back to article London plod plonks, er, pull request on EasyDNS

Hosting outfit EasyDNS has gone public with a takedown request issued not by a court, but from the City of London Police. The domain being targeted by the plods is Torrentpond.com, which is registered in Singapore and whose address, 91.213.8.186, is in a block belonging to Hosting Solutions in the Commonwealth of Dominica. …

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nice to see

glad to see easydns fighting back. They certainly seem to have the high ground. Since the site in question is a basic torrent site, it's hardly that harmful(hardly justifying any sort of knee jerk reaction), the police should go through the proper channels.

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Gold badge

Re: nice to see

Mark is damned good people. Proud to share a country with the man. There's a reason I've used his DNS services for over 15 years and I'm not about to stop now. Not only is he absolutely a stand up kind of guy, EasyDNS proactive nameservers make them a leader in DNS innovation. I'd not have thought that there could actually be innovation in DNS...but the man has the patents to prove it.

All 'round, good bloke, good company, great service...and he's Canadian! What more could you ask?

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Re: nice to see

Looking (thank you, CoL Police) unless I am missing something, it doesn't even appear to be a torrent site. Not only does it not host material, it doesn't even host .torrent files for torrents of the material.

It appears to be a site that enables you to search a selection of torrent sites, one at a time, with the same search. Google / Bing / any other general search engine does more than this: they will give you results from more than one site at the same time.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: nice to see

I wonder how much cash the CoL police have taken from the copyright cartels for the Police Benevolent Fund ?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: nice to see

Who the hell are the "Police Intellectual Property Crime Unit (PIPCU)" on page http://83.138.166.114/

Copyright infringement is a civil crime.

Is there a Police Neighbourhood Disputes Over Hedges Crime Unity (PNDOHC)...

Police Extrenuous Notification Interruption of (dns) Service team? (PENIS)

I think the police need to get this in hand...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: nice to see

"I wonder how much cash the CoL police have taken from the copyright cartels for the Police Benevolent Fund ?"

more likely future career plans of inspector and sgt. Plod, as "...having left the police, joined XCorp as an intelectual property consultant, in our legal services team"

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WTF?

Have to look at this more closely, but how can anyone do this? We really need accountable government. Accountable to us, that is.

When a democratic government decides to raise taxes or wage war or write child safety laws, it is essentially saying to an enormous jury, "This is our theory of how the world works, and this is our proposal for dealing with it. If our theory makes sense to you, vote for us in the next election. If it doesn't, throw us out." The ability of citizens to scrutinize the theories insisted on by their government is their only protection against abuse of power and, ultimately, against tyranny. If ordinary citizens can't coolly and rationally evaluate a prosecutor's summation in a criminal trial, they won't have a chance at calling to task a deceitful government. And all governments are deceitful--they're deceitful because it's easier than being honest. Most of the time, it's no more sinister than that.”

― Sebastian Junger, A Death in Belmont

Sometimes, though, a cigar is just a cigar.

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Re: WTF?

Well, I looked.

I hate to give them what they want, but the London Police want EasyDNS to illegally redirect that domain name to a landing page for the people they actually represent. Look for yourself. Disgusting:

http://http://83.138.166.114/

As Mark Jeftovic explains, this is well down the slippery slope. Whoever is responsible inside of that London Police operation should be severely reprimanded and if it is coming from the top, they should resign.

No doubt this is a result of the appalling illiteracy of the people we have left in charge of our governments. They are no doubt sincere, but that does not excuse them. They are trying to shut down a chunk of the infrastructure people are using for communication. What that communication might be is none of their business unless they have genuine, *legitimately obtained* probable cause sufficient to satisfy the courts. Hint: If they did, they would be presenting a warrant instead of an unfriendly Email. Even if they *did* have probable cause that people in a certain area code are using their telephones for criminal purposes, they do not have any right to shut down the telephone system.

My hat is off to Mark Jeftovic. Hopefully, others who understand this will contact the London Police to let them know they should get back to their actual jobs instead of toadying up to Entertainment Industry lawyers.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: WTF?

Oh dear. I just pointed my browser at that ip address out of curiosity, and saw that "You have tried to access a website that is under criminal investigation by the UK". Does that mean they are redirecting you to a page under criminal investigation? :-)

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Re: WTF?

Simple explanation - the police is corrupt. Those who bribed them are all listed on that page - BPI, FACT, IFPI etc.

If there is any unbent plod left in the country they should go get the warrants and raid these racketeering cartels, seize records, seal premises and do a proper investigation.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: WTF?

OpenDNS's own terms and conditions say that they will cease your account under certain circumstances, and one of those circumstances is that you are involved in Copyright Infringement. Mark Jeftovic appears to be getting on his high horse because he has been politely asked to investigate whether or not their own terms and conditions are being violated.

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Re: WTF?

Sorry, AC, if I complain to the Register that you are a serial copyright infringer and a paedo and a terrorist should they just take my word for granted, shut down your account and report you to the police?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: WTF?

EaayDNS != OpenDNS?!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: WTF?

"Whoever is responsible inside of that London Police operation should be severely reprimanded and if it is coming from the top, they should resign.

No doubt this is a result of the appalling illiteracy of the people we have left in charge of our governments. They are no doubt sincere, but that does not excuse them. They are trying to shut down a chunk of the infrastructure people are using for communication. "

You're able to tell the difference between the Police doing something, and the government doing something, aren't you?

Because you don't appear to be able to.

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Facepalm

Re: WTF?

Neither do the police themselves, it seems.

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Re: WTF?

Re: "because he has been politely asked to investigate"

Yeah. It is not his job to spy on and narc out his customers. He has plainly stated the terms and that is the end of his responsibility. He is providing a *pipeline* into the communications network and *so are his customers*. If the police have *probable cause* then they can go after the ones *allegedly* infringing copyright.

Criminals use the phone system, the electric grid, the highways. Are we to start shutting all of this down and illegally searching people because we suspect wrong doing?

The perps ultimately behind all of this in the United States have already locked up 2 million of their own citizens, many of them for victimless crimes and many entirely innocent. Meantime, the real criminals are accepting awards:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/19/usa-food-biotechnology-idUSL2N0EV1CT20130619

Here's a nice quote from that article:

Van Montagu said he hoped "that this recognition will pave the way for Europe to embrace the benefits of this technology, an essential condition for global acceptance of transgenic plants."

Most of the main players in our society are corrupt beyond redemption. Meantime, the police forces that should be protecting us from them are going after women and children for accessing information they have been forbidden to look at.

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Re: WTF?

Re: Because you don't appear to be able to.

Sorry. I am from Canada. The police forces here are paid out of our taxes as another part of the bureaucratic machinery of government. They enforce the laws our government have enacted on our behalf.

Putting what you say together with the fact that the London Police are advertising for the Entertainment Industry, I guess *they* must work for the Entertainment Industry directly. That explains a lot.

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Re: WTF?

Sometimes its hard to tell.

See the Hillsborough Inquiry.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: WTF?

"Re: Because you don't appear to be able to.

Sorry. I am from Canada. The police forces here are paid out of our taxes as another part of the bureaucratic machinery of government. They enforce the laws our government have enacted on our behalf

.

Putting what you say together with the fact that the London Police are advertising for the Entertainment Industry, I guess *they* must work for the Entertainment Industry directly. That explains a lot."

Right. Pretty sure I didn't say anything about the police advertising for the entertainment industry, afraid you're imagining things.

The police are not being directly instructed by government to send these letters. If you believe that to be the case, please provide any substantive evidence you have to support that belief. No? Stop making shit up then.

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Re: WTF?

"that you are involved in Copyright Infringement"

Hosting torrent files doesn't infringe any copyright. What you could do with the torrent files might but that's not the same thing.

It is like arresting you for murder because you have a knife in your kitchen.....

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Re: WTF?

Re: Pretty sure I didn't say anything about the police advertising for the entertainment industry, afraid you're imagining things.

I linked to their advertising page in an earlier comment. Perhaps you should review the rest of the conversation going on here. They have a page that directly encourages visitors to go to their sponsors and they have made a 'request' backed by thinly veiled threats that rather than resolving DNS to the legitimate domain, they instead direct it to that page.

Re: The police are not being directly instructed by government to send these letters. If you believe that to be the case, please provide any substantive evidence you have to support that belief.

As I said, in my country (a part of all this, in fact), the police get their funding from the public purse and they are explicitly charged with the enforcement of the laws passed by our legislatures. From what I can tell, a similar thing applies just about everywhere. Certainly, the force in question here gets their funding from the public purse. Are you suggesting that the CoL Police are *not* charged with enforcing laws passed by the Commons in the UK?

Re: No? Stop making shit up then.

You will get no traction using that strawman argument here. Somebody is making something up here, but it is not me.

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Re: WTF? indeed.

The police are an arm of the government (or "emanation" in the parlance). This is not controversial.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: WTF? indeed.

"The police are an arm of the government (or "emanation" in the parlance). This is not controversial."

That's nonsense. If that were true, the police could never investigate the government, which clearly happens. There is a separation between law enforcement and the government.

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Re: WTF?

City of London. Not just 'London.' Important legal distinction.

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Re: WTF?

Actually, they do.

These are the City of London police, not the regular metropolitan London police, aka 'The Met.' They work for the Corporation of London, which in turn essentially represents industry. Primarily the financial services industry, but with influence from others, including media.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: WTF?

"As I said, in my country (a part of all this, in fact), the police get their funding from the public purse and they are explicitly charged with the enforcement of the laws passed by our legislatures. From what I can tell, a similar thing applies just about everywhere. Certainly, the force in question here gets their funding from the public purse. Are you suggesting that the CoL Police are *not* charged with enforcing laws passed by the Commons in the UK?"

No, what I'm saying is the Police were not instructed by the government to send that letter to that ISP.

Of course the police enforce the laws of the land. Of course they're paid for from the public purse. This is not at all the same thing as "the government directly controls the police, and tells them what to do operationally". That just isn't happening.

If that were true, how could the police investigate government officials breaking the law? They absolutely have to be separate from government, to be able to do their job properly.

If you're asserting that the government instructed, influenced, or in some way caused the police to send out that letter to that ISP (the story we're commenting on), provide any kind of evidence that backs that up. Saying The police are "paid for from the public purse", therefore the Government "is trying to shut down a chunk of the infrastructure people are using for communication" - that's a complete non-sequitur. It's gibberish.

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Re: WTF?

The same City of London police who have a high membership of the cult of scientology and will arrest (or threaten to) anyone displaying a tshirt or sign which says "Scientology is a dangerous cult" anywhere near Bad Clam HQ (which just happens to be in.... the City of London)

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Bronze badge

Re: WTF?

Easy, guy. Remember the UK libel laws?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: WTF?

> Simple explanation - the police is corrupt. Those who bribed them are all listed on that page

I'm sorry Vladimir, but I doubt they've been bribed.

They probably did it for free, the silly cunts. :(

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Anonymous Coward

Re: WTF?

> Right. Pretty sure I didn't say anything about the police advertising for the entertainment industry, afraid you're imagining things.

What's the bet our fellow AC did not read EasyDNS' blog post, which is linked in this article?

Would be surprised if he's read the article even.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: WTF? indeed.

Someone said:

> "The police are an arm of the government (or "emanation" in the parlance). This is not controversial."

And AC above replied:

> That's nonsense.

Ermm.... :)

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Re: WTF? indeed.

In the UK (as in other countries) the state is divided into legislature (Parliament), executive (government and other state machinery), and judiciary (courts etc). The police function is part of the executive, which can be seen in the police being under the Home Office. There is a greater or lesser degree of control of the police by the government depending on time, administration, and issue. That makes the commenter claiming "nonsense" to be wrong. The only real question is to how much the City of London police have been guided to the actions they have taken by someone in government.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: WTF? indeed.

" The only real question is to how much the City of London police have been guided to the actions they have taken by someone in government."

Fuck's sake people.

Have you any evidence AT ALL that this action was guided by anybody in government?

Anything AT ALL to support that assertion? Anything? AT ALL?

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A few details

London (UK) has two police forces. The Metropolitan Police (The Met) that is responsible for most of London and the City of London Police (CoLP) which is an older and separate force that is responsible for the ancient 'square mile' centre of London. I'm wondering which police force it is.

The CoLP have close contacts with wealthy and infuential organisations that have headquarters and offices in the centre of London and have specialist fraud and economic crime units that work closely with major organisations.

If it is the CoLP, I'm sure they would not be influenced by any large dinners or invitations to international conferences from entertainment industry executives. Throughout their history, the CoLP have never been associated with corruption or dubious practices. The Met have a similar history of absolute probity, as everybody knows.

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Re: A few details

You owe me a new Sarcasm Meter - mine just exploded.

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Re: A few details

The City of London is a state alone within the UK.

It's police, government and industry are intertwined to a degree above corruption and more like symbiosis.

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Re: A few details

The CoLP have close contacts with wealthy and infuential organisations that have headquarters and offices in the centre of London and have specialist fraud and economic crime units that work closely with major organisations.

Yep - close contacts with the likes of Phorm.

CoL police officers were wined and dined by Phorm during the time that they were supposed to be investigating them and decided to drop the investigation before ever actually formally interviewing anybody from the company. Although perhaps it's useful to know this - if the public ever need something to be investigated properly it would seem that a nice meal somewhere is enough to get the desired outcome.

'Cosy' doesn't even begin to describe it when it comes to the relationships they have with businesses.

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Re: A few details

It's more than cosy, it's part of the state's machinery; corporations can vote in the council elections for the CoL - http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/about-the-city/how-we-work/elections-and-wards/Pages/city-of-london-ward-elections.aspx

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Anonymous Coward

Good for EasyDNS, I also suggest pouring some salt in the wound by fining the London Police as their holding page isn't accessible to screen reader users as all of the "alt" tags for the images of their sponsors are empty.

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Check out that missing closing anchor tag. And the wrong doctype for that document.

Apparently the US government shutdown has affected web development services for the City of London Police agency. So they've had to hire Julian Assange to create that page for them.

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Where are Anonymice when you need them

This would be one of the very singular occasions in which I would like to see the table being turned on the perps( the police). This must be completely illegal..

We appear to be seeing more and more examples of how the "police state" has become a reality. Funny though, it doesn't seem to matter which party is elected , the police issues always remain inthe background. Politicians seem to be very wary of touching this holy ground.

I can easilly imagine that the Police High Commisioner, or whatever he is called, is a 33 degree macon... could there be a connection.....

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FAIL

Calm down, dears

If you actually read the City of London police letter, it doesn't pretend that it's a legally enforceable takedown demand. It's saying that it believes the complained of IP is being used for copyright infringement, and requesting EasyDNS to review it against their own Ts&Cs with a view to removing it. The implied ICAAN threat is perhaps a bit OTT, but overall this really doesn't seem to be an unreasonable request. EasyDNS is entirely at liberty to ignore it and wait and see if the police get a court order.

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Re: Calm down, dears

Yes, but why are the police writing this letter? Surely whoever's IP is being infringed should be writing the letter... or getting their lawyer to do it?

As someone who runs a small business and has on occasion had to deal with IP infringements, I can testify that without any doubt, if I took the matters to the police, they would not give a toss. I'd either have to do it myself, or pay a lawyer to do it.

This has the overwhelming stench of junkets, brown envelopes, expensive dinners and 'fact finding' visits to exotic locations. The police's job is not to act as hired muscle for the music industry.

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Flame

Re: "The police's job is not to act as hired muscle for the music industry"

Could someone please engrave that in marble, and then use said marble engraving as a cluebat on every police commissioner that forgets it ?

That would be nice. And yes, I'll take fries with that.

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Big Brother

"are suspected to be involved"

There are a dangerous number of process shortcuts in that police demand that should not be tolerated.

The document makes it clear that there are only suspicions of a crime. I'm sure ICANN gets lots of angry troll mail and that they are adept at dismissing them. The proper first step would be to ask EasyDNS to validate the ownership record. If EasyDNS claims it's legit, get a court order to investigate the owner. Should the ownership record prove to be false or point to an entity not entirely responsible for the domain, terminating the domain takes no more effort than filling out an online form and providing the evidence.

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Re: "are suspected to be involved"

You don't understand the way the British police work. In the UK, the police arrest first, release on police bail, then investigate. It is called 'bail and see'.

The first proper step should be to make sure the police are acting lawfully.

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Re: "are suspected to be involved"

The document makes it clear that there are only suspicions of a crime.

Crime? I thought copyright infringement was a tort.

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Re: "are suspected to be involved"

"Crime? I thought copyright infringement was a tort."

It is, up to a threshold (much higher than in the USA).

Organised copyright infringement _for profit_ can be a criminal offence. As a means of civil disobedience it's not.

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EasyDNS are based in Canada

I've been using EasyDNS ever since my first domain registration and apart from the initial configuration and paying the bills I've really had no other need to contact them so I had to check this and yes they are based in Canada.

So basically, although it goes against the grain of any UK police force, be very nice and show the rogue site is doing something detrimental to the structure of the internet and not just hosting content their friends don't like or get a Canadian court order.

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Anonymous Coward

For those who didn't read the doco, the police asked:

"

We request that you review your processes to see if you provide a service for the identifieddomain(s). If so, we would ask you to review the terms and conditions on the basis of whichthat service is provided and withdraw or suspend the service if you are satisfied that theterms and conditions have been breached"

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