3D printing: 'Third industrial revolution' or a load of old cobblers?

Re: Yes, a "solution looking for a problem"

Printers. High-speed optical networking. Making those holographic anti-counterfeiting things on bank cards.

Re: Yes, a "solution looking for a problem"

> where are all these lasers

LASERs will (are?) like electric motors. Not something you own per se, but an "invisible" component inside something else.

However, just like electric motors didn't make an "industrial revolution", neither will LASERs or 3D printers. However, given time, they might be incorporated into things or machines that do gain widespread acceptance.

Re: Yes, a "solution looking for a problem"

"Outside of disk drives, where are all these lasers"

is that yoda speak for 'laser are outside disk drives' ?

If so I agree - there are no lasers in disk drives.

Re: Yes, a "solution looking for a problem"

Neither do sharks with lasers of the "frikkin" variety.

Don't be ridiculous. Of course sharks with frikkin lasers count. But then so do the BluRay player and two consoles I own. Oh, and my 'death ray' that I use to amuse my kids*. More practical applications are range finders for surveyors, etching in things, eye surgery, and blasting missiles out of the sky.

*Apparently the ability to pop a balloon and light a match at a distance qualifies it as a death ray, though I'm not quite sure why. My kids think it's the coolest thing since sliced cheese though. I'm sure that in a pinch I could use it to start a camp fire, but I think it'd be quicker to use one of the friction methods of fire building I know.

Re: Yes, a "solution looking for a problem"

The fiber optic cable coming to my home is laser driven. As it's two way, there is a laser driving this very traffic to you.

Twice, as I also ran fiber between switches in my house.

My drives, of course. I have measurement devices that use lasers to indicate alignment.

I have a saw guide that is laser.

I have a laser sight for my pistol sitting in the drawer (my dot scope is better than that laser, so it was retired).

I have laser pointers for meetings.

That is for starters.

Re: Yes, a "solution looking for a problem"

Outside of disk drives, where are all these lasers?"

Off the top of my head, CD player, BluRay player, spirit level, ultrasonic "tape" measure (for aiming), chop saw, handheld circular saw and a Xmas "disco" light display that puts red and green laser "stars" all over the room ;-)

Re: Yes, a "solution looking for a problem"

@FartingHippo

Three of those lasers that no one owns are in

- a laser distance meter

- a crossline laser used for marking vertical and horizontal lines

- a spirit level with laser marker.

which I regularly use, putting up a couple of walls and related rebuilding activities.

Re: Yes, a "solution looking for a problem"

oshpark.com - it's far, far from expensive, I think the cheapest I've done is about £2. There's a few weeks turnaround to the UK though.

I had a look at this printer but the smallest trace it can do is something like 0.5mm which isn't going to cut it for anything at a scale used by any reasonably interesting components (spent a lovely 4 hours with a solder paste syringe, needle and magnifying glass last night assembling a large board with lots of 0.65mm pitch components - I'm getting too old for this shit).

Re: Yes, a "solution looking for a problem"

> Circuit board prototyping may be a killer app for 3d printing.

I agree with this.

Etching is such a pain and requires hazardous chemicals.

Plain board/etch resist/etching/rinsing/cleaning. A right pain in the arse.

Unless you do a lot of it though I can't see it being worthwhile to have a machine yourself.

Could make it cheap to get a small shop to do it for you though.

And better for the environment. If the copper/silver is applied rather than being removed, would be a lot more economical since copper and silver are pretty dear all told.

Re: Yes, a "solution looking for a problem"

The alternative to etching or a 3d printer for DIY PCB making might be some form of milling machine - but that's not exactly home-tech either - and you could only make doublesided boards at best.

(I'd have killed to be able to make 4 (or more) layer boards when prototyping digital control circuits for use in RF systems n the 1980s)

Re: Yes, a "solution looking for a problem"

"If it could do two-sided boards, I'd buy one right now."

Based on the description of printing onto a suitable substrate, it's not 3D printing anyway, it's more like inkjet printing with conductive ink so flipping over the substrate with careful alignment means double sided PCBs are no more difficult than current methods of "at home" manufacture. No through hole plating so you still have to make sure to solder both sides of the relevant component holes and/or use through hole pins.

Re: Yes, a "solution looking for a problem"

" our current 3d printers are the equivalent of Orville and Wilbur's first flight at Kitty Hawk"

No that would be the 3D printers we had in the mid 1980's.

Re: Yes, a "solution looking for a problem"

And they've been at the Kitty Hawk stage for a while. The improvements since the mid-1990s are modest in most respects except cost, which (for some units) have dropped by 2 orders of magnitude.

However, the proliferation and popularization of 3D printers compared to the 1990s suggests (to me) that the technology is on the verge of something big. Maybe a popped market bubble, maybe a Model T, but something big.

I think what 3D printers need is a combination of 3D printing technologies to takeoff. Right now, the inexpensive units most people play with are just depositing plastic. When you get systems that can print multiple materials, like the high-end industrial systems depositing steel, titanium, and aluminum, and match that to plastic printers. Not so everyone can build killbots (which would be cool), but at that point you can start building a lot of everyday household items. Print a new plumbing pipe, print a new shower head, print a new screw - that'd be handy. And if it can help a household like that, it could be very useful in the hands of skilled machinist.

Re: Right now I can see only specialist application

Sandman, I totally agree. I reckon the 3d printer will be a common tool in the garage when folk realize that it can be used to make those annoying, easily breakable/ losable plastic bits that *every* modern product seems to have that no-one sells the replacements for.

Re: Right now I can see only specialist application

I'm thinking of the attachments for hoover hoses.

Re: Right now I can see only specialist application

Well not too long ago, you went to a "copyshop" , where as a student you could type out your presentations on a "computer" using a "word processor" , which then allowed you to "print" said documents, and then whip them through a photocopier for the required number of copies.

Was sort of expensive, but well worth it for the more important stuff, like the things that determined your course grades, and in the end cheaper than plodding along on a typewriter, having to go through a revision or two, or three, or....

The technology does allow for relatively easy small-run/one-off manufacturing, and there certainly is a market for "printing shops" if you can get the starting capital ( a whole different proposition nowadays...) It's a nifty tool for quite a lot of purposes, and it certainly has potential. A lot will depend on the availability (and price) of suitable polymers that have the desired characteristics for certain applications, and that's where there's a lot left to develop.

But 10 years from now? Who knows.

And Big_D.. you do realise that the actual cost of an injection mould is rather steep? Along with the machine you need to make it work.. Mass production is all good and nice, but the process of injection moulding is *only* economically feasible because it is used for mass-production. It's wholly unsuited for the applications, production numbers, and versatility expected from 3D printing...

Re: Right now I can see only specialist application

We had some people in the office recently that were making injection mould for small parts by 3D printing.