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back to article APPLE EATS ITSELF: iPad Mini set to wolf Air's market share

Shipments of Apple's latest bijoux fondleslab are expected to double next year as sales of other models dwindle. According to a report from KGI analyst Ming-Chi Kuo circulating on Apple blogs, shipments of the iPad Mini Retina will shoot up by 101 per cent in the first quarter of 2014 at the expense of the iPad Air. Meanwhile, …

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During the meanwhile ...

... record company sponsored boy bands & girl bands will continue to siphon money from teenagers and their parents.

No matter how you look at it, graft is graft.

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There's cheap and then there's cheap

iPad mini air - £369

Tesco Hudl -£120

cheapness is in the pay packet of the beholder

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Anonymous Coward

Re: There's cheap and then there's cheap

What is an iPad Mini Air - you mean iPad Mini Retina perhaps?

The iPad Mini (the older model) is £249 and the iPad Mini Retina is £319 (16Gb) so not sure where you got £369 from?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: There's cheap and then there's cheap

>iPad Mini Retina is £319 (16Gb) so not sure where you got £369 from?

I guess he's including the cover - though most Apple customers actually pay £398 to include Apple Care. ...another way of looking at it is the hudl is only £40 more than most UK customers pay Apple for the statutory warranty they already have.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: There's cheap and then there's cheap

You can hardly compare Applecare to the statutory warranty. Applecare is in addition to your statutory rights (of course) and means they provide more support (for example including their software) and gives enhanced support - i.e. instant swap out and none of this return to manufacturer and it's away for 3+ weeks.

Also Apple are also pretty decent out of warranty - Apple replaced a 3 year old iPhone 4 for around £120.

Also Applecare Plus (with new iPhones and iPads) now covers 2 incidents of accidental damage over 2 years - you smash up your iPhone and pay about £50 excess and get a new one.

Did your statutory rights not cover accidental damage? No - shame...

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Re: There's cheap and then there's cheap

No your right - My googling went awry.

Still a lot more than £120 though so I think my original point still stands

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Re: There's cheap and then there's cheap

"i.e. instant swap out and none of this return to manufacturer and it's away for 3+ weeks."

So the three month old vacuum cleaner I bought on the high street that I returned as faulty didn't get a swap for a new one in store? The OCZ SSD that failed after 2 and a half years didn't get replaced with a newer model within one working day (allowing 3 days for transport). However the iPod mini with unrecoverable unhappy face that in store I could not avoid the sales pitch for some support deal, binned.

You sir make me think anyone who buys Apple is a retard that is so taken in by marketing that you cannot see the wood for the trees. It's like that film 'The Trueman Show' where his wife spouts off advertising when I read some 'fanboi' comments on here.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: There's cheap and then there's cheap

Not really - comparing a Hudl to a iPad Mini Retina is not really the same is it? It's like comparing a Suzuki Alto to a BMW 3 series.

A nearer comparison would be the Hudl to the (now) older iPad Mini - so you could argue it's half the price - ish - but it's still hardly the same is it. Build quality and materials? Service and support or do you reckon Tesco will support their tablet and Android the same as Apple support theirs and iOS?

Then there is resale value - in 2-3 years the Hudl will be worth effectively nothing - an iPad Mini probably still half it's purchase cost - so actual cost of ownership is basically the same.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: There's cheap and then there's cheap

Some retailers are better than others. If the vacuum was from John Lewis they probably would - if you got it from Acme-Acyou Electricals Here Today Gone Tomorrow (2013) Limited probably not.

Try that with your Samsung phone. Mine went faulty after about 3 months - Samsung were insistent the only option was to return it to them and turn-around was currently 3 weeks. 3 weeks!! And was told it would most likely be a refurb - i.e. not even my phone (fixed) back.

So you reckon if you got a fault with your Galaxy III after 6-12 months you could just walk into the retailer and they would cheerfully give you a new one. Good luck with that one.

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Re: There's cheap and then there's cheap

@dougal83 - "It's like that film 'The Trueman Show' where his wife spouts off advertising when I read some 'fanboi' comments on here."

There's a lot of that, not just on this website. I'm convinced that half the fanboi comments are just guys that are getting paid $7 per hour by Apple to comment on tech websites using canned company lines. A lot of their responses make no sense, and I get the feeling I am trying to have a discussion with an ad-bot.

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Re: There's cheap and then there's cheap

@AC 12:49 - "Try that with your Samsung phone. Mine went faulty after about 3 months - Samsung were insistent the only option was to return it to them and turn-around was currently 3 weeks."

You bought it from the wrong store. BestBuy will hand you a replacement in-store if they have it most times, or give you a store credit for a different one. The good thing is that you don't even have to stay with Samsung (or Apple) - you can put the money toward any new model.

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Re: There's cheap and then there's cheap

"you could just walk into the retailer and they would cheerfully give you a new one."

Except with Apple you have to book 2 weeks in advance and drive 40 minutes out of your way in order to walk in and they will give you a refurbished one. You can't just walk in to an Apple store and get served (at least in OZ)

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Re: There's cheap and then there's cheap

"Also Applecare Plus (with new iPhones and iPads) now covers 2 incidents of accidental damage over 2 years - you smash up your iPhone and pay about £50 excess and get a new one.

Did your statutory rights not cover accidental damage? No - shame..."

No but home contents insurance does - so congratulations on paying Apple twice for coverage you already have *facepalm*

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The Hudl will inherit the Earth.....

Don't get me wrong; you can drag my iPad Mini from my cold, dead hands, but I've had a play with a Hudl. It's cheap but it's far from nasty. I reckon it will be introducing a lot of young uns to the world of tablet computing, this Christmas.

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Re: There's cheap and then there's cheap

"You can hardly compare Applecare to the statutory warranty. Applecare is in addition to your statutory rights (of course) and means they provide more support (for example including their software) and gives enhanced support - i.e. instant swap out and none of this return to manufacturer and it's away for 3+ weeks."

"Enhanced support"? And where in the T&Cs does it state that AppleCare customers are entitled to device swap out?

More support? Most OEMs offer a two year warranty throughout the EU, they too provide limited software support.

AppleCare Plus- just an insurance policy (priced at £79). Personally I expect to see Apple charging people the excess for items that should otherwise be covered by the Sales of goods Act. Dodgy home button- that'll be £50 to repair please.

AppleCare+ only entitles owners to a replacement (read: reconditioned unit) in the event that AIG decide that a repair is uneconomical- which is pretty much consistent with most insurance policies. In many cases owners might be better off with 3rd party policies which also cover theft/loss.

It never ceases to amaze me that that Apple owners bang on about the exceptional build quality of Apple devices yet never question why a premium priced product has the worst warranty duration.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: There's cheap and then there's cheap

>Also Apple are also pretty decent out of warranty - Apple replaced a 3 year old iPhone 4 for around £120.

Hmm, great if you dropped it or something. But if it failed in normal use, they are required to repair it free in many EU countries (for 6 years in most of UK, though only 5 years in Scotland).

They are legally obliged to inform all their customers of this, so I guess you know, but if not:

http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/

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Re: There's cheap and then there's cheap

@Andy Prough

"I'm convinced that half the fanboi comments are just guys that are getting paid $7 per hour by Apple to comment on tech websites using canned company lines."

I'd never thought of that but it makes a lot of sense. After all you can buy followers on twitter by the thousands.

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WTF?

"He also predicted the death of the iPad 2. We wonder who will mourn it. ®"

Wow, what absolutely amazing foresight. Might it be anything slightly related to David Needle's article on 21st October foreseeing exactly this?

http://tabtimes.com/news/ittech-os-ipad-ios/2013/10/21/apple-could-kill-its-most-popular-ipad-today

Oh, and would this be the same Ming-Chi Kuo who predicted no iPad Mini 2 this autumn?

http://appadvice.com/appnn/2013/07/reliable-kgi-securities-analyst-predicts-no-ipad-mini-2-for-this-fall

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Anonymous Coward

Let's see the iPad 2 will be discontinued - well that's amazing and I would never have guessed it. You mean like the eventually discontinue all old models as they get replaced by newer ones.

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Re: iPad 2 will be discontinued

Well there are two amazing things about the iPad 2: Firstly Apple are still selling the 16GB and Wifi only version, even though they have stopped selling the iPad 3 & 4, which would seem to indicate that it satisfies typical user needs. Secondly, having an iPad 2, whilst the 3 & 4 did contain enhancements, it is only with the Air that the accumulation of enhancements is becoming sufficiently noticeable to make the end user choice between models more than just a simple low v high tech spec. & price comparison.

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Anonymous Coward

Amazing the old iPad 2 is still for sale, will we be reading a "How to relieve Apples iPad 2 piles problem" article here next week?

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Mini replacing the Air

I'm not sure what Apple are up to with the Air. While I personally prefer the larger screen, it's hard not to notice that the Mini has an identical spec and is cheaper too (in a way the Mini actually has a better spec due to a screen having a higher pixel density than the Air).

It's like Apple are trying to kill off the 10" form factor, although I don't know why. Maybe the rumours of an iPad Pro are true and the Air will be a mid-range model?

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Re: Mini replacing the Air

The 'iPad Pro' - I'm assuming that means an Intel / OSX iPad? The original iPad rumours (or rather some users' wishlists) included being able to use the iPad for productivity applications (especially ones suited to a stylus, such as Photoshop and the like), or even just use it with a Mac as an extra display and input device. How big a market this is I don't know, existing products are very pricey. Wacom make expensive Android/ Win 8 tablets, and Modbook will turn your Macbook Pro into one, whilst Adobe are bringing drafting and sketching to the iPad with hardware/software solutions. If more developers like Adobe produce productivity software for the iOS iPad, that might negate the need for an OSX version.

http://cintiqcompanion.wacom.com/CintiqCompanion/en/

http://www.modbook.com/modbookpro

http://www.digitalartsonline.co.uk/news/creative-hardware/hands-on-adobe-projects-mighty-napoleon-drawing-hardware-for-ipad/

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Mini replacing the Air

I had an iPad 2 - bought an Mini as thought I wanted something a bit smaller / more portable - but with my ageing eyes found the screen slightly too small. I've just bought an Air as I get the larger screen and lighter weight - so it's perfect for me.

Had no problem selling the Mini for a good price - I gave the iPad 2 to my wife so it's still in use every day and still going strong (iOS 7 etc.) and suspect it's got a good few years left in in. So the fact that the iPad Mini was slightly more expensive is irrelevant when you look how long they last and / or their residual value - if anything it could make them cheaper overall.

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Re: Mini replacing the Air

"The 'iPad Pro' - ... included being able to use the iPad for productivity applications (especially ones suited to a stylus..."

That would the iPad Mini, 3, 4, and Air then as these all support Bluetooth 4.0 and hence are compatible with the Wacom Intuos Creative Stylus.

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Anonymous Coward

Interesting

as nobody I know buys iPads anymore. The world has moved on from overpriced status symbols to cheap or better, more functional mid price Android slabs.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Interesting

Oh well that's it then - Apple may as well pack up as according to you no-one is buying their stuff. Funny when I walk past the Apple stores they are always rammed and people are still queueing for iPhone 5S and iPad Airs.

The Android tablets may be cheaper but better is purely subjective. Faster - no. 128Gb - no. Runs iOS software I already have - no. That is what subjective is - you may just view cheaper as better by only looking at initial purchase cost not TCO / lifetime cost.

Colleague has a 2 year old Motorola Android tablet - I have an iPhone 2 - his is unused and worth northing - mine is still in use and worth about half what I paid for it (and there was not a huge difference in purchase cost at the time). I run iOS 7 on mine - his does not get any updates and has not for ages. I'd happily keep using mine or pass it on (or sell it) - he would be lucky to get someone to buy it on eBay for £30-50.

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Re: Interesting

'I have an iPhone 2 - his is unused and worth nothing - mine is still in use and worth about half what I paid for it'

Are you honestly trying to justify the extra money you spent on an iPhone as some sort of investment?

When it's out of date and obsolete it will be worth just the same as any other mobile device in the same state - sweet F.A . The only difference being that you will have lost more money over it's lifespan.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Interesting

The difference is I see plenty of iPhone 3GS handsets still in use 4 years down the line whereas the Android phones I see get replaced much quicker (18-24 months). Or if you do choose to replace your iDevice after perhaps 2 years it still holds around 50%+ of it's value against much less for Android / other devices.

So look at the total lifetime cost or even over several phones / pads.

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Re: Interesting

>The world has moved on from overpriced status symbols

Really? Evidence please. Last I saw, makers of luxury goods are doing very well.

http://brand-e.biz/global-sales-of-personal-luxury-goods-set-to-rise-6-in-2013_30788.html

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/oct/10/british-luxury-car-brands-record-sales

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23894955

Status symbols are things like watches that cost a few thousand, or cars that cost tens of thousands more than 'really more than good enough' models. People like that don't really care about an extra couple of hundred of quid for a device they use a dozen times a day, if the experience suits them better.

>nobody I know buys iPads anymore

Nor me, but that is because a fair few of my acquaintances already own an iPad (roughly in keeping with the circa 5% of the UK population who do*), and find it still fit for their purposes, and the new iPads haven't been on sale for that long.

* http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/4496619e-db03-11e0-bbf4-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1XjOXZrJr

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Re: Interesting

Also, any tablet can be considered a 'luxury' (i.e not essential) item. There is little difference between someone who can afford to spend £200 on a tablet and someone who can spend £350 on a tablet, when you consider that there are people who can't afford a tablet at all. Any tablet buyer is trading cash for convenience.

(I won't call a conventional computer a 'luxury item' because internet access has become the de facto method of interacting with some government services, let alone companies who only make their cheapest prices available to online customers. )

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Re: Interesting

error: biased or unrepresentative sample detected

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Interesting

As has been shown - most people do not need conventional computers these days and are buying tablets. Father in law was thinking about a new laptop and bought an iPad instead - actually gets used far more as easier to use, instant on etc. Cost a bit less than a real cheap laptop and does everything he wants (and more).

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Interesting

"As has been shown - most people do not need conventional computers these days and are buying tablets.".

Shown by who?

Children at school and students are expected to have access to PC level technology, office applications etc. Essential for several million people in the UK self-employed or running small businesses. Add it up and over half the population rely on PCs outside work and tablets currently enhance their personal computing experiences. A proportion of the population like your father in law lack much in the way of interests or activities in their lives that might make a PC useful so a tablet suffices. A surprising number of people still don't use smartphones but these statistics hardly add up to your conclusion.

Speaking anecdotal: everyone I know personally aged 10-90 who owns a tablet also owns or has access to a PC of some sort Windows, OSX or Linux, often several years old but still working fine for home use. Same goes for users of games consoles.

Fact. An iPad Air costs more than a cheap laptop, considerably more if you want a keyboard and comparable amount of storage. Not that I'm a fan of budget laptops. In time we can expect convergence but its 2-3 years away for majority of products, Surface and convertibles being an exception but too compromised by price or functionality to appeal to the mass market right now.

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Re: Interesting

"The difference is I see plenty of iPhone 3GS handsets still in use 4 years down the line whereas the Android phones I see get replaced much quicker (18-24 months). "

That's because Android phones are improving rapidly by each generation, not just glacially iterating the same old thing like Apple does (not just in phones, typing this on a macbook pro which is indistinguishable from the 3 year old one it just replaced, slightly faster, slightly more annoying interface, but really no difference).

Reason 80% of phones sold are Android now and they get upgraded quicker is because each generation has new features people actually want to pay money for.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Interesting

Sorry, you can't have it both ways. I thought the iPhone owners were supposed to be mindless sheep who bought everything Apple tells them too. Or is it just projection? Nah, it's a the sound of a fandroids arse gums flapping.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Interesting

Face it - if Apple enabled bluetooth mouse mode and made a keyboard case there would be almost no point in buying a laptop. People use them for email, browsing the web, playing games, Twitter, Facebook and writing the odd letter / spreadsheet and my iPad does all that. Sure some businesses may require more but many businesses I see have web based applications that could run on a tablet or virtualised desktops.

Most budget laptops are pretty crap - certainly not comparable in performance or usability to a similarly prices iPad. Kids are still taught keyboards and mice but do you not think in 10 years from now 'touch' or even voice control will be more prevalent. An iPad also goes about 10 hours on a single charge and charges using a simple USB charger whereas laptops typically run for 2-3 hours before needing a recharge - certainly not all day use.

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my next replacement

Have an iPad 3, I like the size and for the amount of emailing, surfing and game playing it gets, the biggest drawback is the uncomfortable edge and the weight. So come next year, I'll be giving the 3 to a close one and buying in the Air.

For my work (sound recordist) I could see the Mini being perfect for clapperboard duties....so even a non retina would suffice for location time.

I have to laugh when people decry tablets as only suitable for entertainment. I have friends in the indie film business who use the iPad as their preproduction tool for storyboarding and script writing.

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Re: my next replacement

>So come next year, I'll be giving the 3 to a close one and buying in the Air.

Why? This time next year the iPad 6 should be available.

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Anonymous Coward

AppleCare+ now includes insurance! Smash your £500+ iPhone and Apple replace it for £50 (up to 2 times in 2 years) so that may make it better / cheaper than separate insurance policies for accidental damage (although it does not cover theft / loss).

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Anonymous Coward

The Mini Retina and the Air are essentially the same thing with different screen sizes - so you pick which you prefer - it's pretty simple really and hardly a case of the Mini killing the Air. I actually bought the Air as I wanted a larger screen for watching video and web browsing - some people may prefer the portability of the Mini but now it's no compromise - just as fast, same storage options, retina screen and cheaper!

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I'm a reasonably busy person. Most of my Interneting is done in transit and most of my shopping is done about five minutes after I walk into the store. I like the limited product selection from Apple, I'm not remotely interested in or have time to compare specs from a bunch of different manufacturers. I know Apple products are going to do what they're supposed to do, it's an easy sell.

You don't even have to be in similar circumstances to mine to not have time for tire kicking. Parents and other givers of technology gifts don't have to faff around with some BestBuy sales kid to make a decision. There's little room for confusion. It's a wonderful retail experience: Here's my money, now give me my new thing.

My point in all this is that the price and spec comparison arguments like those above are overly simplified and are representative of only parts of the consumer market. Many, many people have other things they value more than price, hardware specs or interoperability of apps.

Value is 100% determined by the purchaser and why that's so hard for people to grasp is beyond me.

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Anonymous Coward

That was an awfully long, rambling way to say "Choice is bad"

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Anonymous Coward

Agreed. People decide on what is good value for them, there are no absolutes.

However, much criticism of Apple is fundamentally based on the one size fits all marketing approach which contradicts this observation. All the same, their competitors should learn from Apple that too much choice is a negative unless you clearly identify markets.

Apple have done extremely well to hit a particular sweet spot with some excellent products aimed at a part of the potential tablet market and this will likely hold just as true in a couple of years time as iPad sales slip below 10% of market share or Apple decide to go mass market with a different value proposition.

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"That was an awfully long, rambling way to say "Choice is bad".

No. But this is a very short way of saying that reading comprehension is a dying skill.

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It will certainly be interesting to see how Apple deals with the inevitable market and brand saturation. Historically they've always been a niche company (compared to other tech brand names) and they've entered an entirely different world of business when dealing with the broader consumer base. Your ability to ram things down people's throats declines in direct proportion to the size of the market you're serving.

Samsung has an advantage there as they're experienced players in the low margin, mass market game and have lots of other steady state sales lines to support them. Apple doesn't. They've got a huge pile of cash but unless they do something creative with it, fairly soon, they risk falling back into the pretentious niche category that still haunts them.

You can be boutique or you can be mass market, but you can't be both and that's what Apple is trying to do. I know which way I would go, but we'll see which direction they choose.

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Anonymous Coward

No it's just that you can be pretty confident if you want the best (and are not against them for other reasons) it's likely made by Apple. Best tablet is the iPad Air, best phone is the iPhone 5S, best laptop is either the Macbook Air or Macbook Pro - best all in one the iMac etc. Best service, grey residuals, very well made etc.

Yes you can argue specs but if you are not buying on price the Apple kit is hard to beat - even if I wanted a Windows (only) machine think I'd probably buy a Macbook Pro as how many others offer around 9 hours battery life with a retina screen and PCIe flash memory.

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hahahahahaha

The false equivalencies of apple sheep.

The reality is if you compare apples and oranges and you are looking for the apple flavour nothing beats apple.

Yes, Apple has some great technical products. No they are not the best in every market they compete in. That attitude is why they are increasingly marginalised. No one would care if Apple said "we are proud of our achievements". They care because Apple fans & employees fervently believe beyond all reason that they cannot put a foot wrong.

Time and time again their decisions are shown to be only one possible way "not THE way"

I know of products in every market that Apple compete in, that I would rather have. This is because... in my humble opinion. It is better.

I remember overhearing a conversation 3 yrs ago about how "HTC suck because you cannot plug it into iTunes"... because that is clearly a fault of HTC.

You may be happy in your bubble. get over it. No one else cares.

:)

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