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back to article Bitcoin burglar bags a million bucks

An Australia developer who goes by the name of “Trade Fortress” alleges a million dollars worth of Bitcoin has been stolen from his virtual wallet. Trade Fortress made the allegation to ABC Radio, which reports he's “over 18 but not much over” and doesn't know the whereabouts of the 4100 bitcoin. With Bitcoin exchanges currently …

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Just how the theft was perpetrated is not known, which is worrying inasmuch as bitcoin is supposed to be ever-so-secure.

And likely is, unless you happen to leave your wallet lying around where others can find it.........

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Let me see if I've got this right...

A nameless person says something which doesn't exist isn't there any more because someone anonymous removed it?

(I wanted the invisible icon, but it's gone).

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Re: Let me see if I've got this right...

What he said ^^^

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Let me see if I've got this right...

The Aus Gov are attempting to bring in rules for Bitcoin, is it a ploy to attempt to legitimise the currency ......

Anonymous person-Government Tax employee

If it can be stolen, it becomes tangible.

Either that or this person is called Walter Mitty

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Re: Let me see if I've got this right...

But those are *my* long numbers!!

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Monopoly can be a hard game ..

Specially if bankers cheat, having young anarchic "developers" controlling funds, they think are real, stolen by nobody, and then cry, well sorry but ripping off system, living off others is harder than that, if bitcoin was truely worth anything, underfunded schools/universities/Hospitals/Governments/Crims would have students/Slaves doing it by hand if need be (a joke), let alone computing power, if they could use it as cash, not to mention Larger IT concerns ..

He only wants to try to legitimise Bitcoin by claiming a robbery, when I just think bitcoin was made to get idiots to work for nothing, probably using a spambot thingy, diguised as Bitcoin "fountain", and the greedy little buggers pay for the equipment, but only my guess ....

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Re: Monopoly can be a hard game ..

...bitcoin was made to get idiots to work for nothing...

It's not even that. It's just a pyramid scheme for the 21st century. The guy who invented it, and the early adopters never need work again. The rest of the chumps who joined the party late, will never make anything from it.

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Re: Monopoly can be a hard game ..

"if bitcoin was truely worth anything, underfunded schools/universities/Hospitals/Governments/Crims would have students/Slaves doing it by hand if need be"

Doing what by hand?

I'm also unclear how "truly worth" is different to "worth" - sounds like a No True Scotsman - Bitcoin evidently is worth something right now, and that's no less "truly" than anything else.

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Re: Monopoly can be a hard game ..

Early adopters who take bigger risks getting higher rewards doesn't make it a pyramid scheme - by your logic, investment in a company is a pyramid scheme: the early investors may never work again, whilst those who join the party late may not make anything from it.

I'd argue that even at the current sudden all time high, Bitcoin as an investment, whilst it won't make you rich, offers better returns than investing in a bank or most shares. Of course it is also a high risk, but then you were happy to ignore the even higher risk that early adopters took.

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Re: Monopoly can be a hard game ..

The early adopters didn't take a high risk. They were minting coins at a fantastic rate, producing hundreds a week, all only worth about 25c. No risk involved. Plus nobody would try and steal your wallet since what they'd get wouldn't be worth the effort involved.

Now years later those early adopters can reap the rewards, not in cash because if you try and offload that many coins onto the market you'll cause another crash, but in services.

The reason nobody can find Satoshi Nakamoto is that whoever he, she, or they is/are, they have long retired to a tropical island with their millions.

Hell, I could have bought a couple of Bitcoins a year ago off eBay for £50, sat on them and then redeemed them for £300 a week ago...or £600 this week...or £1200 next week. If that isn't the sign of a Bubble I don't know what is. The only difference is that unlike other Bubbles BitCoin can burst as many times as it wants, because it will always reinflate. This (and greed) causes most people to hang on to their coins as the value keeps increasing. The only winners with BTC are those with the sense to sell up and get out when the price is high.

God I wish I'd bought those coins now.

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Re: Monopoly can be a hard game ..

I agree that bitcoin probably isn’t as such a Pyramid Scheme. That said just like a Pyramid scheme the later adopters are very likely to lose. Bitcoin if anything seems far more like a stock market bubble ….. which sooner or later is likely to burst leaving the investors with nothing.

As an aside I can’t see what bigger risks the early adopters took? If my understanding is correct there are two ways of obtaining bitcoin either, buying or mining. Both of which were cheaper for the early adopters. E.g. early buyers could get bitcoin for less than a dollar, and mining could be done on a home PC drawing single phase electricty.

Bitcoin seems to be in effect very much like buying a derivative where the value is determined solely by the belief system of the market but with neither a tangible product, nor service to sustain the price.

The fundamental problem with bitcoin (also I know argued to be its advantage) is that unlike money as such it has no powerful sponsor. This would be the basis on which I would categorise it as a stock market bubble rather than currency (or indeed crypto currency).

The question then is how many people will keep exchanging bitcoin … actually probably the more apposite question is why people will exchange bitcoin. It’s main Raison d'être appears to be its use in illegal markets.

I guess what you then have is a situation where a semi legal powerful sponsor of bitcoin might emerge and justify its use as currency. But that said the various legal organisations will oppose that sponsor. So the bubble bursts when the law wins.

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Re: Monopoly can be a hard game ..

If you can trade recognised tender for bitcoins but cannot perform the reverse, how is it even attractive for an investor?

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Re: Monopoly can be a hard game ..

'The reason nobody can find Satoshi Nakamoto is that whoever he, she, or they is/are, they have long retired to a tropical island with their millions.'

Or he's gone back to his day job at the NSA, data-mining all the transactions.*

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Re: Monopoly can be a hard game ..

The risk is whether Bitcoin would ever amount to anything now - it's easy to say it's easy money now with hindsight. And yes, some people certainly got lucky, any maybe that's unfair, but then that's life. It's annoying, but not an argument against Bitcoin.

"Satoshi Nakamoto" no doubt is or are rich, but then, this wasn't money for nothing - they did create something that would have been technically difficult to create, that (AFAIK) hadn't been done before, and something that took off. I'd have far more criticism/envy for people who say, create a social networking site years after everyone else does it, with no apparent means of making money, but somehow end up being the ones to make billions :)

"If that isn't the sign of a Bubble I don't know what is. The only difference is that unlike other Bubbles BitCoin can burst as many times as it wants, because it will always reinflate."

So it's definitely a bubble, except that it's nothing like a bubble.

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Re: Monopoly can be a hard game ..

"As an aside I can’t see what bigger risks the early adopters took? If my understanding is correct there are two ways of obtaining bitcoin either, buying or mining. Both of which were cheaper for the early adopters."

It was much cheaper, hence a far bigger chance of rewards, but they also had the far bigger risk of whether Bitcoin would go anywhere.

Consider - I'd argue that even now, Bitcoin is nowhere near its full potential. It's use now is fairly minimal. If it were to take off, the full market cap could be far greater. So whilst you won't make as much as those early adopters, you could still make far more than investing in more traditional means (especially with today's poor interest rates). So are you buying as many Bitcoin as you can?

If you are, then great - and I too am wishing I heard about Bitcoin sooner. But if you're not, then why not? Because you think there's a risk of losing your money? Then how is that different to the people who heard about Bitcoin one or more years ago, when although the potential rewards were higher, the risk was also higher, with Bitcoin far less well established?

If you think "sooner or later is likely to burst leaving the investors with nothing", then even the early adopters won't have anything. Unless they bought low and sold high, in which case, it's making money just like on the stock market - it's easy to say it's easy money with hindsight. Is it a bubble now? These recent sudden increase suggests there will be a correction. But it's worth noting that with the previous "bubble", although there was a sudden drop in April, the average price still went from around $10 to $100.

As for its use, even without it being adopted as a currency by a country or other large organisation, I can see it having a use on par with Paypal - making it easy to send individuals/small businesses money, as well as do international transactions, without relying on unregulated 3rd parties, Visa fees, Bank fees and so on. And that's still quite a substantial use. Regarding illegal use, curiously after the main black market trading site got shut down, after a short term drop (order of a few hours), the price recovered and has shot upwards.

"But that said the various legal organisations will oppose that sponsor."

In what way?

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Re: Monopoly can be a hard game ..

"The only winners with BTC are those with the sense to sell up and get out when the price is high."

I disagree. I have needed to buy things (legal things) on the internet recently. I was able to buy bitcoins, and then use them to buy the items I wanted. Which have since been delivered no problem.

So, for me, I used a bitcoin service and I am happy with the result. I'm not a speculator, but I've 'Won' in the fact that I've got a service that was easy and nice to use and I got what I wanted.

Bitcoins isn't all about making money, ya know.

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Re: Monopoly can be a hard game .. @Mark

You argument on the risks the early adopters took for the potential rewards is frankly spurious. Also the argument to some extent is lost in the extensive advertisement for bitcoin.

That said you also go on to ask in what way law enforcement organisations might oppose the various vested interests in bitcoin, obvious answers to date being:

1. Closing silk road

2. Locking the bank accounts of the Mt. Gox exchange

3. Bitcoin foundation ‘Cease and Desist order’

Next …….

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Re: Monopoly can be a hard game .. @Denigor

Note that two of the above mentioned law enforcement actions were for 'Unlicensed money transmission'.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Monopoly can be a hard game ..

"The rest of the chumps who joined the party late, will never make anything from it."

Plain rubbish. It's risky, but the opportunity for huge returns is currently sky high, compared to other investments! Look at the numbers. Swap the hundreds for tens of thousands if you wish:-

If you put £100 in a *month* ago, you would now be able to sell for over £200.

If you put £100 in August, you would now have £300.

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxGBP#rg90ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv

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Re: Monopoly can be a hard game ..

"If you put £100 in a *month* ago, you would now be able to sell for over £200.

If you put £100 in August, you would now have £300."

goes with , Baldness cures, Lead into gold, Enron & other schemes, the "late investors" have to talk it "up" so other idiots buy it from them, otherwise their bubble pops ....

If u really need a investment I have some very magic bit of crap here, I let u be a "Early adopter", @ ground floor price ....

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Re: Monopoly can be a hard game

@Mark

By Hand = Mining bitcoins, bitcoins are worth something to idiots who invested in them, Conmen always shut loudest when they need to leave town, because if they can't sell them to other idiots, they worth NOTHING !!

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No insurance against theft? Getting crime recorded is the first step into pressuring the police into doing something about it.

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Anonymity provisions?

I'm sorry, but Bitcoin doesn't have anonymity provisions, only pseudonymity ones. The whole system is based on every transaction being made public and tracked by many people

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Flame

If the customer has a complaint he should complain to the Ombudsman and the Regulator. Oh, wait...

If you give your money to a stranger on a street corner to look after, don't be surprised if they aren't there next week to give it back.

The concept of BitCoin is fantastic. But this type of incident is EXACTLY the reason governments introduced banking regulations many decades ago. To clean up the cowboys.

And what's a "teenager" doing with that much money anyway? And if he's this naive, I'm quite sure some blonde bimbo golddigger would have relieved it from him in the not too distant future anyway (sexist, I know!)

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Maybe he invested £50 in it back in 2009. http://news.sky.com/story/1161340/bitcoin-man-buys-flat-with-forgotten-fortune

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Anonymous Coward

"some blonde bimbo golddigger would have relieved it from him in the not too distant future anyway (sexist, I know!)"

What, like Internet Explorer? :)

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Anonymous Coward

A modern day Raffles

has made off with the boodle. All nicely anonymous and negotiable?

And no shinning up walls, or picking locks required.

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scam time

Sounds like a bit of a con - no pun intended. I seem to recall some time ago some coins were stolen and by means of looking at the protocol itself its possible to track where they went.

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Anonymous Coward

Following the link...

...at the bottom of the "so soz" message takes me to the login page where I'm informed it's the Most Secure Wallet.

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???

Now then, now then, could this be a scam?

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Re: ???

NNo way! His nigerian brother is the minister of finance! Must be kosher!! 1!

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