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back to article Blighty could put a (WO)MAN on MARS by 2040, says sci minister

British science minister David Willetts reckons there'll be a human on Mars within 30 years - and Blighty could help to put them there. Speaking at the end of Prime Minister David Cameron's trip to China, Willetts said that the UK could help to broker a deal between international powers to get the cooperation necessary for a …

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Tragic

"Willetts said that the UK could help to broker a deal between international powers to get the cooperation necessary for a manned mission to the Red Planet"

Well, we wouldn't want to get our hands dirty with science, manufacturing or even design, would we?

I nominate Willetts (and all the rest of the human refuse at Westminster) to be flushed down a giant toilet. Charge the public money to operate the lever, with auctioning of the rights to flush our more crooked and/or less competent politicians. That should get enough to make a dent in the national debt.

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Unhappy

Re: Tragic

"I nominate Willetts (and all the rest of the human refuse at Westminster) to be flushed down a giant toilet. Charge the public money to operate the lever, with auctioning of the rights to flush our more crooked and/or less competent politicians. That should get enough to make a dent in the national debt."

All very patriotic. However that's not quite the speech you can (or should) give when you're a guest of the 1st (or 2nd) richest country on Earth.

You might like to keep in mind that Willets has also helped shake loose the funding for Reaction Engines Skylon project, which as a side project looked at the logistics of sending an expedition to Mars, called "project Troy "

Note RELmake no comments on whate nationality it's crew would come from.

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Alien

Re: Tragic

Nice! didn't know about their project Troy...

Although Skylon is clearly the way forward for LEO access now they have proven their pre-cooler technology!

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2040?

There'll be a thriving Indian community by then.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: 2040?

The Indian Space Program was outsourced by the UK !

The logic is so simple even MP's are begining to work it out.

The UK gives the Indian governement money to help with basic infrastructure projects.

The Indian's however spend money on space exploration rather than basic infrastructure, because the UK is paying for that.

Therefor the UK is paying for India's space program.

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Pint

Re: 2040?

I support this logic!

ANYTHING to keep the duo terribile of the Indian subcontinent to exchange nukes over the latest rape & holy place burndown events.

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"We are trusted partners of America"

Trusted by whom, exactly?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "We are trusted partners of America"

They might trust us, but I for sure don't trust them....

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making my next gen shuttle as a shared project would be better then sending some poeple off to mars in a tin can with no actual point or goal

6mw perpetual generator and magnetic pulse drives or xenon, you could go back and forth in a day or month with xenon

push 2 electro magnet poles together in a tube and releae the force, you could go lightspeed with alot of electric when done in space, pulses keep a constant when in a planets atmosphere etc

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countries spent more on the eurofighter, then all the space agencies would need to spend on fabricating more of their semi classified materials to make everything toughened graphite and titanium

make a magnetic pulse drive and you can leave earth with no need for air combustion, or fuel with some lame 1kw nuclear reactor you need to dump all the waste and heat from into some rubbish plasma drive

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DJO
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Voting

We have "Vote up" and "Vote down" buttons, what would be really useful is a "I'm sorry but I think you are completely insane" button.

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Re: Voting

you could easily put a 100kw generator on a new shuttle smaller then a 747 and abit bigger then NASA`s old shuttle, to power all your super computers etc, and have no need for all the extra weight and insulation of your 1kw nuclear reactor

pulse drives would take 10 years to master, sitting in a lab going through all the watts and weight to force factors and knowing the timing needed for each pulse to keep a constant thrust

you could drop off deep space hubbles, and do many things and create new sensors and controll systems and anti gravity, instead of just sending someone into space in a tin can to die

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Re: Voting

It's fantastic what we could do if we just ignored physics, reality and all that other nonsense. :)

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Re: Voting

push any 2 magnets together and let go, electro magnets can have power upto 1Mw

you have 3 ring magnets working together, towards the exit of the tube, and the main magnet at the other end, you turn off either of the magnets, and it pushing you forward, an object is an object, you just more powerful magnets

inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

its the same as a how maglev train gets pushed along its track, just different math for thruster tubes

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Re: Voting

this sounds like a good idea

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Re: Voting

damn right, you would only need 1 powerful pulse when in space, and then you could turn your engines off

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DJO
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Re: Voting

You do realize you cannot get more energy out of repelling magnets than the amount it takes to push them together in the first place?

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DJO
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Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

Amazing, every single word is wrong!

Space is not a total vacuum, there is friction! Lots if you go really fast.

It is impossible and undesirable for matter with mass to go at c.

Time stops at c, consider a photon, from it's perspective it is simultaenously created, at every point in it's journey and destroyed/absorbed/whatever. So if your hypothetical craft attained c it would instantly either crash into something or find itself at the death of the universe.

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Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

same old, same old,.

1 you have your magnetic pulse propulsion

2 you have 40-200 kw spare on your generator, because your a man and you can

3 electro magnets can go upto 1mw which is 1 million watts, the same as a wind farm turbine can generate 6mw, 6 million watts while the maximum is 10mw

4 when in space, you charge up your magnetric extra power, and blast your small light craft into light speed

if you actually wanted to go lightspeed, you would also need a few megawatts for the electro magnetic force field

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Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

Indeed, there is friction in space. There are also lots of wee rocks and 'stuff' in your way. At light, or near light speed, it would not be possible to detect obstacles in time to avoid them. You would run completely through/over the obstacle at the very same time you became aware of its existence.

Going really, really fast, in anything (space craft, cars, boats, etc...), isn't just about propulsion. It's as much about controlling your vehicle/craft and navigating at those speeds.

Even if we had propulsion that enabled light speed travel it wouldn't do us much good. We also have to build sensors and methods of communication that travel significantly faster than whatever your craft is capable of. We're a long way from anything like that.

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Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

and would just cause plasma, not slow you down a massive amount having to battle against gravity aswell

in todays world, a 100kw generator onboard, would give you enough force to get to mars in a day, from a standing orbit, and no need for sling shots or waiting for the weather

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Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

so if a shuttle is docked at the ISS, it could just undock, point its nose at mars, and have 1 powerful magnetic pulse, and deliver some chickens and supplies to mars the next day

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DJO
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Boffin

Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

If what you say was possible, which it isn't, given an average distance to Mars of 225million km, presuming you accelerate half way turn round then decelerate the rest of the way that would subject the ship to a constant force of 12.3G, enough over 24 hours to turn anything organic to mush, and no, suspending in water or a gel of some kind wouldn't help.

However from you fantasy you seem to think you'd give it a single blast to a velocity to cruise to Mars in a day and then I guess by magic you'd stop the ship somehow.

So to cover 225mkm in 24 hours you need to go at 9,375,000 kmph, if your magnoblast took 10 seconds then the acceleration would be 13,030G, enough to turn a steel ball into a pancake.

First learn some maths then try some physics, it might prevent you looking such an idiot.

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Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

you dont need to accelerate half the way

push any 2 magnets together you have laying around and let go of one of them, the force the magnet will be push away from the other comes out the thruster tubes and pushes your craft along

if you were in space, you would only need 1 powerful pulse, and it would probably get you to mars in a day

a 100kw generator and electro magnets could give more 1000s more gauss then any planet

maglev trains levitate by pushing 2 opposite poles together, and turn on and off the magnets 100,000 a second to push the train along

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DJO
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Facepalm

Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

Have you read a single word I've typed?

The G forces would destroy anything not made of solid metal and a hard metal at that.

HOW DO YOU STOP AT THE OTHER END?

Magnets do not provide free energy, to get energy out you have to put energy in first.

Your maths are way out, say a capsule of 20 tonnes, The energy required to impart a speed of nearly 10million mph would need your little generator to run for a long time.

"maglev trains levitate by pushing 2 opposite poles together"

ROFLMAO

Like poles you idiot, opposite poles attract.

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Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

there are no G forces in space, there is no gravity for there to be any G

if you were turning magnets on and off 100,000 times a second, then the previous field has already weakened from the previous push and being turned off

unless your going to spend a few years rewriting the rules of thrust and force factors and doing off the math, then nothing will break up

its a good job there are 2 types of maglev trains, bothing doing different things with its poles

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DJO
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Alien

Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

You really are mad aren't you?

If there were no G forces in space there would be no G forces on a planet, in fact planets couldn't form or stars or anything larger than a few atoms held together by electrostatic forces.

Even Star Trek had Inertial Dampeners to counteract the G forces when they manoeuvred, by current physics such a device is fantasy but it would be necessary unless you wanted to keep all manoeuvres to less than a few times 9.81ms/s

Please for the sake of your sanity read a basic physics primer paying special attention to Newtons laws and if you understand the maths, what Maxwell had say about magnetism.

It it plain from everything you write you know nothing about real physics, perhaps plenty of pretend fantasy physics from the lunatic fringe on the Internet, but I have not seen a single proposal of yours that would or could work.

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Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

perpetual generator works, along with magnetic pulse drive

you can make dynamos lighter and more efficient with a motor with the same spin ratio etc

they are the only power source that are better then a fusion reactor

power is green, and needs no other fuel

if nasa's best come up with a cruddy nuclear that can only do 1kw, theres no point dreaming of a magnetic pulse drive

G force are todo with what your body can cope with while gravity affects your blood flow and body, nothing todo with the divine cosmic bollox

maglev trains and frances trains only use a few kw, both can easily do more then 300kph

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Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

if space agencies make a new shuttle, they can go out of orbit as and when and do drone test and invent the rest of space travel

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FAIL

Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

"perpetual generator works"

No.

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DJO
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Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

Cyborg

Don't bother, it's plain that Zmodem is either a troll or insane, I countered every one of his suggestions and he has not answered any of the critique although getting someone who thinks perpetual motion works and that matter can be accelerated to c is a waste of time because it's obvious they either can't or don't want to understand basic physics.

Also he hates everybody on the ISS, his idea of using it as a base for what is basically a space cannon ignores "Every action causes an equal and opposite reaction" as his launch would send the ISS flying off at 100,000 mph and squish everything on board with a force equal to 130G (assuming the projectile is equal to 1% of the ISS mass).

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Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

neither, perpetual generators is all explained on 1 page as simple as it can be explained : here

there is no friction in space, you have magnetic fields from all stars and planets reaching out into the unknown, those fields will not cause you any concern, on your first drive craft

they will affect you if you want to go alot faster, and then you need a force field to turn your craft into a neutron, and then magnets would still have to be turned on and off 100,000 times a second, to stop plasma and the fields you a passing through are always changing gauss/forces

all thrust math and knowledge todo with combustion engines do not apply to magnetic forces, the sun feild in 1 gauss and hold togehter its billion kg mass or whatevers : here

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Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

if space agencies had a new shuttle, they could fly a drone towards the sun, and find out how much power a force field needs to be to stop solar storms, like earth field stop 90% of the radiation

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Facepalm

@Zmodem

Are you trolling?

You sound quite mad... No G-Force in space? it is the acceleration that causes the G-Force... it is not gravity that causes it... we just measure the force using G's...

You cannot get something from nothing even I cannot accept perpetual motion generators, or that there is no G-Force in space...

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Re: @Zmodem

because there is earths gravity working inside your cockpit, there is no gravity in space, you float around, and tests are still carried out to find out how no gravity affects your body while floating around

your not getting something from nothing with a mans perpectual generator, trully dont know how thick you all are

you have a battery, the original power from the battery, powers the motor upto its 20RPM which generates the electric, 2% of its power loops back to the motor, the rest of the generated electric goes to the main grid, then its fully perpetual

who gives a fucking shit about having to have a small bit of power to start it up, except for complete twats

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FAIL

Re: @Zmodem

" there is no gravity in space"

Wrong.

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DJO
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Re: @Zmodem

Really you are a complete moron, if there was "no gravity in space" what would keep the planets in orbit?

You "float around" because the gravity acting on the capsule and the gravity acting on the occupant are equal so relative to the capsule one is weightless, exactly the same as if you were in a free falling elevator or on a parabolic flight. The tests in orbit are "microgravity" that should give you a clue if you weren't completely clueless.

As for perpetual motion, OK I'm wrong, Newton was wrong, Einstein was wrong, Dirac was wrong, Maxwell was wrong, Hawkins is wrong, Higgs is wrong, in fact every scientist in the world is wrong but you are right, let us know when you collect your Nobel prize.

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Re: @Zmodem

just paypal me £100 and im good

none of those people were alive, when dynamo`s had billions spent on making them good with direct drive axles so the world could create wind farms and be a workable solution to power needs

just need 40mph bit of wind for 6MW, not a massive lake and the forces of a million gallons a second

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DJO
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Re: @Zmodem

"none of those people were alive"

Several of them are still alive now, the formula used to design alternators are all from Maxwell (they do not use dynamos which generate useless DC but alternators that produce useful AC). Also the windfarm type generators have complex gearboxes and are certainly not direct drive as the rpm from a wind turbine would not be adequate.

I would expect a 7 year old to know that in magnets, like poles repel and opposite poles attract, however you seem to be ignorant of this fundamental fact so if you get that wrong everything else you say is questionable.

In fact everything you have written is wrong. There are some fundamental laws in physics which in all probability are never going to be found to be false, one of them is the law of conservation of energy which precludes perpetual motion, if even the US patent office reject patents on perpetual motion and they will patent almost anything then it's a fair bet it is impossible but you toddle off to a shed and prove us all wrong.

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Re: @Zmodem

wind farm turbines have gear boxes for health and safety and stop : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqEccgR0q-o : failures happening and they are all direct drive : http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=direct+drive+wind+turbine : or read the specifications on any power company website which owns a wind farm

wind turbine have a minimum generating RPM which is needed to begin to generate power, they have a maximum RPM which is normal 20, any faster, no power will be generated

wind turbines generate, AC/DC watts or volts, anything you need, its all about money

using a electric motor instead of wind, you have a constant green power source

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FAIL

@Zmodem

Look over there ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->

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The crank, it turns!

TESLA TACHYON GENERATORS NAOW!

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Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

"HOW DO YOU STOP ON THE OTHER END?"

That ones simple. Just ask the guys building electric cars: regenerative braking. You slow down AND accumulate energy all at the same time.

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Re: @Zmodem

the whole world fails with all you caring about life and having jobs etc and never writing new chaptors, only knowing what someone else has written

you can probaly make a cruddy generator with

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAND-NEW-300W-12V-WIND-TURBINE-GENERATOR-WITH-6-BLADES-LIGHT-AND-POWERFUL-/171021484943?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-120RP-High-Torque-Geared-Box-Mini-DC-Electric-Motor-/290593849957?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item43a8be4265

although a cruddy charger is`nt a £2000 modern 20rpm turbine

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FAIL

Re: @Zmodem

Get on and build it then.

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Re: @Zmodem

i dont need to, all the lurkers can, in 30 mins lunch break who read all about paper planes being sent into space

small turbines are just your scale model for the real thing, and the amount of power thats needed to actually start a generator up is so small, its not worth caring about

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Stop

Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

"HOW DO YOU STOP ON THE OTHER END?"

Lithobraking?

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Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

by being a scientist, and make it possible to turn your wing thrusters around, and use 3x the power pulses then you would when in earths atmosphere

just like this http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_exopol/exopolZZZZZZP_02.jpg

not this http://atomictoasters.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/panam_orion.jpg

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Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

this could work either side of the pond http://hassaanrabbani.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/x-wing-bomber.jpg?w=538

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FAIL

Re: @Zmodem

"i dont need to"

Then I don't care what you have to say about any of this because so far it's nonsense.

Put up or shut up.

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