back to article Sony sets dates for US and Euro PS4 unleashment amid Xbox heckles

Sony has used the Gamescom 2013 conference in Germany to announce the launch details of its PlayStation 4 console, price changes, and revamps for older hardware, and to take a few now-customary digs at rival Microsoft. "Our goals for PS4 are clear, ambitious and unwavering. We set out to build the most powerful gaming platform …

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Yes, all well and good if they are launching it on that date but they need an exclusive definitive 'must have game', yet it seems Xbox are the one that the game developers are flocking to.

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Why the downvotes for LarsG ....

..... who was merely stating what every other website/magazine on the planet has been saying? While Sony may have more exclusives around the launch period they are mainly indie titles, MS have a number of AAA exclusive titles for launch such as Forza and Ryse.

While you may enjoy Sony's constant digs at MS about being all for the gamer, at least MS pulled their fingers out and got some games sorted. I still can't stop laughing every time I remember that Sony's flagship driving game will only be available for the PS3.

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Anonymous Coward

Developers are flocking FROM xbox it seems

The PS4 lineup and very strong userbase are bringing previously xbox exclusives over to Playstation.

Mojang (distributors of Minecraft) saw the Xbox One pre-order numbers, and ripped up Microsot's exclusivity deal, which is why on Monday Microsoft claimed Minecraft was an Xbox One exclusive, and on Tuesday that suddenly turned out to be untrue...

Seems Microsoft have pissed off ALOT of indies recently...

http://www.develop-online.net/news/44276/No-self-publishing-for-indies-on-Xbox-One

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MJI
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They have

I set up a rule a year ago.

I would buy a next gen console when a Naughty Dog or Guerilla Games game is on it.

So I am OK. One boy likes racing games and the other Assassins Creed

So launch for us.

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MJI
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Re: Why the downvotes for LarsG ....

Forsa - see Driveclub

Ryse - see quick time events, looks good but a bit boring. A lost opportunity

Would rather do Infamous (have played them)

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How much for the ps4 without the Cinavia feature?

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Raspberry Pi + XBMC

Nuff said.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Raspberry Pi + XBMC

lol

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Anonymous Coward

"Sony wasn't forgetting its older-platform customers"

Hah. I bought mine because I wanted to run Linux on it. How soon was I forgotten?

I've been thinking about this recently as I have one PS3 that I can't downgrade without a hardware mod. Sony could really gain some kudos if it announced that it would have an official end-of-life firmware for older PS3s to revert them back to having the OtherOS feature. Such machines wouldn't be able to log onto the PSN and there would be no guarantee that games would continue to run (most newer games require a minimum firmware version, so if the PS3 reported that it was running 3.55, for example, it wouldn't run). But for those of us that want to give the machine another use after it's become obsoleted by the PS4, it would be a very satisfactory outcome.

Sony could make such an announcement and implement it without too much difficulty. It probably wouldn't have to wait too long after the PS4 release as once the new platform was in its stride, there'd be very little downside to letting people run Linux/BSD on their old PS3s. Give it a year, and I'd say there'd be no more game releases for the PS3, so no chance of it cannibalising PS4 games sales, even if people do (eventually) figure out a way of using the PS3s to play old games in this form.

Did I mention the kudos they could gain by doing this?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "Sony wasn't forgetting its older-platform customers"

Sure. Why not. A bit like catering for left handed transsexual Tasmanians, but every customer is precious.

I'm sure they'll get the work experience kid right on it (as soon as he's finished fetching the bagels and coffee).

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Re: "Sony wasn't forgetting its older-platform customers"

Surprise , surprise, most transexuals are left-handed.

Makes me wonder if Google are capable of keeping track of who is "left-handed" because they probably already know who is transexual, live in in Tasmania and have already searched for "mod PS3 + Linux".

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Re: "Sony wasn't forgetting its older-platform customers"

Surely a PC would have been cheaper if you didn't want a games console...

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Re: "Sony wasn't forgetting its older-platform customers"

"Give it a year, and I'd say there'd be no more game releases for the PS3"

FIFA14 is being released for the PS2 next month apparently.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "Sony wasn't forgetting its older-platform customers"

Sorry, you showed that you couldn't be trusted with OtherOS, so they took it away,.

Learn some lessons from it, move on.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "Sony wasn't forgetting its older-platform customers"

According to VGChartz, PS3 has sold about 78.5m units worldwide.

How many of you OtherOS types are out there? Maybe 100K tops? Even if there were a million of you, that's still only about 1.6% of the total global sales, mainly to people who bought PS3s after the removal of Linux so who wouldn't care anyway.

And do you really think software devs are going to drop a console with that size installed userbase in 12 months? There are still at least a dozen AAA rated titles due out for the 3 & 360 in the next 12 months, and there are still games being written and released for the original PS & PS2 in some markets.

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Re: "Sony wasn't forgetting its older-platform customers"

I wouldn't hold my breath... Depending on... How old your PS3 is CECH A~G (NAND) = 99.9% Soldering where everything afterwards being NOR which can be done solderlessly. Up till 'round CECH-25xx where S0NY started changing the Hardware Keys on the PS3. So locking out those with newer 25s 30s (Slim), and the current 40 (Super Slim) Models.

I would just either bite the bullet and get the Hardware, or find someone who'd be able to use their Hardware for me....

I must say life is nicer w/o the Cinavia BS.. And the current ReBug CFW also has full OtherOS as well as a whole number of things....

Very nice.... Very nice indeed!

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FAIL

Re: "Sony wasn't forgetting its older-platform customers"

When I can play Ni No Kuni, Gran Turismo 5, (insert any number of NISA Games HERE) and Little Big Planet on a PC.... Then give me a ring back, 'K!

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FAIL

Re: "Sony wasn't forgetting its older-platform customers"

FIFA14 is being released for the PS2 next month apparently.

And pray tell will ASDA, or some other outlet of repute even carry it?

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Re: "Sony wasn't forgetting its older-platform customers"

The next 12 Months lol no....

The next 18+ Months from now and, it'll be PS who?

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MJI
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Re: "Sony wasn't forgetting its older-platform customers"

It already runs BSD oh wait

The Linux install was a bit useless unfortunately. I was just going to try it when that software update came out and the boys updated

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As someone who owns Ni No Kuni

While the visuals are breath taking, the music is phenomenal and even the fighting system was workable (I saw a couple of complaints about it, but it didn't bother me), it was still a bit of a crap game.

I really REALLY wanted to love it, but all the things that should have been puzzles felt like a comedy club with an audience full of people who feel the need to explain every joke. 3 times.

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Comparison?

I wonder how console gaming stacks up against PC gaming in terms of numbers (and maybe sales? But aren't the game prices different?)

I personally can't stand console gaming even though I have my X360 rigged up to a single VERY big screen. I'd much rather play WoT's or Eve on my tripple screen PC as I think the multi-player experience is better, imo.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Comparison?

PC gaming was in decline, but has recently experienced a strong resurgence due to things like more powerful hardware, Steam sales and humble bundles, ability to mod games and a huge selection of indie titles.

If you have to own a PC anyway, the incremental cost of a decent graphics card is competitive with the cost of and entire console, while providing better resolution and more frames per second.

The new consoles will largely (for a time) negate the performance and (possibly) indie game issues, but cheaper games and mods will still be powerful draws to the PC. Free content like Black Mesa (complete rewrite of Half Life) as well as new quests, textures, models etc. for all the Elder Scrolls and Fallout games are just some examples of the huge number of mods that are available free of charge.

Console gaming will always be more convenient, but I suspect PC gaming will continue to offer significant benefits for those prepared to make the effort.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Comparison?

Considering the current hardware specs on ps4 and xbone, the fact Microsoft are merging their various webstores, and the fact they're already shifting a large number of their library to the PC. I can't help but think Microsoft are using this generation as a transition from console to PC. All their peripherals already have the ability to work on the PC.

Lets face is, PC is seeing a resurgence. And if Microsoft can shift their games from xbox to PC, would they really be losing out? Especially when you consider

console lifecycle 10 years, (give or take, mostly take) with the first load of consoles normally losing money.

PC lifecycle, god knows, but there's new windows software every year, and new operating systems every 3 years (give or take) with the added bonus of microsoft forcing you to upgrade to make use of the latest graphics hardware (you want DX12? Better upgrade!)

Not only that, but everyone owns a PC, (more or less) if the game comes out on the PC you already own, and the new console which is basically a PC but costs £400 and you can't upgrade it, which will you go for?

At least that's the way I'm seeing it, possibly the way valve sees it too with their pushing into LInux as an alternative. I honestly don't believe windows 8 was the sole reason behind that, but see it as a countermeasure to the forced paid for upgardes microsoft will likely push in the future. Why make your PC game using directX and launch on PC only, which will limit you to the previous version, when you can use openGL always give users the latest graphics, and be able to launch on Linux.

I just see Linux as the future android gaming console, lots of small companies building their own custom machines (steambox) to counter the facist microsoft dictatorship.

How the hell did I get to this?

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Meh

At least with a console

I know I won't have to upgrade any hardware in the next five years to play games in surround from the comfort of the sofa on the 46" TV handily fixed to the wall, so my expenses are covered and I already have the sofa and the TV which I also use for non-gaming pursuits, too.

Beats the hell out of having a PC you have to upgrade when the next killer game comes out and your GFX card can't quite do max framerate at highest resolution (and then you find you need more ram and cpu hence a new mobo) and everything has to be arranged around your computer.

But then we're a family so shutting myself away in the office to play games would be a dismal and antisocial route to entertainment on a screen 1/6th the size. Fine if you're a single bloke/gal of course, I too remember being plonked in front of the computer as a single chap in days of yore and I wouldn't go back to those days for anything. Hindsight reveals they were indeed dismal.

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Re: Comparison?

>I wonder how console gaming stacks up against PC gaming in terms of numbers

Games played in 2012:

On PC: 33,355,879

On console: 445,278,842

The PC figures increased 13% from 2011, console figures dropped 23% from 2011.

It's possible that people are moving from console to PC because of a more "hardcore" experience, but it's equally possible that consoles are dropping off as casual gamers move to mobile devices or are just bored with the games coming out for hardware that's now getting very old (the XBox will be eight years old by the time the new console arrives).

In other words, the usual market forces are in play and people will shift around as their requirements change and new kit arrives.

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FAIL

Re: Comparison?

You almost had me right up till Android.. I love Android as much as the next "Fanroid" but, lets nit even think for a minute that the Ouya could even hold a Candle to the Wii-U, much less the PS4 or the FAILBOX-One

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Re: At least with a console

Personally, this generation I'll be doing the best of both worlds. A mid-range PC with a half-decent GPU sat under the TV in the living room.

There's no need to keep going down the 'constant upgrade' route if you build a small PC for the living room. Unless you own a 4K TV (I don't) you don't need to cater for anything over 1920x1080 resolution, so there's no chasing max resolutions all the time. My three year old GTX-460 card (which was decidedly mid-range at the time) still spits out Battlefield 3 at that resolution looking a whole lot better than the console version.

A mini-itx (i.e. shoebox-sized) PC will do just about anything the next crop of consoles do in terms of games and media, the games are cheaper, and I have a big back-catalogue of games that I can still play on the same hardware. If something fails, I replace that bit rather than getting the console replaced (3 times with my 360, once with PS3). Don't get me wrong, I love the console experience, I really do, it's just that there's a viable alternative this time around that I'll still be able to play a lot of the games I would have bought on console. For less.

All of this said I'll no doubt pick up a PS4 when the price drops, but only_if_ there are enough decent exclusives. :)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Comparison?

The android part was meant more along the lines of Ouya made an android console, it's just a normal android machine dedicated to playing games.

Now we have Amazon working on one, nVidia making one, and a few others.

The same could happen with PCs, with companies making dedicated PC consoles, small form factor, components bought in bulk to lower price, small enough to sit beneath the TV, but powerful enough to run most games.

I half expect somebody to make a lying down graphics card specially for such an application (rather than sticking up like the do now, have it lying on its side to flatten the whole thing out) There's bound to be a functional reason they haven't done so already (probably the heat generated by a graphics card and the lack of air space between the card and the board if they were to do this)

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MJI
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Re: Comparison?

Hmm the chair by the PC is a bit hard, but for console I sit on a comfy sofa with my feet up.

That does help with console.

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This post has been deleted by its author

A console has its advantages

As stated, there's no ongoing maintenance. It's a buy-once item, so need for OS upgrades, driver upgrades, graphics card upgrades, etc.

My PS3 has sat under the TV, acting more as a entertainment hub than a games console, for several years, where the main use it gets is iPlayer, Netflix and discs. We rarely watch broadcast TV any more.

I played a LOT of games during some convalescence, and here the PSN+ subscription came in to its own. It's actually a fantastic deal; worth far more than the subscription for anyone with the time to game. Just the free games makes it worth it, never mind the discounts.

I won't be getting a PS4, as I really don't need one. In time, some new killer feature or game may persuade me otherwise, but for now the PS3 is still bloody ace!

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$399....

399 US greenbacks Is £255 or €300 in civilised currencies.... So Sony is still shafting us Europeans for a swift hundred quid or so...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: $399....

I plan to wait until it's been out for a few months anyway, wait and see what the first batch blues are this time around. After that I'll probably get a friend in the good ol' US of A to buy it for me, and ship it over wrapped up as a birthday gift.

If it gets through customs, great, if it doesn't it'll still probably work out cheaper than buying it over here.

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Re: $399....

Remember - US prices virtually never include sales tax (as it's variable by state etc)

EU/UK prices virtually always include sales tax.

So at ~20% sales tax $399 becomes $480 which is ~£305. So yes we pay more in the UK, but it's around £50 not £100

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Unhappy

Re: $399....

Don't forget shipping costs. It's not Sony, et al, screwing us over - we live on small little island

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Meh

Re: $399....

"Don't forget shipping costs."

They also have to be shipped to the US, so the US price also includes shipping...

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Re: $399....

"They also have to be shipped to the US"

While that is true, economics of scale and distance means it's almost certainly cheaper to ship to the US than the UK. Assuming they're built in China/Taiwan (what isn't now days?) they only have to go across the Pacific and in greater numbers. Alas our's have to go through either Suez or Panama, probably dropped off in mainland Europe - somewhere like Rotterdam - and then reshipped over to Felixstowe.

Any anyone wanting to buy a "cheaper" US model online still has to get over the Atlantic somehow...

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Re: $399....

If by "shafting" you mean "covering the costs of VAT and the cost of providing an EU level of statutory rights plus warranty", then yes you're probably correct.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: $399....

Pretty sure PS4 will be made in china. From china most euro goods are shipped to germany as a central distributor, since most companies have some kind of holding there. From germany it'll either be flown or trucked elsewhere.

Don't forget there's the import duty etc on goods before it even gets to the consumer taxes. We aren't paying tax on the goods that arrive, we're paying tax on the goods, and the tax that was put on the goods.

Hey UK, we heard you like taxes, so we put taxes on yo taxes, so you can get taxed, while you get taxed!

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Re: $399....

So at ~20% sales tax $399 becomes $480 which is ~£305. So yes we pay more in the UK, but it's around £50 not £100

You think US sales tax is anywhere near UK sales tax? Ummmm....no. Even here in one of the more expensive parts of Canuckland it tops out at 12% max.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: $399....

Grow up. Sony isn't screwing anyone.

The UK government take 20% in VAT

The EU take 10% cut on any goods manufactured outside the EU.

When you factor these in, there is very little difference in price, and you have to bear in mind selling and supporting goods in 20 languages is a very expensive operation.

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So just another case of RIP OFF Europe again...

If you were to buy the NTSC NA/C PS4 @ $399.00(USD) you just come up to, just shy of 300.00(EUR).

Consequently S0NY makes a nice little +$135.00(USD) on every PS4 sold in Europe.

So if the Yanks had to pay what we'd have to pay for it. It would set then a cool $535.00(USD)*

Sure the Yanks have no notion of a National Sales Tax, which varies from State to State.

But, even then it only works to 'round 70-ish (or so) Dollars.

P.s. Enjoy your $625.00(USD) **cough** ₤399.99(GBP)**cough** PS4s!!

*As of writing....

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Facepalm

See the thread above yours as to why this is largely nonsense. In short, you're comparing a "non-VAT" US cost vs a VAT EU/UK cost. Plus the US sold products aren't subject to the EU consumer protections.

But, most importantly - prices are set to whatever the market will support. And exchange rates don't necessarily equal spending power. Nuances in economies (such as PAYE tax thresholds) vary how much a £ or £ or € is actually worth to the consumer.

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nowhere near as bad as last gen though. I remember all the americans I speak to crying about "Wah wah it's $600 that's so expensive"

They didn't seem to understand when I explaned that, due to the strong £ at the time we were paying over $1000, and no stores were selling the console without at least 2 games and an accessory.

They also don't understand when I tell them we pay more for 1l of petrol than they pay for a gallon.

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Is the price difference due to the PS4 being so bloody ugly? Who the hell designed it to be that depressing? At least the Xbox has a modest look like the rest of the devices sitting under the telly.

Not that I'll buy either, maybe. I want a PS4 just to play Battlefield 4 with a friend, who will no doubt get the new console, and the Mirrors Edge sequel by myself. But I can't justify the price for a console, that doesn't seem to be that much better than its predecessor, just for two games.

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I'd rather have "depressive" as you describe it, the that great honker of a VHS Player from the '80s The thing just looks like a brick, and probably none of the charm of a Brick either....

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Anonymous Coward

If it looks like a brick, acts like a brick, and plays games like a brick. It's probably the XBone.

Also, although the CPU isn't a very large percentage better than the previous gen, the graphics are far superior.

7900gt, that's the graphics chip the ps3 and 360 used. (well more or less) since then graphics cards have gone through the following iterations

8 seres

9 series

gtx200

gtx400 (300 being mobile only I believe)

gtx500

gtx600

gtx700.

7 upgrades of graphics. With the new ps4 and xbone using the ATi equivalent to a 6 series, so 6 generations of graphics chip ahead of the PS3.

Using hardware compare as a basic sample of how much more powerful the graphcis would be.

http://www.hwcompare.com/12184/geforce-8600-gt-1gb-gddr3-vs-radeon-hd-7850/

Roughly 500% superior in every way. (note this is just a numbers game to prove the point that the graphics are a shit ton more powerful in ps4 than ps3)

Not to mention it opens up the consoles to using the latest openGL version, rather than being stuck with openGL of ye olden times (forget what the old version was).

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FAIL

Yeah cause we're gonna see a XBOX HUGH 6x improvement on the overall graphics.... NOT!!

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Finally, the bloody Vita!

Pleeeeeaaasseee, Sony, put the effort into the Vita now that you should have put in when it launched. Remote play is a good start, but come on, the real benefit is continuation play, and damned if you didn't fuck that up. It'll be harder to do with PS4 games, true, but it's a huge benefit, as is buying a multiple-platform release as I did with Sly 4.

Really glad to hear that the memory card prices are coming down. Does anyone know when this price cut comes in? Been waiting for the right moment to buy a Vita and I think now is a good one.

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