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back to article PlayStation daddy on new PS4: She's ALL 'PLAY', NO 'Station' this time

The goals of Sony's PlayStation 4, on sale Friday, were rewritten from the ground up – after the company "spread itself too thin" when developing the PlayStation 3. So said Dominic Mallinson, Sony's veep of R&D for Playstation, speaking at the AMD developers conference, APU13, in San José, California, on Wednesday. Mallinson …

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The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

The PS4 is a scam and a fraud.

The PS4 surely can't be a supercomputer. The already obsolete outdated AMD APU Jaguar at 1.6GHz it's 30% slower than the slowest Intel Core i3 CPU.

The PS4 (as well as the XBoxOne which is just the same fraud,same hardware crap,same scam) already can't even sustain 720p 30fps real-time rendered games. 1080p can be barely achieved by dropping texture quality, 3D models complexity, disabling light and physics effects or lowering quality a lot on each single algorithm.

If millions of people will be sheep and enjoy being ripped off by buying this fake next-gen consoles scam fraud then there will be no new true next-gen consoles for the next 8-10 years. By that time UHDV 8K 32MegaPixel movies, tv shows and PC gaming will have become a reality already.. but the consoles won't have been able to even deliver 4K gaming and movies playback.

Only by rejecting this fraud and not buying the outdated scam fake next-gen consoles there is a chance that then the managers thieves behind all of this will be forced to be in a hurry spending money on R&D before going bankrupt to deliver true next-gen future proof 4K and 8K capable consoles in 2-3 years from now.

Otherwise buy this scam now and forget about any true next-gen consoles being released for a long time.

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Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

People don't buy consoles for cutting edge technology, they buy it for the couch and kids. For 400usd it does very well for what it does. That being said, the lock-in on these things are remarkably bad. People usually argue lock-in exists across all computers, but on a gaming consoles, the whole thing is caged.

Oh...

"By that time UHDV 8K 32MegaPixel movies, tv shows and PC gaming will have become a reality already.."

The line count and bitrate (any fair bitrate at least) only matter if you plan on getting a very, very large screen. 8K for tv's <= 100 inches should be almost indistinguishable from 4K. So unless you plan on having something like a 50 foot TV in your house (or as your house), then what does it matter?

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Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

Intel fans will hate what I have to say, but everyone reading this can look up the facts for themselves....

"The already obsolete outdated AMD APU Jaguar at 1.6GHz it's 30% slower than the slowest Intel Core i3 CPU" -- You are comparing apples to oranges. You said it yourself: "AMD APU" vs. "Intel Core i3 CPU". An Advanced Processing Unit (APU) has to process graphics in parallel, while performing primary CPU tasks. An Intel Central Processor (CPU) cannot process video whatsoever. Did you ever stop to think why AMD is the exclusive supplier for the PS4 and XBox One for their APU's?? -- A console powered by Intel chips would just be a low-end PC with no gaming ability.

To call an AMD chip "obsolete" is the same as saying that Intel is obsolete as well. Nearly every fundamental processor micro-architecture technology Intel chips have employed since 2003 is derived from and more accurately, reverse engineering from AMD's industry leading micro-architecture innovations:

Point A: Intel did not invent x86-based 64 bit processors. AMD introduced the world to desktop and laptop 64-bit chips while Intel was still maintaining that consumers would never need it, or more than 4GB of system memory, which 32-bit chips are limited to. All Intel chips run on AMD64 architecture but fail to process two of the many instructions (which gave Intel an excuse to call it "EM64T" because Intel can't admit that AMD is better than them at anything).

Point B: Intel did not invent integrated memory controllers, or direct memory access, or NUMA (Non-Uniform Memory Architecture) for multi-socket server architecture -- they copied all of that from AMD as well, after several years of AMD's success with that advancement.

Point C: Intel did not invent high-speed interconnects between processor sockets. They ripped that off from AMD as well. They just don't call it Hypertransport interconnects. They copied AMD when they finally had to replace their Netburst architecture, long known to be a performance bottleneck in the Pentium days before the Core series.

Point D: Intel also did not invent the APU. They have now begun to steal that idea straight from AMD, just like all the rest of "their" technology.

To say that AMD products are obsolete is plain ignorant. Without AMD, there would *BE* no new technology in Intel chips. Intel are followers. The only reason Intel chips can be faster than AMD chips is because they are stealing AMD's superior technology and patents, and coupling it with their own deep pockets which affords Intel a superior size-reduced fabrication process. That doesn't change the fact that Intel are no longer by definition "innovators" and have not been for over a decade. AMD is obsolete? That like saying Electricity is obsolete just because Thomas Edison stole that invention from Nicola Tesla and ran away with all the profits.

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Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

@TechRenegade -

That's a pretty good read. I'm a big fan of both Intel and AMD chips for their different uses. I built my high-powered workstation that can grind through OCR'ing millions of pages of PDFs with an amazing 6-core beast of an AMD processor. My favorite laptop of all-time uses a Haswell i5 and gets over 11 hours of battery time and appears to require almost no cooling. Both companies have been putting out fantastic products, especially recently, and we are all the beneficiaries of their competition.

I would take issue with you on one point. Many of the technical points you addressed were also being worked on by Intel for years before they came to market in AMD products. The fact is that both companies saw the need for 64-bit processing, effective multi-core microarchitecture and numerous other advances. We could talk about Intel developing 64-bit processing 10 years before AMD64 came to market, and IBM working on it 38 YEARS before AMD64, but really, a company's decision to market a specific product is often a bit divorced from their engineering innovations. To your argument about AMD64, you would then have to discuss what processes and innovation AMD saw in IA64 that it could use. And what did both companies learn about 64-bit processing from the CDC vector supercomputers and the Cray vector supercomputers of the 1970's? And since engineers are constantly jumping from company to company, how much brain transfer occurred from IBM in the 60's to CDC/Cray in the 70's, to Intel in the 80's, to AMD in the 90's? Probably a lot more than you would think.

Your statements such as "Without AMD, there would *BE* no new technology in Intel chips", "Intel are followers" seem extreme. I've got family and friends who have worked on chip development in engineering at both companies and at Motorola for decades, and I can tell you the amount of work and innovation from all three companies in pushing the technology forward has been absolutely extraordinary.

Otherwise, I agree - AMD chips are incredible. I look forward to watching my son destroy zombies and terrorists on his PS4. I'm sure the APU will give remarkable performance. Thumbs up to AMD - keep the innovations coming!

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Facepalm

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

@Joerg - "The already obsolete outdated AMD APU Jaguar at 1.6GHz it's 30% slower than the slowest Intel Core i3 CPU."

That's just a remarkably ignorant statement. You should learn a bit about how chips work before posting again on the subject.

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Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

Thank you for bringing more depth to the discussion. Mostly I was talking about things in terms of marketing firsts. I just get tired of everyone saying AMD doesn't do anything right, because it seems to me that I have had more value in my own systems due to AMD to a large extent.

i was aware that Intel had developed non-x86-64 based systems (itanium), and you of course have good points about the knowledge transfer across corporations over time. Still might you you have some specific examples you might want to share with us? I'm genuinely interested in the truth, but in the last ten years, I have to be honest, all seen over the years is Intel copying AMD. Anything that happens behind the scenes is hard to discuss or debate because it is not generally public knowledge.

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Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

In CPU terms yes, the jaguar probably is somewhat out-dated. However the CPU isn't entirely needed with games anymore. Look at the games on your ps3, and then go find a few of the 'big' games on PC and check your task manager. Playing stuff like BF etc barely dents my CPU. The jaguar APU has more than enough grunt to handle new games.

The issue is purely with the graphical half. But again PS4 gpu is based on the 7870 but lacks the latency from connecting via a bus as it's a straight up transfer of data between CPU and GPU. Not to mention that my somewhat dated gtx260 can still play the vast majority of games at max settings, ergo the 7870 in theory should have no problems.

Your third paragraph is pure PC master race bullshit based purely on your own opinions. As stated before the CPU and GPU are both theoretically more than powerful enough to run games at 1080p for 60fps. The x-bone suffers slightly becuase their graphics architecture is based on the 7790 which is a bit of a drop really.

blah blah blah blah blah is all I got out of your remaining points.

I'm not so much a console gamer anymore, I play most games on PC these days, only getting a few 'console exclusives' as and when I want them. But any kind of fanboy be it xbone, sony, or PC just needs to shut up and listen to themselves once in a while and see if they also hear trumpets rather than a voice.

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Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

Comparing apples to oranges on the CPU front. The CPU is part of a dedicated gaming system that also happens to run other capabilities.

It has always been this way.

The PS1 had a 33mhz chip, as did my 486 PC at the time. Yet the PS1 could run a heck of a lot more games than my 486 ever could.

Comparing a PS1 to an SX processor wasn't a fair comparison.

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Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

The PS1 ran at 33mhz? My God, that was one slow processor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI#Prefixes

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Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

"more than 4GB of system memory, which 32-bit chips are limited to. "

Tsk. Look up PAE, Physical Address Extension. This allows a compatible 32-bit processor to access memory beyond the 4GB line. And it was introduced on the Pentium Pro. In 1995.

The fact that non-server editions of 32-bit Windows don't exploit the capability (they do run in PAE mode, but limit physmem to 4G for driver compatibility and licensing reasons) doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

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Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

While i feel you are pretty much spot on with your comments, i have to say that not everybody goes for the absolute, end all of graphics and computing power in a console. As said in the article, your console will sell mostly based on content. This race for best performance has not done the gaming industry any good in general if you ask me, as the focus has shifted from gameplay, to getting the most gorgeous graphics available. That's not what most gamers want. Eyecandy is nice, but if the gameplay sucks, people aren't going to buy your games.

The PS4 and the Xbox one are superior to their predecessors, shouldn't that be enough?

Still upvoted, as i do agree with most of it.

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Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

Intel don't have to rip off anything. They have a perpetual licence to AMD's x86 derived processor technologies.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

Whilst it's true that the Xbox One is struggling to achieve 720p 60FPS, all the PS4 release multiplatform titles handle 1080p 60FPS without trouble,.

The PS3 is indeed a fine system, mines been used pretty much every day since launch, be it gaming, TV streaming or Movie disk playback.

I already have my PS4 pre-order lined up, and from what I have seen of Killzone Shadowfall, it's got enoigh grunt to put high end PC's to shame when games don't have to also cater for inferior other platforms. For that reason, for me, PS4 is a surefire purchase given what I have seen so far. I hope Sony get the DLNA software back in soon, as that's my only grip with an other perfect system.

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Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

"Whilst it's true that the Xbox One is struggling to achieve 720p 60FPS, all the PS4 release multiplatform titles handle 1080p 60FPS without trouble,."

Not true - BF4 is upscaled on the PS4 - and looks worse than on the Xbox One as the PS4 upscales in software, whereas the Xbox One does it in hardware....And Watch Dogs only runs at 30fps on the PS4...

Forza 5 is 60fps / 1080p on the Xbox One - so it's possible to do - the Xbox One has advanced compressed texture tiling technology and a 200GBps on chip cache that the PS4 doesn't - that will take developers a while to learn to use....

The PS4 is a games only crippled PC - no CD, no MP3, no DNLA, etc, etc. I can't see why anyone would buy one versus a PC.

The Xbox One at least does a lot more that you can't currently do on a PC with Kinect and the HDMI input capability...

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Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

It's not a valid comparison because most games actually do most of their processing on the GPU in the machine which, being integrated into the CPU itself, will undoubtedly be able to communicate with the CPU at a far greater speed that the GPU and CPU in a PC can communicate. It also means you can't directly compare clock speeds. Put a 2.4GHz Core 2 against a 3GHz P4 and you'll see what I mean.

Also, bear in mind that the consoles are actually competing against the low-end and mid-range PCs. Not the high end stuff, which can cost an order of magnitude more than the console. How long will it be before a low end or mid-range PC will be able to manage 4K gaming?

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Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

FUD.

Both consoles contain a hardware scaler - Microsoft (or DICE) opted to employ edge sharpening on the lower resolution Xbox One version of Battlefield 4. They chose a horrible full screen AA for the PS4, that's why the XB1 version looks (in my opinion but it's not a popular one) better.

CD/MP3/DLNA to be implemented in a future PS4 patch.

The ESRAM cache if fully utilised still leaves the Xbox One at a significant power disadvantage even before Kinect eats (approximately) 10% of the resources. MS are working to find ways to free that up but it's not enough to counter the 50% deficit.

Kinect hasn't taken off, it's a party toy - Sony did well to make their camera a separate item people can choose to buy.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

"PS4 upscales in software, whereas the Xbox One does it in hardware" Upscaling is bad whichever. Hardware upscaling is bad because it's not upgradeable.

BF4 on PS4 in NATIVE 1080p 60FPS looks way better than the 720p crap of the Xbox One. It seems there are some Microsoft shills desperate to convince people they didn't screw up the hardware specs, and plenty of idiots that pre-ordered one keen to believe it.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

>>It seems there are some Microsoft shills desperate to convince people they didn't screw up the hardware specs, and plenty of idiots that pre-ordered one keen to believe it. <<

And there are still anonymous twats happy to drag what was an interesting conversation about the architecture of the two new consoles back into name calling and fan wars.

The grown ups are talking, shouldn't you be watching CBBC?

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Advanced Processing Unit (APU)

Sorry but it is Accelerated Processing Unit, not Advanced

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

Kinect takes no more console resources than a standard controller - all the processing is done on the Kinect.

And Kinect still holds the record as the fastest selling consumer device ever......V1 might have been limited, but V2 is a lot more powerful - making every console have one will mean that all developers take advantage of it...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

"BF4 on PS4 in NATIVE 1080p 60FPS looks way better than the 720p crap of the Xbox One"

BF4 is UPSCALED in SOFTWARE on the PS4 - the Xbox One version looks better. Numerous reviewers have said so.

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Meh

Re: Advanced Processing Unit (APU)

This is debatable, but not worth it...

"An accelerated processing unit (APU, also Advanced Processing Unit) is a computer's main processing unit that includes additional processing capability"

-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerated_processing_unit

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Trollface

Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

You know nothing and want to teach?

PS4 + Huma + TrueAudio + Matle = very fast for gaming.

4K monitor / TV will be a standard 2020 "maybe" and speaking UHDV 8K ... laughable.

Keep your world Wonderland or change your medicine.

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Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

>And Kinect still holds the record as the fastest selling consumer device ever......V1 might have been limited, but V2 is a lot more powerful - making every console have one will mean that all developers take advantage of it

Yeah except many gamers like myself don't enjoy standing up and waving our arms like wankers when we want to play. If I wanted the exercise I would go the park for free. Forcing me to pay $100 extra for a device I will never use, I'll pass thank you (not sure if buying the PS4 either yet at least not right away as my TV is not even 1080p so need to upgrade it first). It seems Microsoft hasn't learned what Sony learned the hard way last generation that absolute price matters regardless of the amount of crap you can pack into the box for the "value".

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Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

>HDMI input capability

Yeah that is definitely at the top of every gamer's feature list for a gaming console.

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Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

They work best with salt and vinegar, I find...

Look, I'm stuck in bed feeling shite. You're not gonna get witty erudite and urbane comments from me tonight, chaps...

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h3
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Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

I saw a tech demo by AMD of an optimised console next gen engine. That didn't work properly even on a really top end i7 but managed to run just perfect on an under clocked bulldozer. (At 2 Ghz).

Never underestimate the will of console dev's to put in the absolute minimum amount of effort possible into stuff when it comes to porting to the PC.

There is no way something optimised properly for 6 cores will run well on a dual core i3.

EA has already said they are going to support Mantle because it makes things easier for them. Intel / Nvidia will have to do something.

Microsoft as well are one of the few companies who actually understands how to made the AMD architecture work properly at all also. (Any difference could likely be more than accounted for by compiler enhancements).

Nvidia are the worst though when it comes to being deliberately not compatible with standards.

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h3
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Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

The PC processor around the time as the PS1 was the original Pentium.

P54C 0.6 µm 75–120 MHz 16 KB 50–66 MHz Socket 5 October 1994

It compared reasonably well when cost was taken into account.

That is no longer the case. It is a PC and it is totally out of date already.

The ipad will overtake these new consoles within a pretty short time frame.

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h3
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Re: The PS3 was and still is a top-notch product

Depends how they choose to do it. Not sure what the point is where you no longer need anti aliasing.

2 - 7870 Tahiti's in crossfire at £130 each (More in common with the 7900's than the rest of the 7800's like the consoles use)

Motherboard - £75

AMD Piledriver 8 core 4ghz - £150

Something like that.

(Advantage that anything they can do at 30fps you should be able to do at 60fps).

And you get the choice what is acceptable and what isn't (For me anything less than 60fps never will be - The American NES had 60fps it should have never been open to question).

The PS3 (Along with the Saturn) are consoles that will be remembered as forever wasted potential.

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So the PS4 is for "play". But I read here that it won't play mp3 or stream DLNA.. What kind of 'play' is that.

I'll stick to my PC thanks

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A J

It won't have those features at launch. There is at least one article out there where Sony employees discuss what features will be added in future. I believe they have confirmed CD and MP3 playback as a 'coming soon' feature.

http://www.giantbomb.com/podcasts/a-chat-with-shuhei-yoshida/1600-670/

One issue with any new platform is the time it takes to build the OS software for it. Both Sony and MS are cutting it very fine, releasing the hardware before the software is completely finished, and hence both have some missing features at launch that are promised to be added later.

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Lets face it though, when was the last time anyone really used their ps3 as a CD player? I mean movie playback via netflix, blu-ray player sure. DVD / CD? I honestly wasn't aware they existed these days.

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Anonymous Coward

CD's are those funny things that people prefer when they want to listen to music, not a tune.

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Anonymous Coward

Guess you missed the news from a couple of days ago that Sony confirmed these features are coming soon.

No software update can however fix the Xbox One deficiencies sadly.

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I think Sony are probably right...

Now that you can buy a TV with internet and network media streaming built right in to the monitor, why the hell would you want to pay extra for that ability in your gaming console ? I would rather the money went on making it a better games machine.

When I first got my PS3 it was always in use as the house DVD/BD/Streaming Media server as well as games console but now that the combination of TV and Sky box does all that guff independently, the PS3 is only used for games.

The market requirements have changed from when the PS3 came out to now, and I think Sony are actually going the right way, rather than Microsoft who are trying to sell you a box that plays games and also does a whole bunch of stuff that my TV / PVR already do better.

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Users: Build us a gaming machine, that plays games, and ignore all the multimedia stuff that gets in the way of playing games!

Sony: Here, have a console that's completely prioritised gaming.

Users; WAAAHHHH! Where are all the multimedia functions!?!?!

Sony:??? *sigh* OK, we'll give it to you soon.

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The Xbox One can't actually play disc based games out of the box, you need the 600mb or so patch for that. The PS4 is missing some functions out of the box, but playing games it will do.

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If you ever played any Driving Games, Grand Turismo 5, for example. Then you'd appreciate the ability of loading your own Music (al-la mp3's), to the PS3. You can also do this with the X360. Although you have to rip those from a CD. ANNOYING, and I forget if Fozza had the ability to play User Background Music. I knew it didn't (or I couldn't find a way to use), have a Dash Cam like the GT5 Premium Cars had / have.

So I quickly gave up on it and returned back to GT5 again!

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Funny I thought those were the things you let Google Music Rip for you.. (Wait does Google's Music Manager ever rip CDs?) before you upload them to Google's Cloudy servers...

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JLV
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well...

I got my PS3 as a BluRay player back in 2007, because it was, and still probably is, one of the better players to deal with all the BluRay disc version issues.

Later on I found that there were some, not many, PS3 games that I wasn't allergic to.

Graphics are nice, but not the end-all of games. YMMV, but, in my opinion, consoles don't FPS, strategy or wargames very well. RPGs or Portal Wombat clones can be top-notch however.

I also got into Netflix on the PS3. My Samsung TV does Netflix now, but that TV model has _lots_ of users complaining about flakey wifi connectivity. It's dropped mine several times already, but I've managed to get it to reconnect so far (never quite sure how, or what upsets it in the first place). Great TV otherwise.

I don't get cable, just internet, so I like the idea of having the PS3 as a fallback.

Having a console that does NO multimedia is a big red flag to me. Because I trust a console's media support capability way more than a TV's firmware.

It's fine if Sony provides this as later add-ons, I won't upgrade till there are <20$ games available on the PS4 anyway.

The one thing they are welcome to ditch is web browsing. Unless... they come up with a nifty web controller.

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Open up development to the masses!

It is interesting that they mention the "App Store". Will they open up development to anyone? I'd certainly like to see what the casual programmers out there can do. I doubt they would, especially after yanking the PS3's ability to run Linux.

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Hoe

Joke...

This generation of consoles is a joke, M$ lived up to their name and removed support for old wheels etc. Sony joke about M$ changing their mind when they removed Linux from the PS3, YES we remember Sony!

Both consoles are seriously under powered, no multi-monitor with for me is a huge downer running everything in Eyefinity.

Neither are close to cheap and games are already being 'held back' for the consoles, AKA Fifa next gen which EA say the PC can't run, another joke.

Sony and MS shouldn't be trusted, long live Valve, let's hope Linux / Steambox's works out for games, can you really see EA backing it?

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Not on my shopping list.

My PS3 was purchased to be a central part of my living room, not just a game console. Without support for flac, mkv's via DLNA, I won't be looking at upgrading until the PS4 can replace the PS3. I have more than enough games for my PS2, PS3 and Wii to keep me busy for years. New consoles mean there will be many games in the discount bins. :) I may look at the PS4 when they fix all the missing features of the PS3 that were once part of the reason I purchased the PS3, Linux.

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Re: Not on my shopping list.

Same for me - the additional bells and whistles is the main reason I went for PS3 - an important piece of entertainment in my living-room, especially for USB playback and streaming media from my server.

My TV and DVD player are nowhere near as quick, easy and functional as the PS3.

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Re: Not on my shopping list.

I haven't yet decided on whether to purchase a PS4 or an Xbox One but, honestly, MKV support will be a major deciding factor. It will mean I can do away with my media player.

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Re: Not on my shopping list.

But the PS3 to the best of my memory didn't support Matroska either.

I'd like to say that it didn't support Flac either, but then WTF is Flac? Its just lil'ol *.mp3, and the PS3 actually does support that. The built-in DLNA Server/Client on the PS3 is about as useful as every other leading Industry Branded Solution I've seen *cough* Samsung "All Share" *cough* i.e. BADLY BROKEN!

To wit, if they can't give us a fully working DLNA Server/Client, I'd just prefer they skip it!

Or else it just becomes a bit of a sick joke. Once you manage to get an actual working DLNA Server/Client installed. Be this on the PS3 a Phablet or your SmartTV!

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Happy

Re: Not on my shopping list.

Xbmc on ps3 / ps4 - now that would be awesome.

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Re: Not on my shopping list.

But the PS3 to the best of my memory didn't support Matroska either.

I'd like to say that it didn't support Flac either, but then WTF is Flac? Its just lil'ol *.mp3, and the PS3 actually does support that. The built-in DLNA Server/Client on the PS3 is about as useful as every other leading Industry Branded Solution I've seen *cough* Samsung "All Share" *cough* i.e. BADLY BROKEN!

To wit, if they can't give us a fully working DLNA Server/Client, I'd just prefer they skip it!

Or else it just becomes a bit of a sick joke. Once you manage to get an actual working DLNA Server/Client installed. Be this on the PS3 a Phablet or your SmartTV!

SIDF?! Really why all the down votes? If your gonna down vote me then have the decency to state just where I'm wrong then? I can see where I might have fu--ed up confusing Flac for Lame. I really don't know what was going though my mind at the time. But I stand by the rest of what I had said!

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