Feeds

back to article Torvalds: Linux devs may 'cry into our lonely beers' at Christmas

Linus Torvalds has let release candidate five for version 3.13 of the Linux kernel into the wild for some festive footling. The Linux Lord let the new release candidate loose in this post that declares “Nothing really exciting stands out” which is “just how I want it.” “It's the 'how did that ever even pass cursory testing' …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.

Page:

Silver badge
Thumb Up

“Nothing really exciting stands out” which is “just how I want it”

Excellent!

Stable as she goes.

15
1
Anonymous Coward

Erm that is not what stable refers to...

0
4
Anonymous Coward

stable is where the jockeys go

1
1
Silver badge

I thought it was where the horses went.

Jockeys go home after a day's work, just like the rest of us, I assume.

2
0
Silver badge
Alien

Adjectives

It's not easy to find the correct adjectives to describe Linus without sounding rude.

4
7
Bronze badge

Re: Adjectives

As long as you don't speak Finnish, "perkeleen vittupää" doesn't sound terribly rude.

"The devil's c**t hole" on the other hand...

4
4
Silver badge

Re: Adjectives

Why so negative?

Enjoy life a beer lonely while pondering over the content of /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/em1 with nary a documentation in sight and google bringing up Oracle docs of all things!!

10
1

This post has been deleted by its author

This post has been deleted by its author

Bronze badge
Pint

Cry into our lonely beers...

My beer is never lonely, I always make sure it has company

29
0
Anonymous Coward

Eh?

"The post also outlines his plan for at least three more release candidates in the 3.13 development process,"

You can't have 4 release candidates, that makes no sense, You either believe it's ready to be released, or it's not, if you think it still needs to be tweaked 3 more times, then it's not ready for release, surely?

Maybe I'm just lost in the world of reality?

4
7
Bronze badge

Re: Eh?

You do know what an RC is in terms of testing?

It's effectively a stage past beta, where no new major code will be added (IE all the features you want are there), but existing code may be modified if further bugs are found.

If you fix a bug and that creates a regression elsewhere, then you fix that, and that's RC2. So on for RC3 etc.

You have as many RCs as you want till you're happy it's stable.

HTH.

20
1

Re: Eh?

I agree with the first commentator (upvoted). You shouldn't plan to have more than one RC, although you can have as many as you like.

According to wikipedia... "A release candidate (RC) is a beta version with potential to be a final product". If you are planning to have three of them, then numbers 1 & 2 can't be a potentially final product". I am not saying Wikipedia is gospel, but it's my understanding of the term and I would suggest the understanding of the first commentator. If nothing else, the name - "Release Candidate" - should give the game away.

9
10
Silver badge
Facepalm

Re: You shouldn't plan to have more than one RC, although you can have as many as you like.

Yes, that's snake oil merchants' strategy: "we'll have only one RC and we'll be perfect, honest". Meanwhile, responsible people in charge of a very complex project like the Linux kernel have a reasonnable roadmap based on history of bug finding and bugfix time. Remember that every bugfix has to be tested in the whole RC before it can be deemed safe; inevitably some bugfixes will create issues with other parts, and all this needs to be ironed out a couple times before it's stable enough to power ~80% of the world's computers. Planning a single RC would be an obvious lie, a bit like saying that your new car will cost you $30 in maintenance over it's entire life because that's the cost of the first oil change, and why would you plan for anything else, ever?

7
1
Silver badge

Re: Eh?

It's really just terminology though - the actually process is the important bit. Who cares what it's called!

3
0
Silver badge

Re: You shouldn't plan to have more than one

Yes you should. Back when HP was a real tech company I worked for a firm that had the good fortune to work with them on a product release. They had formulas for testing before release that predicted how many more bugs you would find based in a given testing period based on the number and severity of the bugs you found in the current iteration. So the first RC could go to release at some probability level, but you probably were going to go through more testing at the end of the cycle. If you didn't plan for those cycles you were a damn fool.

3
0
Bronze badge
Trollface

Re: Eh?

>You can't have 4 release candidates

Sum1 no reed gud. That was rc5 they just released, so he's forecasting up to rc8.

Will that make your head explode? I'll keep an eye on the news.

4
0
Anonymous Coward

And cry you might

Still sub-1% penetration.

Graphics are poorly supported.

Sound barely works.

Batteries don't last due to poor energy efficiency.

Forget Optimus (graphics AND energy efficiency; double clusterfuck)

Touch-screen support is a joke.

Touchpads almost work.

All this failure from the largest open source project. No wonder Windows has no competition.

9
38

Re: And cry you might

I think it time you moved on to a 2013 GNU/Linux distro - don't keep using the 1993 kernel...

26
6
Anonymous Coward

Re: And cry you might

I forgot some:

SecureBoot - totally screwed on Linux. In fact, Linux might brick your PC if you try SecureBoot.

Hibernate/Sleep - like playing Russian roulette with your data

Multi-screen support? Just about, but still a decade or so behind Windows.

Wi-Fi? Complete crapshoot on whether or not your card works.

Printing? Garbage.

The fanboys will crow about freedom, but what good is that when you just shackle yourself with a system that doesn't work with your hardware and doesn't run your software? May as well pick up your free concrete overshoes and go for a swim. Same feeling.

9
27
Anonymous Coward

Re: And cry you might

Optimus isn't 1993 era. SecureBoot isn't 1993 era.

These are all problems on Linux TODAY.

Yet they are all things that work on Windows TODAY.

5
21

Re: And cry you might

Please, factual posts like this look much better if you give at least some references so support your assertions. At the very least please quote your primary source, which I believe is www.pluckedoutmyass.com

20
3
Silver badge
Linux

Re: And cry you might

Welcome AC, now just you go and enjoy your lovely working copy of Windows with its _NSAKEY built in, nice to be pre-lubed, eh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAKEY

7
9
Silver badge

Re: And cry you might

I still find it amazing there are people who think Linux doesn't work, give a long list of problems, provide no facts, and have obviously not used it in some time.

Of course, and as with Windows, there are some problems. But I, in all my Linux installations, have rarely had any problems, and the number of problems I have had with Windows outweigh those I have had with Linux. I now use Linux of all homes machines (old and new), with no problems with graphics, sound, printers, networking etc. Compare that with Vista where I had persistent problems with wireless and eventually horrendous slow downs until the device expired.

Please please please, can all those people who continually bash Linux (and ALWAYS get the market penetration figures completely wrong), try it on a modern desktop or laptop, and just see how well it all works. Please. Then at least when you have a complaint (and you might) about it you will have some reason.

18
4
Silver badge

Re: James Hughes 1

"all those people who continually bash Linux"

I think you will find this is the same sad AC that always comes up with this sort of thing. Why AC you might ask? Presumably so it is not easy to see their posting history as that would reveal it. At least the knob-end that was EADON was up front about his anti-MS rants.

Next thing they will be telling you, again without actual facts, that Windows is much more secure, etc.

13
3
Anonymous Coward

Re: And cry you might

Are you for real? Just try using Linux; everything I have said is true. You can find reports all over the web as well.

Optimus? Does not work. Simply. Does. Not. Work. End of.

Sound? Barely functional. Will it use OSS, ALSA or PulseAudio? No one knows. Will all the connectors jacks to the soundcard work? No. Will surround sound work? Not fully (impossible to adjust individual speak delay). This, of course, assumes your soundcard even work. Linux struggles to with the de facto standard for consumer audio (Creative).

Printing? Garbage. To have a hope of getting the printer to work you have to download and compile the driver yourself, and even then you only get partial functionality. And that functionality is itself flakey.

Power efficiency? Utter joke. Windows can run on this laptop for up to 11 hours (extended battery). Linux will kill it in 6. Oh wait, I should open a terminal and run "powertop". Why the fuck should I? The OS should *KNOW* it's on battery and optimise, Windows does. So I will go back to 1970 and use the terminal. Oh look, PulseAudio is pulling down 5W *WHEN THERE IS NO SOUND PLAYING*. And so on and so on. It's a total farce. The fanboys all scream about how "light" and "efficient" Linux is. Yeah? Why is it about twice as power hungry as Windows then?

None of these things should be an issue. None. But they are.

4
15

Re: And cry you might

> SecureBoot - totally screwed on Linux

Yeah, let's blame Linux for Microsofts attempt at locking in users by making it impossible to install alternative OS's.

19
5
Silver badge

Re: And cry you might

Oh cram it up your arse, AC. Everything you've just stated is edge-case at best, or a complete and utter lie at worst.

12
3
Anonymous Coward

Re: And cry you might

Oh, you mean the big, nasty MS who state that you MUST be able to install keys etc on any Win 8 device?

Yeah, how totally evil of them.

Having Win RT locked-down is no different to your phone or tablet being locked; and yet the sun shines out Google's arse, doesn't it?

So not only are you factually incorrect, you're a hypocrite too.

5
11
Anonymous Coward

Re: And cry you might

Optimus? Edge case?

Sound? Edge case?

Printing? Edge case?

Battery life? Edge case?

I don't think you know what "edge case" means.

3
13
Silver badge

Re: And cry you might

@AC.

Yes, edges cases for those things that are actually problematical.

As I said I have no problems with my desktops running Linux - printing works fine, sound works fine. The other items don't bother me and are therefore edge cases to me.

As for your comment which boils down to 'the internet said it so it must be true'. Do you really believe that? Do you really truly believe that you can make a accurate assessment of Linux and its capabilities from analysing bug reports on the web? Did you do the same for Windows? I bet you get more problems reported for Windows than Linux (even when you take in to account the different market penetrations)

Now, I'm not denying there are problems with Linux, but the majority of users have no problems at all with it. Just like the majority of users of Windows have no problems with their choice of OS.

8
3
Anonymous Coward

Re: And cry you might

"As for your comment which boils down to 'the internet said it so it must be true'. Do you really believe that?"

Sigh. I said "You can find reports all over the web as well." *AS WELL*

What I recounted is personal experience. Linux just has too many problems to be considered anything other than a total joke. Which probably explains why (almost) no one uses it on the desktop and it now lags behind Windows in the server room.

About the only place Linux has any traction is in super-computing, but there you have a team of PhDs to fix the brokeness of it all. Not something the typical user has access to.

3
13

Re: And cry you might

> aving Win RT locked-down is no different to your phone or tablet being locked; and yet the sun shines out Google's arse, doesn't it? So not only are you factually incorrect, you're a hypocrite too.

The F are you on, fanboi?

Firstly, it's not just RT that's locked down. Secondly, where the hell did you get the impression that I applaud any attempts by Google to keep users from rooting or installing alternative OS's? Thirdly, where the hell did you get the idea that Google has made it impossible to root or install alternative OS's?

6
1
Anonymous Coward

Re: And cry you might

"Firstly, it's not just RT that's locked down."

Yes it is, MS *REQUIRE* the ability to unlock the bootloader as part of their Ts&Cs to OEMs for Win 8.

4
3
Silver badge

Re: And cry you might

Well Mr AC, your lack of knowledge of the subject is quite astounding. I really think you should stop digging that big hole for yourself.

Can I ask when you last had any personal experience? Or why you think that Windows is overtaking Linux in the server room (it isn't btw, and I won't give references, because you didn't)

The one think I will say, is that this 'joke' of an OS powers more devices than all the other OS's put together. Android devices rely on Linux, as do vast numbers of embedded devices (TV's, routers, DVD players to name a miniscule subset). The Raspberry Pi runs Linux, as do a host of other small devices. So, can you please explain your nonsensical 'joke' comment, which by it's very nature does seem to give some indication of what a uninformed individual you actually seem to be.

7
1
Anonymous Coward

Re: And cry you might

A paid Microsoft shill perhaps?

Microsoft recognizes that GNU/Linux is making headway into the PC/Laptop segment and that home users are keeping older hardware running by using GNU/Linux, as am I.

My desktop, at work, runs Windows 7 while my laptop at home runs Debian XFCE. There is little or nothing that Windows does that GNU/Linux can't and at some point Corporations will understand that there really is no need to continue paying the Windows tax.

Breaking the lock in is a one-time expense and pain and the sooner broken the better and potentially safer the data.

7
1
Silver badge

Re: And cry you might

SecureBoot - totally screwed on Linux. In fact, Linux might brick your PC if you try SecureBoot.

WOW, is that really the price of allowing Microsoft to design the boot process of a PC? That booting anything which isn't designed/written by Microsoft will actually "brick" the hardware?

Maybe they should get IBM involved in the next iteration, they managed a design which allowed Intel systems to boot any number of different operating systems.

2
1

Re: And cry you might

I wish. i just bought a Dell Inspiron for the mother-in-law's christmas (it's OK, she doesn't read ElReg). Apparently, just pressing "Do updates" after installing it managed to complete fuck up Windows 8 and it would not allow me to upgrade to 8.1 because the Windows Update and the Dell update had a bit of a fisticuffs resulting in me losing.

So, I scrubbed Windows 8 entirely, put on Fedora 20, it went on like a breeze. Out of the poster above's list the only problem was her cheap shitty lexmark printer that has no Linux driver (but there is also no Windows 8 driver either). Everything *just works*. Fedora recognises the Secureboot stuff and the KDE interface is usable and looks close enough to her old Windows XP system that the difference can be explained as an improvement. Windows 8 would have taken a LOT of support for her.

9
2
Anonymous Coward

Re: And cry you might

Give it to a noob and see how they get on.

If you're experienced in Linux then you'll be fine, otherwise you're always going to hit hardware and driver issues. You get them on Windows and that has full support of manufacturers.

If you run commodity hardware then you tend to have a better experience then higher end stuff.

0
8

Re: And cry you might

Weird

Optimus just works for me (using the nvidia drivers, which are a 1 -click install, and a lot quicker and easier to install than doing the same on windows 7

I currently run my main linux box with 3 screens connected to it. Took about all of 15 minutes to get it to work, at least 10 of which was spend trying to find a HDMI cable to connect screen #3

Whereas windows 7 for some reason insists on removing my second screen as soon as I switch off the monitor, happily moving all my apps to screen #1, then when I switch off screen #1 as well, poor old windows doesnt know what to do anymore, so when I poweron my monitors the next morning, my whole desktop is screwed.

So, in order to maintain my desktop overnight, I have to leave both my monitors on (and let them switch to powersave mode).

Sound has been nice, stable and rocking since oh I dont know, mid 1995 I think (which is when I bought the first soundcard for my PC).

Printers, are actually a lot easier under Linux then under windows, as all the models I've tried work out of the box on Linux , whereas on windows I needed to hunt down the right drivers (yes, Dell, Im talking about you)

As for laptop battery life. Im sure you have a point there. Thankfully Im noever to far away from a wallsocket, and I prefer to enjoy my plane trips reading a good book, in stead of trying to work on a heavy laptop

4
1
Anonymous Coward

Re: And cry you might

> and it now lags behind Windows in the server room

You'll find that there are hundreds of Windows servers doing not-a-lot in server rooms but I'm seeing a large scale adoption of Linux for business critical systems. My experience has mostly been banking, investment banking, market data and the F and the T LA's - but Linux is everywhere. Even big banks are running Linux on mainframe LPAR running core banking systems. I've seen Linux eat up all the AIX and Solaris platforms at a large financial and whilst there are quite a few Windows Servers in the data centre, they're not in active/active clusters and don't have particularly high recovery time objectives.

Even CIFS file servers are becoming Linux based devices because they are cheaper and have better resilience. Folks are also beginning to see the problems of running multi-vendor HIPS/Malware detection/patch management on corporate Windows servers - it requires a hell of a lot more power whilst the world of data centres is trying to make services more granular and virtualised.

Obviously, my experience is with larger data centres but I would say that the trend is an increasing Linux adoption and I would not say that Windows Server products (outside of Exchange and Sharepoint) are making headway.

3
1
Bronze badge
Facepalm

Re: And cry you might

Have you ever meat Eadon? You two would get along like a house on fire (in the literal sense that there would be great destruction).

Anyway, I'm not sure what obscure hardware you've been trying to install linux on, but if you try a bog standard Dell or Hp machine, and an up to date distro like Ubuntu you won't have any of those problems.

Even I know this, and I'm a Windows user, I run Windows at home, and support it at work.

7
0
Silver badge

Re: And cry you might

Optimus I haven't used, but a quick investigation reveals that it has issues with particular fairly uncommon hardware configurations.

The rest, I have. Printers work fine, sound works fine, battery life is the edge case due to a pile of "undocumented features" and "optimisations" laptop manufacturers build into their power management systems - without providing references or drivers for linux.

So edge case, lie, lie, edge case.

Merry christmas.

2
2
Silver badge

@phuzz Re: And cry you might

Perhaps he's been trying to install it on a dead badger?

4
1
Silver badge

Re: And cry you might

QUOTE "Give it to a noob and see how they get on.

If you're experienced in Linux then you'll be fine, otherwise you're always going to hit hardware and driver issues. You get them on Windows and that has full support of manufacturers.

If you run commodity hardware then you tend to have a better experience then higher end stuff."

Yup, gave it to my noob father. He's been using Linux for three years now. I occasionally have to field a tech call for him, but they have all been about 'how to I format a paragraph' type of thing rather than any issues with the OS.

As for the original install, which I did, I ran the Ubuntu install disk, and after about 1/2hr he had a working system - I did nothing 'technical'. That was on a brand new (at the time) Acer Revo.

Oh, are you sure Window has the full support from manufacturers? Have all these manufacturers drivers etc been updated to work on Win8? No? Bit crappy, this full support of which you speak.

High end stuff? I refer you to a post from someone abovewho works in the the high end banking sector. Where they are migrating to Linux.

8
1
Anonymous Coward

Re: SecureBoot

SecureBoot? Really?

OK give it up. Who do you really work for? Steve Ballmer or the NSA?

1
1
Silver badge

Re: Give it to a noob

I've never met a Windows noob who got on any better than Linux noob. Some of them are even surprised the foot petal belongs on the desktop and that the PC doesn't come with a built in cup holder like their car does.

2
1
Silver badge

Re: I don't think you know what "edge case" means.

Have you put together your own PC or something cos I fink you is doing something wrong.

Have you put a cpu in it?

3
1
Anonymous Coward

Re: And cry you might

"Optimus I haven't used"

So don't comment on it then. Oh wait, you are going to.

"a quick investigation reveals that it has issues with particular fairly uncommon hardware configurations."

Wrong. It manifestly doesn't work. At best you can engage the discrete GPU but it will yeild less performance than under Windows because Linux doesn't let commercial vendors make certain calls. As it seems you know nothing about this subject, here is a like to help you: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/nvidia-gpl-linux-driver,news-40687.html

But don't let facts get in the way of your fanboi-ism.

"Printers work fine"

Linux doesn't offer feature parity with Windows (e.g. no "walk-up scan" support). This is another fail.

"sound works fine"

Again, Linux doesn't offer feature parity (e.g. not all jacks work, sound control is abysmal). And that's BEFORE we get into the total mess that is OSS/ALSA/PulsAudio. Another fail.

"battery life is the edge case"

Not when PulseAudio is the biggest power draw according to "powertop" when no sound is playing. So either PulseAudio sucks, or "powertop" is broken. Either way, another Linux fail there.

"So edge case, lie, lie, edge case."

Nothing I have mentioned is an "edge case". It's all on modern consumer hardware using modern Linux. Also, nothing I have mentioned is a lie. It is a matter of fact. Maybe you have six PhDs and can make Linux work, but use normal people need a PC that *just works*.

And there is only once choice, the choice every major OEM has taken.

1
6
Anonymous Coward

Re: I don't think you know what "edge case" means.

"Have you put a cpu in it?"

And this, folks, is how the Linux community reacts. It's like a religious cult. If you point out that the sainted idol is less than perfect, they reduce to personal attacks because their distorted worldview is under threat.

1
5

Page:

This topic is closed for new posts.