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back to article Apple's new iPhones dope-slap Samsung in US

More data has surfaced that indicates Apple's new smartphones are humbling Samsung's Galaxy S 4 in the US. According to a sales survey conducted by the investment bank Canaccord Genuity, the iPhone 5s outsold the Galaxy 4 S at the US's four major carriers – AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, and T-Mobile – in September, and the 5c is …

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Byz

5S and 5C impressive for different reasons

I have a 5s (as if you've seen previous posts I train people in app programming and app writing, so I need one - that's what I tell the wife :o) and the fingerprint scanner is a real game changer as you you don't need to type in a passcode (only been using it 3 days and boy does it make a difference). Before I used it I thought the difference would be negligible.

The 5c has made one of my teenage daughters offer money towards buying one for her as a Christmas present (normally she is so tight with her money she'd make Scrooge look like a philanthropist).

So even though it didn't seem to be much of a change I think Apple has tapped into something here that wasn't obvious.

Now that I've used a 5s for a few days I wouldn't want to go back to typing a long password any more.

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JDX
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Re: 5S and 5C impressive for different reasons

Do you have to focus on using the fingerprint scanner, or do you find if you pick it up "the right way" (!) it automatically detects your finger and unlocks without you having to think about it?

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Re: 5S and 5C impressive for different reasons

You mean like Google's face recognition... sometimes I pick the phone up and it naturally unlocks when it catches glimpse of my handsome visage.

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Re: 5S and 5C impressive for different reasons

Fingerprint readers have been used for authentication on mobile devices since at least the Microsoft PocketPC devices from years ago, and probably even before that. How is it not obvious that they can be used in this way?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: 5S and 5C impressive for different reasons

They weren't "touch" and unlock readers. They were more cumbersome "slide your finger" readers. If they worked so well why did it take Apple to re-introduce them to the mass market?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: 5S and 5C impressive for different reasons

You have to use the fingerprint scanner to believe how good it is and how easy it is to use - it is a game changer in authentication. Yes - others will copy it and make out it's not a big deal but as a way of improving security (especially when half of all phones do not even have a passcode.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: 5S and 5C impressive for different reasons

Or a photo of your face?

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Byz

Re: 5S and 5C impressive for different reasons

@JDX

The trick is to scan you finger print the way you naturally use it, so my thumb is at 45 degrees to the phone.

It takes multiple scans and then gets you to roll you finger (or thumb) around so it gets a larger scan.

Then it just works :o

It is so convenient that it seems that the phone is not locked, I am actually impressed (having tried other finger print scanners in the past), best I've seen and no-one else has been able to unlock it :)

Plus the slow motion video is also fun 120 frames per second.

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Wait until

They bring out limited edition colours for the iPhone 5c.....

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Anonymous Coward

@ JDX

The scanner really does works, my only gripe is that it only records 5 fingers and as I am ambidextrous I have used up four spaces with my fingers and thumbs. My son has the other space so that he can play games on it.

Pick it up anyway you want it just works.

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JDX
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Struggling

Why would people downvote a)someone asking a genuine question b)someone who takes the time to give real hands-on feedback.

Get back to jacking off to the Linux source code, you bunch of spotty virgins.

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Re: 5S and 5C impressive for different reasons

Why has Apple re-introduced them??? and is it THAT hard to slide your finger over a sensor to unlock?

Why is it whenever Apple put something on the mobile that has been around for ages in other areas its an innovation? NO its EVOLUTION, shrinking of technology means technology will evolve to use it no matter what...

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Re: 5S and 5C impressive for different reasons

MrXavia,

I haven't used a new iPhone, so the fingerprint thingymajig may be a load of rubbish. But I did have a laptop with one of the standard pull/scan-my-finger type of sensors, and it was totally rubbish. You had to look at the scanner, precisely orient your finger in the correct way, and slowly slide it across the slot at an even speed. And your reward was that it worked about 1 time out of 3.

Whereas the Apple one is on a depression in the face of the phone, in a place your thumb naturally goes to to turn the thing on, and does the scanning in the gesture that you'd be using anyway. So it looks to me like a much better implementation - assuming it actually works.

Is it innovation? Yes and no. Other people could have done it, but they didn't. They couldn't be arsed. Business laptops have had these piss-poor fingerprint readers on them for at least the last decade, and they've been shit for at least the last decade.

So do Apple deserve to be praised to the skies for their brilliance? No. Do they deserve credit for seeing that only half their users were password locking their phones, and making an effort to come up with a workable solution that's simple enough that it might actually get used? Yes.

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Re: 5S and 5C impressive for different reasons

@MrXavia:

Seriously?

It's a different kind of sensor to the crap sensors used in the past! It's been explained in any number of articles that this is a capacitative sensor with the equivalent of a 500 dpi resolution that looks beneath the surface of the skin. It's not an old optical surface scanner as used on those old, less reliable, sensors.

Your assertion is like claiming that iPhone 4's "retina" display was just a gimmick because "every phone has a display".

The iPhone 5s isn't the first phone to include a fingerprint sensor, no, but it is the first to include one that is (a) not shit, and (b) actually integrated right into the OS at a very deep level, making it far more useful.

Apple are all about creating a seamless user experience. They only include a technology if it will actually enable them to improve that. Any new technology they include in their products therefore has to be integrated at a very deep level in order to provide that appearance of seamlessness.

(And, before the usual bunch of ignorant haters jump in: no, they're not perfect. Last time I checked, neither were any of Apple's competitors.)

Nothing I've written above should be even remotely surprising to regular readers of El Reg as all the evidence has been right there, out in the open: Neither Jobs nor Apple have ever hidden this information from the public. They've even produced TV spots explaining all this. And not just that one either. Many of their ads are there to educate people about Apple's philosophy of making design and the user experience – not merely shovelling raw, unprocessed technology into a box for its own sake – their top priority.

They've been doing this for at least fifteen years now.

What more do they have to do? How long will it take for some of you to grok that Apple are not Microsoft or LG and are successful precisely because of how they differ in their approaches to product design and production?

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Re: 5S and 5C impressive for different reasons

I'm sure it's fine, but the problem is that this small feature is trumpeted as being the best thing ever - and then you launch into your marketing speech praising everything about them - whilst other features for companies are ignored. Why not praise the face-unlock in Android too? (And I don't use the fingerprint scanner in my laptop, not because it doesn't work, but because it's quick enough typing a password; I don't use face-unlock either, finding in pin Just Works fine.)

Same as with "retina" - why aren't you praising every other increase in resolution, before and after, since apart from 2010, it's been other phones that have had the highest resolution?

Most other companies only include technology if it improves things. Everything you say applies to most other technology companies - Microsoft and LG included (I love my LG TV, and I'd gladly upgrade to an LG Nexus). They're not special. Other companies aren't perfect, which as you say isn't any different either.

So to conclude, they're just like any other company - no need to evangelise.

"not merely shovelling raw, unprocessed technology into a box for its own sake"

I'll remember that when I hear someone credit for having the first 64-bit phone. Or going on about "retina".

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Re: 5S and 5C impressive for different reasons

Actually this whole story about Apple and their fingerprint sensor is full of FUD, hyperbole and blatant theft from Samsung. The truth is Samsung had applied for using this very same Authentec sensor in the Galaxy S3. Because Samsung was already using Authentec sensors in notebooks since 2005 and had even planned to put them in it's first Origami UMPC ("Ultra Mobile PC" 2007 tablet PC) well before iPad even. Their Patent Application was in 2011, a year before Apple's. It was for one in the Home Button and the proof was just discovered this year. When a coded image was found in the Galaxy S3's firmware. People want to deny this... because they also put several other locations in this patent.

http://www.biometricupdate.com/201305/rumors-point-to-an-embedded-fingerprint-sensor-for-galaxy-devices

But our Appleholic USPTO ignored it and it didn't get approved till after the image was discovered and made public, just this year. Meanwhile, Samsung since they had been running this very same sensor technology in Notebooks was having the same problems Apple is having now.... chip yields. They had also found out how weak and hackable the security in this technology was. So it didn't make it into Galaxy S3.

Apple in the meantime, had been trying to buy Authentec out from under Samsung. After they had found out from a patent search that Samsung was going to possibly use Authentec's sensor in the Galaxy S3, while discovering their Patent. Which is why they only applied for a patent for a hand print scan under the screen a year after Samsung's application. They had no sensor for one in the Home Button, until just recently modified to fix this failure. So Apple actually ended up way over paying for Authentec's now failed technology, hacked by fake prints.

Yet Apple had gone after the very same company that their biggest competitor had been using for then 7yrs. Was this anti-competitive? What they got though.... was a bio-metric technology doomed to fail. Because it only scans the surface layer. Unlike Validity's technology that uses Deep Tissue scanning to prevent the HACK that your 5s is susceptible to. Meanwhile Samsung scrambled to find a replacement sensor for GS4 and to fix that problem, that Apple apparently couldn't.

After Apple bought Authentec out from under them and had Authentec discontinue support for former customers like Samsung, only then did they file for a patent that got approved immediately.... naturally by a now totally consumed Appleholic USPTO like you and the Register's writer here. Anti-competitive? You better believe it!

http://www.biometricupdate.com/201305/uspto-grants-samsung-patent-for-embedded-fingerprint-sensor

So how do you think Samsung found out about Authentec's failure on small devices? Easy.... they are partners with Motorola. Who had an Authentec sensor in the Atrix two years ago. This is why Moto was dissing and laughing at Apple. Because they already knew Authentec's fingerprint sensor technology was doomed to be hacked even by kids on YouTube videos!!! lol....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJpu9PP3U1w

But every other phone maker now has opted for Validity's far superior technology and algorithms. While Authentec had been sitting on technology that had already been set up to fail back in 2002. When a hacker had published a how to hack their fingerprint sensor way back then. Can Apple somehow save Authentec? Well hey'll try for sure, but meanwhile you have an iPhone 5s that can be hacked by novices and children! ...Enjoy It while it lasts, but don't use it to buy stuff for sure!!!

http://www.validityinc.com/

So both Motorola and it's fellow Android partner... Samsung are snickering and laughing about Apple's misfortune in paying so much for technology doomed to fail! :DDD

btw... Samsung has just broke their own smartphone sales record this last Quarter, by selling between 85 and 89 Million Smartphones in September Quarter. Putting them on target to sell well over 300 Million Smarterphones this year! ;-P .....and that compared to Apple only headed for a measly by comparison 150 million iPhone w/ sensors conned by kids, monkeys, cats and dogs prints!

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I'm trying to be interested, really I - oo look a butterfly.

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Best.

... comment ever.

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Stop press! Newer phones outsell older phones!

I look forward to reading the inverse of this story when the S5 arrives. And then reading it the same way around again when the iPhone 6 arrives.

(it is interesting to see the 5C gaining proportionally on the 5S though; I'm still not sure about its potential, on the grounds that (i) it's not particularly cheap; and (ii) the coloured plastic with a black front looks a bit odd)

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Re: Stop press! Newer phones outsell older phones!

In Canada Apple is advertising the crap out of the 5c. On TV and in the Mall where every store that sells phones has a giant poster of that back of a 5c in the front window.

If the 5s is still #1 in three months it will be more interesting. Now it's just the normal new phone blip.

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Joke

@ Thom - HRe: Stop press! Newer phones outsell older phones!

> . . .

it is interesting to see the 5C gaining proportionally on the 5S though

. . . <

Easy explanation: More people actually want the 5C, there just weren't enough of them about. Now that enough people have traded in their old iPhone5 for a new 5S, there's enough of them about that can be resold with a plastic back as a new iPhone 5C.

3.) Profit

Not sure if icon appropriate.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Stop press! Newer phones outsell older phones!

If Apple is so far behind then why would that matter?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: @ Thom - HStop press! Newer phones outsell older phones!

No surprise - the 5C is a fantastic phone at a competitive price - it's basically the previous 5 with a new skin and appeals to a much wider market. Expect to see some similar looking competitor phones soon.

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Re: Stop press! Newer phones outsell older phones!

Stop press! Heavily promoted and press hyped product sells well in home market shocker.

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WTF?

Re: Expect to see some similar looking competitor phones soon.

Yeah, I can't wait to see some of the Android and Windows Phone manufacturers release some plastic cased phones available in different colours.

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Re: Stop press! Newer phones outsell older phones!

"Stop press! Newer phones outsell older phones!"

You're sarcasm would work better if the S4 had outsold the iPhone 5, an older phone, but it didn't outsell that either.

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Re: Stop press! Newer phones outsell older phones! (@SuccessCase)

This news story is Canaccord Genuity stating that the new iPhones have outsold the Galaxy S4. In June Canaccord Genuity stated that the Galaxy S4 was outselling the old iPhone.

Here: http://www.informationweek.com/mobility/smart-phones/samsung-galaxy-s4-outsells-iphone-5/240156177

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Re: Stop press! Newer phones outsell older phones! (@SuccessCase)

Thom, Thom, Thom, are you seriously presenting 1 months data in the month immediately prior to the new iPhone release as indicative of iPhone 5 sales performance versus Galaxy S4 ? Sales figures, which also exclude Apple Stores, you know, only the most successful retail stores in the world very much on the strength of iPhone sales !!! Really !!?

Why do you think Apple provide a breakdown of iPhone shipments and Samsung don't break out the sales of their Galaxy line of phones?

Hint, because they aren't anywhere close.

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Re: Stop press! Newer phones outsell older phones! (@SuccessCase)

BTW, iPhone 5 sold twice as many as the S4 during the launch weekend. It has sold 89m units (the majority of that figure is to end users, not to channel) over 12 months including overlap with S4 launch. The S4 has sold 20m units to channel in the first 3 months (which, being a new release, should be, by a long way, the strongest quarter) and Samsung have since reported an unexpected slowdown which means they will miss targets (as they are obliged to report this as a public listed company). The extent of this slowdown is not yet clear. Plus reported sales do not yet include overlap with the iPhone 5S being on sale, so it can be expected sales of the Galaxy S4 will be further reduced due to competition, So basically the chance of the Galaxy S4 getting close to iPhone 5 sales figures is zero.

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Re: @ Thom - HStop press! Newer phones outsell older phones!

>it's basically the previous 5 with a new skin

Or plastic cover, as we normally call them.

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Re: Stop press! Newer phones outsell older phones! (@SuccessCase)

@SuccessCase

I think the data backs up your claim on individual models: Apple significantly outsells the Samsung flagship. But seeing as Samsung has a multi-model strategy, and this year it's a plethora, that's hardly surprising. As a result Samsung will definitely sell more Galaxys than Apple sells I-Phone. In addition, that the S4 was the biggest selling phone on several networks for several months is impressive and will continue to build the Samsung brand.

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Re: Stop press! Newer phones outsell older phones! (@SuccessCase)

Hi Charlie, well said. You will see my original comment was in response to the sarcastic headline "Stop press! Newer phones outsell older phones!" and I pointed out the sarcasm was misplaced. The iPhone 5 has outperformed S4 sales by a considerable margin. The Samsung Galaxy line has done well. Especially the Galaxy note as a clear popular second choice. It is still unclear however if the Galaxy handset line as a whole is outselling the iPhone range as a whole (remember when the 5 was on sale the 4S and 4 remained on sale and were both continued to sell strongly). And then if tablets are also taken into account, the answer is almost certainly that iOS is outselling the Galaxy range by some margin.

Can the comparison be made? There are figures for the relative sales of iPhone 4 versus 4S versus 5. It may be possible to do something with the second chart on this excellent report to extract the Galaxy range figures:

http://opensignal.com/reports/fragmentation-2013/

but the ratio's and data-points are constrained to launch date --> present day for each model, so getting an equivalent point in time to compare recent performance is fraught with difficulty. I still strongly suspect the Galaxy range as a while is not outselling the iPhone range for either phones or tablets, because if it was, Samsung would have found a way to publicise the story. In my experience there is only ever one reason a public listed company will not publicise relative sales performance figures and that is as a measure against the competition, they are not as good as people might otherwise think they are.

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Re: Stop press! Newer phones... @CharlieClark

WTF do you think you're playing at, trying to bring your crazy brand of rationality into this? Troll.

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Gimp

Re: @ WhoaWhoa - HStop press! Newer phones outsell older phones!

Don't you dare call the new, innovative, magical, never seen before, revolutionary iSkin "Plastic"

Heresy, I say! Burn the heretic!

Only Samsung, Motorola, Nokia, etc. use cheap plastic.

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Only news when it's Apple...

It's also worth noting that this is just one country, one month (and one survey). So, given the large numbers of countries that phones are sold in, and the 12 months a year, why isn't every time a phone is best selling in a country news? (Especially as the US market has always been very different to the rest of the world - e.g., Nokia never having had much presence, it always being iphone's strongest market, and Android has far less of a lead.)

There's also the point that Apple always do better on individual devices sales, because they have far fewer devices - if we're really comparing Apple to Samsung, then we should compare Apple to Samsung. How do total sales compare I wonder?

From the article:

"The sales stats are striking, seeing as how Apple's new iPhones didn't go on sale until September 20"

Well no, not really, because you have all the rush of early buyers and pre-orders. If anything, I would expect this to favour the phone just released, and it's a known fact especially for Apple that their sales are very seasonal. Will we get a news item if in 6 months' time, the S4 is leading again in the US? And 9 million? IIRC the S4 was 9 million on pre-orders alone, and that was for *one* phone, not two.

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Re: Stop press! Newer phones outsell older phones!

I agree (endless hype and advertising here in the UK too) - but also Apple have long held the "single best selling device" for years even worldwide I think (which as I say in my other comment, isn't due to higher overall sales than other companies or platforms, but far fewer models). So it's interesting that we've gone from "Always having the best selling device" to "It sometimes does, and sometimes doesn't", even in the iphone's best market, the US...

I think a rough history from the media is:

2007: Apple sell a million in 76 days (let's forget sales of Symbian, Blackberry and even Windows Mobile)!

~2009: iphone sells more than Android! (what's Symbian?)

~2010?: Okay, Android sells more, but Apple sell more than Samsung (who are Nokia?)

2011: Okay, Samsung sell more, but the iphone is the best selling phone!

2013: For this month, in one country, the newly released iphone is the best selling phone!

And when a Samsung device reclaims the lead, mark my words, the trick will be to combine the 5S and 5C sales together as if they were one.

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Re: Stop press! Newer phones outsell older phones! (@SuccessCase)

@SuccessCase

I still strongly suspect the Galaxy range as a while is not outselling the iPhone range for either phones or tablets, because if it was, Samsung would have found a way to publicise the story

I'm not quite sure if we're on the same page here. Worldwide Samsung is definitely selling more Galaxys than Apple is selling I-Phones - the numbers were in the 2012 results and I think there's little discussion about them. Things probably still favour Apple if you include tablets where the I-Pad still is the market leader and where Samsung is competing not only with Apple but also with Google and Amazon. Regarding larger tablets it has taken Android longer to catch up with Apple than in the 7" sector which it created.

But maybe you're referring solely to the US market? If so, then you could well be right: Apple definitely has a "home" brand bonus in the US and, as far as I understand the tariff model, seems to favour premium models through higher tariffs. There does indeed seem to be a significant and persistent difference between the USA and the rest of the world. At least in Germany the pricing seriously favours Samsung, and indicates Apple's much fatter margins. You can get an S4 (16 GB) for € 241+ tariff (from € 5 per month), an I-Phone 5s (16GB) will cost you €550 + at least € 18 a month. It's impressive that Apple is still able to command such a premium in many places but outside the US the hardware/software combination it looks increasingly tenuous.

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Happy

Re: Stop press! Newer phones... @CharlieClark

WTF do you think you're playing at, trying to bring your crazy brand of rationality into this? Troll.

Sorry about that! I'll try and improve next time! :-D

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Am I missing something on these charts? Like numbers? Just wondering what amounts to 'dope-slap'. Poked around the investment bank's website and looked at the CNN article, and I can't find any numbers anywhere, other than the $100/200 things, which I'm assuming are sale prices for the handsets(?)

Any chance of getting some real information?

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Anonymous Coward

Quite ... for all we know Apple outsold Samsung by 1 phone across the whole of the country. Hardly a "dope slap" but this is The Register after all......

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http://www.asymco.com/2013/09/23/iphones-5c-and-5s-launch-performance-illustrated/

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Also...

Apple sells two models, and these get compared against one model of Samsung, but their portfolio is much more diversified (S4, S4 active, note, ...) and Samsung is about to release newer models so it's in a natural dip.

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Re: Also...

These statistics ignore sales of the Galaxy Note, and many other Samsung phones. It seems a little devious to ignore sales of these other phones. It would be more meaningful to compare total sales of all current Samsung phones with total sales of all current Apple phones.

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Anonymous Coward

And the pride drop?

Why would Apple leave money on the table by dropping prices so much? On second thought, who cares? Just everyone have a price war.

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shocker

new phone out sells 5 month old model in first weeks..

I think if anything Samsung should be worried about their over hyping of that new watch thingamabob, seems like pretty much nobody likes it.

Still waiting for a 64G Note 3.

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Re: shocker

It's a different market but it is interesting to see how Samsung has created its own very loyal base for the Note.

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"Film at 11"

Phone that just came out outsells phone that has been on the market for six months. Film at 11.

That said, I hope Samsung reverses this recent craziness of SIM locking.

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JDX
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Shall we all bookmark this thread

So when the Android fanbois start bleating about the new Samsung/Google phone outselling iPhone5S in a few months, we can remind them that outselling an old phone isn't a big deal?

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