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back to article 'WTF! MORONS!' Yahoo! Groups! redesign! traumatises! users!

Yahoo! has told thousands of users who are complaining about the Purple Palace's pisspoor redesign of its Groups service that it will not be rolled back to the old format - despite a huge outcry. The Marissa Mayer-run company revamped Yahoo! Groups last week, but it was immediately inundated with unhappy netizens who grumbled …

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Insight.

"Yahoo! has told thousands of users who are complaining about the Purple Palace's pisspoor redesign of its Groups service that it will not be rolled back to the old format - despite a huge outcry. The Marissa Mayer-run company revamped Yahoo! Groups last week, but it was immediately inundated with unhappy netizens who grumbled that the overhaul was glitchy, difficult to navigate and 'severely degraded'".

And to think that just a few days ago the Reg advanced Marissa Mayer as a candidate for Steve Ballmer's job.

That's insight! As this article shows, she could take Ballmer's place and no one would notice any meaningful difference. Possibly this is her way of showing Microsoft that she's up to the job!

(By the way, Yahoo groups has always been vile. It's not easy to imagine them being disimproved but the thought is such that I am not going to venture a look.)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Insight.

Like I said before, Marissa Mayer is to Yahoo and Google, as Elop is to Nokia and Microsoft. Start flushing heavily and when the price drops enough her old employwer will buy them for a discounted rate, while hiring her back as a lead flunky.

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FAIL

Re: Insight.

As someone that's had a perfectly useable *vile* YahooGroup (four actually, with well over 2,000 members on my mailing lists) for the last - oh, 9 years.. you 'web 2.0' folks are missing the point: YahooGroups are a LISTSERV.

That's - Web 1.0 - for those of you with the inability to parse meaning in more than 140 characters.

It's not supposed to look good, it is supposed to work and be a platform for the archiving of USER-created content. Who needs that managerial light and functionally thin, bland white 'facebook-wannabe' bollocks?

Oh wait, that'd be the Short-attention span theater, ADD-afflicted 'look at MEEEEEEEE!!' twenty/thirty-something crowd.

Either way, I don't hold out hope that Yahoo isn't going to make a hash of it, they've got such a screaming inferiority complex about their service and pathetically play the 'keeping up with the facebook' crowd, they've lost sight that Groups don't NEED to be 'updated', when the bulk of the members *most* Groups have use their mail apps for access.

You want to know what's vile? Google Groups and the pathetic attempt at Groups that facebook put up. Boring white pages with banner photos. Cookie-cutter internet.

At least with Yahoo, the Groups could be set up so that interacting with them wasn't an invite to be cyber-stalked by advertisers across the interwebs. Well, it wasn't.. until this latest 'neo' coat-hanger abortion attempt.

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Re: Insight.

"And to think that just a few days ago the Reg advanced Marissa Mayer as a candidate for Steve Ballmer's job."

She is just showing 'strong leadership', just like Steve Jobs did (iirc the Jobsian version of all events that upset Apple users was "I am right ..."). Seems to be a popular leadership model in the IT world these days.

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Coat

@Turtle Re: Insight.

"...unhappy netizens who grumbled that the overhaul was glitchy, difficult to navigate and 'severely degraded'".

"And to think that just a few days ago the Reg advanced Marissa Mayer as a candidate for Steve Ballmer's job."

Sounds like a perfect paring to me. We'd be getting the same as before.

I'll get me coat.

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Re: Insight.

The reg keeps taking a bigger dive into the shitter anyway so it's no surprise.

And the reg has no right to call something a pisspoor redesign when they've got this dumbass flash heavy O2 business theme going on that brings the website to a crawl.

Yeah, thanks Reg for running an ad theme that cripples a computer capable of running high end games, visually processing gigs of mapping data and many other tasks that should be more processor intensive than a lame ad campaign.

I'm ad blocking this site permantly. It's freaking ridiculous.

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@toadwarrior Re: Insight.

Bye!

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Headmaster

Re: @Turtle Insight.

Would that be "paring" as in shaving off unwanted bits until only the edible portion remains? [burp]

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Facepalm

Re: Insight.

Initially I was also more than not impressed with the look and design of the groups, but you get used to them. However, one thing that really pisses me off is that there is no backup function (I asked them, and they responded by thanking me for giving them ideas about how to improve...). I mean, seriously, how can that be?

Or is that fixed with the new version? Then I like it already.

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FAIL

Re: It's perfect

"A vile unfriendly interface for vile unfriendly users"

Oh! Thanks for that.

Our local Freegle/Freecycle runs on Yahoo groups. I thought that I was a fairly normal bloke and quite friendly but obviously not.

So I'm tempted to live up to the sweeping stereotype you espouse and tell you where you can stick it. However, I'm far too polite and friendly

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Anonymous Coward

Re: It's perfect

Yahoo has ruined it for everybody - they moved the dinosaurs' cheese and now we all have to put up with them moaning and upvoting each other

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Re: It's perfect

@Slartybardfast

You are right - I did make a sweeping generalisation and included people in it I did not intend to. My experience of Yahoo has largely been the comments section of the news articles, which has not left me with the best of impressions.

I apologise.

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Re: It's perfect

Use the latest plugin and return it to normal. http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/ModerationPlugin/

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Anonymous Coward

Re: It's perfect

No one forced you to read the comments, let alone comment on it, although you are the the cowardly of cowards

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Pint

Re: It's perfect

@Thomas 4

Good for you +5 internets and a pint.

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What! Is! This! Yahoo! Of! Which! You! Speak?!

Reporting on updates at Yahoo seems as relevant as reporting on updates in Sadville.

Speaking of which, has the last one turned off the lights over there?

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Re: What! Is! This! Yahoo! Of! Which! You! Speak?!

Speaking of which, has the last one turned off the lights over there?

Oh, it's still going. But, at $1000 set-up fee and $300 a month to own a region, I don't know how long for.

You would think Linden Labs would FOSS the server software and have a certification process. Run your own damn sim on your own damn server, link it into the grid, the grid server can ping all the sims/regions and tag them with a quality level, and LL can cream the top off the Lindencash like they usually do. Turn that old PC on your DSL connection into a 16-person region, for example. Or pay Rackspace to run a full size affair. Unfortunately, it seems that sense is a rare commodity amongst Linden Labs.

That and new updates breaking deformations. Everything's going a bit Pete Tong, and people are looking at OpenSimulator, scratching their chins and thinking "hm, perhaps it's good enough".

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This post has been deleted by its author

Re: What! Is! This! Yahoo! Of! Which! You! Speak?!

FROM: Yahoo! Legal

RE: Misuse of Trademark Symbology; Dilution of Brand; Irreverent Punctuation

Dear Mr. Martian:

Pursuant to Article 7, Subsection XI, Subparagraph Q of the Yahoo! Press Room Style Guide, we are writing to inform you use of Yahoo!'s Trademarked exclamation point (the "Yahoosteria Ultima") is governed by U.S. Law, the Internet Highway Contract of Carriage, and international punctuative regulatory agencies.

Per the Y!.P.R.S.G., any headline, sentence, or other word group containing the Yahoo! corporate name must conform strictly to usage rules for the Y.U. itself. Specifically, ". . . neither the Y.U. nor any exclamatory indicator within [any] syntactical grouping may be preceded by a character other than the concluding alphanumeric of the immediately previous discrete word-analog character string."

Consequently, not only is your title mis-punctuated with regard to standard query construction, it is in violation of the Terms and Conditions of the Y!.P.R.S.G., to which all publicly published materials and commentary must conform.

We believe your improper ordering of punctuatorial markage, in combination with inclusion of a mark similar to the Yahoosteria Ultima which concludes our mark, in proximity to our mark, has the potential to cause confusion among consumers and our customers.

While the purpose of this letter is to make you aware of your error, please be advised any further malformation related to the Yahoo! trademark may result in legal action on our part including, but not limited to, punitive damages or remedial English classes.

Regards!

Carlton Smyth

Yahoo! Assistant! General! Counsel!

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Re: M Gale

What is that you say ?

People are actually PAYING for Yahoo!'s Shitty! New! Interface! and they're being ignored on top of it ?

Dear me. You'd think that a company making users pay for using its forums would perhaps, in some way, let them participate in any major redesign that would touch a paying customer's usage habits.

Instead of just doing something, foisting it upon them without any beta feedback and then announcing that it could not be undone.

Unless, of course, Yahoo! did a Microsoft and did do a round of beta, but just ignored the feedback anyway. In which case, reap what you sow, Marissa.

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Re: M Gale

*Coff* nothing to do with the Yahoo forums, and everything to do with "sadville", AKA Second Life, that the OP was going on about.

It's a shame the Lindens don't decentralise the thing and let people run their own sim servers. It has plenty of potential as a build-your-own-MMO engine, but it seems the damagement seems intent on wrecking it and making sure the only people left willing to splurge that much cash on a bit of virtual real-estate are rich furries and the occasional overly-optimistic business.

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FAIL

Always was shit about time it curled up and died

I had to give up on groups several months ago when Yahoo wouldn't let me log into any of my accounts without asking stupid security questions which I had no recollection of ever being asked or answering.

I wasted a couple of hours going round in circles trying to recover gave up.

Seeing this article I found details of an old account and after attempting to log in with name, password and 3 failed capatcha attempts it told me the account had been dormant too long and had been RECYCLED.

WTF RECYCLED? much greener than deleted eh?

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Re: Always was shit about time it curled up and died

I had to give up on groups several months ago when Yahoo wouldn't let me log into any of my accounts without asking stupid security questions which I had no recollection of ever being asked or answering.

Log in, wait for it ask stupid questions, close that tab, open again and it'll take you to your groups page without asking again - for a while.

Yes, it pisses me off, not to mention they really need a streamlined way to handle spam - but it's "free", and you get what you pay for.

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TRT
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The did the same with Flickr...

and that stinks.

Several of my groups have bailed from Yahoo! already.

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The recent changes might explain why subscribers to a group I'm in can't access the Files section (the group is dedicated to electronic drums made by a defunct company called Simmons). It's a shame, because after the initial faffing around to join a group, it's quite a nice way to have a mailing list for niche subjects, along with an archive and file upload area.

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Anonymous Coward

Sounds just like...

Google and it's cr&ptastic new Gmail compose

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Re: Sounds just like...

I like Gmail compose. I find it really convenient. It is sad that it upsets you, but fear not. There are lots of alternatives, and some of them are free too.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Sounds just like...

In what way is going from a perfectly nice and working compose method and reply/forward method all using the same layout and options to 5x different methods progress?

You have the truly awful "Send Email as if it's IM" option where you have a tiny tiny box in the bottom corner of your screen - I mean seriously WTF I'm trying to do business here not be a social media tw&t.

Then you have "Full Screen" which basically is a popup taking 60% of the screen estate - gotta love that definition of "Full Screen" - and if you try it in a small window (like lets say 800x600 because you're on a VNC session over a 2G network connection - yes there are still large parts of Britain that can't get 3G let alone 4G) you get like 1 or 2 lines of email.

Then you have "Full Screen" in a seperate window, and "Full Screen" in a seperate tab - again seriously WTF - if I wanted to compose like that I'd use a real email client like Thunderbird or Outlook.

Then you have "Reply/Forward" which use a completely different interface with a completely different set of options.

And that's not even going into the regressions in functionality.

I appreciate that some people like it - but do a Google (ironic I know) search and you'll find more people complaining about the new Compose than about the Yahoo Groups redesign.

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I last used Yahoo! Groups back in... maybe... 2000? Fecketh me, I didn't think it was still going.

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Trollface

I always thought...

That Yahoo! Groups were the place for cash-strapped high school students to troll for pron... years ago. I'm surprised as you to find out they both still exist and apparently have enough users to get upset about it. You'd think they'd have migrated to other free pron sites by now.

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Facepalm

Yahoo may be crap, but it was reliably crap. Now its broken crap.

Ive stuck with Yahoo for mail, notepad and groups since, oh I dunno, about 2001. The classic interface (read: ancient) was crap, but here is the rub: it worked reliably even when you were on a pentium PC connected to the internet via a satellite link running from a generator. As I happened to find myself in that sort of situation fairly often that was its great advantage. it did not use much javascript, did not do anything cleverly in the background, would work just fine on a WAP phone over GPRS (remember them?), and handled mail and notes just fine. Sure, I am probably not a regular consumer, but the "web app" approach of Gmail and the new Yahoo just sucks as soon as you are on low or delayed bandwidth, so much that they are unusable most of the time. Its a shame they didn't keep a "Classic" option and the drive to a dynamic interface seems to be entirely about advertising and marketing metrics rather than better service. If there was a basic web mail left somewhere on the web I would probably go with that now. Now there's a thought, perhaps I shall build it and some may come...

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Unhappy

Re: Yahoo may be crap, but it was reliably crap. Now its broken crap.

Yeah, I liked the classic email interface because it worked well on all sorts of things. The new style email is a pile of crap that cannot resize itself sensibly for a 1024x600 display, most of the message writing area falls off the bottom of the screen, which could probably be solved with a dab of JavaScript. Way to go...

Anyway, given how they broke email, it isn't a surprise the groups are broken now too. Just check that this "upgrade" didn't bring in new terms and conditions or change what you used to enjoy (as happened with the email upgrade).

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Yahoo may be crap, but it was reliably crap. Now its broken crap.

yep, they give you an option for 'basic' in the preferences of the mail which is marginally better, but it doesn't stick properly even if you save it..

you would have thought that maybe after I'd clicked 'no I don't want the new interface' a thousand times over the past few years they would have understood that I didn't want the new interface.

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FAIL

Been "spending the time" with yahoo customer "care" going on four days now ...

... about yahoogroups. Yep, been told there's no rollback option, the last known-good will not be coming back., "it is not possible to use older versions of the Yahoo! Groups". All I'm getting back to my queries is basic ticklist stuff (verify that javascript is enabled, clear cache and cookies) plus a soupcon of snottiness ("Thanks for spending the time to reach out to us again.", "We know it isn't always easy to get used to change"), which I have to charitably assume is a prod to get customers to explode in foul language, thus giving yahoo an excuse to bin the trouble ticket due to customer "hostility" and clear up those bothersome help desk queues. Maddening that the folks behind this incompetence actually draw paychecks.

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IT Angle

WFM

Just logged in to the Groups console... What is everyone complaining about?

Seems like they just did a "Modern UI" 2D/flat style CSS job and added some more Javascripty crap. Runs perfectly fast on Firefox 17ESR and the emails are still going through to our subscribers...

Granted we're a small private list so maybe it only affects those with 100s-1000s of members? Or perhaps they've just fixed it already?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: WFM

I run several groups - catastrophic problems doing so. Much worse as a listowner than a list user. Lost functionality is a big issue. Can't rescue valid posts from spam, lost the group photo and can no longer pull it from photos - has to be on your hard drive. They finally sort of fixed the search function although it is awkward and impossible to find without instructions (and no searching by post number is not useful in most cases)... I could go on and on but won't.

NEO = neolithic in my opinion

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FAIL

NEO = not entirely operational

A week later, yahoogroups is still broken.

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Holmes

That's odd

I'm usually the first to complain about crappy UI updates, but I just looked and I don't see anything wrong, or even noticeably different, except maybe the color scheme. What was supposed to have changed?

Did Yahoo! back! down! after! all!? Or am I missing something? (I admit I was never a frequent user.)

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Re: That's odd

It is wrong. I just checked it as well and it seems that Yahoo Groups now looks like a clone of the Modern UI look you get on Hotmail/Outlook ... except on the groups page instead of an actual email client site. It rips out the whole idea of "groups" and now looks like Mickeysoft's vision of USENET. Ugly.

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Facepalm

Re: That's odd

I guess it's one of those staggered/randomized roll-outs. So each time you log in you have no idea what you'll get. Yuck.

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Re: That's odd

You haven't been NEOized yet then. It is happening person by person. Log on to a group and you will notice the change big time. Yahoo e-mail hasn't been wrecked yet by NEO so no changes there, just in the groups websites.

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Devil

Re: That's odd

Maybe you haven't been dropped into the Neo version of groups yet! It's changed person by person and not everyone sees the Neo version yet!

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Unhappy

Re: That's odd

> Yahoo e-mail hasn't been wrecked yet by NEO so no changes there, just in the groups websites.

I've seen recent changes to both Notepad and Mail (with /neo/ in URLs in the latter case).

Changes to Mail are just about tolerable on a small screen, but I find Notepad's new layout most uncomfortable when it gets just a small handful of lines. Notepad without the old right-click menu would benefit from tab handling such I now see Mail gets, except that Mail seems to open more of its tabs more often than I trust my system to deal with at its usual(ly high) load levels - I used to be able to choose to avoid that before. I have read that denying javascript permissions renders Inbox's message titles as links again, however the Notepad update breaks completely without javascript support and therefore can no longer be used to cut and paste email content into!

"Quickly spewed on to the interwebs with little testing before going live" - quite.

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Unhappy

If something works ...

Why can't they bloody well leave it alone?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: If something works ...

Yes! Indeed! Total agreement and so-forth!

When I was a kid all I had was a 1200 baud modem and we liked it that way! All this high-speed networking is ruining our children, frightening the elderly, cats and dogs living in sin, etc etc...

Throw your clogs into the gears of the Internet now while you still can!

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Meh

Re: If something works ...

This is classic "new boss, new look and feel for a 'new' company". Orders came from high up that changes had to be made by yesterday at 3:40 and a whole floor of legacy staff (new management term, not mine) had to scramble. No plan, no goals or requirements, just "Make it feel new god damnit".

The crappiest part is that people will likely lose their jobs over this.

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FAIL

Re: If something works ...

stuff it up. What has happened to UI design teams these days ? Useability is not considered. Even the newer KDE has colour schemes which are insane. Wont start on Gnome. Lastly, for those who have reliable high speed connections, thousands of active whatsits crapping up the screen might be fine, but many of us like a simple non-dynamic pages that load adequately on slow networks. Must be MBAs going into design or "managing" the design teams.

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Re: If something works ...

Why can't they bloody well leave it alone?

"If it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet."

From the reports here, Yahoo now has plenty of features.

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