back to article It's the '90s all over again: Apple repeats mistakes as low-cost tablets pile up

Apple risks repeating the mistakes of the 1990s as it sticks to a high price strategy on its iPads and other products, even as the surging tablet market heads for excess inventory in the fourth quarter. Kicking off its Asian channels forum, Canalys CEO Steve Brazier said that tablets currently took 35 per cent of the device …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    I've already commented on this before.

    Looking a lot like Mac vs. Windows from 20 years ago.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Resale value

      Not withstanding all the crap we hear about Apple, you pick one of their tablets up and the quality is there to be seen. Regular updates for free, new operating system for free, a good life span in technology terms of at least 3 years, no fragmentation that relies on a service provider and manufacturer to provide timely fixes and hasn't looked dated from day one, resale value extremely high compared to the opposition.

      What's not to like?

      1. Chris 171

        Re: Resale value

        Itunes, thats whats wrong.

        1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge
          FAIL

          @ Chris 171

          Apple devices have not needed to be tethered to iTunes since iOS5 back in 2011.

          1. Indolent Wretch

            Re: @ Chris 171

            Oh really, I take you didn't have an Apple TV box that was utterly borked by the latest software update.

            Solution

            Step 1 : connect to your pc running iTunes with this cable.

            Step 2 : ....

          2. Tom 13

            Re: @ Chris 171

            Eh, yes and no. Make no mistake about it, iPhones and iPads are intended to be tethered to iTunes for media consumption. Most people I know are all about their music/video library on their devices. You don't HAVE to do it, but it works better if you do. Phones in particular are a PITA to activate without iTunes. I don't own an iPhone, but I have to configure them for users at work. And work doesn't allow you to use iTunes. So I understand the process and avoid it when possible. It makes it really interesting when they want to deploy apps to the damn phones. Especially free ones that are simple if you are tethered to iTunes/the store

        2. NomNomNom

          Re: Resale value

          I recently got dragged in to "fixing" an issue on someone's macbook where ITunes wasn't syncing with their IPod. I am a windows developer and have no idea about Apple stuff but I thought I would take a look.

          Well it readily became apparent that ITunes was a crock of shit. The problem with ITunes is entirely the DRM which causes ridiculous concepts like "syncing" and dialogs threatening to delete music off your device in order to do this. Some crap about maximum number of devices you can link to an library (reminds me of DVD region codes). All confusing and it's hard to trial and error when you risk accidentally deleting all the music on someone's device. Having to manually compare what tracks are in the library and what is on the device -and puzzling over what happens to tracks on the IPod that aren't in the library if you sync (howd they get there?). What a pile of crap. I am sure it would all work fine if not for DRM, so I dont blame Apple for being unable to fix it, just that they unfortunately have stuck to DRM for some reason (why?? downloading music from amazon is DRM free and mp3 player manufacturers don't try to stop you using it how you want)

          1. Dave 126 Silver badge

            Re: Resale value

            I'm not a Mac or iTunes user either, but I would have thought you'd just Google for some software to copy the music off the device, allowing you to then experiment with iTunes without risk.

            The first iPods and iTunes had DRM, but that was necessary to get the music publishers on board with the concept. Once iTunes was a big enough force to dictate terms they abandoned DRM, thus paving the way for other online music retailers.

            I don't use iDevices, but I wouldn't deny they work well for a lot of people. Other MP3 players support DRM as an option too, everything from an iRiver to a Sansa (until you stick Rockbox on them)

            1. NomNomNom

              Re: Resale value

              right guess i just dont understand these things. but as an ignorant user i still want my opinion heard. I demand MPs grill steve jobs!

          2. jason 7

            Re: Resale value

            The problem with iTunes is that it's a crappy music database that's been pushed to do ten times more than it was originally intended.

            Like taking a simple two slice toaster and trying to turn it into a full blown multi-function Magnet Kitchen.

            1. Chris 171

              Re: Resale value

              To be fair that's actually quite innovative.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Resale value

            Cool story bro... (except for the DRM bullshit - iTunes music has been DRM free for nearly 5 years...)

            1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

              @AC re resale value

              Don't waste your breath; facts mean little to Apple haters....

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Resale value

          I'm not saying that its not good stuff, but most people are going to gravitate to "cheap and good enough" over time

      2. Alan Denman

        You gotta have faith but Only You. Ain't That I'm taking the Michael, Vince?

        Apple have such faith in their OS systems its a one way trip to no return !

        So what happens if IOS 7 grows on you like an ugly turd ?

      3. big_D Silver badge

        3 years?

        My last laptop is still going strong, it is a 2004 Acer... My current laptop is a 4 year old Sony and isn't anywhere near needing being replaced.

        In fact, the only one that is struggling is my 2007 iMac that creaks along (minutes to boot and 45 seconds to load Firefox. Playing a DVD alongside Firefox and the DVD player drops frames!

      4. NeilMc

        Re: Resale value

        You get what you pay for; 2 weeks short of the warranty expiration on my iPhone5 the wake sleep button start to play up intermittently; worst kind of nightmare, no consistent fault scenario, how do they sort this.....

        I booked a slot at the local Apple Store Genius Bar; Beardy Genius saw me within minutes of my time slot (on the weekend too), ran some diagnostics and immediately swapped out the handset for a new one. No questions......

        Microsoft, HTC or Samsung or BB would have given me the runaround for 3 weeks and then said you are out of warranty "feck off" or pay for a new handset.

        For the time being Apple have attractive, quality products with good customer service at aspirational price points that are just about in reach of a good slice of market share that sustains their business vision / goals.

        The issue for them is simple do they

        A: follow the mass market into a death spiral of over supply of evermore capable products that Consumers rarely use to their full extent or

        B: stay at the premium end of the market which no one can touch them at, work on brand loyalty (evidenced by the recent appointment of Ahrendts from Burberry) and watch the bottom feeders devour each other or drown in the over supply product inventory.

        mmmmmmmm tough choice..........

        As I say for the near future Apple have my business.

        1. big_D Silver badge

          Re: Resale value @NeilMc

          Over here, we don't have an Apple Store. If there is a problem with an iPhone, they pick it up and leave you hanging for 2 weeks, when hopefully it will come back repaired. My iPhone spent 6 of the first 8 weeks of ownership at the warranty centre, where they totally failed to find a fault with it. Only after I got loud in the T-Mobile shop after the third time did they replace it - after another 2 weeks at the repair centre, where they miraculously found the problem and replaced it with a new one!

          On the other hand, my htc and Samsung phones were swapped out at my place of work for new ones, no questions asked - well, they asked whether the screen was broken due to it being dropped or whether it had become wet (they still replace them, but you have to part of the refurbishing costs).

          In the end, we paid for AppleCare for one iPhone, because it had been replaced 4 times in 2 years, that gave us the same level of service that we got from htc and Samsung, through the carrier, for free.

        2. WhoaWhoa

          Re: Resale value

          "aspirational price points"

          Wtf are they supposed to be?

      5. Tom 13

        Re: you pick one of their tablets up and the quality is there to be seen.

        Betamax went that route back in the 90s too. Better quality all the way around. VHS still won the tape war before DVD rolled in to dethrone it. And for essentially the same reasons: sometimes good enough at half the price takes more of the market than top quality at top dollar. I've heard people say similar things about laser disk players vs DVDs, although they will usually yield on Bluray.

        1. Pookietoo

          Re: Betamax went that route back in the 90s too.

          The flaw with Betamax was lack of content, that's not a problem for Apple.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: you pick one of their tablets up and the quality is there to be seen.

          Tom13, you need more than one history lesson apparently.

          VHS = Porn

          Beta != Porn

          Result = VHS. It was that simple.

          Sony learned their lesson and allowed porn to be delivered on BlueRay from the get go.

          1. WhoaWhoa

            Re: you pick one of their tablets up and the quality is there to be seen.

            "get go"

            "start"?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      It's nothing like the 90's

      Tempting as it might be to assume history will repeat itself, it actually won't. There are two key differences.

      The first is that Apple might have a lessening market share but they have the highest peofit margin in the industry. When all is said and done, that's the name of the game.

      The second is related to the first. It's Apple'ss cash hoard. It's almost impossible to predict what a company with this much money on hand will do - they can solve almost any problem that is amenable to being solved financially.

      1. TopOnePercent

        Re: It's nothing like the 90's

        "It's almost impossible to predict what a company with this much money on hand will do"

        Actually its completely predictable. They'll carry on as they are for now while Android eats their lunch. Then they'll change CEO / board once the decine sets in. Then they'll switch from being a growth stock to an income stock. Then they'll issue a special dividend to return cash to investors. Then the cash pile will be gone.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: It's nothing like the 90's

          @topone - care to phrase that in the form of a wager ? <grin>

        2. Tom 13

          Re: Actually its completely predictable.

          And that's assuming Ichan doesn't look at the flailing company and see dollar signs. Goll'um, goll'um... Tempts us it does. Yes, Precious, yes.

  2. jai

    And yet I thought the problem they had in the 90s was allowing others to create cheaper clones that ran MacOS.

    1. ThomH

      I wouldn't describe that as *the* problem. Others features of Apple's meandering lost decade: Copland, OpenDoc, RAVE, QuickDraw GX, the Newton (especially the eMate), computers delivered by chauffeur.

      1. Lusty

        @ThomH

        I wouldn't include Newton in a list of mistakes, Apple learned a lot from the Newton. One of the things they learned is that people wanted a handheld computing device and were willing to pay for it. The other thing they learned is not to release it until the technology could deliver the experience people expected. Cue a few years gap and the release of the iPhone.

        It could be argued that Apple have kept the same plan all along - look at the new Mac Pro as further evidence of finishing old projects :)

    2. Roo

      "And yet I thought the problem they had in the 90s was allowing others to create cheaper clones that ran MacOS."

      No, that wasn't a problem. They simply drove their partners out of the business - which is a shame because it was Apple's idea in the first place, and it might have helped get PowerPC established and drive the platform dev costs down.

    3. big_D Silver badge

      The biggest problem was their finance department. They never worked out that you have to DIVIDE the dollar price to get the Sterling price, not multiply it by the exchange rate!

  3. Wibble
    Holmes

    iPads are expensive?

    Like laptops, when you compare like-with-like, the iPads come out pretty well. Arstechnica have a tablet comparison chart which is very interesting:

    http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/the-ultimate-tablet-comparison-chart-with-the-new-ipads/

    In the laptop arena, there's a ton of cheapo plastic grot on sale which are just plain awful when compared with high-end MacBooks. Same for tablets; even my old iPad 1 works better than many cheapo plastic grot tablets which inhabit the low-end of the market. Incredibly, that iPad 1 is probably still worth more second-hand than one can buy a new low-end tablet.

    My point is that when you compare like-with-like -- retina display, computing power and speed, build quality, user experience -- there's not much which can hold a candle to an iPad, especially the new retina iPad Mini.

    BTW have you ever used a tablet with a plastic screen? It's horrible!

    1. andreas koch
      Meh

      @ Wibble - Re: iPads are expensive?

      But who needs a "retina" screen to launch malformed birds at equally malformed pigs?

      Oh, yes, there are some people who use tablets to create something, but most tablets are for cheap, nasty entertainment.

      Of 7-year-olds. In the back of the car. A cheapo tablet is fine for that.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @ Wibble - iPads are expensive?

        I bought a 'cheapo' tablet for the kids to help with the travel experience, quote from my son 'dad, give this to my sister she can have it, I want your iPad' to which my daughter replied 'why should I have to have the rubbish'.

        Even children know what's best.

        1. WhoaWhoa

          Re: @ Wibble - iPads are expensive?

          Do you jump when they say, Jump?

          Are they grateful for anything, or just iCentred?

        2. DAN*tastik

          Re: @ Wibble - iPads are expensive?

          I'll print your post out and keep it in my pocket, in the unlikely event that mum ever says that it's a shame she has no grand children.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Even children know what's best.

          Indeed, my anonymous child, when given an ipad, said "Dad, why did you pay over the odds for this underspecced piece of crap? I don't want a walled garden, I want something I can easily root and get cyanogen on." His sister then chimed in "don't give me that crap, I don't want people thinking I'm some kind of brand obsessed chav..."

          My kids are obviously a fuck sight smarter than yours....

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Even children know what's best.

            @AC08:48. It always annoys me that you are not allowed to use the "Joke Alert" icon when AC. Kids are damned brand aware.

          2. WhoaWhoa

            Re: Even children know what's best.

            "My kids are obviously a fuck sight smarter than yours...."

            Yes.

            Or maybe just scared stiff of your anger and brand-ego.

            I wondered how chav-kids developed. Parental influence, maybe.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Or maybe just scared stiff of your anger and brand-ego.

              Or maybe they are a fictional response to an equally fictional original post?

              A bit rich to claim I'm the one influencing my kids whilst ignoring the first "my kids love apple" post.....

              (What makes you think I'm angry? Because I did a swear? Maybe that's just the way I talk when amongst adults...)

        4. MacroRodent

          Re: @ Wibble - iPads are expensive?

          > 'dad, give this to my sister she can have it, I want your iPad'

          Reminds me of what happened last summer. Our family visited an Angry Birds theme park (or more like a playing space as it was indoors) in Lapland. Microsoft had arranged a a half-dozen of their Surface pads in one corner to promote them (along with xboxes and kinects). It didn't take long for my 7-year old son to play with the Surface before declaring iPad is much better...

          Kids are quite discerning these days.

          1. Dave 126 Silver badge

            Re: @ Wibble - iPads are expensive?

            >The iPad misses some hugely basic pieces of functionality, such as being able to hook up USB devices

            You can connect an SD card reader or a USB A host (and thus even an external 24 bit DAC ) to an iPad if you want, not to mention a wide and commonly available range of 'made for iPad' 3rd party peripherals. What more do you want?

            If you want a serial port to connect your oscilloscope then get yourself a cheap netbook.

            1. Dave 126 Silver badge

              Downvoters: show us your links.

              Hmm, still not sure what USB connectivity the OP thinks is missing:

              24bit 192 Khz DACs for iDevices:

              http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/audiophile-play-ipad

              via USB

              SD card reader and USB host:

              http://www.amazon.co.uk/High-Quality-digital-Connection-connector/dp/B00AXC5MBW/ref=pd_cp_computers_3 5in1 digital Camera Connection Kit USB/SD/TF Card Reader For iPad - £5.99

              High quality headphones with iDevice remote controls and microphones:

              http://en-de.sennheiser.com/iphone-headphones-headsets-earphones

              http://www.klipsch.com/in-ear

              http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Headphones/Headphones/P5/Features.html#madeforiphone

              High quality microphones for iDevices:

              http://tascam.com/product/im2/

              There may be valid complaints about the iPad, but being unable to connect stuff to it is not one of them. True, the USB host isn't built in, nor is a microUSB port, but then they aren't on the Samsung Tab, either. The Nexus 7 requires an adaptor to be USB host, and the Nexus 4 won't support it at all.

              1. John 172

                Re: Downvoters: show us your links.

                Just for kicks I connected my Yamaha keyboards MIDI USB port to my iPad using the USB adapter in the camera connection kit. Would you know it, it just worked and I was able to use the Yamaha keyboard to lay tracks down in Garageband!

                1. Dave 126 Silver badge

                  Re: Downvoters: show us your links.

                  >I connected my Yamaha keyboards MIDI USB port to my iPad using the USB adapter in the camera connection kit.

                  And all iDevices have supported wireless MIDI since the first iPod, too. It does Apple no harm to cater to a group of people, like musicians, who are in the public eye.

              2. WhoaWhoa

                Re: Downvoters: show us your links.

                "There may be valid complaints about the iPad, but being unable to connect stuff to it is not one of them."

                OK. I'm with you so far.

                "True, the USB host isn't built in, nor is a microUSB port"

                Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

                Ho ho ho ho ho ho ho!

                You just lost me.

                (Images coming in droves... this car /has/ got wheels. True, they're not built in...)

            2. big_D Silver badge

              Re: @ Wibble - iPads are expensive? @Dave126

              SD card and DAC at the same time, and connected to an external monitor with extended desktop, keyboard, mouse and Ethernet?

              A desktop dock with Ethernet was an important decider for me. At work I have Edge, at best, and no WLAN.

              1. Lusty

                Re: @ Wibble - iPads are expensive? @Dave126

                "A desktop dock with Ethernet was an important decider for me. At work I have Edge, at best, and no WLAN."

                So let us get this straight. Your workplace has decided not to keep up with technology and fit Wifi to support the multitude of modern mobile devices and you somehow concluded Apple are the ones at fault? Apple don't give a shit if you want to glue your iPad to the desk, but that's no reason for the other 169999999 iPad users to be lumbered with an RJ45 socket.

                The iPad is not successful because it's a smaller computer, it's successful because it's NOT a smaller computer. Apple make smaller computers, in fact they kind of fixed the whole smaller computer market with the Mini and the Air. They also fixed the data available on your devices issue with iCloud. The fact that you don't get their strategy is of no importance to them because you're not their market.

                1. big_D Silver badge

                  Re: @ Wibble - iPads are expensive? @Lusty

                  my tablet also doesn't have an RJ45 socket, but the desktop dock does. The point being, if I am somewhere that doesn't have wireless coverage, on'y cabled, I can still work.

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