back to article 'Look, give us Snowden' - this Friday's top US-Russia talks revealed

America will hold high-level talks on political and military teamwork with Russia this Friday - despite the latter country's offer of temporary asylum to NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden. US Secretary of State John Kerry and Secretary of Defence Chuck Hagel are due to meet their Russian counterparts in Washington to discuss " …

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Anonymous Coward

Look, just give us Snowden

sure, no problem, just give us Bout

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Re: Look, just give us Snowden

"sure, no problem, just give us Bout"

No comparison, Bout is an arms dealer responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands, possibly millions. Of course, if you wish to compare Snowden with him you'll have to run hard - apart from the fact that Snowden has effectively attacked his own government - inasmuch that Snowden has ethical pretensions, and Bout doesn't give a fuck. Perhaps, in the final axiological analysis, nothing really matters it's merely a game of claiming that things matter. Your choice. Quite literally and axiologically.

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Holmes

Re: Look, just give us Snowden

No comparison, Bout is an arms dealer responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands, possibly millions.

You missed the point. The US government invokes international law when it suits their needs, when it doesn't they don't break a sweat over it.

That they seem so hurt over Russia not giving away Snowden, when they themselves have protected far worse people, only makes their hypocrisy more glaring.

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Meh

Re: Look, just give us Snowden

"Snowden has effectively attacked his own government"

Defended his fellow citizens and country?

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Re: Look, just give us Snowden

> possibly millions

Oh drama.

Can't be. He hasn't got a medal yet.

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Re: Look, just give us Snowden

In this case US invoke no law, but resolutely demand that Mr President Putin brazenly break it, for all the word to see. But these are Russian laws anyway, so who cares...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Look, just give us Snowden

Do you mean like the US military complex that includes handgun manufacturers that KILL thousands and possibly millions of innocent people every year? You know those 'little incidents' like Colombine and Sandy Hook.

At least Bout doesn't sell handguns inside the US... we do.

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"We would like to see Mr Snowden returned to the United States. I don’t know technically what that requires, but we know they have the capability to do that," she said.

Actually I'm pretty sure now that they've granted him temporary asylum they can't. I mean isn't the whole idea of asylum that they're granted protection from this sort of thing? Surely changing their minds afterwards would break some kind of UN protocol (they always have a protocol)

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I'm not an expert on geo-politics in anyway, but doesn't the US tend to ignore the UN when it suits?

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I think the way it goes is Asylum is granted where somebody fears persecution. Assuming the US can convince Russia that this isn't the case this could be withdrawn

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Holmes

Just a bit, plus...

When it's a UN vote like 100 in favour, 30 against plus abstainers and the US is in the 100 it's a Great Day For Democracy(tm)

When it's something else which gets like 154 against, 1 for (yeah guess who) then it's more like 'very disappointed that good sense was cast aside (P.S. we'll do what the fuck we like anyway)'

I refer the honourable reader thusly: http://bit.ly/1cJ3ZYc (Google books page extract via bitly)

In fact start on the previous page, 86.

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Actually the USA tends to ignore the UN on principal. There was a case recently when they (the senate I believe) refused to ratify a UN convention on disabled rights. The stunning thing was the US had already met all the conditions 20 years ago. So basically it was nothing more than acknowleding what was already law. The real issue was elements of the senate see it as ceding authority to the UN. It views the UN as a tool, not an equal or higher power, and to cede power would be to acknowledge it was a higher power. Depending on what area of government, the US will not acknowledge any higher power than the federal or state government, at least in recent times.

Rightly or wrongly, that is how it is :-)

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Headmaster

Rightly or wrongly, that is how it is :-)

Get your memes in order, this isn't TDWTF. Definitely no Vice President's daughter here pal.

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Devil

"Assuming the US can convince Russia that this isn't the case..."

Ah, now- there's the rub...

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No. Article 12, section 4 of the Russian Federal law # 4528-1 of 19/02/1993 "On refugees" states: "A person who has been granted temporary asylum can not be returned against his will to the country of his nationality ( or country of his usual residence). Snowden has been granted temporary asylum under this law, so...

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So all they need to do to get around that is revoke his nationality and give Hawai'i it's sovereignty back. That or just slip some polonium 210 in his tea. The ruskies will love that.

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Anonymous Coward

Dear United States of America

When an American has to go to RUSSIA to be free and escape a rabid government persecution bordering on a mob witch burning, maybe that's the time to reflect and ask yourself 'Gee, is this really the path I want to take?'"

Hugs and kisses.

The rest of the civilized world.

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Re: Dear United States of America

That's exactly why Russia won't give him up unless America somehow promises them the moon on a stick: a yank requesting asylum from Russia is a MASSIVE PR coup.

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Meh

Re: Dear United States of America

In fairness, until the non-stop anti-snowden propaganda changes their minds for them - even half of the US think he was more right than wrong.

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Stop

Re: Dear United States of America

Mr Putin described him as 'an unwanted gift' not quite the sort of phrase usually used to describe a PR coup,

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Re: Dear United States of America

That's diplo speak for "Woohoo we have someone with intimate knowledge of the NSA" but need to be seen to begrudgingly take him in.

In reality, I bet he is being debriefed extensively by the Russians right now.

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Go

Re: Dear United States of America

Unwanted <> having no value. If I received a Bugatti Veyron tomorrow, it would be an unwanted gift. I could still definitely turn it to my advantage (Even second hand, I'm sure I could sell it and buy a pretty nice house with the proceeds.)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Dear United States of America

No shit,

There was a time when ballerinas and KGB colonels used to defect to the US for a better life. Gave the US some moral high-ground to stand on and a nice rep for TJATAW too, Now it looks like the Russkis are getting a little payback. I'm surprised they aren't riding this whole thing harder.

WTF happened? Has whistle-blowing, forum chatting and leaking become the only form of civil disobedience left ? How long before that's gone too?

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Black Helicopters

take him out

The Russians have previously demonstrated that they can get someone into a foreign country to perform an assassination on someone they find troublesome...I'm slightly surprised that the Americans haven't tried something similar with Snowden

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Anonymous Coward

Re: take him out

How do you know they haven't tried?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: take him out

I'm not sure they would dare do that. It would start off a big change.

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Re: take him out

No way, the American Government would never stoop to such...

Hey, guys, what's that red dot?

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Joke

Re: take him out

You know how I'd do it?

Attach a sniper rifle to the X-37B minishuttle, and aim it in Russia's general direction. Maybe design bullets with heat shields so they don't burn up on reentry.

All Snowden has to do is look up once and *bloop*.

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Re: take him out

>How do you know they haven't tried?

Because a mountain in N Wales hasn't been bombed by mistake

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Coat

Re: take him out

The drones are reportedly being withdrawn slowly from Pakistan and Afghanistan - I wonder where they will be going next ? :)

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ACx

Re: take him out

New York, Washington, Boston, Miami, San Francisco, Austin.......... The US gov fears Americans as much as it does foreigners.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: take him out

The drones, the controlling AI's and trigger-operating flesh-bots are attuned to killing brown people on a background of sand, reconfiguring them to "white on green" carry a high risk of unintended consequences.

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Black Helicopters

Re: take him out

"How do you know they haven't tried?"

There's been no embarassing cockup in the news...

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Re: take him out

"How do you know they haven't tried?"

He's still alive and no squawking. Give it a little time. It takes a while to mount that sort of operation, especially in a police state.

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Coat

Re: take him out (@ Scorchio!!)

"It takes a while to mount that sort of operation, especially in a police state."

Yep, see how long it took them to kill Osama.

Mmmhh... Ah, oops! You meant the Russians!...

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Re: take him out

"Give it a little time. It takes a while to mount that sort of operation, especially in a police state."

But he left the United States!

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It's ridiculous

Don't these idiots have anything better to do?! Their country's economy is in shambles, they live off Chinese money yet they still they chase Snowden and poke around in Iran. Effin' douchebags.

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Mushroom

My contempt and hate of everything Obama is growing...

It's growing faster than the Ackermann function.

I will magnanimously include the rest of the political caste and their assorted sycophants in press and think tanks into this.

I hope some gigantic meteorite laden with cancer-causing chemicals but curiously exhibiting the form of an eagle coloured in blue, white and red flattens everything inside the Beltway.

Then we can plant beautiful trees on top.

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Re: My contempt and hate of everything Obama is growing...

"I hope some gigantic meteorite laden with"

you said laden. The NSA will be watching you now.

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Black Helicopters

Re: My contempt and hate of everything Obama is growing...

@NomNomNom, you mentioned the "L" word twice! Do you hear the black choppers heading your way?

Nice knowing you, wonder what Cuba is like today?

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Joke

Re: My contempt and hate of everything Obama is growing...

You should bin that comment now.

Oh shit.

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This post has been deleted by its author

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Angel

Re: My contempt and hate of everything Obama is growing...

Can you counter the effect by talking about UNladen swallows?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: My contempt and hate of everything Obama is growing...

Try to let us know what its like in Gitmo

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Re: My contempt and hate of everything Obama is growing...

Really? You fell for the hype and promises?

Anyone that ignored that and looked at what the two did *before* they were groomed to run for POTUS would have found the only real differences between Obama and McCain was their stated political affiliation and skin tone.

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Joke

Re: My contempt and hate of everything Obama is growing...

You say Osama, & I say Obama,

You say 'more amour', & I say 'more armour'

Osama, Obama,

More amour, more armour,

Oh, let's call the whole thing off!

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Happy

Re: My contempt and hate of everything Obama is growing...(@ Destroy All Monsters)

"I hope some gigantic meteorite ..."

Careful there! You could be accused of Astronomical Terrorism!. And then you would be charged with 'Intent to Commit Astronomical Terrorism', 'Possession of Astronomical Terrorism Paraphernalia', 'Astronomical Terrorism on Mondays', 'Astronomical Terrorism on Tuesdays', and so on, like Manning!

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Joke

Re: My contempt and hate of everything Obama is growing...

Nope. Didn't we just agree that the US doesn't care much about the UN...?

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This post has been deleted by its author

Bah!

Wasn't it Obama himself who said whitleblowers should be protected and not procecuted? The US is a country of liars and backstabbers, who will only do the right thing, if it serves their purpose. The US like to point to other countries when it comes to human rights, but they themselves wipe their ass with human rights if they feel the need for it.

I'm finding myself cheering for Rusia, though i must admit that has a strange taste to it.

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