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back to article How d'ya make a JP Morgan banker cry? Ask him questions on Twitter

Twitter trolls have sent a grosse fromage from JP Morgan scuttling back to his ivory tower after hijacking a public question and answer session. The world was asked to send questions to Jimmy Lee, vice chairman of the bank, using the hashtag #AskJPM. But a mob of trolls quickly commandeered the session, bombarding Lee with …

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PR morons

These companies' PR people must live in a dingy, unconnected cellar (lit with scented candles, natch). Is this is a surprise to anyone?

The Ryanair / O'Leary Twitter Q&A is perhaps the only time I've seen one of these things work in the firm's favour. Presumably because Ryanair troll their customers 24/7 anyway.

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Trollface

Re: PR morons

But Twitter is hip! HIP I TELL YOU!

Also yes, never try to out troll a professional troll and I'm willing to put Ryanair in that category.

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Re: PR morons

The stuff O'Leary spews, while pretty bad, is honest and straightforward, plus hilarious. Being straight up gives people credibility. You know he's going to be a dick from the moment his lips start to move.

But the banking community is represented by the worst sort of Human. The kind that pretends to be one thing in order to gain your trust then sets about mangling that trust in one of the few extant examples of the laws of physics being broken. If a banker isn't talking it is because, through force of will, he's gathering every free bullshit particle from the surrounding four block area and concentrating them into a force of unimaginable duplicity and deceit. The physics part is that there is no equal and opposite reaction.

If I had my druthers I would much rather deal with the O'Leary type of person. At least you know where things stand. Better the enemy known and all that.

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Re: PR morons

Personally I think it's worse than that even, in that bankers actually believe their own propaganda. I guess this still makes them high functioning psychopaths and the end result is the same.

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#AskJPM

Are you guys really so clueless to the outside world that you didn't see something like this coming?

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Re: #AskJPM

Rhetorical question? or Troll ! :D

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Re: #AskJPM

Rhetorical question? or Troll !

And so, the rhetorical troll was invented. Don't you just love El Reg? :)

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Pint

Re: Rhetorical Troll

Quick! El Reg must copyright that term, and patent the methodology before MS/Apple/Google do!

Patent Application: A method for asking a question which needs no answer due to its obvious nature, in a snarky, condescending, and sarcastic manner.

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Re: Rhetorical Troll

#Rhetrollical

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Re: Rhetorical Troll

Hi, My name is Tim and I'm calling from a MASSIVE litigation firm called PRENDA..

we hear that you potentially have been using "Rhetrollical' business practices

consider this polite little note as notice to cease and send us an S.A.E with blank cheque made out to "for teh Lulz"

otherwise, we will pursue this matter throught the judicial system until the end of time*

We appreciate you moneys in this matter

Love and kisses,

Tim

xxx

*time being finite, that means till next tuesday at 4.37 pm ...

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Anonymous Coward

Hey El Reg, here's a better source of some of those tasty Twitted comments

The #Snarkpocalypse!

https://twitter.com/ReformedBroker

I think my favorite is:

"I have Mortgage Fraud, Market Manipulation, Credit Card Abuse, Libor Rigging and Predatory Lending

AM I DIVERSIFIED? #AskJPM"

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Re: Hey El Reg, here's a better source of some of those tasty Twitted comments

Brilliant! A good troll doesn't need to swear.

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Anonymous Coward

The 'Credit-Monitoring' Service scam...

Great Tweet. But they forgot to include this Pièce de résistance: the 'Credit-Monitoring' Service scam...

How all the banks got away with charging for something that didn't even exist for almost a decade blows my mind! I'm an ex-derivatives HFT guy, and even I can't understand why banking pirates aren't in jail. It raises such simple questions as: why is all banking private? Why is there no public banking system where leverage isn't regulated as its outright banned, with jail terms waiting for those who disobey! Its such a joke folks! This is from the BBC, scroll down to the second half, its much better thievery!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24159801

"JP Morgan was fined $309m by the newly-created US Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) for illegal credit card practices... JP Morgan Chase customers were charged monthly fees ranging from $7.99 to $11.99 for "identity theft protection" and "fraud monitoring" services which were never actually performed.Some customers exceeded their account limits due to these fees, and thus were fined double"

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Re: The 'Credit-Monitoring' Service scam...

" I can't understand why banking pirates aren't in jail"

There are two kinds of lawyers, those who know the law and those who know the judge. I would guess banks lawyers belong to the second category.

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Re: The 'Credit-Monitoring' Service scam...

"why is all banking private? Why is there no public banking [...]?"

Up until this crisis we had in Spain the 'cajas de ahorro' you can translate that to something like 'saving banks', they were owned by foundations that were controlled by local and state politicians and unions, so they behaved as if they were public banks.

They were so badly mismanaged that they required a 40,000 million bailout which almost made Spain ask for a bailout. In the meantime private banks have survived on their own, Banco Santander even used the crisis as a chance to get to own 10% of the UK banking system.

Yes, I know what you are thinking, "that happened in Spain, a third. or fourth, world country, that would never happen here, only private banks go broke in my country, no matter how many trouble German landkassen are going through".

Keep dreaming.

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Re: The 'Credit-Monitoring' Service scam...

Here is another shocking media piece, AC [who posted Thursday 14th November 2013 19:53 GMT ] ....and I refer to the video showing CNBC hosts being complicit in trying to deflect the slings and arrows of outrageous evidence and commentary on JPMorgan crimes and misdemeanours, with the highlighting of what are crooks in real life apparently able to escape jail time by paying other folks money in the thousands of millions of QE dollars to dodgy systems which bypass law and order and justice requirements ...... http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2013/10/02/video-of-the-day-interview-with-matt-taibbi-about-jp-morgan-and-the-cnbc-presstitutes/

Oh .... and are, in the eyes and hearts and minds of the true law and social order and sweet justice, the law and order and justice systems accessories and wilfully obliging partners in such as are crimes against humanity?

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Re: Hey El Reg, here's a better source of some of those tasty Twitted comments

And of course the inevitable follow-up.... #Snarknado

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The 'Credit-Monitoring' Service scam...

Private Banking Model:

So the public or sort-of public banking system in Spain failed. What do you suggest then, we keep the current private system? Where banksters on millions can afford the best lawyersters to get them off with paltry fines and no admission of wrongdoing?... Where executive banksters can dip into bank capital / shareholder funds to defend against lawsuits concerning their wrongdoing?... For f*ck sake, when will it all end! Just how many cases are JPM defending against right now?

The Boring Bank Model:

Clearly Public Banking isn't foolproof ! But banking 'for the public' should at least be boring, whether its public or private based.... i.e. simple deposits, simple loans, low gearing! ! Long-term pay incentives.. Generous clawback-able pensions for the long-term, but modest pay in the short-term. With strict Iceland-enforced jail terms for public / private banksters who rig the game.

What if Whistle-Blowing was the best paid Job in town:

We've learned again and again that regulators are toothless, incompetent and complicit. Same goes for the big 4 audit firms. Where is the next Bernie Madeoff right now? What we need is a highly lucrative whistle-blowing system, 'to out' wrongdoers. Forget the pillars of auditing and regulation. Make whistle-blowing the only game in town to lessen the economic crimes of Wall Street!

@fandom:

...If you have any better ideas, then please share .... But simply critiquing a failed public system, is no excuse for keeping the current one!

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Re: The 'Credit-Monitoring' Service scam...

My better ideas are actually very simple:

You have regulation that has been proven to be needed crisis after crisis.

For example, a limit in leverage, a limit that was lifted for the five biggest investment banks in the USA, a crisis came and, surprisingly, only one them, Morgan Stanley, survives as an independent company.

The surprising part, by the way, is that one survived.

Another example of good regulation that no longer exists is a separation of investment and commercial banks, so that the investment branch can't get to use customers money to speculative. Eventually they will lose it.

Another example are the anti cyclical provisions Spanish banks need to keep, not that it is a silver bullet, the saving banks kept them too, but they help.

Another example is that if bank goes bust, it goes into receivership, no big to fail nonsense is allowed.

People who know more about banks than I do are likely to be able to continue, things like independent appraisals of assets, limits on how much collateral you need and the like are likely to be mentioned.

So, you have this regulations, and this is important, you have an agency with real teeth that makes banks comply with them.

And definitely, if some banks break the law, no matter how many billions they are willing to pay to settle, you don't, you convict everyone involved, you also take the billions, of course, but as part of the conviction, not a settlement.

If you do little things like this, you can get a working private bank system, if you don't a public one won't help.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The 'Credit-Monitoring' Service scam...

......."You have regulation that has been proven..."

Proven regulation? Hah! Whose dreaming now! We tried all that before, it didn't work! Why? Enforcement of the rules is subjective, and drilling into derivatives books a murky tricky process full of assumption making.

......."a limit in leverage"

Limits on Leverage? Great! But gauging leverage is an elusive imperfect process often based on assumptions that few understand. Plus, there are a myriad of ways to exercise leverage. You should study how JPM used its 'safe' hedging book to mask the Whale's risky trades... Regulators are the poorer brothers of banks, not smart enough to see hidden systemic risks that may appear as improbable events at the time of audit. You should read about the Nobel economics geniuses at LTCM who crashed and burned after Russia defaulted! Moreover, you should study Nassim Taleb's Black Swan and Anti-Fragility works! You won't feel the same again!

......."separation of investment and commercial banks"

Information is still shared, like insider-trading. Moreover, an investment bank can enter into a risky swap with a hedge fund. They in-turn can lay off that risk back to the parent bank in the form of a new swap. Sometimes it takes a little maneuvering, such as putting the trade through a bunch of subsidiaries in tax havens. But more often, its complicity. We rarely hear about the subtle crimes of the rating agencies here! They can make pure junk look like Triple-A gold to a regulator. Either way the regulator wont catch all of these. And if those swaps hit a black swan type event, expect the parent bank to be in real peril.

......."The surprising part, by the way, is that one survived"

No, the surprising part is how numerous are the games to be played, too numerous to list here, but read the books above. My pet favourite is giving loans to insiders or Asian or Middle-East sovereign wealth funds etc, who then buy shares in the bank thus propping them up. Now the bank effectively owns its own shares, and can masterfully manipulate the price of them. This is an old-school con! We'll see if anyone goes to jail for this in Ireland in 2014....

......."no big to fail nonsense is allowed"

Laughable! The banks are already bigger and more deadly than ever before and there are no workable plans to break them up!

......."you have an agency with real teeth that makes banks comply with them"

Sorry but you're so naive! You know noting about lobbying, or how much Wall Street spends at election time! The only teeth here belong to the banksters themselves as they sink their fangs into Capital Hill! I hate to over-quote the Matrix but "You live in a dream world Neo'...You know nothing dude, go get a job as a regulator!

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Re: The 'Credit-Monitoring' Service scam...

Why did you cut my quote "proven to be needed"? You couldn't twist what I said without doing it?

Since we are not going to agree, I am not going to answer all your points, people here must be bored enough with us already, so I will go directly to the end where you seem to believe that what I said would be easy to achieve, I do not, I know it would be extremely hard and I do know about lobbying, that's how the investment banks got the limit on leverage lifted, that it doomed them is not much of a consolation.

So, how would you go around creating a public bank system? Who do you trust with all that monkey?

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Anonymous Coward

Not convinced

C'mon, we all know lizards can't cry.

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Re: Not convinced

Indeed they can't. But the Lizards seldom appear in public. They send their pet Humans into public so as not to be caught out.

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Devil

Re: Not convinced

Lizard? You mean tapeworm.

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Re: Not convinced

Lizards can't cry, but I hear crocodiles cry often.

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What were they thinking ?

Sorry, answered my own question. Carry on.

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Happy

What? Were they thinking ?

How about that?

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All things considered,

...I think they got off rather lightly. Name slinging is fun for a while, but in this case I think sticks & stones, up close & personal, would be much more satisfying.

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That's weird.

When I took issue with the trolling newsies on here I got censored.

How does that work?

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Re: That's weird.

It's a sub-category of self-preservation, filed under ego. The big read stamps reads "Don't bite the hand that feeds you articles."

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Re: That's weird.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you aren't going to get "censored" for bringing up a concern with a writer, but you will get your wrists slapped if you can't do so in a civil manner. Under what social ruleset should anyone be expected to suffer unbuffered, unhinged or irrational ad hominems in their own digital home?

Maybe I'm jaded, but it seems to me that most of those doing the whinging are aught be entitled douchenozzles gnashing their teeth that someone dares to speak ill of the the brand to which they've associated their sense of self worth.

Boo hoo. I weep. Really, I do...

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Still got what they wanted

Even bad attention is attention.

If you *really* wanted to see him cry, Imagine the effect of him throwing the floor open for questions... and nothing, not a single response.

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What did they expect?

Donations for their pension funds?

Cunts.

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I guess they could ahve asked

Given the Government states we are now clearly over the recession,what day next week the banks are putting up the interest rates.

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They truly have no clue

The have no clue. None.

They are just 2 paychecks away from mobs and pitchforks. **

(** refers to most people in the US being only 2 paychecks away from homeless)

Marie Antoinette didn't get it either.

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LOL

Well if you engage with the public, be prepared for the public to tell you what they think!

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Trollface

They don't like Twitter...

they have no control over the hashtags...

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That poster is horrific!

Not real though surely?

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Anonymous Coward

How d'ya make a JP Morgan banker cry?

Tell them that they won't be getting a bonus this year.

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Anonymous Coward

The punchline to the joke

"What is the best way to rob a bank?" was meant to be funny not an instruction.

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That wasn't trolling.

That was Great Justice!

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Social media is not always your friend.

I am shocked that the execs, PR and social media bods at JPM could be staggeringly Naive. I can't help thinking this serve as a lesson for other corporations thinking of doing the same.

Just spotted this.

https://twitter.com/AnswerJPM

Fantastic

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Social media is not always your friend.

"This guy has Upper Management written all over him!"... from Office space????

That JPM genius should go and see 'The Bobs': "So what would ya say ya do here....?"

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"Miss another payment, and we take the blanket."

LOL.

What's the matter? Did the nasty man paint you as grasping b**tards who would run whole economies into the ground, as long as your bonuses got increased or the bank assets did not have to be auctioned off (thereby showing the world how stupid you were to fall for buying those worthless CDO's )?

There's a reason for that.

Because you are.

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Re: "Miss another payment, and we take the blanket."

Point of order: if they make millions upon millions and then get bonuses even during catastrophe they are not remotely stupid.

We are. For letting these assholes be in charge. But them? They're fucking brilliant.

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Forget the article, that is a truly horrendous picture and makes me ashamed of my own species.

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"They're fucking brilliant."

What - for being morally bankrupt? Better they were the other sort.

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Intelligence and morality have nothing to do with one another. Each can exist entirely independently of the other.

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