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back to article Second LulzSec Sony website hacker starts a year in the cooler

A LulzSec hacker has been sentenced to a year in a US jail for hacking Sony Pictures and dumping personal information of 138,000 movie fans online. Raynaldo Rivera, 21, of Tempe, Arizona, will spend 366 days behind bars, followed by 13 months of house arrest and 1,000 hours of community service for his involvement in the …

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Silver badge

I always wondered when someone gets hit with a big fine like that, assuming they don't have much in the way of personal assets, why not declare bankruptcy? It would take most people a life time to pay off that much and that’s without any other penalties, fees or interest.

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Silver badge

As idiotic as it is to hack a megacorp and leak customers information etc, I kinda feel sorry for the guy. Not for the jail or the community service, but the fine on top. Lets face it, he's never going to be able to pay that. Hell, even if he could get a good job after spending a year in jail I doubt he could pay that.

I'd have to work around 25 years to save up that amount, And that's just to earn that amount, if you take living expenses etc he's basically going to be paying back that fine for the rest of his life.

I mean lets face it, there are rapists, child molesters and violent criminals who get fined less than that. They should at least lower the fine to something sane that the guy might be able to pay off.

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I suppose there's the risk of setting a precedent. Make the fine small, and next time round all the defense attorneys will be pleading that their client should only get a slap on the wrist. Of course he'll never pay the fine, but it goes down in legal history as "appropriate" to the offence.

There's something to be said for the system in some of the scandinavian companies (Finland?) where the fines for relatively small offenses can be based on income. Didn't one Finnish exec get hit with a $200K fine for speeding?

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Court fines are non dischargeable debts in the USA, at leas under chap 7 (and I presume chap 13).

Similar to how student loans are in the UK, court fines probably are in the UK also otherwise people would just go ok and declare.

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Unhappy

At my current rate of saving money...

...80 years, but I have living expenses and like buying things on eBay.

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That money

Rather than lining Sony's pockets, shouldn't it really be distributed to the people whose personal details were leaked? Surely they're the folks who were most inconvenienced in all of this?

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h3
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Other than for council tax in the UK generally you go to jail you don't pay the fine. (And you can go bankrupt unless you owe the court). You can go to jail instead of paying the fine.

The situation he is now in is the only way to pay that back would be to commit more crime realistically.

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Facepalm

Re: h3

".....The situation he is now in is the only way to pay that back would be to commit more crime realistically." Yeah, but realistically, crime was all this idiot was ever destined for anyway. His stupid "lulz" have made him a career criminal or a very poor person. That is the lesson, the example set for others.

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Megaphone

and how did Sony get the customer's information?

I'm thinking back to the rootkits that Sony were deliberately distributing in their media not so long ago....

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WTF?

Re: and how did Sony get the customer's information?

Yes we get it. Sony once used a stupid and misguided method to prevent copy protection. They got panned for it and stopped using it. What the hell that has to do with this I can't begin to guess. The rootkit didn't scrape data, send anything over the network or anything remotely similar.

Really, get over the rootkit thing - it's wearing really thin. It wasn't that big a thing at the time in reality, and now it's pretty much ancient history.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: and how did Sony get the customer's information?

I think you need to look up the dictionary definition of deliberate, and also perhaps get some facts on the SonyBMG/F4I thing from somewhere less biased than am Xbot edited Wikipedia page, or a report from the Microsoft engineer who discovered it (totally unrelated of course).

You sound like one of those brainwashed morons ranting about something they read on the internet once.

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Silver badge

Re: and how did Sony get the customer's information?

That rootkit thing might be old, but it's a good thing people are still haranguing Sony BMG over it. Wouldn't want to let the bastards think they can get away with it again.

Also seems the sentencing was less to do with justice and more to do with tearing someone's balls off because they can. 600 grand? Really?

How much did Sony BMG end up forking out in $7.50 increments to the people who could be bothered claiming or even knew there was a claim? Was it more or less than $600,000?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: and how did Sony get the customer's information?

"I'm thinking back to the rootkits that Sony were deliberately distributing in their media not so long ago...."

Well hopefully Barry Shitpeas will stop by to explain to you how that wasn't really Sony, it was "some other Sony".

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Re: and how did Sony get the customer's information?

"Also seems the sentencing was less to do with justice and more to do with tearing someone's balls off because they can."

Moden US "justice" revolves far more closely around "retribution" than "rehabilitation"

We all know what happened when that type of justice was deployed in Europe in 1918 - and how long it took for the conequences to show up - but they are starting to show up.

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h3
Bronze badge

Re: and how did Sony get the customer's information?

Sony has been producing mediocre overpriced proprietary junk for the entirety of the time it has existed.

(Any time you trust them then they will screw you over - my Xperia Play mistake means I won't be trusting them again ever. Won't fix manufacturing defects. Didn't update the firmware (After saying they definitely would which was the only reason I even bought the device.) I am through with them).

No other companies act like such scum.

Panasonic/Mitsubishi actually are what people think Sony is.

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Silver badge

Re: and how did Sony get the customer's information?

"That rootkit thing might be old, but it's a good thing people are still haranguing Sony BMG over it. Wouldn't want to let the bastards think they can get away with it again."

Every single consumer tablet and smart phone, and the services they are tied to infringes far more than this piece of ancient history.

It's just thrown out with these kind of stories as if some lame and soon abandoned CD drm is in any way an acceptable excuse to hack into and steal customer credit card data.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: and how did Sony get the customer's information?

Sony has been producing mediocre overpriced proprietary junk for the entirety of the time it has existed.

Like Apple?

(Any time you trust them then they will screw you over -

Like Apple?

my Xperia Play mistake means I won't be trusting them again ever. Won't fix manufacturing defects.

Like Apple?

Didn't update the firmware (After saying they definitely would which was the only reason I even bought the device.) I am through with them).

Not like Apple... Apple actually do update firmware to a point.

No other companies act like such scum.

Except Apple?

Panasonic/Mitsubishi actually are what people think Sony is.

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MJI
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Stupid punishment

Stupid fine, stupid hours of community service, stupid sentence.

1000 hours is a year at 40 hours a week.

US punishments are completely disproportionate.

I could understand 3 months, or say a few hundred hours, but the money is just well not feasable.

Better off emigrating to Russia.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Stupid punishment

Interesting arithmetic

Depending on public holidays (let's say 10 for easy counting) and vacations (let's say just 2 weeks for the underprivileged US working class), plus the odd day and that gives (48*40)+8 = 1928. So basically you missed by factor of ca. 2.

I would ask for my tuition fees back were I you.

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MJI
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Re: Stupid punishment

I was busy!

OK 6 months then - still disproportionate

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Bronze badge

The floggings will continue, etc.

-- ordered by US District Judge John Kronstadt to pay $605,663 in compensation to Sony's movie division, --

If he refuses, he stays locked up until it's paid. . See how that works? Me neither.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The floggings will continue, etc.

It works like this..full life sentences are not allowed, so it's a way of doing it by the back door.

I also thought his hacker alias was a bit suspect...I mean - Neuron (in the singular).

Was what he did wrong? Yes

Should he be punished? Yes

However the punishment seems* to be very heavy handed.

*only 'seems',because in the new information age, the only people who stand a chance of getting round all the snooping and hack the government for the real information (as opposed to the media bullshit we all get fed) are the hackers. Therefore they come down hardest on those they deem the biggest threat. It has fuck all to do with the damage done to Sony and everything to do with scaring the shit out of wannabe hackers.

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Holmes

Re: debtor's prison.

We haven't had that in the USA in a loooong time. He'll get released after the jail + house arrest (presumably with about 50% time off for good behavior), but the unpayable fine will ensure that he never again votes, serves on a jury, and so forth. In most states of the US, you lose such civil rights once you are a convicted felon, and can petition the state to have your rights reinstated only once you satisfy your punishment (serve your time, any community service, and fully pay any fines).

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Anonymous Coward

This is infact double lulz.

The initial incident was lulz.

Him going to prison is also lulz.

Glory to the Anons, there are lulz in all outcomes (as long as you are a passive bystander of lulz)

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Bankruptcy? Of course sir, we calculate your total assets come to $135,789.45 which will be paid to your debtors. This sum includes your organs, skin, bone marrow, corneas and any other usable parts of your anatomy, when would you like to be liquidated?

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"skilled computer forensics"

query on the NSA database?

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Topsy turvy

As naughty as the chap was for doing a Broderick and hacking in, isn't his fine considerably more than the one slapped on Sony for having such lax and irresponsible security in the first place?

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Anonymous Coward

It's all good

Personally I'd prefer to see all hackers get a uniform minimum 10 year prison sentence as Japan has. This would be a good disincentive and for the socially challenged they'd have a permanent residence for 10 years.

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Re: It's all good

A minimum ten year sentence?

For making your sister's display flip upside down and go funny colours?

Fucking glad I live nowhere near Japan. They have USA-style batshit-crazy IP laws too.

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Bronze badge

Re: It's all good

One thing that research has proven again and again is that nobody thinks of the consequences of being caught when they commit a crime.

So the concept of punishment of any kind acting as a deterrent is absolutely specious.

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Re: It's all good

If the sentences for burglary, assault, rape etc are all at least as high, maybe. But if you think attempting to access someone's computer without permission is worse than those things then you sir, are a nit.

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WTF?

Re: breakfast Re: It's all good

"One thing that research has proven again and again is that nobody thinks of the consequences of being caught when they commit a crime......" Please do provide a link to this "research" as it sounds like complete male bovine manure.

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h3
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Re: It's all good

That would cost probably about as much as this fine. (Think it costs use £40000 a year to keep someone locked up). It is a colossal waste of the tax payers money as much as anything else.

I think the companies should be made liable for their own systems. If you want the system like that then also the CEO and the person directly responsible for the security of the system should also do 10 years.

The fact that these hackers succeed means the people responsible for the systems are utter garbage and as they are professionally supposed to be dealing with the problem they are the ones at fault.

(We can have good security - Nobody has managed to steal one of our nuclear submarines yet).

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Boffin

Re: breakfast It's all good

There is a science called Criminology, which is largely - counter to what popular TV drama would have you believe - a statistical study of criminal behaviour. This is exactly the type of area that criminology takes interest in. Basically any search of criminological literature will find you a lot of papers on the topic of punishment as prevention ( deterrence ) , which will generally concur that making punishment more severe is ineffective with two provisos:

Someone who is in prison cannot commit crimes while they are in prison.

Someone who has been executed cannot commit crimes while they are dead.

Making the punishment for a crime a person doesn't believe they will be caught for more heavy doesn't affect them because they don't believe they will be caught. Making policing more effective so that they believe they will get caught means that they are less likely to commit the crime regardless of what the punishment is.

Introduction to the topic here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deterrence_(legal)

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Boffin

Re: breakfast It's all good

"....Making the punishment for a crime a person doesn't believe they will be caught for more heavy doesn't affect them because they don't believe they will be caught......" Which is why the authorities publicise the convictions of those caught committing crimes. Your theory only holds if those that don't think they will get caught remain ignorant of those that did get caught. Human beings are risk assessment machines, it is designed into us as nature's survival mechanism. Every day, many times a day, our brains are calculating risk based on our assessment of our surroundings, environment and means - can we pull out in that gap in traffic safely, can we afford to buy that new car - all risk assessments. We do often make mistakes in those assessments - we crash cars and get into debt - but we actually all make many successful risk assessments every day where we correctly predict the outcome of our actions. Where we get it wrong most often is where we don't look at all the evidence we should when making our assessments, either through ignorance or through deliberately letting an emotion like ego or greed over-ride our commonsense, which is how many criminals fool themselves with the idea they will not be caught. Drawing attention to those that made the same mistakes and did get convicted makes it harder for other crims to think they can get away with it. Making the sentence tough highlights the possible bad outcome. And, as you point out, locking crims up stops them committing crimes during the period of their sentence, so the longer the sentence the more time we get without them committing crimes (except in prison to each other) and helps them realize what they have to lose if they return to crime upon release.

"....Making policing more effective so that they believe they will get caught means that they are less likely to commit the crime regardless of what the punishment is." Agreed, but again only if the crims correctly assess their chances of getting caught by realizing the capabilities of the authorities. Idiots that tell each other "coppers are dumb", or "the pigs can't catch us 'cos we is 'leet", well they're just living in denial.

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I firmly believe...

I firmly believe there will come a day in the not too distant future where hackers will save us all from unjustified oppression. So lets not jail them all for the rest of their lives.

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@James Gosling

"I firmly believe there will come a day in the not too distant future where hackers will save us all from unjustified oppression. "

.. and so, when that time arrrives, all oppression from which hackers will not be able to save us -is- justified?

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Re: I firmly believe...

This is perhaps precisely why the State is locking them up

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600 grand eh?

Hey look 600 grand sure is a lot more money than Sony has made the last five years as well (ten of billions lost < 600 grand made).

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Anonymous Coward

How's that workin' for ya?

Hacking ain't all it's cracked up to be, now is it?

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Innocent parties

Whilst it may be considered fair game to try to hack organisations that should have the correct security in place what about the 139,000 people who had their personal details compromised and were probably highly inconvenienced. At less that 5 dollars a victim some might feel he got off very lightly.

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Joke

Now that's a busy "Neuron".

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FAIL

I remember this Sony company...

They were the ones that tried to hack in and damage my PlayStation 3. Did any of their employees get charged with that????

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