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back to article YouTube Wars: Microsoft cries foul as Windows Phone app pulled again

Microsoft has publicly criticized Google for failing to live up to its commitment to openness, after being told to pull its custom-built YouTube app from the Windows Phone Store for the third time. YouTube has had a rocky history on the Windows Phone platform. Since early this year, Microsoft's legal team has accused Google of …

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Wake up. Google IS EVIL. And they're going to get much worse.

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Wake up. Microsoft is evil and they couldn't get much worse.

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Trollface

Cute!

Sounds like the kids of the post-MS era are now finding their way to the Reg Forums.

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Stop

re: Evil

>> Wake up. Google IS EVIL. And they're going to get much worse.

Google is positively angelic when juxtaposed with Microsoft. M$ even has the distinction of featuring in some dictionaries as "The Evil Corporation". Can't get any more clear cut than that.

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Re: re: Evil

These days Microsoft seems like one of those 90-something year old Nazi war criminals you read about them going after from time to time. You know he was truly evil back in the day and deserves his fate, but somehow against your better judgment a small part of you can't help feeling sorry for the poor doddering old fool.

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Anonymous Coward

Google don't want it because they fear the Windows phone becoming too popular.

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Re: re: Evil @dougS

Don't be fooled Doug,

once a Nazi, always a Nazi.

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Anonymous Coward

@AC 06:12

I bet that you are the same AC who yesterday posted such hilarious gems such as "that's what happens when you use Linux".

You definitely need to improve your troll/shill technique.

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Mushroom

Google is The BORG.

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Anonymous Coward

Seriously, what evil acts did Google commit? Except for the "Buzz" fiasco, is there anything that Google did that can remotely be considered insidious or unscrupulous let alone evil. Unlike Microsoft, who can arguably be called evil (there is evidence), and who constantly produce c**p and have been doing so for decades (I know because I had/have to suffer their abominations), Google seem to make best/better products and services than are out there. I use and depend on a lot of them because they are the best. I also like the fact that they try to make their products/interfaces open. If not, they, more often than not, go out of their way to provide tools (eg: http://www.dataliberation.org/takeout-products) so that you are not locked-in and let you take your data with you if you don't like what they provide. Of course, they want to make money and I would contend that is a good thing as they are a business and not a charity.

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Anonymous Coward

joking right?

Windows phone is on life support, it's sounding like the final days of HDDVD all over again.

I can't remember the last time I saw someone with a Windows phone

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Anonymous Coward

Tax avoidance and being anti-competitive, not to mention ripping off Java.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/18/technology/europe-wants-more-concessions-from-google.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

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Re: joking right?

What are you talking about? Windows phone is just taking off and Google are getting nervous.

Maybe they could go back to using Flash like the great integrated Youtube player on my old Nokia Symbian.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: re: Evil

Yup. Microsoft has been internationally recognised as "the evil empire" for at least 20 years.

What I'm finding particularly entertaining about this specific skirmish is the astounding fact that, even if true, the little tossers have the gall to be whining about another company supposedly using its APIs to its own advantage.

Don't like them apples MS? Oooohh poor diddums.

A quick smattering of illustrations from across the ages, for those to young to remember:

http://venturebeat.com/2012/07/18/microsoft-secret-api-mobile/

http://www.stratigery.com/nt.sekrits.html

http://blog.samat.org/2006/05/04/google-sues-microsoft-over-default-search-engine-in-internet-explorer-7

http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f3800/v-b.pdf

http://www.ecis.eu/documents/Finalversion_Consumerchoicepaper.pdf

http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f2600/2613toc_htm.htm

Hopefully, he who lived by the secret API, shall soon die by the secret API

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It's an interesting point - why don't Google just support WP themselves? It can't be because of wanting to keep things to Android, as now they're happily giving away all sorts of features to the minority of IOS users. It can't be market share either, as they also happily support Mac users (Mac market share on PC platforms is not that much higher than WP market share on phones).

One wonders if they fear WP more in the long term, because they know that IOS will only run on Apple phones (which will also never run Android), but WP is much closer competition to Android, in that it's an OS provided for other hardware manufacturers.

I'm fed up with the "who's evil" debate (personally, both are fine by me, better than a company that sues for rounded rectangles) - restricting choice for consumers is a bad thing, no matter what company does it. I love that I can run One Note on my Android phone - why shouldn't WP users get Youtube.

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"Unlike Microsoft, who can arguably be called evil (there is evidence), and who constantly produce c**p and have been doing so for decades (I know because I had/have to suffer their abominations), Google seem to make best/better products and services than are out there"

I'm not sure the debate about how much you like their products or not (which is very much opinion, personally I like and use products from both companies) has anything to do with how "evil" they supposedly are.

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Re: re: Evil

No, it's consumers who "die" and lose out by it.

If company A does something wrong, I'm not sure that makes it okay for company B to do it. If the former was criticised, the latter should be too. In both cases, consumers lose out.

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Re: joking right?

You need to get out more.

In our office alone (head count 8) there are 3 with WP8. We may be unusual in that ratio, but WP market share is approaching a third of Apple's in some places.

Whether you approve of MS, WP, Google, Apple, BB or whoever, blind loyalty is just another way of saying stupidity.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: re: Evil

Right, so just because MS did it in the past it's okay for Google to do it now?

If we are talking about MS setting a precedent then note that MS also got in trouble for doing it, and so should Google.

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Re: re: Evil

Actually you can take that a bit further. It's like seeing the poor old fool finally sitting in the dock at Nuremburg with headphones on, but still not understanding any of the language.

Perhaps Google could dial back on this new-fangled html5 stuff and include a Flash player for IE mobile?

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Anonymous Coward

Wake Up! Evil is not a petulant row about who has access to who's APIs. Evil is unspeakable and horrible, the people who starved and tortured a baby to death recently are evil. This may count as shitty behavior, it's certainly not evil, to describe it as evil devalues the word and makes things which truly are evil seem less bad by association.

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WTF?

minority os

Windows phone has 3 percent of the market, why should anyone bother with it?

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Microsoft is evil but you get good stuff from them when are the underdog.

(Surely if Microsoft has to offer Chrome on its OS via that choice screen it would be reasonable to force Google to allow proper access to Youtube for everybody. It is its own monopoly for what it does).

Google are everytfhing I hated about Facebook in the moderately recent past (Tricking people into enable stuff all the time).

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Anonymous Coward

You forgot to put the "joke alert" icon.

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FAIL

Get it straight MS = Convicted monopolist

Microsoft has to offer those things because they broke the law in many ways. You Tube is not a monopoly just because of its popularity.

And, as posted above, this is the height of hypocrisy coming from the corporation that screwed so many over the years with these exact same practices. They need to just suck it up and create the app in HTML5.

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Personally I find google far worse of the 2.

They invade privacy for their living, their software sucks (yes it does)m, examples chrome is aweful but it has market share due to bundling with apps and heavy spamming of sites with download links, every change google make to youtube is a regression, the original youtube gui was better pre google, android os isnt that great and the likes of samsung have to make really powerful phones to hide its poor performance, and touchwiz to hide the constant ui changes google make to it, microsoft do at least make good software (well they used to before google invaded the market and caused them to panic release windows 8). But still better software than google. Google routinely block security apps on google play, apps that do things like protect privacy. This youtube thing is just blatant bullying and anti competitive behaviour. Most of my family have been buying nokia window phones, I played with one and in my view is far superior to stock android experience, the only thing that makes android good is the fact you can root it to fix its problems and large amount of apps. I cant wait for samsung to abandon android, it will lose a ton of marketshare when that happens. The main reason google has such a loyal following of supporters is cash, google makes other people money, all those app developers make a good living of android, youtube partners likewise. Adwords and more. When you have that kind of loyalty blind eyes are turned.

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Re: joking right?

in my family.

2 have android (me and my younger sister's bf)

2 have windows phone (recently purchased as well) my dad and elder sister.

3 have iphone, my elder sister's kids and my younger sister.

I agree windows phone isnt a big player but its growing. Microsoft are also still big enough to hurt google.

eg.

They could rollout a windows update that cleans millions of windows desktops of chrome over night, for security reasons. If google then started bitching microsoft could also say google broke windows guidelines by installing chrome outside of the program files folder.

They could rollout a windows update that has IE filtering all google adverts, bam overnight tons of lost revenue for google.

They could buy mozilla off and have firefox do the same thing.

They could start a competior service to youtube, no ads for viewers, higher paymentsto content providers. Since money buys loyalty and users hate ad's youtube would lose market share fast.

I think microsoft have been polite up until now and I wasnt to see their nasty side turn on google. As google is too dominating, it needs putting in its place. Developers etc. mostly look up to google now and its scary. eg. the rapid firefox releases and dumbind down of firefox are down to google chrome. The cloud boom is down to google.

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Re: joking right?

Dude, can you introduce me to your dealer, because I want to try some of whatever you're smoking.

So no ads and payments to content providers; where exactly would the money for these payments come from?

Buy Mozilla off? While they're at it why they they buy off the fsf, and get Stallman to write v4 of the gpl giving MS non-copyleft access to any material fsf own or is licenced under any later version of the gpl.

Microsoft could block chrome. I'm not sure which would be worse though; the backlash of users, or legal antitrust issues.

You forgot to mention that they could deploy a firewall, blocking access to Google owned IP space. I'd grab a popcorn.

Cloud boom, Google, WTF? Ever heard of Amazon?

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Another Executive Order Coming?

Looks like time for another last minute Executive Order by the Obama Administration to the party with the most campaign contributions.

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Trollface

Re: Another Executive Order Coming?

On that basis, I think that Google's got this one covered...

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Boffin

Pot, meet kettle, kettle meet pot.

So every coder in the world can make HTML5 uTube work, except MicroSoft and it has to be Googles fault. I vaguely remember a company called Lotus that complained about not getting API;s from MicroSoft, and proved it, but MIcroSoft went on their own merry way.

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Exactly

"At the end of the day, "

If they only spent a day on it no wonder they failed.

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...and it's ultimately the consumer that suffers. As always.

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Anonymous Coward

Title

Yes, all three Windows Phone users are in tears...

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Anonymous Coward

That's the point, iOS and Android apps aren't using HTML5.

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Linux

It is probably some mix in between that and the fact that they are trying to outsmart Google on something and Google is not letting them having their way.

Since MS exist Google is one of the few companies that can show a stand to MS because it is one of the few large companies with no dependence on them for their revenue.

MS is used to everybody no matter the size bowing to them.

I'm glad they are getting (MS) some of their own medicine, when people say Google is evil they have no idea what MS can do/would do if allowed. For years MS massacred the industry to the point that software had to become in essence free as in beer to have any chance of success.

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"That's the point, iOS and Android apps aren't using HTML5."

Yes, but Blackberry and all the smart TVs etc ARE using HTML5. If BB can build a youtube app with HTML5, why can't MS?

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If BB can build a youtube app with HTML5, why can't MS?

Because HTML 5 relies on their browsers rendering engine... And IE is shite.

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Anonymous Coward

"MS is used to everybody no matter the size bowing to them."

You mean like Intel Inc., when M$ was trying to take over Java?... and M$ instructed Intel to obstruct Sun's Java development, which Intel Inc. dutifully did.

Didn't the Wintel cartel cop a conviction for that little number?

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Anonymous Coward

>If BB can build a youtube app with HTML5, why can't MS?

Because writing an HTML5 app. requires at least schoolboy coding competence?

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iOS and Android apps were written by Google. But 3rd parties can't write native code for Winphone so they could not create one if they wanted to.

"so that we can't give our users the same experience Android and iPhone users are getting."

Cat videos are far from the top of the list on that problem...

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Childcatcher

BB YouTube App

If BB can build a youtube app with HTML5, why can't MS?

Because the BB YouTube app has driven their sales right on through the roof, right? This is an obvious play to make the competition waste resources. Like or dislike it, there is nothing more to it than that. Google is kicking RIM while they are down, and kicking MS in hopes of taking them down at least a notch. This will almost certainly end up in court. It will most likely be settled out of court. As previously noted, consumers are inconvenienced.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

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Re: Lonely Here

Who are the other two? I've always wondered when I would find another kindred spirit.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Lonely Here

mmeir and RICHTO/TheVogon.

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FAIL

actually google cant make it work either which is why the ios and android apps are native code.

html5 is inferior to native code in most ways.

http://thinkmobile.appcelerator.com/blog/bid/284174/Native-vs-HTML5-looked-at-objectively-the-debate-is-over

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The two official apps aren't written in HTML5. Maybe that's worth thinking about?

And also, MS have been fined billions of dollars, partly for just providing a default browser without stopping any other browsers on Windows. The situations aren't equal.

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Some toy throwing going on here.

I'm no Google fan any more than I am a Microsoft one, but it seems to me that Microsoft are throwing their toys out of the pram on this one.

As a web developer for many years, I still remember the horror days of IE6 and ActiveX, where I had to create two versions of the same website for every project - one for IE6, and one to the W3C specs. This blew out costs and dev times on every project and I came to loathe Microsoft for this.

But these days Microsoft aren't the big boys on the block any more, and so it seems to me they're now spitting their chips because they're not the ones shoving their bloated inconsistent standards down everyone's throats. Instead they're being forced to abide by the W3C specs as they should have been from day dot. And they're bitching about it because they're no longer the ones calling the shots.

So tough shit MS, your day is past and you have to suck it up and comply with the W3C standards like everyone else.

Mind you, I don't like Google's "We don't have to use HTML 5 but you do" approach either. Anyone who operates under "do as I say not as I do" is someone I never want to deal with, as I despise nothing more than a hypocrite.

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#WindowsRage

Honestly, after Microsoft's recent anti-Android campaigns and scorched-earth litigation against Android OEM licensees, what sort of response do they *expect* from Google? Why would Google offer them any concessions whatsoever, instead of strictly following the letter of their published rules? I'm no particular fan of Google, but it's rather rewarding to finally see Microsoft come up against someone that they can't simply push around.

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Pint

Despise nothing more than a hypocrite?

Then you must *love* Microsoft's "one API for us, a different one for you" SOP.

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