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back to article Don't crack that Mac: Almost NOTHING in new Retina MacBook Pros can be replaced

Apple's new MacBook Pro laptops with Retina displays pack more punch than ever before – Cupertino described last year's 15-incher as the "best computer Apple has ever made," and this year's Haswellified model improves on it. But when it comes to taking them apart and fixing them, the new designs are more locked down than ever …

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It's not a PC, this is for real humans, not hack-a-whacks.

If you are worried about support, AppleCare is by far the best-rated support in the history of computing.

Jeez. Anything to bash a Mac for a headline...

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I don't think Applecare can replace a knackered battery, or offer a swift RAM upgrade eh? Problem with the trackpad, and just out of warranty? Of course, sir, we will happily fix that for you. Would you like to pay £1000 with Visa or Mastercard?

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Of course in the real world, inhabited by the real humans you seem to contend this is aimed at, even the most dense and unfocussed realise that they can extend the life of their expensive hardware by replacing ram or replacing the harddrive at relatively little cost, both to themselves - as the cost of a new speedy large drive is significantly less than a new laptop - and to the environment - as they don't simply throw out an entire computer just to buy the latest new piece of shiny, overpriced kit from the world's most effective tat marketer just to get an incremental capacity upgrade.

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It dissuaded me

I was honestly considering one, as the display is really nice, but looking at this, I realize it's not such a good idea.

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All the prices are on the web. None of them are £1000 even after your AppleCare ends.

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Anonymous Coward

> It's not a PC, this is for real humans

Calm down my dear, we're just talking computers here. Not trying to sell your organs or anything.

> Anything to bash a Mac for a headline...

What do hamburgers have to do with it?

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"All the prices are on the web. None of them are £1000 even after your AppleCare ends."

My netbook's LCD cable failed while I was in Vietnam last month. I showed it to the desk clerk at the hotel, he got on his motorbike, four hours later it was fixed, £18. Just saying.

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It's not a PC, this is for real humans, not hack-a-whacks.

Don't go making excuses for shitty, corner-cutting, penny-pinching design. This is a "premium" product with an associated price tag. I'm sure they could afford some screws.

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LDS
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It's funny...

... if it's a Surface Pro 2 to get a rating of 1 it's because it's crap, etc. etc... if it's an Apple product then it doesn't care, really, it's for humans, etc. etc....

Anyway I guess we'll have to get used to this kind of engineering, it's cheaper and Chinese drones can be trained more easily to glue parts together than assembling them carefully (and slower) using more expensive structures. And if a repair costs you a lot, the better, they will sell you a new device.

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"It's not a PC, this is for real humans, not hack-a-whacks."

It is a "PC", it just runs a different OS to most others.

"If you are worried about support, AppleCare is by far the best-rated support in the history of computing."

Despite your hyperbole, it's just expensive insurance, and in countries with statutory warranty protection, of diminished importance for everything but on-site servicing of desktops. The ability to repair your own equipment, especially when that expensive insurance policy has expired, is a completely different thing.

While we're gushing about support, my personal experience with Dell's premium support has always been so good that I can't see how Apple's could have been better.

"Jeez. Anything to bash a Mac for a headline..."

Despite the exaggeration the headline appears to be reasonably accurate?

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Well if it goes wrong, Apple will either repair it or replace it. Of course I have to acknowledge you need to have AppleCare to get the most responsive support, but a friend of mine also had his MacBook replaced under standard EU warranty rules.

I am now on my second replacement iMac27". The first one was replaced after the screen went blotchy down one side (which I only realised afterwards may even have been my fault and due to drying clothes on a radiator next to the machine).

The second one got recalled twice due to two supplier part design problems. A bad model of Western Digital hard drive and the second time, a bad NVIDIA Geoforce graphics card. For the second recall, as they had so many machines to to deal with, they got a third party repair shop to come and collect it. The repair shop did a really bad job and warped the internal chassis putting the display back in. Apple were extremely apologetic and have replaced the entire machine a second time. Now I have the latest upgraded spec, super thin iMac. They even threw in a SuperDrive because the new model iMac doesn't include one as standard but my old model had one (I now have three keyboards and 3 mice, as on each occasion they didn't ask for those back either!)

My point is simply you aren't left on your own with no support. If Apple can't repair your machine they will replace it and recycle the old one, so why sweat it ? I know many people like getting under the hood and want a machine they can easily access, but if there is full service support, the reasons for doing so are much reduced.

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Anonymous Coward

No, its not for real humans. Its for fanbois like you who want to defend Apple to the death.

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re: ac 20:25

'What do hamburgers have to do with it?

FYI McRib is back! Saw the sign today, makes me happy...

;)

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This is England: the Sale Of Goods Act implies a term into all contracts for consumer goods wherein it must be reasonably durable (i.e. considering all factors including the cost), and which permits small claims cases against the company for up to 6 years after the date of purchase. A £1k laptop ought to last 5 years plus. Any less with careful use gives rise to liability for Apple to either repair, replace, or pay a partial refund based on reasonable expected lifetime less a deduction precisely pro-rata for usage, e.g. 5-6 years less however many you had it for.

So all this Cupertinian non-repairability nonsense just doesn't work in the English legal system. They'll be the ones footing the bill if people pursue their legal rights.

Alternatively, ensure you pay for it on a credit card because the CC provider has joint liability with Apple.

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Re: re: ac 20:25

>FYI McRib is back! Saw the sign today,

> makes me happy...

Are you sure it's back? The local McDonalds just pulled it late last month after offering it for about 3 weeks :/

Anyways, even if they replace the Mac, what about the software on them, particularly those published by Popcap/EA and has the nonsensical 5-activations limit? I lost one activation for Bejeweled2 when I changed Macs (alright, changed from a Hackintosh to a proper Mac Mini), and I'm not pleased at the fact. I'm going to lose another one for just wiping my Mac Mini while upgrading to Mavericks.

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This is England?

I think you'll find it applies not just to G.B. but entire UK. Actually it's an EU directive that UK accepted. Applies in most of EU and some European countries not in EU. Probably though the Laptop only has to work for 2 years. Though claims for losses / injury caused are valid up to 6 years.

Apple already got in trouble in Italy for selling so called "warranties" for inside the two years. They must have been studying PC world/Currys and Argos.

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Boffin

Re: It dissuaded me

Same here ... utter retarded ...

One thing the guyz in Cupertino have forgotten is that a big part of their customer base is composed of successful and highly trained IT guyz - these they have lost with this move.

And as for Surface (1&2), they are crap for other reasons ...

I guess I will have to go the Hackintosh route ... this is ridiculous because European Union is considering legislation to fight planned obsolescence.

The sad part is that this comes from the company who was the first, to my knowledge, to have dismantle instructions in the manual of a laptop. No warranty-voiding screws ....

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Re: It dissuaded me

"this is ridiculous because European Union is considering legislation to fight planned obsolescence."

OSX Mavericks works on all Apple machines from 2007 and forward. That's not bad considering. Unfortunately on the hardware side, they are now planning the inside of laptops down to the last millimetre. Every component is shuffled into a position where it can sit butted up against other components, with no gaps in between. They have design software including algorithms to solve some seriously complex simultaneous equation for mapping the placement of components 3D space. When they want to make that Laptop that bit lighter and thinner, the software "tells" them "if you need this space to increase the size of the battery, you have to remove connector x, y, z and have a soldered connection" or "if you are not going to save space by not including a chassis for the battery where you screw the battery in place, you are going to have to glue it in." That is how we have devices as slim as the MacBook Air on the market. Serviceability from here on out, is a secondary priority.

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Re: screen went blotchy, bad hard drive, bad NVIDIA Geoforce graphics card

Exactly the kind of quality that speaks for itself, "bashing" needs not apply.

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Re: screen went blotchy, bad hard drive, bad NVIDIA Geoforce graphics card

You beat me to it Ramazan!

A "great produce and service" that has failed at least 3 times in how many few years? That's amazing. I've had a driver problem on my home build PC, that was fixed by an update. I've had a FSB error that was fixed by changing a setting in the bios. I've had zero hardware faults. Not sure the same can be done with a mac? Same went for my HP laptop. That even got Ram upgrades. But my HP laptop had more replaceable parts, it's only I dropped it and cracked the one thing that's vital on a laptop, the motherboard. :P

If it breaks less to begin with and is serviceable, where is the problem?

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"It's not a PC, this is for real humans..."

Guess you think rows of uniform drone creatives lined up for inspection with glow-apples facing front and lah-tay cups to the right are "real humans".

Guess you are one. (Glow-logo flasher, that is, not real human).

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Re: screen went blotchy, bad hard drive, bad NVIDIA Geoforce graphics card

1) None of the machines failed, even once.

2) The screen went blotchy probably through the ingestion of water laden air, which I detailed in my post. Why ignore that? Apple still replaced the machine, which by rights they could have refused to do. So that is pretty damned good service.

3) The other two incidents were not due to the machine failing but recalls due to part-supplier recall notices that are themselves reputable companies - Western Digital and NVIDIA. If you think any amount of Apple QA can eliminate such risk of product recalls on sub-components as complex and self contained as a HDD and a video cards you are living in fairies and trolls land.

The failure on Apple's part was due to the bad service provided by an Apple nominated service company. I was annoyed about that and Apple promptly sought to put it right without fuss. When after they had had the machine for a day, they determined it would take a week to effect a repair and they phoned offering me the choice of either waiting, or receiving a new machine with the latest spec. In my book that is a pretty good reaction and a customer can expect little more.

4) I have simply related my experience for my pennies worth, it establishes good customer service has been provided for one case. A new £2k machine is more than adequate compensation for the 1 failure in quality of service I encountered.

TechnicalBen and Ramazan, you have taken a sample size of 1 and extrapolated it as a comment on the quality of a company selling many millions of units. Do you understand why that argument lacks rationality?

Reading comments like the above truly makes me feel sorry for any company that has to supply service to the general public. I would personally find it difficult to deal with such a void in rationality and reasonableness.

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Warranty is usually not important. Assuming you are in, and bought the device in, the EU or Scandinavia, especially the UK or Norway you should stand on your Sale of Goods Act rights and demand a repair or replacement on the grounds that goods of this class are expiected to have (in Norway at least) at least a five year lifetime. Of course after the first year or so you can't expect the seller to bear the whole cost unless you can demonstrate that the good were not of merchantable quality but you certainly should not have to pay the full cost of replacement or repair. Perhaps I'm just lucky to live in a country (Norway) where the law is on my side and suppliers take their responsibilities seriously. For example I bought an high end AUS motherboard, AMD 64 bit CPU and a good chunk of RAM from Komplett in Norway, Three years later it failed and I couldn't figure out what was wrong, Komplett have all my order history on line so I simply logged in, found the order and submitted a failure report and asked what, if anything they could do.

After a couple of emails to clarify what might or might not be wrong they said send it back. A week later I had an email saying they had sent the full purchase price to my bank account.

Needless to say I a good chunk of it at Komplett buying a replacement.

And of course here is the usual disclaimer: I am only affiliated with Komplett as a satisfied customer.

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Pint

Have a beer on me.

The post is required, and must contain letters.

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Thumb Up

Where did you stay?

You should give the hotel some publicity by telling us where it is and what it's called.

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Gimp

Real humans can change memory, batteries, keyboards, displays, and hard drives too. There's no excuse for not making devices fixable apart from building-in obsolescence.

I honestly think companies making unfixable shinies should be sued for corporate negligence or at the very least taxed Brazil-style for each unfixable item.

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..in the real world...

Yay for hardware that's make to last, to be repaired, and upgraded.

Yay for manufacturers who provide parts lists and service manuals.

Definitely not a Apple fanboi.

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Hoe

Your right it's not a PC, that I could upgrade, downgrade, swap out parts or simple take it apart for curiosity's case, that is what REAL HUMAN's do, at least the intelligent ones, man would have got nowhere if he expected a support desk to help for every hurdle.

Maybe we shouldn't bother disecting DNA for the future advancement of mankind?

Just imagine if every person had your attitude to this matter...

"No I am sorry Mr Einstein I can't help with your theory, this is 118 I can give you someones phone number?"

I wonder just how many medical advancements have come from disecting things, Apple might have 5,000 of the brightest engineers on the planet, but to presume, asume or expect that nobody could possible equal or improve on that is just niave, then to actively prevent them from doing it, shameful.

#I'llNeverOwnALockedDevice

#Freedom4Hardware

#I-Buy-I-Own

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Hoe

So your saying a big multinational corporation complies with warranty laws? SHOCK HORROR.

*Just to enlighten you, ALL COMPANIES HAVE TO FOLLOW THE LAW.

Why are so many Mac fanbois so... oh wait, they will buy this stuff, don't worry question answered.

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@ SuccessCase

".........a friend of mine also had his MacBook replaced under standard EU warranty rules."

Pleased to hear that Apple has caught up with the fact that they have to operate according to local law.

Of course Apple Store has always been subject to the Sale of Goods Act in UK but, apparently, not always acted accordingly. Friend complained that a few years ago he returned a defective iPod to Apple Store where he bought it, just outside warranty and the best they would offer was a small discount on a new one.

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Re: re: ac 20:25

That is outrageous and cannot be legal, who is going to take them to court over a game(s) worth a couple of quid though?

Anyway if you did, you'd probably get sued for infringing one of their pattents when you turned up to court in a suit. :)

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Hoe

Re: screen went blotchy, bad hard drive, bad NVIDIA Geoforce graphics card

I am PC user and I can't say the same, for many years I had escaped faulty hardware but building my new i7 this year I found I ad a part DOA MOBO which took some time to narrow down due to the nature of the fault.

It was annoying, very for about a day, then SHOCK HORROR I received the replacement board, swapped it out, returned the old one and slept very well every since.

I also replaced the antenna in one of my old Android phones which cost me virutally nothing, with Apple this would NOT be an option. Full Stop, not if's and but's, not I'm an IT engineer just send me a bloody HDD, NO, instead you have to do a FULL BACKUP then replace the machine.

Now let me ask you this, how many of you Mac uses who have swapped out machines for faults securely wipped your data from the HDD before it disappeared? And where is that data now? Oh you don't know? You SHOULD unless you deleted it SECURELY first!

A friend of mine needed to return a macbook air, he wanted to securely delete the data first but the 'GENIUS's" had to see the problem first so it couldn't, a secure wipe will take hours, so he had to go there confirm the fault, spend an hour trying to explain why he was going to bring it back later as they tried to claim if it left the building it would have to be retested on return, sigh.

*I don't believe that last story to be a very common one however and maybe a mistake by a so called genius, but still Apple should be encourraging this proceedure to be done first not preventing it.

Anyone who things data cannot be recovered from a failed HDD (no matter what failure) needs to check again, likewise anyone who thinks a one time full format is enough to prevent someone recovering your data needs to check again.

If you want to ignore all of the above I suggest you don't delay and start replying to all those emails marked SPAM too, especially the ones for BICLAY BONK asking for your CC Number and PIN, may as well skip the waiting in suspense part and have your money taken now right?

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Hoe

Re: screen went blotchy, bad hard drive, bad NVIDIA Geoforce graphics card

LOL, Must be WD's fault then, if Apple made HDD's they would never go wrong right?

Anyway how would you know it's the HDD, you didn't test it, they just told you it was that, maybe it was the Apple motherboard but that was too inconvinient to say.

Just imagine if you had the freedom of a PC you could KNOW SOMETHING, ANYTHING for sure, not just APPLE SAID IT.

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"Of course in the real world, inhabited by the real humans you seem to contend this is aimed at, even the most dense and unfocussed realise that they can extend the life of their expensive hardware by replacing ram or replacing the harddrive at relatively little cost, both to themselves - as the cost of a new speedy large drive is significantly less than a new laptop - and to the environment - as they don't simply throw out an entire computer just to buy the latest new piece of shiny, overpriced kit from the world's most effective tat marketer just to get an incremental capacity upgrade."

eh ?

when you want more power in your car, you don't throw it away and buy a new one do you ?

it's called upgrading - you flog it (and apples have the highest resale prices) and get a new one.

FFS. I realise apple didn't 'go with the flow' PC wise, but there are FA other consumer products which are upgradable - why the f&ck do you expect a laptop to be????

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Anonymous Coward

I've seen friends have Macs repaired by Apple out of warranty (and at least they will do it) - one had a hard drive replaced for about £10 more than I could even buy the bare drive for and they did the replacement, reinstalled the OS and advised on recovery using TimeMachine.

Another time they replaced the battery - yes genuine batteries are more expensive but only about the same that you would pay HP or someone else for an original battery.

Plus don't forget there are 3rd party options / repair shops.

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Anonymous Coward

People miss the point of Applecare - it's your statutory rights (of course) PLUS much more - for instances software support and quick replacement - none of this 3 week turn-around you get with other people.

Also Applecare Plus on the new iPhone gives accidental cover insurance - 2 instances of accidental damage over 2 years with a £50 excess I believe.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: screen went blotchy, bad hard drive, bad NVIDIA Geoforce graphics card

Hmm every heard of encrypting the hard drive - it's a standard feature of Mac OSX.

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Re: re: ac 20:25

particularly those published by Popcap/EA and has the nonsensical 5-activations limit?

I agree that this is complete crap, along with any other kind of online DRM bullshit. It has nothing to do with piracy, and everything to do with dictating what you can do with what you have bought.

However, companies are only pulling this shit, because people keep buying it. Just remember that computer games are toys, and there are some awesome toys out there that you can buy for less than the cost of a "AAA" title from EA, Valve, Ubisoft and whoever else likes to infect their toys with malware.

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FFS. I realise apple didn't 'go with the flow' PC wise, but there are FA other consumer products which are upgradable

[citation needed]

- why the f&ck do you expect a laptop to be????

Uhm, because every other laptop is?

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Anonymous Coward

Sales of Goods Act potentially covers you for 6 years though. My 3 year old iMac died and they replaced the PSU and logic board for nothing. Invoice said £672, but they covered it no questions asked.

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Anonymous Coward

Precisely.

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Re: This is England?

Hi Mage, you're quite right about the so-called "warranties", i.e. Applecare, being an unconscionable bargain and likely a transaction which could be mostly voided by the English courts.

However, I'm afraid it's nothing to do with the EU directive, this is the Sale of Goods Act 1893 as amended and reinterpreted through the common law. Additionally, the EU directive which mandates that goods must "conform to contract" for two years, isn't a maximum OR a minimum lifetime: directives never stop EU member states from having more extensive consumer protection, which the UK has, and "conform to contract" means "be reasonably durable considering the cost", which could mean it only need last for a day, if it only cost one Euro.

Claims for injury are barred after 3 years in the UK rather than 6 by the way. As for the above law applying throughout the UK, the "English legal system" is how we describe the law covering England and Wales, because Scotland have their own court system, who may do things differently.

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"It's not a PC, this is for real humans, not hack-a-whacks."

Changing a battery is for,"hack-a-whacks?" Wow, I guess some of the things they say about Mac users are true ...

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Re: re: ac 20:25

What's this now? I stopped buying EA products a long time ago because they have a long and cherished history of douchebag-ery. Sounds like nothing has changed.

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Applecare is rubbish support

Obviously you have never had really good support then. (The type that gets someone from the vendor onsite within 2 hours and probably a hotfix before the end of the day. (Old Sun Platinum or decent IBM).

It is worse even than HP having someone onsite fairly quickly with the part and them fitting it.

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Re: It dissuaded me

Most Apple stuff is used by Designers and Media type people. Followed by hipsters. The people using it for Pro use are a very small part.

Doesn't even have focus follows mouse (Which is absolutely needed to be efficient using it as a desktop *NIX).

The Mac Pro line is totally neglected. (People using it for Logic or video editing or whatever need loads of screens and power).

One application per screen it is designed for.

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Anonymous Coward

Both the Western Digital hard drive and the NVIDIA Geoforce card had been working fine on my PC for several years well past their warranty dates - yes the PC that I'm using for backup purposes is very old but still trouble free and still running on Windows XP

PCs running Windows normally do not need replacements by oneself even after years of running as parts can easily be replaced with no more than a screw driver.

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