back to article Internet Explorer 11 for Win7 bods: Soz, no HTML5 fun for you

Internet Explorer 11 arrived for Windows 7 last week but some key features are missing, particularly in the field of HTML5-enabled film, TV and audio. Microsoft has compiled a list of features you'll find in IE11 on Windows 8.1 but which have been pulled from the version of its latest browser that targets Windows 7. Some …

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Bullying just like in the Old Days

"It also underlines Microsoft's desire to push users onto Windows 8.1 machines and leave the era of keyboard and mouse and the Windows 7 generation behind it."

All it's likely to do is push even more of Microsoft's customers into downloading an alternative browser - and once they've switched it's unlikely that they'll find any compelling reason to switch back to IE again. Wake up, MS, it's 2013 - you don't seem to have realised that you don't have the same clout with browsers as you did in those halcyon days of 2003.

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Oh Microsoft

You can take your Windows 8, 8.1, Internet Explorer, and especially an artifically degraded version of Internet Explorer (degraded IE, now there's an oxymoron) and cram it up your arse.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Oh Microsoft

What idiot still uses that dog turd of a browser anyway ?

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404
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Re: Oh Microsoft

Used as back up or special occasions.

Special occasion happened yesterday with the Verizon website. Firefox 25 wouldn't display the account area properly, where IE11 did. Don't know why but there it is.

As a sidenote: did save $50 a month moving to a better plan - Verizon was screwing me pretty hard - funny how their 'Account Analysis Tool' didn't pick that up.

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Linux

Re: Oh Microsoft

Fortunately for Linux users IE and all it's "root one to the kernel" ActiveX technology is not available.

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Re: Oh Microsoft

Duuuude...I have Tux hanging from my car mirror and shower head.... and even I can spot you trolling.

Did I down vote you? Hehe, NEVER...troll on (Get Em!) :-).

P.S. This was posted from a Windows 7 machine...I totally fucked up with apt-get install -f. Goddamn multi-arch dependency bullshit....fuck 64bit everything!

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Re: Oh Microsoft

Isn't IE that thing you use in Windows to download a real browser?

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still uses that dog turd

Unfortunately, the South Korean Financial Supervisory Service (FSS).

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Re: Oh Microsoft

I use FTP (from the command prompt) in Windows to download a real browser... much more satisfying.

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Meh

Not bothered

Don't use IE, except at work.

So

Basically

Fuck 'em.

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What do I care on my personal equipment the only use I have for IE is the browser after installing/reinstalling windows to use to get a decent browser and for that's chrome at the moment.

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Anonymous Coward

Why Chrome?

Why not Firefox?

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Trollface

Re: Why Chrome?

She/He wants to let Google spy on him obviously

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Also deleted my Favourites

I upgraded to IE11 on my W7 laptop and it wiped out my favourites and tabs.

Thankfully I only use IE for website testing.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Also deleted my Favourites

Sorry but more fool you for not backing all that stuff up. Have you not been bitten by this 'feature' before with Microsoft.

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Trollface

Re: Also deleted my Favourites

Microsoft is pleased to announce that for their* convenience and comfort customers will find upon updating to IE 11 that their IE 10 desktop favourites are migrated to IE 11 TIFKAM favourites. To access them customers simply update from Windows 7 to Windows 8.1 at a modest price.

* = Microsoft's.

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JDX
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The only reason I can think of for this (other than bullying) is that all W7 PCs are assumed to have Flash, whereas Flash isn't allowed in IE in metro-mode on W8 (plugins are only allowed in the desktop version of IE in W8).

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Or it relies on functions/libraries not available in W7, and are not trivial to backport. At least plausible.

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WTF?

Is that really the ONLY reason you can think of JDX?

Is the idea that MS might force obsolescence on an otherwise functional browser-OS combo in order to drive upgrade sales completely unthinkable for you?

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"Flash isn't allowed in IE in metro-mode on W8"

What gave you this idea? Flash is most definitely allowed in IE11 "metro" mode, both on Windows 8 x86, and 8 RT. I've checked this in-store on a Surface 2. (Incidentally, when did Google dump Flash support on Android? I thought it was only iPads that had a gimped browser)

The user cannot install third-party plugins on Metro IE, but that doesn't mean that Microsoft hasn't shipped the browser without Flash installed.

(The inclusion of Flash on RT is something Microsoft should make a bit more of, especially as it lets users play all of those Facebook games like Candy Crush on their tablets, without needing a dedicated app for each).

As for why certain features are disabled, the simplest reason is probably that they are implemented using code that requires APIs that are only present in Windows8.1.

IE11 is a pretty good browser, though. So far, I've found that the only stuff that "breaks" is using only the "-webkit" or "-chrome" prefixed styles without the W3C standard attributes being specified too, as they're supposed to be ( and yes, I include a couple of my own HTML uis in that category :( )

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JDX
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@Tom 38

You seem to have forgotten how to read, or at least chose not to before responding to what I wrote.

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JDX
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@Kristian

Ah, I didn't realise they had decided to build Flash into the browser in that way - thanks for correcting. In that case we're left with the API possibility.

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Flash on Android

"(Incidentally, when did Google dump Flash support on Android? I thought it was only iPads that had a gimped browser)"

My understanding on this matter is that it was Adobe that decided not to continue to update Flash on Android and even decided to pull it from the Play Store. However, for those that really do want it, there is the option of manually downloading and installing APKs from Adobe's Website. (At least, the last time I checked anyway)

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Anonymous Coward

Google didn't dump it, Adobe dumped it.

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"Or it relies on functions/libraries not available in W7, and are not trivial to backport. At least plausible."

Two of the features listed are high DPI support and phone number recognition. The former has been something that MS have pleaded with developers to support since XP. The latter doesn't sound like it depends on some arcane OS feature. Both, in fact, sound like things that you'd have to make a conscious effort to exclude from the Win7 build, once you'd got them working on Win8.

I have to say I'm struggling to imagine the actual reason. No technical issue seems at all plausible, and even the tin-foil theories are unconvincing since surely even the Microsofties are aware by now that end-users have a choice of alternative browsers. (MS themselves have had to write the "app" that informs users of this choice.) I'm afraid the only theory I've come up with so far is that the management at Microsoft have drunk so much of their own kool-aid that they've gone collectively bat-shit insane.

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Re: Flash on Android

And Flash was never very well supported on Android anyway - I think it was only ARMv7 chips that they bothered to compile it for.

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The side-loaded flash support doesn't work under Chrome for Android, although it does (mostly) for Firefox (and i think others like Dolphin, but not 100% sure there as I use FF for the purpose on sites needing it).

At least it didn't used to, although if anyone knows different or how to get it to under Chrome I'd be more than happy to learn how and be corrected.

But the root cause was Adobe giving up on it rather than anyone else which triggered the withdrawal, as correctly noted above.

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A close friend of mine who isn't too computer literate recently bought a new PC with Win8 pre-installed. She contacted me and said that she wasn't able to view some content on certain websites, so I had a look at her machine and checked it out. Sure enough, no Flash on TIFKAM-IE so I assumed Flash wasn't installed. On a hunch, I fired up the same website on "normal desktop" IE and it worked flawlessly so obviously Flash was installed and working. Bit of digging shows that it apparently wasn't supposed to work under TIFKAM?

Flash not running on the TIFKAM version of IE absolutely mystified me until I went away and looked it up as I had genuinely no idea it wouldn't work. All I can see is a spectacularly stupid design decision with zero logic behind it, especially when the marketing blurb told people that Flash etc. was all integrated and worked straight out of the box.

This is full fat Win8 running on a desktop PC, so none of this RT tablet crippleware of which some speak.

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Headmaster

Chrome for Android dropped support

Google dropped support for all plugins, including Flash, when it released Chrome for Android long before Adobe announced it wouldn't be releasing any new versions of the plugin for Android.

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RE Electric Panda

Flash does work in TIFKAM-IE but only for MS whitelisted sites, which does not include a lot of legitimate sites as well as freetard ones. At launch there was a way to add sites to the whitelist but MS soon closed that loophole. Last time I looked (Xmas 2012) it was possible to put TIFKAM-IE into dev mode and then you could use Flash on one "dev" site you add to the registry but they may have closed that loophole now too.

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Among the absent are super-duper media extensions, probably with a new DRM. So, there may be some technical considerations, however unlikely they are.

Or the project to backport W8 DRM to W7 kernel is just terribly late, and panic department is running on full steam.

/popcorn icon/

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Re: @Kristian

The API is Windows Driver Model 1.2, which requires some DRM stuff to be caked into the drivers and hardware.

The Netflix app for Windows 8 will not run on AMD cards that use legacy drivers, for example, thus preventing the use of SuperHD.

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Given that everyone uses chrome these days, except for the few people like me that use firefox, yes it is unthinkable that Microsoft could try that.

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Google didn't dump flash support on Android. Adobe dumped flash support on Android.

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@Tom 38

JDX did acknowledge that 'bullying' was a very plausible reason for MS's actions, and then offered an alternate reason, clearly marked as merely a hypothesis.

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Re: Flash on Android

Skyfire web browser, on Google play.

For when you absolutely HAVE to use a website with flash on android.

I tend to install, use website, then uninstall.

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@electricPanda

Sorry no, just checked this on my Windows 8 x84 PC and both IEs do flash.

Perhaps the websites go wrong with the user agent or something, but flash is integrated in the tifkam whatever ie

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Re: their own kool-aid that they've gone collectively bat-shit insane.

I suspect you need to have done that well before you are considered for an initial management position let alone something near the top of the company.

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Just when it looked like they had a chance of sitting at the same table as the rest of the browser makers, they decide to turn up without any pants on.

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JDX
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HTML5-DRM isn't a killer feature until everyone stops supporting Flash/Silverlight and relies on HTML5. I can't see that happening very soon so to most users this isn't a reason to dump IE - only when lack of HTML5-DRM is an issue will they do that.

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"only when lack of HTML5-DRM is an issue"

As far as I am concerned a lack of functioning DRM (HTMLv5 or otherwise) will never be an issue for me. Ever.

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Never mind that...

Where's the option to disable those annoying browser tabs gone? It was a killer feature (sure you can get plugins for ff/chrome etc but they don't really work.)

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Basically, another bloody version

So there's now essentially two different versions of IE11 to worry about instead of one. And since they're both (in Microsoft's strange world-view) IE11, we can't even use Microsoft's own strange "[if gte IE 10]" trick to detect them.

Since IE9 I've actually found myself sticking up for Internet Explorer, because it really has turned into a fairly decent modern browser, but fucking hell they're making it difficult for me.

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Roo
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Gimp

Re: Basically, another bloody version

"Since IE9 I've actually found myself sticking up for Internet Explorer, because it really has turned into a fairly decent modern browser, but fucking hell they're making it difficult for me."

Brave man ! You know that you are doomed in the long run, right ? :)

Gimp mask because your cause seems to be an exercise in masochism rather than standing up for fair play, you clearly like pain.

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JDX
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Re: Basically, another bloody version

Though I was mistaken above, IE10 is different in Metro and Desktop mode already so it's already 2 versions (at least).

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Re: Basically, another bloody version

IE11 on Windows 8.1 is really fast, even on a low specced old Atom Netbook. Never liked IE10 but 9 was pretty good and they have been far more standards compliant since IE9, still too slow for daily use in my opinion though.

However, there seems to be a major difference between the pure developer side of Microsoft (ASP.Net, Azure, EF, SignalR, etc) who are all doing really good work and being as open as possible, and then there's the gimps who are stuck in Microsoft's past who continue to score own goals for the company and shoot themselves in the face repeatedly.

XBox One AlwaysOn debacles, no IE11 for Windows 8, IE11 on Windows 7 half-arsed, the list goes on. Someone needs to points these idiots to the Dev departments to see how they should be operating.

You get people to move to new OSes and platforms by making it worth their while with features, not by making it as painful as possible for them to stay where they are!

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Re: Basically, another bloody version

@Roo, 15:58

"your cause seems to be an exercise in masochism"

Yup. More commonly known as "being a web developer".

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Megaphone

Same old nonsense

It's just the same typical nonsense from Microsoft. They're pushing this tiled (TIKFAM) interface on us whether we like it or not. I think someone at Microsoft had been watching too much Star Trek TNG - everything there is touch based.

One of our customers upgraded from windows 8 to 8.1 and found that IE11 didn't work with her ancestry.co.uk website properly. In previous versions of IE, when a site didn't work, you could click the "compatibility view" button and often that would cause the website to be rendered correctly. In IE11, you have to go to a menu and add the site to the compatibility list, something way beyond what most users are capable of, let alone dream of doing.

But then MS have always done this. They make the most arcane, complex and buggy software on the planet and nothing about windows 8.1 is going to change my mind about that

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Joke

Re: Same old nonsense

My keyboard is touch based!

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Well HTML 5 hasn't been ratified yet

Has it?

Rhetorical question.

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