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back to article How do spooks build surveillance rigs? In Oz they TENDER for it

Australia's Federal Police force (AFP) has issued a tender for deep packet inspection (DPI) kit capable of processing data encapsulated by the European Telecommunications Standards Institute's ETSI 102 232 format for lawfully-intercepted communications. Why does the AFP need to listen to telecoms intercepts? Aside from the fact …

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Big Brother

I'd pass comment

But, ya know....

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"The appliance"? WTF is AFP babbling about? It's not an espresso maker ...

Morons clueless about technology are clueless morons.

Earth to AFP: Eyeball "United Kingdom – United States of America Agreement". It already exists, if you have the clearance. If you don't have the clearance ... well, you probably shouldn't go there.

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Boffin

Re: jake Re: "The appliance"? WTF is AFP babbling about? It's not an espresso maker ...

It's probably they want their own system for national investigations so they don't have to ask the Yanks for info. Makes it all a bit neater when it comes to court time (warrants remain internal affairs) and they won't get accused of being "Imperialist Yanky lapdog Fascist poodles" by the sheeple. Oh, too late on the last, the sheeple were going to say that anyway.

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@Matt (was: Re: jake "The appliance"? WTF is AFP babbling about? It's not an espresso maker ...)

The Aussies don't have to ask. They already have the sigintel ... Do you not know what "United Kingdom – United States of America Agreement" is?

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Re: "The appliance"? WTF is AFP babbling about? It's not an espresso maker ...

<sigh>Standard terminology for this sort of tender</sigh>

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Happy

Re: jake Re: @Matt (was: jake "The appliance"? WTF is AFP babbling about?....

As I understand it, there are some limitations on entering the intel from the Agreement in Oz court. What I suspect will happen is the Agreement will be used as a source of targeting information and then the local program will be used (with the relevant court order/warrant) to provide court evidence. After all, it will look much better if the prosecution can wheel in a local copper and he can provide evidence in the firsthand, rather than having to say "we have this recording but we can't say who recorded it or how due to national security".

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "The appliance"? WTF is AFP babbling about? It's not an espresso maker ...

I guess you also think tender referes to the steam engine variety?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tender_%28rail%29

Morons clueless about jargon are clueless morons.

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Meh

Jealous little sister

Awww looks like the AFP want to own all communications just like its siblings ...It must give them such an enormous sense of importance to obtain the ability to eradicate peoples privacy

under the guise of national security. It is so vital that they have complete control of everything, otherwise ...... things might actually improve.....power is its own demise...it is inevitable though and they will not listen

This is anonymous right??

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Jealous little sister

close. AFP get what the spooks dribble to them and that must irritate. The spooks have publically gloated (my term) that they feed the AFP only what they like, rather than as required for criminal investigation. As for legal oversight, depends on how many lawyers involved. Quoting a whisper from many moons ago, if lawyers are doing the investigation management, the investigation can get so illegal the cops had to rein in the lawyers. Fortunately Johnny Howler and his successors have removed those legal impediments that concerned the police then. And with the SOPA treaty being supinely supported by Abbot and Co, no doubt the policing effort will be diverted from trivia like tracking the local terrorists and violent crims to important support for out beloved ally by chasing file sharers. And this is what the kit will be used for.

At least they are tendering for the kit, unlike some Oz governments who just buy something that does not work anyway.

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WTF?

From it's name this sounds like the Australian FBI, which would make this *domestic"

surveillance.

All that "policing from pacific states where the rule of law has broken down" is so much BS.

It seems this is for spying with an actual warrant

You'll note the actual legal authorization process is not hard wired into the equipment IE the "warrant" carries a unique (one time) code to enable any given channel to be monitored.

The potential supplier list should be interesting. I'll bet Dettica (A BAe subsidiary) will be near the top of the list with their "proven" capacity.

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Anonymous Coward

It's not the tool that matters!

OK, let's click back here. Not every intercept tool is automatically evil. We task law enforcement with enforcing the law (it's in the name, really), and for this they need tools. Intercept is one of those tools, but with power comes responsibility - if supervised and used correctly (for which proof MUST be required) this sort of utility is IMHO acceptable.

The problem starts when you remove the supervision and don't punish abusers severely. You're then faced with the question if it's really a good idea to give more power into the hands of those who cannot be trusted with it, but that's not the fault of the tool. Oh, and BTW, that tool already exists for business investigations.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: It's not the tool that matters!

I agree that not every intercept tool is automatically evil, they fall under the category of "Dual-Use Weapons"

They should have the same international traceability & surveillance on sale/ownership/use as sharp pointy & exothermic & projectile weapons, as DPI systems can and have killed.

I happen to have the (de-censored) Training Manual for the Amesys-Bull Eagle DPI system, which was (allegedly) sold by Amesys to Ghadaffi with the Training Manual fully populated with 'terrorists' (by DGSE?) some of whom are now the current Libyan government with one DPI target who appears to be a lawyer based in London! That's a dual-use weapon that was sold fully-loaded!

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Anonymous Coward

AFP != DSD

<EOM>

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Trollface

Sounds like they just need a copy of Wireshark on a really fast PC.

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Anonymous Coward

Telecommunications Act 1997

Not a new capability or requirement of the AFP etc as far as i can tell, probably just a technology update / re-fresh. Conforming to ETSI 102 232 handover specification seems pretty standard, and is likely already available on the equipment in use by carriage service providers (CSPs).

The Telecommunications Act 1997 requires CSPs (which includes internet service providers, VOIP providers, telephone providers etc) to ensure all their services can readily be intercepted, install & maintain interception capabilities, and provide access for the transfer of intercepted communications and traffic to LE / Intelligence agencies.

CSPs also have to lodge an annual 'Interception Capability Plan' to both the ACMA and the Attorney General's Department detailing how they have implemented this.

See Interesting reading:

http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2009C00536 - The Act

http://www.acma.gov.au/theACMA/law-enforcement-telecommunications - ACMA factsheet

https://www.efa.org.au/Issues/Privacy/tia.html - EFA info on Intercept / Access Laws

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