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back to article Facebook strips away a bit more of your privacy – but won't say why

Facebook is slurping mobile phone numbers from its users without explaining why, it has emerged. In an upcoming overhaul to the social network's data use policy, Facebook said it had made a number of updates about the information it receives about individuals using the free content ad network. It includes simplifying the …

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Anonymous Coward

Presumably

when Facebook "helpfully"[1] hoovers up all your Hotmail/Yahoo/Gmail contacts data it also hoovers up their associated phone numbers ?

What a wonderful marketing database they could sell there. *You* may have never given your mobile number to a company. But your friend who had it in their contacts list just has.

[1]Why has nobody managed to explain to me how Facebook (and LinkedIn) can somehow circumvent the strict warning Hotmail et al have on NOT GIVING YOUR LOGIN DETAILS TO ANYONE ?

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Re: Presumably

You realise that functionality is optional - you don't have to give Facebook your email credentials. I don't know why anyone would voluntarily do that ...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Presumably

Oh I know, and I am continually ignoring LinkedIns suggestion to trawl through my contacts.

The point is it's against Hotmails T&Cs, and should be policed more. It's the same legal reason you should never give your boss your Facebook login details.

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Re: Presumably

Even if I don't volunteer, people who have me in their address book do, and end up giving Facebook and Linked In their address book entry for me, which my include my phone number and street address.

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Anonymous Coward

If they want your phone number so bad

Why not put the number of the White House on your profile. Let Obama take the heat.

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Hang on...

I'm not a lawyer but this can't hold up, surely?

"If you are under the age of eighteen (18), or under any other applicable age of majority, you represent that at least one of your parents or legal guardians has also agreed to the terms of this section (and the use of your name, profile picture, content, and information) on your behalf."

So you, personally, can't legally accept these terms because you're too young, but you are able to confirm that somebody who can legally accept them has done so.

That's got "Facebook's next appointment in court" written all over it.

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Coat

Re: Hang on...

It's about as robust as the "I am over 18 and legally permitted to view this hardcore smut" button that I, I mean some people, regularly click through without reading.

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Re: Hang on...

I think they do read that. It is usually written in big enough letters. Whether or not they answer it truthfully is another matter.

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Meh

Re: Hang on...

They are just trying it on, throw enough sh*t and some will stick.

As to that being a valid term, it is not, unless the parent or guardian specifically signs a document agreeing to this, a bit like acting as a guarantor on a loan.

No court in the EU would agree to this term, also unlikely in the US, but for the canny speculator it might be a good earner. Class Actions, here they come.......

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Facial Recognition

I wrote this in June, seems very relevant with the news today:

http://www.alexanderhanff.com/facebook_future

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Big Brother

Re: Facial Recognition

This is why my kids are not allowed to put a photo up on Facebook, or alternatively should post this one.

I myself will not join (or if I join, it is only to see what the kids are up to). If I do, the obvious mug-shot is the icon beside this post

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Re: Facial Recognition

"This is why my kids are not allowed to put a photo up on Facebook, or alternatively should post this one."

I think that this one http://www.firstpeople.us/pictures/wolves/1024x768/JLM-wolf-10-1024x768.html expresses my position wrt Facewaste. Step a little closer Zuck, the nice doggie wants to be friends.

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Re: Facial Recognition

Ok, I have a zombie mask, now I just need to buy the T-shirt that says, "This product gave me Cancer!", and there's the perfect picture to use on facebook!

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Re: Facial Recognition

Non-users too. All it would take is one of my Farcebook using friends to tag me a pow; there goes my privacy.

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Re: Facial Recognition

Can't tag a non-user of facebook - only people in your friends list.

They could post a picture of you and make reference to you in the comments but not tag you

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Facial Recognition

You can tag a face with a non-members name. It could still build a database of what non-members look like. So if a search is performed, they know your name and who you are friends with when they want to track you down.

So many of my friends have a picture of their child/grandchild as their profile picture. My friends list must look similar to Jimmy Savile's

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Anonymous Coward

Evil

Evil......Pure Evil.

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JDX
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Re: Evil

No, not even slightly. Perhaps use a dictionary... evil doesn't mean running questionable practices, just as a moron is not someone who is technically incompetent.

Dubious, questionable, controversial, worrying, unethical are all terms you could use quite legitimately. Evil is several orders of magnitude above any of those, unless you view that taking liberties with digital privacy is on a par with throwing Jews into gas chambers. If you do, then I'll make an exception against using the term moron.

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Paris Hilton

Re: Evil JDX

Totally agree, evil seems to be a bit of an over exaggeration, if anything they are bending the law while having a team of highly paid lawyers to say exactly how far they can ‘technically’ go before they will certainly get in trouble. But calling it evil is the same as saying LOL when in fact it your response was more of a wry smile or slight chuckle.

Evil = what people are doing to each other in Syria

Greed = what Facebook is doing with information voluntarily given to them by its users to increase ad revenue

Lust = This picture

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Re: Evil JDX

Evil does NOT have to come in it's true form. Evil is most effective when it can't be discerned. If Facebook was evil, you both would be fooled.

No, I don't think FaceB0rk is being evil...but it sure sucks !!!

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Re: Evil

Producing such information that could be used for great evil could be considered to be evil.

(It is better than anything Hitler would have hoped for in his wildest dreams. Could even go for people who associated with Jews for example).

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Facepalm

Re: Evil

I think you need to read a bit more history if you think Hitler’s wildest dreams involved using personal information for advertising revenue…

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Facepalm

This will completely fail in the EU.

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..."such as a brand you like"

in other words, it doesn't have to _actually_ be a brand you like; your face could end up advertising anything at all without you doing anything or having any say in the matter

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Mushroom

Shit off Zuck

... is my considered response.

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Consent

Interesting piece on consent but it falls foul of EU laws on processing personal information. Because they will know where you are based on the data hoovered up, any advertising served that is "local" to you is using geolocation and the law prohibits that without explicit consent and a user must be able to revoke that consent at any time without charge or loss of service. Making it a condition of taking a service is not explicit nor is it freely given. Of course being American they won't give a damn.

As for the parental agreement bit - that's no different from a website asking the child to make sure their guardian is OK with it or a phone in saying that they must have the bill payer's permission to use the phone. Not exactly the hardest bar to clear!

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Anonymous Coward

So if they will use the fact that you like a product to try to flog it to your friends then surely the answer is to not like any new product and go and unlike any product you have already liked. A huge drop in the number of likes on a commercial product page isn't going to go unnoticed by their marketing people

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DJV
Devil

I already do

So far, I've only ever come across one advert on FB that I was remotely interested in. I mark all the rest as spam (or some other inappropriate option from those available).

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I already do

If its a sponsored story in my news feeed I usually post a comment about how I didn't understand why they'd paid Facebook to spam their crap in my news feed. Then I flag the post as spam

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Done something like that

I got an XBoxOne Fans page shown as "sponsored". I hate that damn thing, and usually I'd ignore such a group. But by having them slam it on my face... now I've taken into my duty to troll the page and bring in more trolls. And for what I've seen, it seems I'm not the only one with that idea. So it is backfiring already!

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Anonymous Coward

Hahahahaha

Get a life and get off Facebook.

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Makes sense now

Now I understand why they keep telling me that my profile is incomplete and asking for my phone number.

First rule of Facebook: Don't post anything unless you are perfectly happy for it to become public knowledge tomorrow, regardless of the privacy settings you choose.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/388043_10150400636492271_81771217_n.jpg

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Re: Makes sense now

Give them your number.

0871 FUK U ZUK

(0871 385 8 985)

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Screw 0871, 09xx is where it's at.

Depending on the profitability of an 09xx number, that might tempt me to sign up myself (under a John Doe name and photograph, of course).

Then leave it on a tape recorded loop of "fuck you, pay me."

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Re: Screw 0871, 09xx is where it's at.

"Fuck you, pay me bitch", surely?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Makes sense now

Oi, Big Yin

That's my bloody phone number and it's not stopped ringing all day !

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Re: Screw 0871, 09xx is where it's at.

Or use the number of a PPI claim company?

So the instant it gets used - the advertiser gets bombarded with cold calls... which has the side benefit of costing the PPI company as well...

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Go

Re: Screw 0871, 09xx is where it's at.

I have a growing amount of numbers in my Spam contact (PPI cold callers and such like) , might be worth putting a few of them to use

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Existing users will [] simply comply with the new terms, or else ditch Facebook

I love it when companies adopt the burnt bridges style of public relations.

Then they get all surprised when the bridges are not burnt in their favor.

This is the Internet. You might have a billion accounts now, but you're not Google and you're not doing something someone else can't set up just as well.

And when that happens, your boat will leak faster than a sieve.

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Re: you're not Google and you're not doing something someone else can't set up just as well

ever heard of Google+? It's Google's facebook alternative that only has decent user figures because Google added all the user accounts from their other services.

Google are not the internet.

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Anonymous Coward

Surely that should be 'a brand you [quote]like[unquote]'

E.g. UK readers will be aware of BBC Radio 2. Readers may or may not actually like Radio 2, but some BBC-provided web content now appears to be only accessible if you (a) have a Facebook account (b) click on the "like" button on BBC R2 Facebook page (?) to get access to the protected content.

Have I understood this right? I don't have (or want) a Facebook account and therefore can't try it for myself.

Increasing numbers of places I occasionally visit (e.g. chip vendor sites?!?) seem to want either a corporate email address or a FaceBook login for authentication. Wtf?

I'm all for having fewer usernames and passwords to manage. I don't want FaceBook to be The Chosen One (and I don't want Google either).

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Meh

Re: Surely that should be 'a brand you [quote]like[unquote]'

my local chippie just wants cash...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Surely that should be 'a brand you [quote]like[unquote]'

> Increasing numbers of places I occasionally visit (e.g. chip vendor sites?!?) seem to want either a corporate email address or a FaceBook login for authentication. Wtf?

I've had this from the marketing people here (who've been "informed" by "marketing professionals" elsewhere). They simply want real contact details of real people so they can maximize the effect of the follow-up email spam.

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Seen elsewhere, certainly.

I mean the exchange of some benefit in return for a Facebook "like" action.

I don't use FB and they may have a totally different meaning of the word "like", but in its original meaning, I will decide myself what I like, and I will withhold "like" from things that I don't in fact like especially.

Radio 2 may be an exceptional and allowable case, because if you don't like Radio 2 then you won't be bothering. Unless it's just that you have a thing for sexy sexagenarian Moira Stuart, and otherwise are not bothered.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Surely that should be 'a brand you [quote]like[unquote]'

"my local chippie just wants cash..."

Thank you, thank you, it's the way he tells them.

I'll set em up, you knock em down.

:)

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Good bye

Nothing of interest in my facebook account. Be even less now. I manage without Google, I'm sure I'll manage without Facebook.

LinkedIn though - not sure I'd want to lose that.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Good bye

Oh com on... thw amount of irrelevant crap that LinkedIn push into your news feed makes Facebook look like rank amateurs

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Devil

I'm glad...

...that I resisted when urged on by my colleagues to set up a Facebook page (Why? I'm 63 FFS!) which would permit me to look at their holiday/barbecue/grandchild pictures.

Apart from the fact that Mr Zuckerberg creeps me out somewhat - oh, all right, rather a lot in fact - the fact that I'm spared the 21st Century equivalent of the 1970's slide show "Here's our holiday photo's" is sufficient in itself to make me want to pat myself on the back.

I wouldn't say that I ever wondered why Mr Z wanted so much personal info - it's blatantly obvious it's for targeted commercial use - I just have a natural (to me, anyway) reluctance to give any personal info or details whatsoever to an unknown third party.

Or maybe I'm just an old paranoid cynic...

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Re: I'm glad...

Not a paranoid cynic at all...just like myself and others in the sort of sameish age bracket, we know what our privacy is like to have and it goads us to see the yoof of today tossing it away for a free item of tat.. I'm glad i wont be around to see the resultant clusterfucking shitstorm that will ensue...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I'm glad...

> Not a paranoid cynic at all...just like myself and

> others in the sort of sameish age bracket, we

> know what our privacy is like to have and it

> goads us to see the yoof of today tossing it away

> for a free item of tat.. I'm glad i wont be around

> to see the resultant clusterfucking shitstorm that

> will ensue...

I'll see your cards, please. You know what "resultant clusterfucking shitstorm" means, but not "goads". Either you are the tossing yoof at whom you malevolently sneer, or you just failed a Turing test.

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