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back to article Indian spooks snooping without ISP knowledge

India's authorities are carrying out wide-ranging and indiscriminate internet surveillance of their citizens thanks to secret intercept systems located at the international gateways of several large ISPs, according to The Hindu. The Chennai-based paper claimed after an investigation that Lawful Intercept and Monitoring (LIM) …

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Anonymous Coward

So how DOES one declare enough is enough?

Ideally short of a revolution (they'd use it as an excuse to beef up surveillance again), how would us regular folk go about voicing our express discontent with the mess the world is falling into?

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Gimp

Because to a true data fetishist there is *no* such thing as "enough"

And given India's less that Stirling track record on government corruption does anyone think that with 9 agencies involved this information has not been misused by now?

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Gimp

Re: Because to a true data fetishist there is *no* such thing as "enough"

And given India's less that Stirling track record on government corruption does anyone think that with 9 agencies involved this information has not been misused by now?

Corrupt? You could say they learned everything they know from their former colonists.

Stirling's a town in Scotland BTW.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Because to a true data fetishist there is *no* such thing as "enough"

> Stirling's a town in Scotland BTW.

And a pretty corrupt one, if true that the whole of India's record is less than Stirling's.

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Indian Spooks?

British Spooks?

USA Spooks?

China Spooks?

Russian Spooks?

Find me one that isn't spying without ISP's knowledge.....

Actually we all know they are spying with or without permission, I think ISP's know this as well.

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Isn't that what spooks are supposed to do ?

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No Khaptain, spooks are supposed to go after bad guys. It's traditionally been called things like Secret Police, Stasi, KGB, CSP, Gestapo or DINA when you do it to your own citizens.

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But isn't the first step to going after a bad guy IDENTIFYING them? And in a world full of splinter cells and lone wolves, how else are you going to identify the bad guys, particularly the ones within your midst? And since the threat they pose can be potentially existential, it's kinda "no holds barred": you either go Big Brother or let the bad guy at your neck.

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Anonymous Coward

Any You ?

Burston-Marsteller or Raytheon ?

Why don't you just offer your services to the Nork government. Would fit much better.

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Alert

Yes, you have to identify them. You have to identify them while respecting the social norms as set by founding principals, tradition and law. That's why we give the spooks enormous unaccountable budgets and extraordinarily wide latitude in doing their jobs. However, when you begin to look inward you've crossed a line, started down the road to totalitarianism. Not only is it overstepping your mandate, if you can't do your job within the bounds of a free society you are failing in your job.

Already there are people on these forums saying "well, if they're already doing this, why don't we use the information to catch other lawbreakers". That's exactly what politicians will say eventually too. That is unacceptable and insanely dangerous. My wife grew up in a South American dictatorship. She says, minus a bloody regime change, that the stuff going on is how it started down there.

Her uncle and neighbor are among "The Disappeared". She thinks it's sad funny that we stomp around waving our "freedom" in everyone's faces when we're doing exactly what every "regime" in history has ever done. Remove liberties and freedoms one at a time. Next time you look you'll find there are no liberties or freedoms remaining.

That's why this must stop. Stop now. If the agencies in charge are unable to do their job while respecting the liberties and freedoms we have fought and died for then they are unfit for purpose.

I do not have all the answers, but I do know that there will always be risk associated with being alive. No man, woman , agency or nation can ever eliminate that risk. The sheer folly of attempting to eliminate risk, accomplish the impossible, is part of the logic chain that leads to mass scale prisons, camps and executions.

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I get the impression that you actually believe that you live in a democratic society. The spooks have been doing it for years, this is certainely nothing new. ECHELON has been in use since around the 1960's, don't tell my you think they only spy on foreign nations.....

I do not agree with what the spooks are doing but I can understand why they might be doing it. They need to provide evidence/figures that prove they are doing something usefull....BIG DATA provides that evidence. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put a little make-up around the stats...

I very much doubt that the real terrorists are using public networks anyway.... They know how to use encryption and TOR just like everyone else....

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Anonymous Coward

> But isn't the first step to going after a bad guy IDENTIFYING them?

Not by indiscriminate monitoring of your *OWN* entire population, no, it isn't.

> And in a world full of splinter cells and lone wolves

The only thing I can reliably find the World being full of is opportunists trying to capitalise on people's real or imagined fears.

> how else are you going to identify the bad guys

"Bad" by whose definition?

> And since the threat they pose can be potentially existential

Or not. :)

> it's kinda "no holds barred"

No it isn't. Heard of something called "rule of law"?

> you either go Big Brother or let the bad guy at your neck.

That's not true, but if it were I would go with the second option. Cowards may opine otherwise.

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Internet Speed

I wonder how much faster the Internet would be every packet was being inspected at every second hop?

-----------------------------------------------------

The message is deemed to be 67% Terror™-free.

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As has been said before, we should fill all our communications with terror-related words, but.....

I'm afraid to be the first one to do it.

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Anonymous Coward

That's easy. Make a VPN protocol where each byte is replaced by a plain-text word - to decode it requires both ends to have the same code book. Then just load a suitably questionable codebook ^_^

AC since I have actually implemented something vaguely similar.

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Remind me again...

who provides all those network links to the call centres/data centres/service support centres of BT, TalkTalk, Lloyds and the hundred and one other British companies who have outsourced jobs to India? Is it these same ISPs?

So we are not only spied on by Western nations but also India and a host of other nations no doubt. At this rate I'll be worried about going on holiday overseas in case they're waiting to nick me for some minor infraction of their local laws. Then again, I wonder how all the outsourcers feel knowing that their customers data is being watched by the Indians or better still their customers.

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Coat

Code Name...

daNSAk

I'll get my trenchcoat...

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Integrity

And there was me thinking someone or somethings, some where had integrity. Silly me.

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Under HM Govs own rules the when data exits the country it is subject ti the same data protection rules that we have here. In other words, it is held securely and used fairly ... or it's snooped on by all and sundry ...

I think the Data Commisioner bod should be jumping up and down at this point ...

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Anonymous Coward

So They Act Like The Nasty

Government Communications Headquarters ?

Pot meeting Kettle Black etc. etc. etc.

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Anonymous Coward

Encryption

So how do they deal with encrypted comms without access to the ISP? Ok, email might be caught if SMTP hops are not encrypted, but e.g., HTTPS?

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