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back to article Apple CEO Tim Cook v Microsoft's Ballmer: Seconds out, round two!

As The Reg reported on Thursday, Microsoft communications chieftain Frank Shaw went off on Apple in a near-thousand word blog post defending his company's beleaguered Surface and Surface 2. His fit of pique, while possibly a bit over-the-top, can be forgiven, considering that Apple CEO Tim Cook was unusually pugnacious during …

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Cook?

Sounds more like Gil Gunderson.

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The unspeakable in hot pursuit of the uneatable.

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Coat

The unspeakable in hot pursuit of the uneatable.

Strange how you make a link with Oscar Wilde on reading the article. As for me, I see those clouds and the clear road signs and I'm reminded of pure Excellence (courtesy of Dave Barry):

An excellence-oriented '80s male does not wear a regular watch. He

wears a Rolex watch, because it weighs nearly six pounds and is

advertised only in excellence-oriented publications such as Fortune and

Rich Protestant Golfer Magazine. The advertisements are written in

incomplete sentences, which is how advertising copywriters denote

excellence:

"The Rolex Hyperion. An elegant new standard in quality excellence and

discriminating handcraftsmanship. For the individual who is truly able

to discriminate with regard to excellent quality standards of crafting

things by hand. Fabricated of 100 percent 24-karat gold. No watch

parts or anything. Just a great big chunk on your wrist. Truly a

timeless statement. For the individual who is very secure. Who

doesn't need to be reminded all the time that he is very successful.

Much more successful than the people who laughed at him in high

school. Because of his acne. People who are probably nowhere near as

successful as he is now. Maybe he'll go to his 20th reunion, and

they'll see his Rolex Hyperion. Hahahahahahahahaha."

-- Dave Barry, "In Search of Excellence"

(mutatis mutandis, it should be obvious, eh?)

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>Strange how you make a link with Oscar Wilde on reading the article.

Well, Oscar Wilde was a part of the Arts and Crafts movement by virtue of being a critic, and an advocate of 'Honesty of Materials' which has filtered through the decades to influence designers such as Dieter Rams. Not only that, but Wilde once descended upon San Francisco and criticise the aesthetic choices and craftsmanship of the residents:

AMERICAN BARBARISM

The Apostle of Estheticism Exposes Our Sins.

INARTISTIC CRIMES OF COMMISSION.

The Aristocracy of Minna Street

Gratuitously Insulted by a Disquisition on Mortar.

-http://www.sfmuseum.org/hist5/wilde.html

But yeah, what Wilde's view of fox hunting have to do with Apple I'm not sure.

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P.S.

More Stories about Icahn-Cook, please... we could do with more food stories here.

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Happy

Re: P.S.

Food stories - Mmmm, Dell issues :)

Ballmer's now trying recipes from Rose Elliot's Has-Bean Book.

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Re: P.S.

That actually made me laugh out loud.

Un point.

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Happy

Re: P.S.

likewise

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Linux

I still have a hickups every time

I read: free Mavericks upgrade.

I haven't paid for an upgrade in decades*; and ,I think, neither should anyone else if it's tied to the hardware.

Apple stuff runs on Apple stuff which needs Apple stuff to run. They actually expect their users to pay for the packed software each iteration again. And they get away with it.

Wow.

*Not tied to anything. Linux.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I still have a hickups every time

That may work for you but most people at home / at work use Windows or Mac OS and traditionally you have always paid for the OS (as part of the purchase of the hardware) or separately (updates etc.). Apple have made the OS free (it was previously cheap) which will really mess with Microsoft.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I still have a hickups every time

Apple have made the OS free (it was previously cheap) which will really mess with Microsoft.

- Not until they allow people to run their OS on whatever hardware they want to run it on.

Unless / until Apple hardware comes down to a par with PC hardware sold by the likes of HP, Dell, IBM, etc (and lets face it, under that Apple logo, it is the same hardware), they will never seriously challenge Microsoft without releasing their software out of the walled garden (which release will never happen).

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Meh

@ AC 1159h GMT - Re: I still have a hickups every time

The tl/dr:

It will mess with MS? No.

The long one:

It will mess with MS? In which way? People downloading OSX for their homebuild Gaming rig? Companies not upgrading from Win XP to Win 8, but installing OSX on their office Dells? Production computers, still using NT4 now, will be running their proprietary controller software on Apple's OS?

Well, I'd say no.

The reason OSX is so nice and stable is that it has not to deal with anything other than approved Apple hardware. It's more like a Games console software, like Nintendo 64. You would not expect an N64 to run Mario Kart if you replaced the inbuilt OS with, let's say, a Playstation1 software, would you? Do you think that your Panasonic DVD player would work if you put an LG Software on it?

No.

Apple's software is tailored to exactly work with Apple hardware. That made it "Just works". If you look at it like this, it's a medium miracle that non-tied software like Windows or Linux distros work at all. The multitude of different hardware configurations that these OSs have to cope with exceeds anything that OSX would ever have to or can. OSX is an integral part of the Apple computer that you buy, it's got no value whatsoever on it's own. A bit like an upgrade for a Virginmedia cable router. It would not make your ADSL box suddenly understand DOCSIS, it would almost always not work, and if you could install it at all, it would brick anything but the right machine.

The next time your Freeview receiver get an OTA update, you should cheer and exclaim that, as it was free, this will be the end of SKY TV!

Yay!

Yay?

Meh.

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Unhappy

"Who remembers netbooks?"

I do. You could actually work on them.

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Re: "Who remembers netbooks?"

I have an eee pc 901 (linux variant, naturally) and would love to see something in this form factor with a little more umph.

i5, 8gb ram, 128gb ssd and a 9inch screen. No fancy graphics, just a portable workhorse.

Few usb 3 ports, an SD slot and hdmi out(and in?)

Oh, and not stupidly expensive!

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Re: "Who remembers netbooks?"

totally agree. Want to upgrade my netbook so I can write on the train or go on the web to read reviews/book tickets/check mail during edinburgh festival etc, but there's not much out there. I really liked the convenience and actual functionality of netbooks.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "Who remembers netbooks?"

I do. My wife uses her's almost non stop. We've tried an ASUS transformer tablet (which I love) but she prefers the netbook. Sure we could replace it with a surface but why when the netbook works so much better on a lap? An ultrabook would be too large width wise for her bag. I can see myself hunting for another once it finally dies.

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Re: "Who remembers netbooks?"

> i5, 8gb ram, 128gb ssd and a 9inch screen. No fancy graphics, just a portable workhorse. Few usb 3 ports, an SD slot and hdmi out(and in?) Oh, and not stupidly expensive!

So basically you want everything a laptop has - except the optical drive and GPU - but smaller? The cost of a higher density battery to give the same battery life in a smaller form factor probably costs as much as the bits you ripped out.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "Who remembers netbooks?"

This is actually quite a smart comment, remember he is preaching to the converted and the converted would have all rushed out and had themselves a net book when they first came out. They would have played around with it for a while, realised it wasn't as good as their Mac OS (if only through un-familiarity) and probably left it in a draw gathering dust, just about the same time as the Mac Book Air was released. They've now totally bought into ultra-book type laptops and the guy who runs the company they got those ultra-books from is telling them how smart they are for making the correct decision.

This is re-enforcing the choices of those who are wedded to everything Apple and when you're spending that much money on products, it's nice to be reminded that you've not made a foolish decision in spending the money.

I do have a MBP, I also have Win and Lin machines, I'm not buying into this pandering to my decision to buy a Mac and especially not buying that a company who rigidly and unflexingly follow one direction are any more or less capable than one who is prepared to change their strategy. I'm especially not buying it from a company who have had a habit of binning off products in the past. Server hardware, the Newton, whatever their games console was called, their non-pro laptop range, etc. etc.

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JC_

Re: "Who remembers netbooks?"

So, basically you want a Surface Pro with extra USB ports? There's a discount on the earlier model.

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ql
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Re: "Who remembers netbooks?"

"I do. You could actually work on them."

Quite - and ironic that far from being an MS idea, MS did everything ti could to kill them as they turned out to be most usable with a Linux distro on them rather than an MS OS.

I still have an Asus 701, (and a continulng mental image of That Picture), now running Wheezy, and it plays video via smplayer fanatstically well, displays my email and allows me to browse. Two friends have Asusi (Asuses?) of later vintage still running happily on Xubuntu and still can't believe how productive they remain. But with a monopolist demand for MS on them, they were best (from MS point of view) killed.

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Re: "Who remembers netbooks?"

I must have world's worst netbook (Elonex WebBook that was free from Orange) but I love it.

Dumped the hopeless crippled Ubuntu version, installed XP from external CD drive. Faffed around getting drivers that were NOT on the the Elonex site.

Terrible but real keyboard still better than any touchscreen virtual keyboard I've tried.

Just the best computer format yet.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "Who remembers netbooks?"

Think you need to use a Macbook Air then comment on that. The Macbook Air is basically the perfect netbook (and even runs Windows if you wanted) - fast, light, good keyboard, good screen - if anything you could wish for it to be cheaper but it's still a great machine.

I too had netbooks - they had the benefit of being cheap but were pretty cr@p at the same time - slow (long, long time to boot up etc.), poor screens, very limited.

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Re: "Who remembers netbooks?"

Quite. Other half replaced hers relatively recently with an 11.6" screen Core i3 subnotebook for about a third of the price of a Macbook Air, and was previously welded to an Aspire One 10" because you could actually *do stuff* with it.

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Linux

Re: "Who remembers netbooks?"

replaced my 8GB SSD Acer Aspire One 8" screen 512MB, Linpus (changed to openSUSE) £199, 2007 with an AAO D270 1GB RAM 10.1" screen 250GB SATA with XP, (£170, 2013) heaved out SATA and replaced with 120GB SATA £60 added 1GB £12 and openSUSE 12.3

Runs flawlessly and how much is an Airbook?

I didn't forget my history which is why I wasn't doomed when I repeated it

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Re: "Who remembers netbooks?"

"We've tried an ASUS transformer tablet (which I love) but she prefers the netbook."

Buy the official hardware keyboard for the Transformer? I will when they get cheap enough on Fleabay!

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Roo
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Re: "Who remembers netbooks?"

A lot of execs seem to have trouble remembering stuff that doesn't fit their current goals, I imagine it makes being a "leader" much easier.

Perhaps Tim was asking if anyone remembers them because he's planning on patenting the concept of a tablet with a keyboard.

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Re: "Who remembers netbooks?"

phear46 wrote:

I have an eee pc 901 (linux variant, naturally) and would love to see something in this form factor with a little more umph.

i5, 8gb ram, 128gb ssd and a 9inch screen. No fancy graphics, just a portable workhorse.

Few usb 3 ports, an SD slot and hdmi out(and in?)

Oh, and not stupidly expensive!

Closest I could find was the ASUS Vivobook S200, 11.6" touch screen, 3 USB including one USB 3.0, with both VGA and HDMI out for less than £400. It's only an i3, but plenty fast enough for everything I've tried. The only real concern is the fixed 4GB of RAM, but I've only hit that running VMs. There is the 13.3" S400 which can take up to 8GB, but I wanted the smaller form factor.

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Re: Quite - and ironic that far from being

Having never bought one, I can't speak to their usability on Linux, but as the tech stuck supporting them for the company in the XP variant (and being told to test upgrading them to 7) I concur they were a nightmare to support.

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Re: "Who remembers netbooks?"

You know what, I could happily put up with a 2 hour battery life, just something so I could move from plug to plug or look after me in a power outage. I mostly have mine plugged in anyway.

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Anonymous Coward

"I can't see a need for the thing,"

Neither can I. I do however see lots of desire for it.

"Anyone who thinks it's a game changer is a tool,"

Could be argued that it didn't change a game, but rather introduced a whole new one (that's political speak!)

"It's not going to revolutionize anything, it's not going to replace netbooks."

OK, I'll let them have that one... but remember that there's also the odd person who likes surface, so you can always find someone who's wrong about a new product!

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2/3rds running iOS7

I don't understand - 2/3rds of what, and how does that blow away the other guys. Certainly not tablets, phones, desktops, laptops, etc. Making market share claims in the face of Android seems a risky strategy, so he can't have meant that they have two thirds of any sector I can think of, except maybe iDevices?

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Re: 2/3rds running iOS7

That's exactly what he meant — almost 67% of active (ie, not long ago resigned to a sock drawer) iOS devices have been updated. Which I think is meant to be a roundabout way of saying you should buy Apple because you'll definitely get OS updates, for a while anyway, and you should develop for Apple because you can adopt the latest frameworks pretty much as soon as they become available.

Per http://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html about 70% of Android users now run 4.x so there are definitely more Android people — in both absolute and proportional terms — running the latest major version of Android than the latest iOS. The Android market doesn't tend to update as swiftly but at this point in the cycle that matters about as much as which phone manufacturer managed to ship colour screens first.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: 2/3rds running iOS7

And in other news, one-third of Apple owners left behind.

I know, my fault for not having retired a iPhone 3G and bought the latest one.

(but the Nokia was very affordable)

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Re: 2/3rds running iOS7

Another stat that makes no sense was Tim Cook's assertion during this weeks Apple presentation that tablet usage share was 81% Apple and 19% other devices. This makes little sense especially as IPad share of the market has fallen from 53 to 41% and is likely to continue falling as a large number of cheap Android tablets come out

So what does tablet usage actually mean? How it is measured? or is it just one of those numbers that corporations throw up to divert attention from real issues and actually has no real world consequence?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: 2/3rds running iOS7

" 2/3rds of what"

I think you just failed a Google interview question......

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Re: 2/3rds running iOS7

So, 2/3 of users installed an update that was automatically downloaded when they connected to Wifi/ Why is that impressive?

I'd like to go back to iOS6 - even with bold readable text, iOS7 is horrid.

Why does the keyboard keep changing between the old and the new? Looks like an OS cludge.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: 2/3rds running iOS7

And a pile of junk, Nokia did have to sell out right ?

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Usage share

Not that hard to work out. If you collect web server logs together and analyse them then you find that over 80% of mobile devices that accessed them were Apple iOS machines.

These are numbers generated by third party analytics firms over a wide range of web sites. The implication here is that a large proportion of Android devices are never used to access the web, which is kind of odd given that's what they are primarily designed to do.

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Re: Usage share

Yes it is odd. So either the figures are wrong or they have been mis-represented.

Now it is possible that iPad users spend a lot more time on the web, but its a huge discrepancy.

Not that google care. They get paid whichever way you access their services.

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Re: 2/3rds running iOS7

100% of iPads here are runnign iOS5 - but then they're both iPad 1s and never even got the chance to see how slowly they'd run on iOS6...

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Re: Usage share

"Not that hard to work out. If you collect web server logs together and analyse them then you find that over 80% of mobile devices that accessed them were Apple iOS machines."

The figures i've seen from the US show iOS mobile website usage between 65-70% - as the US typically shows the absolute peak of iOS usage for stats (60% iOS market share last I looked), i'd guess that would hint at it being a peak worldwide. Stats for Europe and Asia would be different, Africa even more so.

"These are numbers generated by third party analytics firms over a wide range of web sites."

Web sites in which country, in what proportion ?

"The implication here is that a large proportion of Android devices are never used to access the web, which is kind of odd given that's what they are primarily designed to do."

The implication could also be that you're extrapolating too far - difficult to tell without any real information - possibly due to your statistics not being reflective of world-wide numbers. The access number would also need to be for unique devices for the assumption that low usage = no usage (which you seem to be making - correct me if i'm wrong).

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Anonymous Coward

Re: 2/3rds running iOS7

he said USAGE not SALES - basically people 'use' their iPads a lot whereas other tablets are typically used very little. The figure was actually iPad usage (web) was more than 4x higher that ALL other tablets combined.

I know plenty of people with Android / other tablets and especially the cheaper ones seem to be little used.

The same is true of smartphones - lots of Android phones are sold as basic phones with a touch screen without even a DATA tariff.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: 2/3rds running iOS7

100% of iPads then you go on to say 'both' lol.

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Re: 2/3rds running iOS7

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

The purpose of statistics is to quantify differences. Depending on how you collect and analyse your numbers, you can get any result you want. People of integrity use statistics as an aid to discovery of new data: others use statistics to distort the truth, hence the famous quotation above.

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Re: Usage share

I think the issue are browsers on android not presenting themselves as mobile browsers so you get the "full" version of a page, these would get counted as desktop visits.

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'"Anyone who thinks it's a game changer is a tool,"

Could be argued that it didn't change a game, but rather introduced a whole new one (that's political speak!)'

Could be argued that it's split the game into twolmthe looking at stuff game and the doing stuff game.

Once there was one sort of device for both, thedesklaptop, with good sized screen, keyboard and mouse.

Now there are two, the desklaptop and the tablet, with small screen, weak keyboard substitute and no mouse.

The latter is fine for those who mostly look at stuff and sometimes do simple stuff.

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Angel

Please Tim kepp going............

With any luck MS will tell Apple where to stick their agreement not to go after each other on patents etc and demand the same from them as they have from Android device makers. Just think how many billions that would bring in for a start.

We could then see them wipe each other out with bans on devices etc.......

Yea.......

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Re: Please Tim kepp going............

Oh yes - because handing a monopoly to Samsung would truly make the world a better place

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Free upgrade

with every massively overpriced device!

IMHO they should ban the use of "free" in advertising when meaning "at no extra cost"!

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