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back to article A post-Snowden US had better not SQUEAL about Chinese cyber-spying

The US can't complain about Chinese cyber-espionage in the wake of the ongoing revelations from Edward Snowden, according to a leading US cyber-intelligence expert. Bill Hagestad, a US Marine Corps lieutenant colonel turned cyber conflict author and researcher, takes the view that all countries spy electronically and we should …

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Bronze badge

Well

Thats a change of tune. There was a lot of complaining from the US about china and their spying. Until of course their operation was exposed and now we are all supposed to just get over it.

I feel really sorry for snowdon because I am sure when he is forgotten about he will be disappearing in some way or another.

I am interested in the speed of 'adjustment' by the US. They went nuts about cyper attacks on themselves and pointed at china. They got away with writing viruses to attack iran because it was iran. Then they got exposed but said it wasnt that bad. When more proof came out they said its only meta data and properly looked after. So on with the 'it aint so bad' followed by 'well ok yeah we did it' and now 'just get over it'.

No wonder they wanted snowdon so badly. He has shafted them big time with their own big stick.

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Re: I really feel sorry for snowdon

I really feel sorry for Kerry. When you're trying to find a needle in a haystack, the last thing you want is the local peasantry chucking on more hay.

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Anonymous Coward

Dear Marinetard

There is a world of difference between spying and mass surveillance. Not everyone is happy to live in your glorious STASI land.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Dear Marinetard

get over yourself while you're at it Mr MarineTurd i mean MarineTard

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Anonymous Coward

While they are at it

Before demanding that Russia extradite Snowden, perhaps USA would tell the Russians why it did not send Russian "traitors" as criminals back to Russia.

While on about terrorism they could explain their IRA policy via a vis that great ally, England or even apologise and extradite the remaining terrorists/criminals.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: While they are at it

I've always found the USA's new view of terrorism vaguely amusing, but I also like to remember their stirling efforts in all things geopolitical.

They give money to the IRA to buy Semtex from Libya who then use the funds to blow up an American plane.

CIA aids replacement of popular but neutral Cambodian government resulting in the rise of the Khmer Rouge.

CIA aids Laos rebels by providing planes to transport their number one cash crop, heroin, where is the closest collection of people that want heroin? Vietnam! Full of US troops with a horrible job and a lot of time on their hands. Queue more US Heroin addicts in Vietnam then the USA.

CIA and UK over throw popular leader in Iran, end result unpopular western backed government over thrown and an eternity of animosity.

CIA backs Afghan rebels, once USSR withdraws US says "cheers guys, later" country descends into chaos...

We could go on, but US Intelligent services don't seem very trust worthy or very good at looking at the big picture...

The other thing that does make the whole "Red Menace" thing the US have been trying to push via a number of their proxies (Google, et al) is the scale. China had to use spear phishing to hack google mail boxes, NSA just logs in.

It's like I said, everyone knows everyone else has their hands in the cookie jar, which is fine as long as you don't get caught. Problem is, the USA haven't been caught with their hand in the cookie jar, they've been caught running a protection racket for cookies at the cookie factories.

** Note I tend to only remember bad things, so there are doubtlessly lots of good achievements...

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Roo
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Re: While they are at it

"While on about terrorism they could explain their IRA policy via a vis that great ally, England or even apologise and extradite the remaining terrorists/criminals."

I tried asking some War on Terror fans about that one in the wake of 9/11. Apparently supporting the IRA was absolutely fine as far as they were concerned.

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Unhappy

Re: While they are at it

<assorted examples of US CIA dodgy deals>

You missed the Reagan administrations for bank rolling Afghan rebels back in the late 70's and 80/s

One of their star students was a former Middle Eastern party boy turned holy warrior called Osama bin Laden.

That also worked out so well.

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It's rather like saying...

The World Trade Towers were just two buildings- get over it.

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Re: It's rather like saying...

I think you meant:

The World Trade Towers were just two uninsured buildings- get over it.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: It's rather like saying...

"The World Trade Towers were just two buildings- get over it."

LOL,,, they did it themselves as an excuse to start wars,,,they can't forget that,,,after all that's how they make /waste the most money.

So think me.

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Oh but that would require the United States to understand hypocrisy... something they've failed to do since the birth of their nation.

I'm not holding out much hope.

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Anonymous Coward

All countries capable of spying, do so. When a country is caught spying, other countries will cry foul. In the end, everyone will go back to spying on everyone else.

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South Park to the rescue

FRANKLIN

I believe that if we are to form a new country, we cannot be a country that appears war-hungry and violent to the rest of the world. However, we also cannot be a country that appears weak and unwilling to fight to the rest of the world. So, what if we form a country that appears to want both?

JEFFERSON

Yes. Yes of course. We go to war, and protest going to war at the same time.

DICKINSON

Right. If the people of our new country are allowed to do whatever they wish, then some will support the war and some will protest it.

FRANKLIN

And that means that as a nation, we could go to war with whomever we wished, but at the same time, act like we didn't want to. If we allow the people to protest what the government does, then the country will be forever blameless.

ADAMS

It's like having your cake, and eating it, too.

CONGRESSMAN 2

Think of it: an entire nation founded on saying one thing and doing another.

HANCOCK

And we will call that country the United States of America.

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Headmaster

Re: South Park to the rescue

<Real english grammar nazi mode on>

Completely off topic, and I know it's an extract from South Park, and I appreciate that it's just yet another example of the normal weirdness that is the American dialect, but when will Americans learn that the verb 'to protest' normally needs to be followed by a preposition like 'against' or 'about' before the object. To say 'some will protest the war' has a similar effect on my spine as fingernails on a blackboard. It's protest AGAINST the war or protest ABOUT the war, or even "I protest!" Please will they learn to speak proper...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: South Park to the rescue @Pen-y-gors 15:12

"<Real english grammar nazi mode on>"

Is that the usual failure when correcting others, or is it connected to your name? The first failure, I mean.

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Anonymous Coward

one rule for all, except me

Well, you can rest assured that the US will complain about Chinese spying. Because let's face it, the US are more of a do-what-I-say rather than a do-what-I-do kind of country.

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Hey, no worries!

Some governments spy on their friends, some individuals plant webcams in the neighbours' kids' bedroom and bathroom - get over it. It's all perfectly normal and above board.

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Boring slides

I hope the presentation was as fascinating as the topic deserves. I found the slides rather boring, however - except one that I found curious.

I wonder what the context of slide 24 was. The slide title says, "Official Statement of Russian Federation Regarding Internet Policy". The only remotely related sentence in the slide is what looks like a headline from a western newspaper. There are two screenshots of what looks like Twitter feeds. On the left we see an apparently genuine account of "President of Russia," in English (nothing on Internet policy, though). On the right is an obviously fake but seemingly *much* more popular Russian-language account. It is obviously fake - multiple (intentional with a hint of crudeness) typos including the account name ("Persident Roissi") and handle ("KermlinRussia"), tweets include informal slang that a government source would hardly use, and the contents certainly do not look appropriate for Presidential communications (I am fluent in Russian).

Without attending the presentation, it sure looks like Lt.-Col. Hagestad did not do his homework while preparing the slides - inexcusable for a "leading expert", IMHO

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DJO
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"China is becoming an economic powerhouse and its strategy of stealing intellectual property is contributing to this,"

I wonder what country gave them that idea?

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Strange Game

What I don't understand is that the power grabbers spend thier entire lives trying to control people, and for what? It's all gone once they're dead, and they missed out on the chance to have a fun time.

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Anonymous Coward

There is a difference...

...between scrutinizing cyber activity for security reasons and hacking enterprise to steal intellectual property. Perhaps the details are too complicated for the masses of sheeple to comprehend?

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h3
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Re: There is a difference...

If America had paid Britain for the intellectual property that it stole when it first started then it would likely have never got to be the economic powerhouse it is. All China is exactly what they did. (Which is why I think it is fine). They ignore anything they don't like anyway. (See Antigua). Everyone should get a grace period of 200 years same as they had.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: There is a difference...

Hi Matt!

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Re: There is a difference...

@h3 - China has been a state for about 3500 years, their 200 year grace period is long over! ANd after 237 years really the USA should have learned civilised behaviour.

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Re: There is a difference...

Civilised behaviour? Given that all the best nations do it, spying on friends* is clearly endorsed by civilisation.

*"nations have no friends, only interests", Winston Churchill, one time British PM.

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Anonymous Coward

Both are just plain wrong

"scrutinizing cyber activity for security reasons and hacking enterprise to steal intellectual property"

Why is it that there is nothing fundamentally wrong if its committed by the state & its so wrong when a individual or company does it?....

I just don't get that part.

Perhaps as you say the details are too complicated for the masses of sheeple to comprehend,,

this sheeple just don't get it...

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h3
Bronze badge

China will win (For a hundred years at least).

They say it is for security reasons but in reality it is so any kind of diplomatic discussion is like a game of poker where they alone can see everyone else's cards.

They lied that any of the stuff ever existed so there is no reason whatsoever to believe that they are not also lying about this.

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US will continue to complain... why wouldn't they?

Since absolutely nothing has actually come from US complaints about China, etc spying. I've always thought of it as purely a public way of saying "hey guys you need to be better at spying because it's way too obvious to us. We know you are going to be spying on us, but when you get caught so obviously we are going to publicly shame you for being so lame".

Seriously does anybody think that if you found another country spying on you, that you would intentionally keep it secret (other than in a Churchill keep it quiet that we broke the codes way)?

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Anonymous Coward

While the stuff about Huawei seems to be related to spying, haven't most of the complaints from the US in regards to China been about cyber-attacks rather than spying?

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Headmaster

Granted...

All this talk of 'Merkin hypocrisy is perfectly fair, and I'm not one of these "let he who is without sin cast the first stone types" but we in the 51st state should remember that dear Winston handed out Enigma machines after the war to our friends in developing countries so that they had secure means of communication. That's one of the reasons the Bletchley operation was so secret for so long - we didn't want our poor relations to know we could see their dirty knickers.

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Deflection

If you wanted to justify additional funding for your agency, and deflect attention from your own activities, it would be convenient to nurture, even talk-up, the impression that a rogue foreign power was responsible for a significant proportion of digital eaves-dropping which was in fact largely due to your own crafted activities.

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Bronze badge

Oh for pity's sakes call a spade a spade. A major part of what the ignorant - such as Kerry - call "terrorism" is more accurately called "pterorism", acts of pteror committed by pterorists, descendents of pterodactyls, that cause pteror to bureaucrats - acts such as camping in a public park as a form of protest, acts such as sitting in a public place and getting pepper-sprayed by some dork of a plod.

Reading the salacious emails of some desperate housewife to her squeeze helps in combating pteror much as putting condoms on crocodiles in Kakadu National Park, Northern Territory, prevents shark attacks in Death Valley, Nevada.

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