back to article Dead STEVE JOBS was a CROOK - Judge

A US judge has found Apple guilty of conspiring with major publishers to fix the price of ebooks and has called for a trial on damages. District Judge Denise Cote stayed true to her initial impressions of the case, and ruled that Apple had colluded with Macmillan, Hachette, Penguin, HarperCollins and Simon & Schuster on digital …

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Anonymous Coward

And will anyone go to jail over this??? Don't be silly! Only poor people go to jail!!!

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Anonymous Coward

... but aren't the penalties for price fixing a fine of upto something like 10% of worldwide revenues.

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Anonymous Coward

I'm sure Apple will be getting the bill in the post tomorrow!!!!

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"... but aren't the penalties for price fixing a fine of upto something like 10% of worldwide revenues."

Only if it is tax deductable. And if you mean by World Wide revenues, World Wide except Ireland.

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re: worldwide revenues

Fortunately "Apple Earth inc" makes a loss because of the royalty payments it has to make to "Apple Omicron Persei 8"

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JDX
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People go to jail if they break the law, not companies. Also, people only go to jail in certain circumstances, fines are commonplace too.

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Anonymous Coward

The brave brave Judge

I bet he wouldn't have said a word if Jobs had been alive.....

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>"Don't be silly! Only poor people go to jail!!!"

And nerds - don't forget the nerds. The jails (and military detention centers) seem to be filling up with nerds these days...

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jai
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According to the headline of this article the person responsible is no longer alive and therefore free from prosecution.

Unless, that is, El Reg is putting words into the mouth of the judge.

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Re: The brave brave Judge

"I bet he wouldn't have said a word if Jobs had been alive....."

A very brave judge if he's male and goes by the name of Denise...

"District Judge Denise Cote stayed true to her initial impressions of the case, and ruled that Apple had colluded with Macmillan, Hachette, Penguin, HarperCollins and Simon & Schuster on digital …"

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@ Jai 16:32

There is no "person" responsible in this type of case; the entities involved were corporations, and the entities which executed the agreements sued upon were corporations. Mitt Romney is still wrong - corporations are NOT people, my friend.

Corporations also don't go to jail. There are fines, however, and other injunctive relief available to make sure it doesn't happen again.

The system can work, if you want it to.

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Paris Hilton

Re: The brave brave Judge

(She) probably would still have - District Judge Denise Cote.

We need more like her and Neelie Kroes and less of Paris. Or should that be more, of Paris?

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FAIL

What? This is such an absurd, illogical position to hold. Corporations aren't sentient beings that make their own decisions, the decisions are made by human beings within that corporation, are they going to see any time for fraud?

Do you also think Trafigura should just be 'fined' for dumping toxic waste in Africa? Someone at that company made that decision, and as far as I know the intangible concept of the Trafigura corporation hasn't developed self awareness and is directing it's own affairs without human input, maybe you know something to the contrary?

What kind of psychopath thinks that these evil bastards should be able to hide behind 'corporate fines'?

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"the decisions are made by human beings ... are they going to see any time for fraud?"

I agree, except that the crime in question wasn't fraud. People do go to prison for fraud, even when they commit it via a corporation. But the punishment for price-fixing is not imprisonment; it is a fine.

One could argue that it would be correct in principle to fine the people within the corporation who were responsible for the price-fixing, but what would be the point? The corporation would just adjust their salaries and bonuses to cover it. The corporation's going to pay either way. Best remedy against the people is to hope that they lose their jobs if the company decides it doesn't like being associated with criminal behaviour. Don't think that's going to happen at Apple, somehow.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The brave brave Judge

"The brave brave Judge

I bet he wouldn't have said a word if Jobs had been alive....."

WHY?

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Re: re: worldwide revenues

> Fortunately "Apple Earth inc" makes a loss because of the royalty payments it has to make to "Apple Omicron Persei 8"

Taxes are based on profits. I believe fines are based on revenues even when there are no profits.

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Re: "the decisions are made by human beings ... are they going to see any time for fraud?"

There's another issue, too. Corporations are multiple people. What if the completely-innocent actions of multiple people result in a gestalt-like violation. In this case, the violation is worse than the sum of the individual actions that caused it, yet no one person is aware of the whole, probably not even the board or CEO (too micro). So who gets the blame in this instance if no one action was bad but taken unknowingly as a whole it is?

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Anonymous Coward

Apple and their lawyers,,,

Lost the ebook case

Dropped the app store name case

Are being dragged back to court over bounce-back.

Not the best week for them.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Apple and their lawyers,,,

...yet mine seems to get better and better.

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Apple's lawyers best week ever

It does not matter if they win or lose as long as they are getting paid. Perhaps one decade, Apple's investors will work out where the money is going.

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Rotten Apple

<eom>

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Devil

Article title

Outstanding. Easily the most linkbaitiest linkbait I've seen in a long time.

Trebles all round!

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jai
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Re: Article title

Is it not also libellous? Did the judge actually call out Steve Jobs personally as being a criminal?

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Re: Article title

And how exactly do you libel the dead?

Take your time

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Article title

And how exactly do you libel the dead?

If they refuse to stay dead?

I've said this before, I like their products but this sort of crap has to stop - it makes them a risk in business terms. The prices in iTunes are too elevated as well - I've decamped to Amazon to buy records, and have started using Spotify more.

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"Did the judge actually call out Steve Jobs personally as being a criminal?"

Near enough, yes:

"After carefully weighing the evidence, the court agreed with the Justice Department and 33 state attorneys general that executives at the highest levels of Apple orchestrated a conspiracy with five major publishers to raise e-book prices," the assistant attorney general in charge of the DoJ’s antitrust division, Bill Baer, said.

Even if Jobs were alive, the only way he could fight the accusation would be for Apple to claim that they went ahead and formed major policy without consulting him. Even they would be hard pushed to do that with a straight face.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: decamped to Amazon to buy records

Anonymous Grandad! Put those records on your gramaphone, do you?!!

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jai
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@Squander Two Re: "Did the judge actually call out Steve Jobs personally as being a criminal?"

But that's the assistant attorney general in charge, Bill Baer, that's saying that. the article headline specifically says it's the judge specifically.

I'm not arguing whether or not Jobs is guilty of attempting price fixing, as the evidence suggests he was, I'm arguing the misreporting of the facts in the headline that suggests the Judge specifically called out a dead person and branded them a criminal.

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jai
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@ David Neil Re: Article title

And how exactly do you libel the dead?

Take your time

I wasn't saying that Jobs was being libeled, I'm saying it is the Judge, whose words are being misquoted in the article headline, but still attributed to the Judge as having said them. Actually, perhaps libel isn't the correct legal term there?

But essentially El Reg is declaring that the judge outright said that Steve Jobs is a criminal.

Whereas, from what i've read elsewhere on this comments page, the judge accused Apple's management team, but did not specify Jobs by name. That's not what the article headline implies. So, wouldn't the judge have recourse to claim that El Reg is defaming her by implying she's the type of person to defame the deceased?

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Re: @ David Neil Article title

Actually it is already a well known fact that Steve Jobs is a crook, he committed perjury in court by swearing in court documents that it was impossible for him to be the father of Lisa Brennan-Jobs. To give you an idea of just how serious a crime perjury is, in England and Wales it carries a maximum sentence of seven years. In the U.K. Jobs would have almost certainly served time for what he did looking at the CPS website he could have expected three years for that stunt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_Brennan-Jobs

Then there is the phone phreaking where he was selling blue boxes. The short of it is that there is absolutely no liable in calling Steve Jobs a crook, because he most emphatically was one. Hardly surprising then that even with huge wealth he would continue to break the law to add to his wealth.

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g e
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$20 Billion damages bond in escrow then

Just cos.

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Trollface

Well Steve Jobs was to blame and he's dead now. I say treat him like Saville and dig him up, burn him then pee on his ashes.

*yes I'm a trolling fandroid

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Devil

Apple Crumble

With such bad Karma, prehaps Steve is destined to be reincarnated as a Korean to work for Samsung?

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Big Brother

"dig him up, burn him then pee on his ashes."

Is there an app for that?

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Anonymous Coward

It's called business and capitalism, Google and Apple aren't confused about this.

Even going back to the 1980s, Commodore killed the competition with some classic Tramiel "Business is war" tactics. Cutting the Vic 20 price so low that Texas Instruments left the home computer business.

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To be fair Texas Instruments marketing department had managed to cripple the 99/4a to the point it was almost unusable so that it wouldn't compete with their minicomputers. THATs what killed their presence in the home computer market, not Comodore.

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Cutting the price to kill Texas Instruments is perfectly fair

Agreeing with Texas Instruments that you will both add $10 to the price of all your games isn't

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'Texas Instruments marketing department had managed to cripple the 99/4a to the point it was almost unusable'

You mean putting faulty processor chips in them which would occasionally cause random reboots when you were trying to type in or run a program? Not really the marketing department was it?

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Stop

No, I mean things like

taking a true 16 bit CPU that effectively kept its registers in memory and giving it only 256 BYTES of fast 16 bit memory to work with. The rest of the 16K of RAM belonged to the graphics chip and had to be accessed via 8 bit IO ports.

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In the eBook market

consumers are still the losers - they're still being shafted

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Joke

Re: In the eBook market

Some people enjoy being shafted by Apple though don't they!

It must have something to do with the rainbow coloured Unicorn horn they use to do said shafting!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: In the eBook market

Complain to your MP then. Ask why a paper book is tax free and a ebook attracts 20% VAT.

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Re: In the eBook market

Really? A Jack Reacher book on Kindle is roughly half the price it is on paper in a bookshop. I don't feel shafted by Amazon.

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Meh

Re: In the eBook market

So they will then, in the interest of fairness, add 20% to paper books!

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Re: In the eBook market

Sorry, to clarify: a paper book is something you pay to own. An eBook is something you license to read, usually only once.

Should a one-off rental fee be of the same magnitude as a lifetime purchase price?

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Trollface

She must obviously be one of those Commie Samsung users, I fully expect Apple to go to the US Supreme Court and have the judge sent to guantanamo bay for being anti-American.

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Um, you know Amazon's an American company, too.

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Wet place in Eqypt

Apple are up to the neck ...

They have lots of money to waste on lawyers for appeals.

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Happy

Re: Wet place in Eqypt

"... lots of money to waste on lawyers"

Funniest of all, they'll have to bring it back into the US and pay taxes on it first.

(Probably. Can't see lawyers settling for funny, dodgy money).

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