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back to article Chubby-chasing SEX TROLLS ran me offline, says fashion blogger

A fashionista who blogs about clothing for "beautiful, well-dressed fat women" has become the latest person to step up and slam the behaviour of misogynistic trolls. Bronny Zigmond, a self-described “20-something fat feminist lady” from Australia, runs a blog called Fat Aus dedicated to helping chubby fashion-lovers find …

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Silver badge

Welcome to the real world, kid.

In a 3,000,000,000+ person city like TehIntraWebTubes, you're likely to run across across a few assholes. Especially if you troll in the underbelly of said city. Which you were, although (perhaps) unwittingly.

Hint: Lose weight. You'll be happier & live longer. See this post:

http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/containing/485487

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Welcome to the real world, kid.

Happiness? Live longer?

You need to get out more and meet some real life goths.

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Bronze badge

Re: Welcome to the real world, kid.

So why don't men run into as many assholes as women?

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Unhappy

Re: Welcome to the real world, kid.

Actually in the real world bystanders would react negatively to these kinds of explicit comments and it is the public shock and negativity that is missing from these forums. Probably because they are so specialist only the trolls and victims see them. Therefore it is our duty as normal people to stand up and point out to the trolls that their behaviour is ill-informed and unwanted - not to tell the bullied victim to shut up and take it

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Re: Welcome to the real world, kid.

@breakfast

"So why don't men run into as many assholes as women?"

We do we just handle it differently.

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Headmaster

Re: So why don't men run into as many assholes as women?

Mathematically, wouldn't men run into the exact same number of assholes in any given day? Perhaps said assholes express themselves differently toward women (misogyny, objectification, etc), but I'll go out on a limb and posit that such individuals probably almost universally express their assholishness in a whole variety of ways. If someone's a jerk their gonna be a jerk no matter who they run into. Whether the conduct of male jerks toward females is more reprehensible (or perhaps simply perceived as offensive by the target) than some other gender configuration however could obviously be a subject of debate.

To suggest that assholes are only a problem for women however, is to needlessly isolate ones self from the billions of men who share your distaste for assholeish behavior. I think this is the logic you're missing here. Welcome to the real world where we all have to deal with assholes. Give enough people access to a public forum and some perception of anonymity and you'll have to deal with assholes.

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Re: Welcome to the real world, kid.

@codejunky

We do we just handle it differently.

Bollocks. I remember playing Halo 2 on XBox Live years ago with no mic, using my housmates account which had a female-sounding name.

If you've never done that you have no fucking idea, trust me. You get all the normal shit that everyone gets, plus a constat stream of "I'm going to fuck you", "I want to stick my tounge in your pussy, "I'm going to hunt you down and rape you."

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Thumb Down

Re: Welcome to the real world, kid.

We don't because a far higher proportion of men are arseholes than women.

If I think back over my whole life and all the people I have ever known, far far more of the arseholes were men. The simple fact .is that prisons are full of men not women, obnoxious, threatening and violent behaviour is almost always perpetrated by men and all these cretinous trolls on the net are men.

It may be true that we (men that is, yes I am one of them) handle it differently but then we hardly have to as we encounter almost no unpleasantness from women compared to the barrage of unpleasantness many women have to tolerate from men.

I'm sorry to say it, but men suck.

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Bronze badge

Re: Welcome to the real world, kid.

@ mike2R

"If you've never done that you have no fucking idea, trust me. You get all the normal shit that everyone gets, plus a constat stream of "I'm going to fuck you", "I want to stick my tounge in your pussy, "I'm going to hunt you down and rape you.""

Poor mike. Poor poor mike. And how many offers of a T baggng do you get? Add the streams of insults towards you and your family. Guys and gals get this and I am not agreeing with it or opposing, I am remaining neutral.

That is part of the reason I play PC games. Much fewer children yet I still occasionally see a comment or two. Usually followed by an admin threatening to kick em for being idiots.

I will point out that in a simple comment telling me that you somehow know better (trust you) that you felt the need to swear twice at me (not including the quotes you attribute to other players). You start with bollocks and move on to fucking.

While not talking of any action you would take to me you still chose your language. I am not insulted nor offended but figured it was worth mentioning

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Silver badge

Re: So why don't men run into as many assholes as women?

We run into just as many as women, but male assholes tend to not objectify other males the way they do females. And female assholeness* tends to express itself in ways that do not translate well to the internet. Women, for whatever reason, are less likely to objectify men. The female equivalent of the guy giving a detailed, graphic description of what he'd like to do to a woman (and, as often as not I suspect, not realizing what an ass he's being by doing so) is the woman complaining that all men are pigs or who constantly makes comments like "only a man would blah" or who knowingly leads men on to get free drinks at the bar then purposefully gives them a wrong phone number (which is doubly bad because then an innocent, happily married nerd in his mid 30s gets texts in the middle of the night from some horny 20 something guy...not-so-random example). These are just as common as your garden variety perverted troll, and in my opinion just as bad, but more socially acceptable.

Anyway, my point is that there're just as many women with bad behavior toward men as men who act this way. It's just that their bad behavior doesn't tend to be sexual in nature.

*Yes, yes, I'm making up words now.

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Bronze badge

Re: Welcome to the real world, kid.

"We don't because a far higher proportion of men are arseholes than women."

Please show me a peer reviewed study with good data to back up this claim.

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Devil

Re: Welcome to the real world, kid.

It's like that scene in "Generation Kill" where the hapelss female pogue gets the male treatment, really.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Welcome to the real world, kid.

Put yourself out there, expect some crap to come your way, it's human nature.

Just like celebrities the world over, they want adulation but.... They don't wants their dark sides revealed.

Whinging doesn't get you anywhere.

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FAIL

Re: Welcome to the real world, kid.

Who says they don't?

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Bronze badge

Re: Welcome to the real world, kid.

Men do. Its just repetitive blows to the cranial region eventually get said arseholes to be very selective of the men they are arseholes to.

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Boffin

Re: Welcome to the real world, kid.

It is interesting that I have 11 downvotes for pointing out the failures of thinking in mike2R's comment. He attacked my claim that both men and women suffer abuse by swearing at me and telling me about his xbox gaming experience.

So I wonder what the problem is. I guess these 11 people dont count the kid justin bieber as a guy since he pretty much seems to be the central attraction for abuse. Maybe the 11 voters dont play computer games or somehow believe (without justifying with a reply) that only women take abuse online (or in general). Maybe mike has 11 accounts and doesnt like his excessive choice of language pointing out (I have no problems with swearing but there was no need for it in his comment).

Or maybe I just upset 11 xbox players with my PC comment, and while they can click a down vote button they find a keyboard challenging? The fact that he cant manage a simple counter comment without swearing seems funny on a topic about inappropriate language used unnecessarily.

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MJI
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Re: Welcome to the real world, kid. Mike2R

I have seen bits of this, but it always ends up with the idiots being picked on.

When you see woman players always with the same groups, they will shut them up with lots of kills, basically the idiots are targeted.

Even funnier when the woman is the wife of one of the other players. This makes the idiots panic quit.

This is a hardcore FPS.

Yet on a more casual TPS you do get more idiots including some players blocking in female characters (not players) and trying to hump them using the taunt system. Dropping a grenade gets the message through, then they got booted. I occasionally played female characters as they were nicer to watch

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Re: Welcome to the real world, kid.

@codejunky

I guess people understood that I wasn't swearing at you. I did describe your opinion as bollocks, I'll admit, but that was more being succinct than anything else. Any other description would have been considerably more wordy, and probably no less insulting for omitting the obscenity. Say "utterly wrong, and indicative of an either an inability to understand the issue, a deep lack of knowledge of it, or latent sexism on your part".

You are arguing that men and women get the same amount of crap online. This is just plain wrong. There is a whole level of unpleasantness which purely flows from some men to women. If you don't understand this then i can tell you, as I said, from experience of being mistaken for a women on XBox Live, you have no fucking idea (swearing in this case is for emphasis). Try it sometime. Considering how sensitive you seem to be, I do not think you would like it at all.

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Paris Hilton

Re: Welcome to the real world, kid.

Agreed, females get a lot of crap from FPS gamers. I play a lot and I've seen it.

OTOH whenever I play a new game I always start with a cute female char and a gender-neutral name. Because as a male char, if I screw up through inexperience I get a torrent of abuse as a 'fuckin noob'. My female char gets some kindly guy talking me through where I went wrong, or even mentoring me through the next level.

Once I'm up to speed on how the game works, I retire cutie and go back to the bald git I usually play. Gender in FPS works both ways.

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Bronze badge

Re: Welcome to the real world, kid.

@mike2R

"If you don't understand this then i can tell you, as I said, from experience of being mistaken for a women on XBox Live, you have no fucking idea (swearing in this case is for emphasis). Try it sometime. Considering how sensitive you seem to be, I do not think you would like it at all."

I have done it which is why I dont believe you. I have listened and read on PC games and xbox. I find on the xbox there is a lot more insulting (in my experience) but it is dished out to all. Maybe you do hang out in some sexist servers. Maybe your imagining girls get it worse. Maybe I am lucky to play in various random servers where women and men are treated equally. Nicely or not.

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Facepalm

"stand up and point out to the trolls "

NEVER feed the trolls.

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One wonders (was: Re: Welcome to the real world, kid.)

How many of the folks that seemed to disagree with my commentardary were obese? And why they think that being lard-asses is a good idea?

Honestly, the mind boggles.

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Bronze badge

Female assholeness?

@sisk:

It's called misandry.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Welcome to the real world, kid.

Oooh, can we have more of people like you on here, please?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: So why don't men run into as many assholes as women?

Nope, nope, nope. Ask any woman who has just been groped on the Tube, or been propositioned and when the delightful advances have been rebuffed called vile names whether they have heard of men getting the same treatment and we'll say no. You may get some different treatment but I struggle to believe it is on the same scale based on what I hear from male friends. In fact if you repeat these stories to your friends quite a few men will dismiss them and say "take it as a compliment", or "you're making a fuss over nothing" because they are totally unaware of the scale that this crap happen. And this is being repeated online.

So women commit the same type of offences (on or off line) on the same scale? I don't think so.

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Unhappy

Re: Welcome to the real world, kid.

They do, you just don't hear about them as often as women tend to be more subtle about such things. Trust me they are out there, I have had to get a restraining order or two in my day, they just don't use the net as much as the guys do. I hate to say it but sometimes stereotypes ARE true and women seem to just be better manipulators and realize that anything they post can be traced back while guys are about as subtle as a bull in a china shop.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Welcome to the real world, kid.

Nope, still disagree. I wasn't just referring only to degree but frequency. Every woman I know (young and old) has had some guy making inappropriate comments, been shouted at in public, groped, leered at, intimidated....it goes on, and that's just the low level stuff. What is the male equivalent? There is none. Oh..actually drunk women in groups shouting at men in the street...that's the only example I can think of.

Then you ramp up to full-on nutter through to criminal abuse, and threats and then actual physical harm. Of course there are some extreme people of both gender but I do not, can not, believe the nature or quantity of incidents is anywhere similar for men as it it for women.

Regardless, abuse and threats of either gender of a criminal nature need to be addressed by Twitter, and the criminal's accounts blocked quickly

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Flame

Re: So why don't men run into as many assholes as women?

" Ask any woman who has just been groped on the Tube, or been propositioned and when the delightful advances have been rebuffed called vile names whether they have heard of men getting the same treatment and we'll say no."

I say "yes". I have been called "fag", "cock sucker", asked if I were impotent and so on. Just because, guess what, I rebuffed female (I'm male) advances online. And the insults were dished out by the female.

I don't know about the proportion, but to say women are saints...

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This post has been deleted by a moderator

How many times does this kind of thing have to happen before people realise that once something is on the internet they have no control what happens to it. The whole world gets to see your words or photos or video and that means you get the whole world's varying viewpoints. You think you're talking to a select group like in a pub but you're not. You're shouting out your message in a huge stadium. Most of the time no one is listening, but if someone does catch it, it could go round the whole stadium/world.

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Stop

I used to agree with that. Still do to the extent that you're right that you'll never eliminate this sort of behaviour. However I do not believe the current state of affairs, particularly the huge amount of shit even slightly promenant women have to put up with online, is the best the human race can do.

I never really realised how bad it is until rockpapershotgun, a gaming blog I read, took it up as an issue (a female writer for them got a load of abuse I think). The sheer number of very very angry men this created was a real eye opener. I'm now fully in favour of creating a stink over this sort of behaviour. I'm not a fan of legal sactions (outside threats of or incitement to violence) but I think there is a lot of room for behavioural change, which can come about by people making a fuss about the issue and highlighting it as unacceptable, rather than just treating it as normal.

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Alert

Lower your expectations

"The best the human race can do." Online? That's a laugh. If you're looking for the best the human race can do, you're looking in the wrong place. Going online, I assume there will be stuff I disagree with, things that are distasteful, derogatory, and even hateful, but I accept it because if I want the benefits of going online, I also have to accept some risks.

That said, I've learned not to feed the trolls, online or off.

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Re: Lower your expectations

It will never be pleasant, but things can and will be improved. The issue regarding the abuse women get online is not just because its online and everyone gets abuse, its so bad because there is still a deep well of misogyny in most if not all cultures.

This has improved, and will improve further. Women publicly standing up to this shit when it happens to them, and other people weighing in and making it clear that it is not acceptable, is one of the ways that this will be improved.

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Re: Lower your expectations

"This has improved, and will improve further."

No it won't. Certainly not while it's possible to post and be sure that the person you are insulting or threatening can't just turn round and punch you in the face for what you just said.

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Re: Lower your expectations

You're missing the point. It's very easy to be oblivious to it, if you are a man who does not personally harass women. Apart from a few oddities we have equality now right? Anyone who says differently is just a symptom of political correctness gone mad. Thing is that's crap - any woman who is even slightly promenant is going to attract a whole range of shit online which simply doesn't happen to men

This is what will improve over time - the misogyny - as the process of leaving it behind gradually continues. All the truisms about anonymity causing people to act like arseholes will remain, so there will still be arseholes on the internet. But there will be fewer who specifically attack women in the way that happens now.

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Coat

Not just women.

I took images at the local skate park and posted on Flickr to try and help them with fund raising and getting the skate park updated. After a while the snaps were found by some jeans fetish creep who commented about the youngsters images in ways I found inappropriate. The UK is mad enough with Daily Mail reading morons assuming that “anyone with a camera around kids is up to no good”, add in some gay German getting over exited and then commenting was just revolting to me*.

I don't know the solution to free speech and open internet but I feel we need some ways to discourage the reduction to the lowest urges in all interactions.

Not having been to a gallery for a while I assume art shows don't have people walking round shouting “look at the arse on that!, hey great tits!”

Everyone now has a voice, not everyone has self restraint or decency.

If you wouldn't say it in the person, I question whether it is better unsaid.

Can the register acquire global powers so we can express our highly valued (obviously) opinions on world issues?

Get that knock on the door “This is the downvote police, we need to have a word with you”.

OH, I've used the down.... word, I'll get my coat.

* I don't have an issue with his being gay or jeans fetish but I do think there is time and place for everything, kids enjoying themselves in a healthy way in a public location is neither IMHO.

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Re: Not just women.

@Powernumpty

Words you never want to hear outside N Korea-

"I don't know the solution to free speech"

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Re: Not just women.

"If you wouldn't say it in the person, I question whether it is better unsaid."

Look at Andrien Chen's assesment of Violentacrez: at least some of these people would say it face to face; they're the internet equivalent of workmen who shout at women.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Not just women.

> Not having been to a gallery for a while I assume art shows don't have people walking round shouting “look at the arse on that!, hey great tits!”

But if you copied the same pictures to a porno gallery then you would have people making suggestive comments. I think I'm left with the impression that the only difference between art and porn is context. There are plenty of amateur couples these days generating home produced porn photos that are of a much higher technical and artistic quality than a lot of so called professional artist photography.

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Unhappy

Re: Not just women.

Free speech is not the same as freedom to abuse and insult

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(Written by Reg staff)

Re: Re: Not just women.

Yes it is. Without those freedoms, you don't have freedom of speech - clue's in the name.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Not just women.

@AC:

"I think I'm left with the impression that the only difference between art and porn is context."

The difference between everything is context. Everything we do or say is based on context. Mistakes of context cause friction. People looking to take things out of context cause friction. Context expands our language beyond words.

And so we have the context of some seriously sad morons who probably want to get laid but cant so they are trapped with their imagination and 2 inches. Oh and a computer.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Not just women.

" * I don't have an issue with his being gay or jeans fetish "

Thank God you stopped there. For a moment I thought you were going to add that you did not have an issue with his being German.

(Apologies to any Germans in the audience, let's not start a war over this now)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Not just women.

Gaz, no it isn't. Freedoms are not absolute, neither in theory nor in practice.

The clue is that places like the US are quite Ok allowing abuse and insult and passing that off as "freedom of speech", but see where my "freedom" goes when I start talking about subjects their prudish society finds more uncomfortable such as say sexuality, and see where that "freedom" takes you in cases like Mr. Snowden's or Mr. Manning's.

So please, do not confuse freedom to be an arse with freedom of speech.

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Silver badge

Re: Not just women.

So can I sacrifice virgins to a volcano and claim freedom of religion as a defense? Most freedoms come with limitations.

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Silver badge

Re: Not just women. @gazthejourno

Wasn't planning to post here as I'm completely disinterested in fashionistas and I've nothing useful to add about trolls, but surely there is some line, so where do you draw it? What distinguishes permissible abuse and insult from something more?

I know the line's fuzzy but I'd like your view, ta (or anyone's with a clear view, thanks)

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Re: Not just women.

Sanctimonious rubbish there Gaz. Do not confuse freedom of speech with freedom to spout blatantly sexist threats. We have laws against this sort of stuff for a reason.

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(Written by Reg staff)

Re: Re: Not just women.

You should be free to spout blatantly sexist threats, just as the police are free to arrest you, the CPS are free to charge you, and the judge is free to find you guilty of making threats of violence and free to punish you accordingly.

The precautionary principle is no way to live.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Not just women.

Your freedom of speech does not overrule my right not to be abused and threatened.

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