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back to article Fury as OS X Mavericks users FORCED to sync contact books with iCloud

Apple has removed from Mac OS X Mavericks the ability to directly sync an iPhone's contact list with its owner's computer – forcing the user to instead upload their address book to Cupertino's cloud and download it to the local computer. Anyone who updates to the latest release of Apple's desktop operating system, version 10.9, …

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Nanny knows best

Are they charging the iSheep more for this superior user experience? They should - they are the most gullible in the business and can be easily convinced this is better for them.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Nanny knows best

Yawn. The Bling envious rise early today.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Nanny knows best

Well, earlier than the anonymous Apple shills, anyway....

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JDX
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Re: Nanny knows best

Perhaps you should look up the meaning of the word shill. The whole point of Apple users is they support Apple without Apple NEEDING shills.

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Re: Nanny knows best

The days of iPhones being the bling phone are long gone, it's the most common phone around here.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Nanny knows best

Oh the irony when you post as AC.

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Anonymous Coward

@AC 10:29

Is it ironic? I always reply anonymously to anonymous posts. Or were you talking about your own post?

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Anonymous Coward

@JDX

They may not need shills. That doesn't mean they don't have shills. Anyway, come up with an alternative, you're no help just saying shills is innapropriate....

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Nanny knows best

But I though Android was owning iPhone in sales numbers and popularity?

Fandroids, wanting to have their cake and eat it since 2008.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Nanny knows best

Who mentioned Android? Oh, it was you. Because it's impossible to be critical of Apple for any other reason. Apparently.

(But, android is owning iPhone is sales numbers and popularity. So, what was your point exactly? It looks like you haven't got one....)

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Re: Nanny knows best

Better bling envious than penis envious.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Nanny knows best

Another anonymous fandroid halfwit strikes again. The insinuation, oh great stupid one, was that iPhones are common, which would indicate that they are the dominant handset. However, we are constantly being told my monobrow toting fandroids that Android is the dominant platform, although the main area of domination appears to be landfill. John, may or may not be a fandroid, it's a reasonable however to make such an assumption, numbnuts.

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Trollface

Re: Nanny knows best

Obvious troll is obvious.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Nanny knows best

@John Devoy,

"The days of iPhones being the bling phone are long gone, it's the most common phone around here."

Same goes for Android I suppose, and there's faint glimmers of interest in WinPhone.

For the best left-field, way out and non-conformist mobile phone experience it's BlackBerry all the way for me :-)

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Re: Nanny knows best

Not over here, there are nearly as many Windows Phones as there are iPhones, both of which pale into insignificance compared to the Android phones.

Interestingly, at home the following has happened with the kids / partner:

Mac user 1 : Windows Phone 8

Mac user 2 : Android

Windows user : iPhone

The iPhone user is only using it, because it was a free hand-me-down (my old 3GS). She doesn't care what the next phone is, as long as it is cheap (under 100€).

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Anonymous Coward

@Regtard

No need for all the name calling. You need to chill the fuck out, insulting people's intelligence doesn't make you sound clever, just bitter and way too invested in a discussion about phone operating systems and sales.

You should get out more.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Nanny knows best

US Attorneys are Very Mad

As you probably know by now, you cannot sync without iCloud in Mavericks

To say it another way, I missed a court date this morning because of relying on non-iCloud syncing (all handled very graciously because Judge was an Apple user whose child just told him about issue) .

So, because my clients are international, and because some demand that I do not use iCloud, and because I am fearful as well, sync is now a BIG issue.

Apple took it away in Mavericks without telling anyone. You cannot sync by cable or wifi or bluetooth except by using iCloud. All of my accounting info depends upon that syncing ability to ease the pain. Solution provided by Apple is to downgrade to Mountain Lion. That solution will require a complete reformatting of my hard drive as it requires a TimeMachine Restore. Of course, that is not easy. Apple was not going to guarantee that my accounting information could be rolled forward.

I have spoken to the IOS and Mavericks groups, and now am trying to determine if there is a proper way to use Server to restore this function. Server advertising states that there is, but it does not seem easy to set it up, and there is no confirmation that it actually will work yet.

There are now 1,000s of apple support blog messages, and the story is troubling. See http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/07/apple_mandates_icloud_contact_syncing/

In our world, this seems to be a lawsuit in the brewing. If you are interested in one, my team is definitely looking at it now.

....

I just got off the phone with Apple.

We got Mavericks Server to work with the iphone and the local mac (1 MacBookPro and 1 iPhone). To do so, we set up CalDAv and CardDAv servers and tested them under several circumstances (change IP number, etc). It seems to work but server must stay on for syncing, and setup is a bit awkward, but doable.

You must 'administer' the server, but that is not a bid deal either - simply you have to learn how like you had to learn how to use iTunes.

So, for $20 and 3 hours, you can get a local sync facility to work that you can carry with you. When you are at a coffee shop, you must be on wifi with both devices, but it should work too. No guarantees like having a cable, and you must be a bit worried about security because you are turning on a server, but at the office it is workable.

Sync time is not immediate - but is within a few minutes.

Call Apple - ask for enterprise solution assistance (you have to fight through mavericks support, then IOS support, then second level support at IOS, then first level support at Enterprise, then describe that you just want what you had with Mountain Lion for sync, and the wire itself is not required. Then they will take about an hour to help you set it up.

They said that the CalDAv and CardDAv servers provided were obtained from open source and improved, but basically stated that others could work too. I wanted an All Apple solution to show that Apple did not need to take the function away, but made the decision and failed to tell anyone, and thereby caused damages in terms of time...... You can see where that takes you/us.

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But...

Given that email is transmitted cleartext between mailservers, won't your email contacts be identified by default by the nsa/gchq watching emails fly by past their fibretaps? Whilst this iCloud insistance isn't ideal, does it make a material difference?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: But...

does it make a material difference?

Well, it would for me, since forwarding company info such as mail to a third-party server directly contravenes company IT policy and could have me sacked.

Still, I don't use crApple products, and am happier about that decision every day. I know a few colleagues who will get an unpleasant surprise when IT come knocking at their virtual door, though.

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Re: But...

"Well, it would for me, since forwarding company info such as mail to a third-party server directly contravenes company IT policy and could have me sacked."

Er, remind us how you send email messages to business contacts *outside* your organisation then? Do you have a magic way that doesn't involve 'third-party servers' for every single one of your external business email contacts? I'm guessing: unlikely.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: But...

"Given that email is transmitted cleartext between mailservers" I suggest you try SSL between client and server, with TLS between servers.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: But...

Er, remind us how you send email messages to business contacts *outside* your organisation then?

I can choose which mail I send, and obviously don't send confidential info outside the company. If all my mail is forwarded through a third party mail server on the way to my mail client I have no such control. That, surely, is obvious?

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Re: SSL / TLS...

SSL is obvious. But you're at the other party's mercy for whether TLS is enabled.

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Re: But...

For a company who claims of having "no interest in amassing personal information about our customers", they make it a little difficult to keep personal information personal.

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Re: But...

"I suggest you try SSL between client and server, with TLS between servers."

While that IN THEORY prevents snooping the message as it is transiting between servers:

- most MTA's do not enforce certificate chain validation of the certificate provided by the remote MTA, so spoofed, unsigned SSL certificates will generally be accepted

- that doesn't address the e-mail being stored outside your network border, which will invariably be in clear text (very few servers encrypt on disk, Lotus Notes being the only one I can think of and even then it's not on by default)

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It's not only iCloud. You can also give your data to Google

While the move is really annoying (although zero impact to me, I already used iCloud), Apple forces you to sync your contacts with any online service, not only iCloud.

Google is one such service. So you can very well sync your iPhone's contacts with Google.

Which is not half as bad as syncing your whole life with Google, as you do when you sign in on an Android phone :-)

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Re: It's not only iCloud. You can also give your data to Google

Yes, but you can CHOOSE whether to synchronise with Google or not. Obviously not so with an iS**t device

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Re: It's not only iCloud. You can also give your data to Google

You don’t have a clue what is reporting back on your phone currently. At least as a open source project we have some idea what’s going on, because we can see the source!

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Re: It's not only iCloud. You can also give your data to Google

No you do NOT have to sync your iPhone with iCloud.

The only thing gone with Mavericks is the ability to sync your contacts and calendars with a Mavericks running Mac locally (via USB or WiFi).

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Re: It's not only iCloud. You can also give your data to Google

I'd be happy to have access to the "Google Play Services" source. Unfortunately, there is nothing open about them. So I have to wonder what idea you have of what is going on with it!

And, you might not have noticed, Google's business is about making money from your personal data (through ads).

Regarding iOS, you do not have to sync your contacts/ calendar data with anything.

But most people want to (and there are may good reasons for that).

I was just using Google as an example. iOS supports contacts/calendar syncing with iCloud, Gmail, Exchange, Yahoo, Outlook.com ...as well as ldap and CardDav/CalDAV.

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Re: source

Lets see the source for google's gmail app then, or their code for contact and cal syncing? got anything for the Play store? that seems like it's got it's fingers in all of your phones pies, you've got source code for that right?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: It's not only iCloud. You can also give your data to Google

Yes, but you can CHOOSE whether to synchronise with Google or not. Obviously not so with an iS**t device

You clearly haven't taken your aura anywhere near any iOS device. All you need is a groupware account that supports ActiveSync, use the "Exchange" account setup and there you go. Problem solved, and no worrying about an OS that was designed by a company whose main income is derived from selling your information.

Oh, sorry, you forgot about that? Tsk tsk tsk.

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Re: It's not only iCloud. You can also give your data to Google

Well it's not just Google or Apple who want to herd you into their walled gardens. Microsoft are doing exactly the same to people using Windows 8.1. It's very difficult using Windows 8.1 and avoiding setting up a Microsoft account that will sync all your stuff, calendar, contacts emails with Skydrive. In fact, if you do not do this you pay the penalty of not being able to use Skydrive on a Windows 8.1 PC.

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Re: source

No i dont. But I do for Cyanogenmod which im running currently does come with any of googles closed source stuff as standard.

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Mushroom

Re: source

I'm assuming a missing n't after does.

The reason your mod doesn't come with google's closed source stuff is because they're not allowed to include it, as clearly stated in the cyanogen wiki.

Did you install any btw? or is your solution to not having available source to forgo functionality?

Finally, maybe you (Bill the sys admin), took the time and had the skills to carefully check through your cyanogen source before installing, but unless you're a cyanogen dev I really doubt that,

I suggest that like just about everyone else who visits cyanogen, you installed it because either it was an easier update route than going through your phone's manufacturer, or because it removed all the crap that your manufacturer decided you'd positively, absolutely love to have on your phone, that you won't or (way way more likely), can't determine it's shenanigan free yourself, and that since installing it you've added odds and sods of closed source anyway because you needed the functionality.

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Re: It's not only iCloud. You can also give your data to Google

@RobO

This is my biggest complaint with Windows Phone 8. If it weren't a work phone syncing with the Exchange server I'd be forced to sync with the Live/Skydrive/Outlook cloud. There is absolutely no built in way to use the USB for syncing contact information without logging in from both the phone and PC although I understand that there is an app on the WPstore that allows you to use USB.

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Win8.1 @Rob0

This sounds like an intro in AA meeting: I'm using Windows 8.1 with Microsoft account.

I haven't told Win8.1 to sync or not to sync anything with Skydrive, and guess what - Win8.1 doesn't sync my "stuff, calendar, contacts emails with Skydrive". It does seem to - by default - backup Metro settings, list of installed metro programs, IE favorites and such, and all those can be switched off. My Outlook calendar, contacts or emails are not in any way connected to Skydrive and certainly aren't sync'd there.

I'm still perfectly able to use Skydrive in the same manner as Dropbox or Google Drive - ie. free internet storage that is handy to share files with others.

Prove me wrong if you can.

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Re: It's not only iCloud. You can also give your data to Google

a) "your phone" what phone are you referring to or at least which os?

i do have a clue what "my phone" is reporting because i can see all outgoing traffic and from which apps.

b) so im guessing that you are talking about android being an open source project which it isnt truely?

yay its open source, it works so well for truecrypt

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Re: It's not only iCloud. You can also give your data to Google

What on earth are you talking about? Apple has removed the local syncing capability from iTunes. That's annoying. You can sync your contacts through any third party online service, or indeed use your own server if you wish. no-one is forcing anyone to use iCloud.

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Anonymous Coward

It's the way of the world, nothing surprising here anymore.

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Anonymous Coward

Just quietly watch your privacy erode and say nothing. It's just the way things are, we know what's best...

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Anonymous Coward

Thankfully..

.. I built my own personal Cloud (well, and company), and that works too for sync, without the data export risk.

If I had to choose I'd prefer iCould over Google, but that's personal opinion. One of them sells hardware, the other one already is in the "gathering data and selling it on" business. But, of course, Apple never stated it would do no evil :/

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Thankfully..

Seriusly? Has Google ever gathered data and sold it on? Where can you sign up to this buy this data?

Banks, card companies, supermarkets, airlines, ISPs - they sell on your data, don't know of any instance where Google has.

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Re: Thankfully..

Apparently bidding up to 50p per click to show an advert when someone searches for "lolcats" is the same as selling on your data.

Yeah, I don't know how either.

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Anonymous Coward

I switched to fruux a long time ago for my address book, calendar and todos. Syncs between my Mac and iPhone, just like iCloud but also supports my Android tablet and allows me to sync/share data with people on other machines, which works great for my company. They are a german company and big open source contributors, so I much rather trust them than Apple or Google.

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Thanks for the fruux link

I hadn't heard of that. I wish I could give you more upvotes for being the single worthwhile comment in this whole pointless thread of partisan jibber-jabber.

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Re: Thanks for the fruux link

There's also ownCloud, and you can add the CalDAV and CardDAV accounts on the Mac, iPhone, and on the Android phone (although you'll have to find suitable clients, there are some on f-droid.org).

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Re: Thanks for the fruux link

It's probably interesting to know that the sync technology in ownCloud -and many other products- is made by fruux, too. They are behind the open source project SabreDAV (https://github.com/fruux/sabre-dav/). Another reason why I support them. :-)

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Anonymous Coward

Slippery slope.

This year a fingerprint scanner on the iPhone was "innovation".

How many more iterations of iphones/ipads until it becomes the default/only way of accessing the phone/app store etc?

Both have similar unknown quantities when it comes to your personal data.

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