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back to article Z30: The classiest BlackBerry mobe ever ... and possibly the last

It can't be very helpful for a manufacturer to launch a new phone amid speculation that the device could be its last. With $1bn written off on its little-loved predecessor the Z10, and the future of BlackBerry so uncertain, the new Z30 has been given a very low-key launch. And yet it turns out to be a very attractive phone …

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WTF?

Here we go again...

'The most powerful, classiest BlackBerry ever - and it's aimed at grown ups

Price: From $600 unlocked RRP'

It's aimed at RICH grown-ups. I don't know anyone who would spend that kind of money on a mobile and if I did, I'd have to say they were fucking lunatics.

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Re: Here we go again...

"It's aimed at RICH grown-ups. I don't know anyone who would spend that kind of money on a mobile and if I did, I'd have to say they were fucking lunatics."

So is the iPhone 5S but I don't see you moaning about that? *cough*fanboi*cough*

There was a saying regarding Saab years ago. It's only until you crash the car that you realise why you spent so much on it. It's the same with BlackBerry. Until you use one properly as your day to day phone you then realise that it's a quality phone and quite possibly the best handset on the market. The App Store lets it down, but the lack of Netflix and Instagram don't bother me because I'd rather watch a film on a proper TV, and I'm not a camera whore.

The only thing that pisses me off about this is that I bought the Z10 a few months ago. If I knew there was a bigger phone coming out I'd have waited for the Z30. But the Z10, to me, is the best phone I've ever used. No regrets here.

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Re: Here we go again...

"It's aimed at RICH grown-ups. I don't know anyone who would spend that kind of money on a mobile and if I did, I'd have to say they were fucking lunatics."

Are you suggesting that people who spend that much on an iPhone or Samsung are lunatics too?

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Re: Here we go again...

Of course it's aimed at rich lunatics....so ?

It's a very juicy market, the same one apple has been milking for years...

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Nonsense.

My iPhone 5 cost a lot more than that and I'm perfectly sane.

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Re: Here we go again...

Tooooooo Late to make a difference.

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Re: Here we go again...

*backs away slowly*

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Def
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Re: Here we go again...

If it really was as cheap as $600 in Norway it'd sell by the bucket load. As it happens though, $600 is cheap for a phone over here. I just bought my girlfriend a Lumia 1020 for a little over $1000. I could have saved a couple of hundred dollars by ordering online, but she would have been off travelling again by the time it arrived.

It was a small price to pay to not have to hear her complain about her old phone ever again. :)

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Re: Here we go again...

@Ketlan - that's about the same as any similar specced phone if you buy it off-contract, so unless you consider all smart phones to be only for "RICH grown-ups" then your outburst is odd.

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Re: Here we go again...

On amazon.co.uk it's £470. The Note 3 is £516. The iphone 5S is £647 for the 16gb model. It is expensive but there is obviously a market for big, high quality phones.

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Trollface

Re: Here we go again...

You might be too young to remember them but did you ever hear of a company called Apple? They tried launching an expensive new mobile telephone called an iPhone 5S. What a disaster! In fact, it was one of the biggest mistakes in American corporate history. Apple stubbornly priced it far too high and at between $649 and $849 they just could not shift any of them. Millions of phones sat unsold in warehouses across the globe and the word "Apple" became synonymous with failure. It was a fatal blow for the company. Their share price crashed by 99% when the first sales figures were released for the model and the company was declared bankrupt soon after. Shareholders lost everything and all employees were laid off. The disastrous launch of the iPhone 5S is still taught as a case study in business schools to this day.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Here we go again...

Quite. Personally I wouldn't spend $600 on a phone when a mid-range model does more than I need, but to claim you don't know anyone with a high-end Android or iPhone suggests you have a limited circle of acquaintances.

Anyway, Blackberry is a brand I associate with people who drive cars that cost £ thousands more than a 'good enough' alternative, so what difference a couple of £ hundred to them?

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Nef

Re: Here we go again...

So you don't know anyone with an iPhone?

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FAIL

Re: Here we go again...

So you know no-one who has an iPhone ? (they spend that directly or as part of a 2 year contract)

Wow you are unique. Oh and loads spend that on the latest Samsung or HTC One etc....

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WTF?

Re: Here we go again...

WTF - let me send you a message under your rock there, yes people do have that money and we buy iPhones.

hence the problem with BB at the moment.

Some times i think the telegraph is right after reading comments in this place.

(We really need a facepalm icon)

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Re: Here we go again...

iphones cost that much for a new 5s. (£549 in the apple shop)

Top end androids cost around this, or more.

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Re: Here we go again...

AC@11:36:"Anyway, Blackberry is a brand I associate with people who" were given it by their employers and don't need to worry about what it cost, which isn't the headline price thanks to tax deductions and possible bulk purchases!

I'd also associate it with a lot of people that hate their phone. Couldn't possibly say whether my admittedly limited exposure to BB owners reflects the whole population and I know absolutely no youngsters with one but 2/3rds of the adult owners I do know hate theirs. The other 1/3 don't love it though ;)

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Re: Here we go again...

"The only thing that pisses me off about this is that I bought the Z10 a few months ago. If I knew there was a bigger phone coming out I'd have waited for the Z30. But the Z10, to me, is the best phone I've ever used. No regrets here."

That's the thing with any modern technology. There is *always* something bigger/better/more powerful just around the corner. If you wait for the next big thing, you could end up waiting forever.

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Facepalm

Re: Here we go again...

We have a facepalm icon.....

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Stop

Re: Here we go again...

One troll well and truly fed, I am afraid

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Re: Here we go again...

"It's aimed at RICH grown-ups. I don't know anyone who would spend that kind of money on a mobile and if I did, I'd have to say they were fucking lunatics."

Hardly, I'd say for what it does it's a bargain! Considering my last three phones were an XDA Exec, Nokia E90 and Nokia E7, all of which cost around the £600 unlocked, getting this for £475 when it's only just come out is hardly a wrench.

I've had mine for about a week now and absolutely love it. As someone who's always had a full physical keyboard that takes a little getting used to, but the soft keyboard is superb and it's improving as it learns how to write. The way everything fits together seamlessly is great, as is the granularity that you can choose which things alert at what time. Definitely the best phone I've ever owned and the biggest jump in improvements from one phone to another.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Here we go again...

The iPhone isn't going to vanish in a puff of debt at any moment.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Here we go again...

Apple's support is the best, you get a good 2 years of updates and an take it to a shop.

For some people that is worth every dollar. Buy cheap buy twice has always been a motto I've agreed with largely.

Of course I'm no longer an Apple phone owner since I got bored with the OS. But then I've never had a problem with a phone.

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@Longrod_von_Hugendong Re: Here we go again...

You mean like this one? Seems appropriate as well that I use it now.

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not enough

Sort of reminds me of the HP Pre3, a bunch of folks said similar things about that phone (which I use daily) when it finally got into the hands of users even though it was canceled. They said *this* was the phone that should of been the launched a long time ago - not the Veer, maybe not even the Pre2 etc etc..

I was always *absolutely* convinced the Pre3 wouldn't make a dent in anything especially having a launch date so close to an Apple product, the idea was suicide really(turned out to be literally I suppose). WebOS needed a ton more work. I did feel that at the time(before the axe fell) that Pre3 would just be another step in the journey.

BBOS sounds like it works alright, just missing the good selection of native apps. I don't know BB like I know WebOS - but I suppose it's not hard to guess the Z30 isn't going to change BB's fate.

I'd be pretty happy with just a good web browser, photo viewer, and video player along with basic messaging and phone calls. Unfortunately even the Pre3 is faltering for me in most of those categories these days.

Hoping a 64G Note 3 comes out and that turns out to be a good device for me, never really used Android (or IOS) before - but I do like the idea of having a lot of knobs and buttons to use to customize, one of the things a lot of users seem to hate about Android.

I thought about Windows Phone, and BB as possible platforms but I think my use of Linux as my desktop means Android is likely going to be the best bet. I don't see a future for Ubuntu phone or firefoxOS either (Canonical+Mozilla have been consistently pissing off their user bases for the past couple years at least, can't imagine them any more successful in mobile).

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Re: not enough

> Canonical+Mozilla have been consistently pissing off their user bases for the past couple years at least

Canonical I have to agree. What has Mozilla done though?

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Re: What has Mozilla done though?

Not fixing the default-to-US-letter paper bug for over a decade perhaps:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/firefox/+bug/10910

Because the 90% of the world that is not the USA is not important to them?

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Re: What has Mozilla done though?

> Not fixing the default-to-US-letter paper bug for over a decade perhaps

Hmm. Not being a Letter man myself I can sort of understand this being an annoyance but it seems like a tiny issue in the grand scheme.

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Re: not enough

mainly the freakishly frequent release cycles that seem to constantly break things in an effort perhaps to stem losses to Chrome. I've never used Chrome for more than a few mins myself, but have seen tons of comments from users that have switched back and forth and the impression I get is if the users want something released often they go to Chrome(instead of wanting firefox to be more like Chrome - I haven't really seen anyone make the comment that they want Firefox more like Chrome -- they just go use Chrome), there's another set of users who just want something stable.

There is the firefox extended release thing, but apparently that has it's own flaws (which I read up on why Ubuntu does not use Firefox ER).

I suppose I could switch to something like Opera, not sure how often they break stuff, though been so used to the firefox plugins and how things work it would be a difficult switch. My Ubuntu 10.04 LTS systems are currently entombed on Firefox 20.0, I don't see that changing any time soon, I've taken reasonable steps to mitigate security risks. Before Ubuntu 10.04 LTS desktop edition went end of support the firefox updates were coming quite frequently and breaking things on a regular basis. There are still some things that are broken in firefox 20 but at least I don't feel concerned about new things breaking.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What has Mozilla done though?

It's symptomatic of the mindset of Mozilla.

Printer manufacturers like US Letter because it is shorter than A4 and so the theoretical pages per minute and toner yield come out higher. But browser makers really should know that most of the world uses ISO sizes; after all, they are supposed to be standards compliant.

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Re: @thomanski

It is not a "tiny issue in the grand scheme" if you have to support users who find printing broken after each update, and it is symptomatic of an organisation that, because it is not on their patch, don't care.

But what is most irritating is not them getting the paper size wrong on fresh install, but that each update REVERTS MY BLOODY CHOICE! That is an MS-level of arrogance, to reset my settings without asking me, and for that they deserve a serious bollocking.

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Re: not enough

I see. Works fine for me though.

I use Firefox mostly on Windows (at work) and on Debian Wheezy, the latter as a FF backport since it's just a tad too ancient on stable, and I haven't really encountered any issues.

Well, to be perfectly honest I frequently have issues with Java (which I need to remote into work, don't ask, and so have to en/disable all the time) and Flash but then I've never blamed Firefox for those since it's not really better in Chromium or Opera, which I occasionally use as well.

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Re: @Paul Crawford

Well, for what it's worth I've gone to the trouble of adding my votes to both the Ubuntu and upstream bug trackers.

> and it is symptomatic of an organisation that, because it is not on their patch, don't care.

Personally I think Mozilla are a well-meaning org taking on a number of good projects and overall doing a pretty good job while of course having more on their plate than they can do and having to prioritise.

Yes, it looks like they're continuing to fail on this but it is if I'm not mistaken a Linux only issue, it relates to printing which I think large numbers of users do not do from the browser beyond a boarding card PDF. I've never even noticed this myself (ok, mainly because I rarely print), so perhaps that's why it's not as much of a biggy for the vast majority of users and Mozilla as it is for you and some others.

...

Shouldn't adding this to user.js work, even across version updates since it's in the profile?

// Change default paper size from US-Letter to A4:

user_pref("print.postscript.paper_size", "A4");

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Anonymous Coward

BIS Bull

Now only if BB gets rid of the BIS induced delay in email (15 mins) and makes it open (maybe even for a small unlock fee), I will happily punt my iPhone to wife and buy this beauty.

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Re: BIS Bull

The BBOS 10 phones no longer connect via BIS...

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Re: BIS Bull

You still have to have a BES10 if you want SMIME though. Which is just plain shitty of them.

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Such a shame it's probably the last

I would have probably bought a Q30

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To late

If they had released this a year ago it probably would have saved Blackberry.

As for complaining about a $600 price tag - what price do you think high end smartphones go for? I wish my iPhone was that cheap.

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software is great

i played with the q5 and apart from the rather cheapy biuld, and the ludicrous pricxe i really liked it. But knew at that point, that i and quite probably noone else would ever buy one.

BB were about 3 or 4 years too late.

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Outrageous Smartphone prices

With a Bill of Materials of around $200, to charge purchasers $600 is an abuse, doubtless BB is following Apple's greedy ways.

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Re: Outrageous Smartphone prices

Agree.

Here's an article on the iPhone BOM

http://blogs.wsj.com/tech-europe/2013/09/30/how-much-does-it-cost-to-make-an-iphone/

They are making large profit from these devices.

As it stands, I have an older BB phone which does the phone part and e-mail very well. It is also very cheap phone so not that bothered about the rest of features - I do have a Chinese Android 4.2.2 tablet which does those other things very well and is a nice 10" screen.

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Anonymous Coward

Why the downvotes?

BB is trying to become a niche "enterprise" phone, but in these hard times enterprises will have a very hard time justifying paying so much more for this device vs. the equivalent Android handset. Or, god forbid, an iPhone. Both are now much closer in terms of features than four years ago, and when you add up the cost of the required BES upgrade (or you abandon any illusions of privacy and let someone else handle it), you'll need a lot of "enterpriseness" to justify the price difference.

The Z30 is perhaps what BB should have launched three or four years ago if they wanted to stay relevant in the smartphone market. Yes, "smartphone market" without segmentation, not "business smartphone", "consumer smartphone", "security agency smartphone" or "White House smartphone" segments. This segmentation trick started at GE's when Jack Welch decided to kill any product that was not on the top three of its market segment. Suddenly, all of GE's product portfolio became top tier just by refining the definition of the "segment" where it was competing.

The device itself can apparently compete very well with Android on its own terms, yet it costs two or three times as much? Surely there are business out there that can't live without the "enterpriseness", but how many? Where the comment about price is wrong?

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.. and all they need to do to sell boat loads is produce an Android version ..

It's completely incomprehensible - and utterly deplorable, if you're unfortunate enough to be a shareholder - that the Canucks didn't do that 4 years ago. And at this point, really: what have they got to lose?

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Holmes

and all they need to do to sell boat loads is produce an Android version

Right, because that works so well for HTC, does it?

I'm not sure that the world needs another 'me too' Android vendor.

And considering the abysmal state of affairs regarding security in Android, it's probably not a platform that BB wants to sell to it's (mostly security conscious( customers.

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Anonymous Coward

secure mobile with enormous capability

With Miracast and USB access to peripherals from the Secure WorkSpace and

BES encryption, better radio and antenna, this beauty looks to me like the perfect candidate for personal computing, desktop alternative, and flexible in vehicle IT. Best horse for the course. Bar none.

We all have details we'd rather not see read as plain text. I'm hopeful this is the start of a comeback.

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Anonymous Coward

Re Android compatibility

It's worth noting that not all Android apps will work on this, since although Android is Open Source, Google put incentives in place for 3rd party Android developers to use closed APIs in the Google Play Services client library. This is a strategy by Google to prevent the forking of Android. If an OEM ships a device running a forked version of Android, Google withhold Play Services from them, as we saw with Acer when they were thinking of making a device running an Alibaba Android fork.

http://developer.android.com/google/play-services/index.html

This situation is probably why Samsung phones come with several Samsung apps that appear to duplicate the function of Goggle's android apps (in areas such as voice, translation, app store, email, and calendar etc.) - it's a testing of a 'Plan B' should Samsung feel the need to fork in future.

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How can it be the best Blackberry ever..

When it doesn't have a keyboard.

The real star in the current line-up is the Q5.

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