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back to article Microsoft wants to 'move beyond' the Cookie Monster

Microsoft has confirmed a report that it is looking into replacing cookies, which underpin the global online advertising business, with its own technology that would store all that valuable user information on Redmond's own servers. Sources within the company told AdAge that Redmond is in the early stages of developing a …

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What, Microsoft wants to give users more reasons to AVOID Microsoft products?

Isn't Internet Explorer crappy enough?

Haven't they lost enough respect in the world?

Is Microsoft deranged? Mentally unfit?

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Yes.

Or, in more detail, yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes.

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Seeing as Google and Amazon are working on their own versions and Apple already have their own system in place for Safari and iOS I'm this a reason for you to not buy their products either?

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> Is Microsoft deranged? Mentally unfit?

So nuts that even Ballmer calls it a day?

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Anonymous Coward

Makes You Laugh Harder At MS's Already Laughable Scroogled Campaign

At least Google is upfront that it is an advertising business.

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@Tristan

"Microsoft wants to give users more reasons to AVOID Microsoft products?"

You are right, however this is El Reg, NOT a representative sample of worldwide internet usage. Less clued-up users couldn't really care (or wouldn't even know) if some tracking data is being stored at MS. After all they are mostly happy enough with accepting cookies, ads etc.

If 100% of El Reg users didn't use MS, it would move MS user base by maybe a hundredth of a percentage point.

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Anonymous Coward

Don't use google, and I don't use safari, but yes... I do buy books on Amazon.com, so I guess I'm guilty after all. =(

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Re: @ James Micallef

That might be true, but the literate technology users are the trend setters - they help other people set up machines, they work in IT departments, and they write reviews.

Granted there's enough apathy to go around, but it's not the only force - witness the collapse of IE's market share to Firefox and Chrome in the last 5 or 6 years. It takes some time for the market to move, but decisions like this will do nothing to boost Microsoft's dwindling influence on the internet.

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JDX
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re:That might be true, but the literate technology users are the trend setters

Then how come IE was the dominant browser for a decade and MSOffice/Windows are still the de facto standard?

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Re: re:That might be true, but the literate technology users are the trend setters

The standard belief is also that Hoover was laissez-faire and the "New Deal" helped to improve the economy. So what.

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Re: re:That might be true, but the literate technology users are the trend setters

Then how come IE was the dominant browser for a decade and MSOffice/Windows are still the de facto standard?

To state the blindingly obvious; because they come bundled with virtually all PCs.

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Re: @ James Micallef

The "literate tech user" is biased and only reads literature that reinforces their exisiting beliefs as opposed to those that challenge it and The Register crowd is no different.

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"more reasons to AVOID Microsoft products"

Hmm, so MS hoarding and slurping your surfing data will give you (another) reason to avoid using MS? Howabout Android, Chrome, Google Search, and GMail then, all from a company who's raison d'etre, and considerable fortune, are built on exactly the same thing?

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Re: re:That might be true, but the literate technology users are the trend setters

The de facto standard for what exactly if I may inquire?

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Re: @ James Micallef

Well, yes, but we build the stuff and set it up, and we advise the non-literate tech user, we man the IT depts and the tech support ;)

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Holmes

Re: @ James Micallef

The "literate tech user" is biased and only reads literature that reinforces their exisiting beliefs as opposed to those that challenge it and The Register crowd is no different.

That is demonstrably false.

For example, I read your post.

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Big Brother

What do you think that Facebook "like" button is for?

It's not for the special occasion when you really really must tell the world you like something!

No it to track you for adverts.. same as Google+, MSN, yahoo and a whole load of others. All of whom share data with the NSA, and that's without mentioning the ISPs who are tracking your every click-stream again for advertisements.

Maybe the answer is not to bitch about the evil profiling they've all been doing for years, but to lobby for a "cookie jar" option in HTTP, and allow us to choose if and where our cookies are stored.. it might be a cunning plan from intrusive advertisers, but it is also kinda nice if a travel site know where you live regardless of whether you're using a phone, tablet or PC

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Re: @MattEvansC3 Re: @ James Micallef

So, because I read you comment, then I must agree with you? Nah, have a downvote.

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Anonymous Coward

"Isn't Internet Explorer crappy enough?"

I guess you havn't used IE for a while. It's been the fastest browser on the market at release for the last 4 versions and is increasing it's market share...Not to mention IE has had far fewer security holes in recent versions than Chrome, Firefox or Safari....

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Anonymous Coward

Re: re:That might be true, but the literate technology users are the trend setters

"how come IE was the dominant browser for a decade"

IE still is the dominant Windows browser....

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Anonymous Coward

Re: re:That might be true, but the literate technology users are the trend setters

"because they come bundled with virtually all PCs."

All PCs including Windows 8 offer you a choice of browser....And IE is listed last!

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Re: Browser choice

You do get the choice, but IE is already installed, and i reckon a very large number of 'normal users' just click close on that, every time it pops up (along with all the other start up errors on a windows PC). every time they switch on their PC.

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Yes, yes, very important

"Microsoft believes going beyond the cookie is important."

Important for whom, exactly?

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Flame

Unbelievable!

In a way you have to admire MS's audacity.

All the same, they can just fuck. right. off.

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This post has been deleted by its author

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Believable, sadly

Possibly the truly worrying thing is that these moves are becoming less audacious and more commonplace.

Regardless, I agree with the sentiment.

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Unhappy

Re: Unbelievable!

"In a way you have to admire MS's audacity."

It's what monopolists do.

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Re: Unbelievable!

That would be why Google and Amazon are doing it, then (see article).

Interestingly though, we don't get an article and millions "M$ lol" comments about those.

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JDX
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Re: It's what monopolists do.

Yes, bing and IE are certainly monopolies

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Re: Unbelievable!

Damn their honesty in publicly indicating an intention to capture anything and everything about you and in the future probably expose it! It's not like facebook and google are doing the same thing already and sometimes retrospectively!

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I for one welcome...

...any advertising annoyance that is tied in to IE and Bing to the exclusion of all other platforms.

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Anonymous Coward

Oh well...

Just more IP addresses to block at my firewall

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Facepalm

more to point

what are these non-cookie based tracking things based on? It must be something that is close to a UIRI Universal Individidual Resource Identifier that gets tied to a users account on a machine. Another file to track or is the EEFI (sp?) going to be more toxic than it was intended to be ?

As for trusting any identifier based on something that is stored on BigCorp (tm) server, oh great. Misidentification galore once the spooks, rozzers and general do-gooders get loose tracking down the latest objects of persecution. To comply with local laws of course.

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Re: "non-cookie based tracking things based on?"

Do you not get pestered for a MS log-in when setting up Windows 8? My guess is this will become mandatory and one ID that MS can use to track you, and slurp your data to SkyDrive for better analysis.

As if we did not have enough reasons not to desire a move to Windows 8 already...

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Re: more to point

> To comply with local laws of course.

What? You don't want to know about paedophile terrorist pro-gun abusive husbands in your neighborhood who are likely to avoid thermally isolating their house and are against single mothers and the homeless as they demand austerity and demolition of needed quangos and state tentacles?

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Re: "non-cookie based tracking things based on?"

LOL, I already see the Mac vs. PC spot comming..

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Re: more to point

Possibly some sort of hash based on IP address+OS version+browser version. MS knows which the OS or browser version change (they run the update servers) so could track a user for a long time on that information alone.

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"Our priority will be to find ways to do this that respect the interests of consumers."

Simple : don't do it at all. That's respectful enough.

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Re: "Our priority will be to find ways to do this that respect the interests of consumers."

I think you misunderstand who Microsoft think is the consumer of this service ;-)

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Terminator

Oh joy!

Cookie-substitutes you can't delete. Ever. And - bonus - they're owned and controlled by The Beast, who will sell them to the highest bidder (and just give them to the NSA).

How could anyone refuse such a tempting offer?

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JDX
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Re: Oh joy!

Wow, they've let you in on their plans for a product that doesn't even exist? You know that after all the rounds of discussion and testing, they won't allow you delete your 'cookies'?

Surely your NDA prohibits you disclosing this information.

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Meh

Re: Oh joy!

> You know that after all the rounds of discussion and testing, they won't allow you delete your 'cookies'?

Been living under many stones, lately?

Or member of the "business as usual" brigade?

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Windows

Re: Oh joy!

@JDX: Oh excuse me, I forgot that this is the magnificently benevolent and trustworthy Microsoft, that shining knight of the tech industry that saves puppies from fire-breathing dragons, not a belligerent corporate despot hell-bent on monopolising the entire industry.

So clearly I should just implicitly trust that they'll allow me full control of the data they harvest from me, and trust, with equal conviction, that they won't make backups, retain those backups for extended periods, gleefully pass my data on to the NSA (even under penalty of prosecution for violating an NSL), then ultimately sell-off my private bits for profit.

Because, you know, businesses aren't really interested in profit, especially not the profits required to cover the costs of the service they're offering, and especially not when that business is one as benevolent as Microsoft, as opposed to, say, a company with a four-decade history of anti-trust violations, extreme hostility, patent racketeering and clandestine behaviour. They're certainly not interested in staying in business, or moreover staying out of prison, by doing whatever the NSA tells them to, then keeping quiet about it like the nice gag order thingie tells them to.

So I humbly submit my unreserved apology for doubting your beloved Microsoft for even an instant, along with an invoice for payment, as per your instructions.

Love 'n Kisses,

Homer

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FAIL

Who uses bing?

I have tried saying to many people "just bing it" or similar and they either think I am nuts, joking, or both.

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Re: Who uses bing?

Now that a large proportion (maybe even most) searching is done online, we no longer need a special word to denote online searching. Thus we can use that one we all used to use before we got all excited about computery stuff. You need only say -

"Just search for it"

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Re: Who uses bing?

I kind of like Bing. It seems a little less censored then Google, especially the image search. Google has that always-on semi safesearch thing now where if you search for an ambiguous term, like "cream pie", or even "pussy" they'll only show you the clean meaning unless you add other words to clarify. Whereas on Bing you get pictures of literal cream pies and cream filled vaginas all mixed together. Which is... interesting. But more importantly it's an honest result, just what I asked for, without trying to second guess what I "really meant".

Their related search suggestions are more interesting too, even if a few of them sound borderline illegal.

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Microsoft is creating a new technology that only works within their own ecosystem?

Let's see if I care, do I use:

Bing? No

IE? No

Windows Phone? No

Windows? Rarely

Guess I don't have to care about this.

You'd think they'd be trying to create a standard to be adopted, since the days of Microsoft being able to create something and have it become a defacto standard based on their control of the market are long past.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Microsoft ecosystem?

Well, no doubt any MS webserver will construct and forward suitable cookie-like data for your browser/ip/whatever combination, regardless of what you do. And if site-owners join in, they could add such capabilities to any web server, not just specific MS ones.

The decision on whether or not these new cookies might be constructed for you, stored elsewhere, and accessed by MS "partners", really needs have nothing to do with you at all. Maybe, if you are paranoid enough, you might make it hard to identify that browser/ip/etc combo with you uniquely ... but are you really planning to never use the web from home?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Microsoft is creating a new technology that only works within their own ecosystem?

"Let's see if I care, do I use:

Bing? No

IE? No

Windows Phone? No

Windows? Rarely

Guess I don't have to care about this.

You'd think they'd be trying to create a standard to be adopted, since the days of Microsoft being able to create something and have it become a defacto standard based on their control of the market are long past."

Ah! Fanboi eh?

So you think Apple are any better?

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the internet just gets worse and worse.

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