that is both writable and executable in its address space)

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Re: The real reason

It's been a while since I looked into it, but it used to be the casethat the embeded ios browser couldn't asynchronously render the page. This meant that the same page delivered via safari was much much faster than the samepage embedded inside an app.

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Apple is all about "control," right?

"When its own Maps software wasn't directing hapless drivers onto airport runways, it was rather rudely deleting whole towns."

Population control!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Apple is all about "control," right?

Google maps is far from perfect you know...

Hapless - think you meant HOPELESS drivers - anyone who can follow a sat nav onto a runway does not deserve to be driving. Pretty sure I remember when Google Maps showed a route by car as being across a sea and someone ended up with their car lodged on a cliff after following a (think it was) Garmin unit and let's face it Garmin have done sat-nav / GPS pretty much as long as anyone.

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PostIt Notes...

That was how I used to travel across Europe. I got from Southampton to Provence, Austria, Czech Republic and Bavaria with nothing more than a couple of postit notes in the window of my tank bag. The first ones listed the big towns I would have to pass, the last had directions from the entrance to the town/village I was riding to, to the hotel / guest house.

Once, due to severe flooding, I had to take a 60km detour over mountains and came into a little Czech town East of Plzen from a different direction than planned, but still managed to find my destination without getting lost.

On the other hand, I have friends who couldn't find their way to work, if their SatNav didn't tell them which roads to take... :-S

I've tried using the built-in nav systems (Ford, BMW, Mercedes and VW/Audi) and 3rd party ones (TomTom, Navigon, Apple and Google) and I never found them very helpful, they could generally find the town I wanted to get to (so could I, without their help!), but they were useless at the last 500M of the journey, which is generally the only bit most people probably need help with.

My old Ford system always wanted to send me over Frankfurt, when driving from Munich to Osnabrück. Ignoring it and driving straight up the A7 meant about 50KM less and a saving of at least 30 minutes, depending on how much traffic there was around Frankfurt... The navigation systems also tend to send you over Bad Oeynhausen, another 50KM detour, instead of going through Bielefeld. I think Ford believed in the Bielefeld conspiracy... The best (worst?) think was, you had to ignore the sign posts to your destination if you wanted to follow the SatNav!

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Re: PostIt Notes...

Re: Frankfurt

For the uninitiated, zooming around and through Frankfurt is byzantine and without local knowledge you will probably end up at the airport. A GPS is a big plus actually. I am not sure why your GPS sent you on an inappropriate route, though if you have an Audi, I can sympathise with you ;)

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Re: PostIt Notes...

"but they were useless at the last 500M"

That's weird, my experience is that I don't need the GPS to get to a town, but I certainly need it to get to the exact street.

Well, maybe not need it, I used to get there using maps back in olden times, but it is easier with the gps.

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Re: PostIt Notes...

Maybe I just have friendsnwho live in awkward places. Many live in streets that don't exist, according to SatNav systems (and in one case, the house was built in the 70s, so no excuse). Another lives in a street with over 100 houses and it is divided in 2 by a more major road crossing it, the SatNavs don't accept a house number for that street, but put you at the junction with the major road and leave you to work out your actual destination.

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Anonymous Coward

If they pulled it from the app store it was for their own commercial reasons for as it was not good enough - I'm sure neither Apple Maps or Google Maps will shed a tear.

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Unhappy

"old faithful Google Maps" on Android is becoming MUCH less useful

Google maps on IOS might get good reviews but on Android (including Google's own devices!) it is now fairly useless if you don't have an unbroken 3G/Wifi signal for the entire length of your journey since it no longer lets you store a section of maps offline. Once it loses a signal it also regularly forgets where you were going and has to be reset. Wonderful. Even street view is less useful than it used to be. The Apple Maps mob must be happy.

And don't even mention TomTom on Android. Look at these stats https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tomtom.ukireland&hl=en

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Re: "old faithful Google Maps" on Android is becoming MUCH less useful

Street view on iOS is less than perfect too. Dropping a pin on my current location brings up an image from a block away. :(

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "old faithful Google Maps" on Android is becoming MUCH less useful

You can still cache, they have just sort of made it harder... You say OK Maps into the search and it will cache your current view, or if you search for a location I think it pops up with abn option to cache...

Personally I would like to be able to cache larger areas, i.e. the whole of the UK or a province etc...

And I would like it more obvious... but hey its free...

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Re: "old faithful Google Maps" on Android is becoming MUCH less useful

Zoom to the area you want to cache then type "ok maps" in the search bar. It stores offline in exactly the same way as ever.

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Unhappy

Re: "old faithful Google Maps" on Android is becoming MUCH less useful

Not round here. If I zoom to display approx 10 miles of local towns, 'ok maps', and put the phone into airplane mode (simulating loss of signal) then zoom into a town all I get is a grey line where a road or building is but no names or numbers or colours and no voice. It used to download everything.

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Would love to know what it is about iOS 7 that Nokia found so lacking. All my apps work much more smoothly on it than under iOS 6, including both Apple and Google Maps. Though I sadly concede Here is a dog (and There is a cat...)

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Anonymous Coward

A Papal Bull

from Pope Cook of the Church of Apple.

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10% market share

Sounds good until you realise Nokia lose money on practically every sale (negative margin 3%, ASP in free-fall according to last results) but that 15% share that Apple have? It earns them hundreds of pounds from every device sale. Rather than continue to lose more money on increasing device sales Nokia would be financially better off with 0% market share (as long as they stopped making Windows Phone products, oh hang on, that's what they're doing isn't it?)

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Re: 10% market share

"that's what they're doing isn't it?"

No it's not.

They're stopping making phones full stop.

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Re: 10% market share

They're stopping making phones full stop.

And given the decline in feature phone sales as everyone migrates to cheap Android, that too is probably for the best. I imagine the downvotes are all from the Windows Phone fanbois - I reckon I've peaked at 3 unless they've got multiple accounts!

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Re: 10% market share

@zola

Well, the relentless pursuit of market share at the expense of current profit, in the hope of establishing a foothold in the market and recouping the losses at a later time is the strategy of countless failed companies - many of whom were egged on by the mentally defective analysts of Wall Street fame.

Like the or hate them, Apple have avoided, and continue to avoid, the death wish pursuit of market share.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: 10% market share

The 10% marketshare is also bogus. It's on one regional market. Global markershare for Windows Phone is still in the low single digits, and stagnant is an expanding market (so decreasing..)

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Anonymous Coward

Gone away on a Safari ?

I really do find it hard to believe maps work better on IOS Safari.

Time to polish your Chrome methinks.

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Re: Gone away on a Safari ?

Maps apps on iOS 7, not web apps — though Google's works passably well in Mobile mode, not Classic (desktop). Don't think Apple has released Maps for the desktop yet, so you can't access it through mobile Safari.

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Re: Gone away on a Safari ?

Maps is on Macs that have been Mavericksed.

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Re: Gone away on a Safari ?

Oh, I just upgraded today, and you are right.

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