Feeds

back to article You put up with CRAPPY iOS 7. You can put up with Obamacare too, says prez

President Barack Obama has urged Americans to be patient during the launch of his US healthcare reforms - reminding them that Apple's iOS 7 rollout suffered glitches too and yet everyone put up with that. The website for the country's new health insurance "marketplace" - dubbed Obamacare - has been beset with problems amid a …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.

Page:

FAIL

Smartphone users have more choices.

If you don't like Android, you can switch to iOS or Windows Phone. With the ACA, users are being forced to buy a Palm Pilot with BMW prices. We're not talking about forms bugs here or misspellings. What's going on here is an epic fail. The White House also tried to hide how many pages are required in some of their forms by placing some of them in an "appendix". Clever they are.

18
44
Thumb Up

Re: Smartphone users have more choices.

BMW prices? That's debatable but at least people are going to get the service they need when they need it.

To use your metaphor, people in the past would pay for their phone every month and then, when they had to make a call, were likely to be kicked off the service...

41
9
Silver badge

A Free gun with every policy

Obama missed a trick here, he should have offered a free assault rifle with every Obamacare Policy...

The Republicans would have been running to vote for that....

25
12
Silver badge
Facepalm

Re: Palm Pilot with BMW prices

Pre-ACA ie current situation is that US spends at least double on healthcare compared to Canada, UK, France, Japan, Germany and comparable western countries*. US Government spends about half of that, meaning US government already spends a little bit more than all the other governments, and on top of that US citizens spend the same again (while citizens of the other countries spend next to nothing). At the same time, US has the highest infant mortality rate, and the lowest life expectancy at birth.

So, actually, US already has Palm Pilot with BMW prices.

ACA aims to get a bit more quality with a bit less cost, and good luck with that. However I think US will never have a good** healthcare system as long as they continue to regard any government-run health service as a commie plot against their freedoms.

*source - Financial Times a couple of days ago. Costs are in %age of GDP

**meaning, comparable results to the countries mentioned above, at comparable cost

38
8

Re: Palm Pilot with BMW prices

@James Micallef - Nail, meet head.

7
4
Anonymous Coward

Re: A Free gun with every policy

Looks like you missed the point of the Reply button.. Again

3
4
Anonymous Coward

Re: Palm Pilot with BMW prices

"According to our records it looks like you vote Republican. The medical procedure you need will be denied at this time."

9
1
Meh

Re: Smartphone users have more choices.

You don't know that. Right now all we're talking about is being able to buy insurance at, what seems, a reasonable price. No one knows how that will translate into "care when they need it." That remains to be seen.

Health insurance != health care.

9
2
Silver badge
Mushroom

Re: A Free gun with every policy

> Obama missed a trick here, he should have offered a free assault rifle with every Obamacare Policy...

> The Republicans would have been running to vote for that....

With others in control of what I am allowed to buy, I entirely expect that the increase in my monthly insurance premiums will be so bad that the difference would be enough to buy an entirely new "assault rifle" every month.

I would be much less opposed to a new tax than corporate welfare for the insurance industry.

4
3
Silver badge
Devil

Re: Palm Pilot with BMW prices

> "According to our records it looks like you vote Republican. The medical procedure you need will be denied at this time."

If you manage your finances consistent with your stated political views, that won't be a problem.

Just pay cash. Take it out of your HSA.

Being a ward of the state is simply unnecessary.

0
5
Silver badge

Health insurance != health care.

Well said.

Let's not forget that the whole point of this is to force the healthy younger generation in their mid-20s to 30s buying full insurance they likely won't need to theoretically drive down the cost of insurance for the elderly and those with "pre-existing" conditions. I don't see it reducing the percentage of GDP spent on health care since any decreases in the amount spent in one group will be more than made up for by the cost imposed on another. It's just another tax to shift money around under the guise of commerce.

The question the ACA doesn't address is the potential shortage of doctors which may or may not materialize.

4
2

Re: Palm Pilot with BMW prices

"The medical procedure you need will be denied at this time."" That's because brain transplants aren't available yet.

2
3
Anonymous Coward

Re: Palm Pilot with BMW prices

Since I got voted up and this site is mainly visited by socialists people must have misunderstood. Let me make clear what I meant: This "health care" system will be used as a weapon against people critical of the Obama regime just as the IRS was and still is. Count on it.

4
10
Anonymous Coward

Re: Smartphone users have more choices.

The Americans don't like sharing some money for the greater good, they like to hoard all their money and the poor can just f*ck off.

The UK is becoming like that now.

5
3
Silver badge
Joke

Re: A Free gun with every policy

That's why he mentioned Apple's servers, and not GTA V's!

1
0

Re: Palm Pilot with BMW prices

And with ACA we will get a Classic Bell rotary-dial POTS for BMW prices. But it will be government subsidized.

The problem is when the consumer and the payer are not one and the same then the provider loses motivation to please the consumer or hold down prices. The provider is motivated to increase prices and not fix the consumer's problem so the consumer has to keep coming back time and time again.

What we need is to ban mandatory healthcare insurance, just the opposite of what ACA attempts to do. Ban employer-provided healthcare insurance, just the opposite of what ACA attempts to do. Those who desire healthcare insurance should have to shop for it, and pay for it, out of their own unsubsidized pocket.

Employers who are no longer paying for healthcare insurance can make those payments direct to their employees instead.

Look what has happened to the cost of lasik, rarely covered by insurance. Look what has happened to the cost of eyeglasses, rarely covered by insurance. Look what has happened to the cost of dental care, not covered as often by insurance. All have gone down almost as much as AAPL has gone up.

What about The Poor? Open free clinics. Limit the care, no heart bypasses, no liver or kidney transplants.

2
2
FAIL

Re: Smartphone users have more choices.

"To use your metaphor, people in the past would pay for their phone every month and then, when they had to make a call, were likely to be kicked off the service..."

Yes, that is EXACTLY how medical insurance works in the Good Ol' US of A.

0
3
Anonymous Coward

Re: A Free gun with every policy

Perhaps he should have offered a free phone for every one who voted for him,...oh wait....

1
0
Silver badge

Re: Palm Pilot with BMW prices

> What about The Poor? Open free clinics. Limit the care, no heart bypasses, no liver or kidney transplants.

And don't forget to Let them eat cake!

1
1
Paris Hilton

Re: Smartphone users have more choices.

In 2009 I was promised that if I had a insurance policy I liked, I could keep it. Recently, Senator Bill Nelson told me the same thing in an email -- responding to a copy of my policy cancellation letter because my insurance provider would no longer be allowed to contract my policy with me.

The premium for a replacement policy provided through the "marketplace" is lower than my premium, but the policy comes with a deductible whereas mine has a co-pay, and over-all my out-of-pocket expenses will increase.

I have lifetime warranties on my US Robotics 56k Sportsters. During a firmware upgrade, one of them "bricked." When I contacted USR I was told that the utility they provided on the product page was bad and I shouldn't have used it. When I asked about the lifetime warranty, they guy asked me if I had registered my modem. Of course I had, and I even still have the box which notes the lifetime warranty with a serial number which matches the modem. Then I was asked if I still had confirmation of my registration. Well, actually, no, I don't. You see, we moved away from that old system a long time ago and no longer have access to those registrations, so unless you can provide proof of registration we cannot honor the warranty.

A lifetime warranty with no promise of service.

1
0

Re: Health insurance != health care.

This is why Canadians who live near the US border have it made. Treatment from US doctors is covered, so the shortage of doctors in Canada is not that big of an issue. Not sure what happens when the doctor shortage spreads to the US though.

1
0

Re: Smartphone users have more choices.

You also have a choice, If you dont like the US, move to another country :-)

0
0
Silver badge

I haven't put up with Apple's OS's for decades, Obama.

Stuffing humans into a pigeon-hole isn't something Ben Franklin would approve of ...

8
14
Bronze badge

Re: I haven't put up with Apple's OS's for decades, Obama.

Yes, because that was the point of the analogy.

5
5

This post has been deleted by its author

Anonymous Coward

Re: I haven't put up with Apple's OS's for decades, Obama.

No, indeed, I'm sure that Ben Franklin would have been much happier with disproportionate levels of infant mortality, the poorest in society being left to die because they didn't have enough money and the rich paying a disproportionate amount of money for their health care. Especially when the rest of the comparable world seems to pay far less for better systems of health care.

5
7
Silver badge
Devil

Re: I haven't put up with Apple's OS's for decades, Obama.

The poorest aren't "left to die". If anything they abuse emergency services and are a disproportunate drain on the system. Since hospitals (even non-profits) are essentially run by profiteers, they have no interest in curbing this. They also inflate their invoices making any analysis of healthcare in general more difficult.

More insurance is really not the solution to that problem.

5
4
Anonymous Coward

Re: I haven't put up with Apple's OS's for decades, Obama.

The rest of the "comparable world" comes to the US when they have real health issues. Pre-ACA the reimbursements for Medicare and Medicaid to doctors are so low that doctors that can are refusing new patients if they are on Government Health plans. The good doctors that I see right now say they will close up shop if the ACA becomes law because they won't be able to pay their bills with the ultra-low payments.

I don't know how doctors ever pay off their college bills with the high costs of running a medical practice and protect oneself from frivolous lawsuits (read: malpractice insurance).

1
1
Anonymous Coward

Re: I haven't put up with Apple's OS's for decades, Obama.

"The rest of the "comparable world" comes to the US when they have real health issues"

Just because there are a couple of examples of people coming to the USA for extremely specialist treatment, doesn't equate to your statement. Furthermore, I would rather live in a country where routine treatment is given to everyone - before it becomes a complex expensive life threatening problem - and ultra specialist treatment wasn't as easy to get. You also imply that no-one ever leaves the USA in order to get treatment elsewhere.

My friends in the US have to pay to see their GP (MD, I believe to Americans) no matter what they go for. This means that poor people don't go to the doctor until things are badly wrong.

The idea that a doctor would refuse a patient in the UK is just something that doesn't compute, with the exception that the patient is violent.

The Hippocratic oath states: Do No Harm.

2
2
Bronze badge

Re: I haven't put up with Apple's OS's for decades, Obama.

> If anything they abuse emergency services and are a disproportunate drain on the system.

Spurious malpractice litigation is, by orders of magnitude, a bigger abuse of the system than 'the poorest' draining the emergency services.

1
0
Silver badge

Re: I haven't put up with Apple's OS's for decades, Obama.

>> If anything they abuse emergency services and are a disproportunate drain on the system.

> Spurious malpractice litigation is, by orders of magnitude, a bigger abuse of the system than 'the poorest' draining the emergency services.

A single ER visit is likely to run 10K without even getting into treatment.

Med-Mal premiums for an ER doctor are 70K.

Your tort-reform astroturfing is just poorly informed nonsense.

0
2
Bronze badge

Re: I haven't put up with Apple's OS's for decades, Obama.

"Since hospitals (even non-profits) are essentially run by profiteers, they have no interest in curbing this. They also inflate their invoices making any analysis of healthcare in general more difficult."

Ain't "free" enterprise grand !

Corporate welfare is fine (GM etc), but everyone else can fend for themselves, and the Devil take the hindmost.

0
0

Re: I haven't put up with Apple's OS's for decades, Obama.

I think if you go actually look it up you will find that, while the US has the highest infant mortality rate of several western nations, for the past several decades the infant mortality rate has dropped at about the same rate in all of those countries, including the US. Infant mortality has been higher in the US all along, but it has dropped at the same rate as the others. Certainly shows nothing related to the poorest being left to die. For one thing, the poorest have received free healthcare in the US for quite some time. It is those in between that don't have healthcare coverage, in other words those with low paying jobs who make just enough to not qualify for free healthcare.

1
0

I guess this is what happens when there's not enough money to pay the PR team.

4
0
Anonymous Coward

Facinating

I still find it amazing that so few in the great USA have proper healthcare, the idea that if you have cancer and don't have a healthcare plan (and even if you do have a crappy plan) you will die much earlier than most other 1st world nations, by earlier I mean "go home and find a gun and shoot someone" early or get treated and die in poverty from going broke.

What is more facinating is the "turkeys voting for christmas" with the hope that "they" personally won't need healthcare so they don't have to pay for someone else who will get ill.

Well if it's what the less well off want let them have it.

25
8
Silver badge

Re: Facinating

Yeah, I've always been amazed that those commies/socialists/marxists offering car and house insurance are allowed to peddle their commie/socialist/marxist wares in the US. It's the land of the free and the independent - it's so unamerican to spread the risk and costs.

10
6
Bronze badge

Re: Facinating

The more amazing thing is that the US already pays a larger percentage of public money on health care than many countries - they just get a much shittier service in return.

7
3
Silver badge

Re: Facinating

"Well if it's what the less well off want let them have it."

It's not what they want - it's one of the two equally nasty options they are being given.

1. No health care unless you are heavily insured (which you can't afford). And when you do claim, you find your specific condition is excluded by the small print anyway. (REPUBLICAN)

2. Government comes to your aid! You are FORCED to buy insurance whether you want to or not, and fined if you don't. (DEMOCRAT)

Not like the UK, where money is forcibly extracted from the more well off and used to pay for everyone's health care. (Except the really well off, who can afford to pay really big insurance premiums).

3
3
Anonymous Coward

Re: Facinating

Indeed, a backwards country. They can't even see how essential free healthcare is. Something we take for granted.

12
7
Anonymous Coward

Re: Facinating

The contention is that the federal government shouldn't be doing this, and that the states should handle their own healthcare affairs. Let's not forget, the insurance fiasco that was used to justify the ACA was caused by federal regulations severely restricting the ability of us citizens to purchase and maintain health insurance across state lines.

If you want socialised "free" healthcare then follow the Swedish model, which maintains both control and funding of healthcare provision as locally as possible, providing a system that is responsive to local needs rather than the centrally mandated system the us is moving towards.

It's clear that the ACA implements a system similar to the French insurance system, which works works rather well for what it is, but they're doing so in the most intrusive and authoritarian manner possible - in a way that would have the "socialist" French burning down Paris in protest. The amount of detail they require from the individual (all stored in a nice, easily accessible central database - an NSA wet-dream) and the fines that will be levied against those who don't volunteer it are just two issues.

And ask yourself this: if it's so great, why is congress exempt?

It's worth asking that about a lot of laws, come to think of it. If the implementers of the law exempt themselves from its provisions, then it is not a just law.

10
2

Re: Facinating

"And ask yourself this: if it's so great, why is congress exempt?"

I'm not sure that I would be the best person to answer that...can I ask someone else? Or google it to find whether it is actually true...

http://thedailybanter.com/2013/10/that-thing-about-congress-being-exempted-from-obamacare-huge-whopper-lie/

5
6
Silver badge

Re: Facinating

Free healthcare socialist or communist?

Hmm no, I think the word is simply - Civilised.

9
7
Anonymous Coward

Re: Facinating

@Tom Welsh - In the UK we're FORCED to pay for our health care with National Insurance, taken from our pay, OR unemployment benefits or did you think we got it for free?

It's free at the point of need, not free from cost.

9
0

Re: Facinating

I would be ok with seeing how it all works out if EVERYONE in the US was subject to it. No exemptions for the politically connected and void all waivers.

4
0
Silver badge
Mushroom

Re: Facinating

> Free healthcare socialist or communist?

> Hmm no, I think the word is simply - Civilised.

No. The term for that is socialist and there's really no getting around it.

EMBRACE your inner communist rather than trying to deny it.

Trying to call it something else is just dishonest.

A free society doesn't mean you get free stuff. It means that you have enough free will that you can be responsible for your own success or your own failure.

5
6

Re: Facinating

You're repeating "talking points" (euphemism for lies) that come from Republican politicians.

I queried our state exchange to see what policy options exist for someone my age (not quite Medicare eligible) and someone much younger. The prices were quite reasonable, competitive with my current small-employer group plan rate. The intrusive questions they ask are a) your income (to see if you get a subsidy; if you're above the subsidy range, it's just a check-off, no number required), b) your date of birth (old still pays more, though the range is limited), and c) if you smoke. That's it. Then you get a set of prices, and it's all guaranteed issue, so you don't have to worry about being turned down. In my case there are 90 plans offered from about ten private insurance companies.

Compare to the old system, where either your employer bought you a group plan, or you had to try to find private coverage. Which costs a fortune, has exclusions for pre-existing conditions, or they just flat-out refuse to issue the policy because of pre-existing conditions (Healthy Members Only). If the new system is communism (which is like saying that Groucho Marx was a duck), all hail Marx and Lennon!

4
2
Anonymous Coward

Re: Facinating

@JEDDIAH: Socialist is not Communist. Communists are socialists, but that is a subset.

In the UK and much of the rest of the world, we have decided that our free society means that everyone has the right to free (at the point of use) healthcare. There is no point in being free if you're dead because you can't afford the upkeep on your freedom.

3
2

Re: Facinating

Congress is not exempt. Stop repeating that lie.

3
2
Anonymous Coward

Re: Facinating

You think it is un-American to be free to buy what you want? On the other hand you think it is American to be forced to buy something or be extorted money (pay the fine also known as "protection money")? Maybe in Bizarro World but then again that is what the US has turned into.

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: Facinating

No country has free health care. How could it be free? Somebody has to pay for it.

0
0

Page:

This topic is closed for new posts.